Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Bohra spring
Posts: 1302
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#331

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:10 am

Does anyone know what is happening at Fatemi dawat camp why is everything gone quiet

Has PDB decided how they are leaning

Don't let the fire die. The spring revolution need constant oxygen

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#332

Unread post by asad » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:16 am

Sceptical wrote:http://fatemidawat.com/questions/

Interresting !
Well, instead of saying Lanat, SMS camp should supply the same kind of argumentation. I'm not an ambassador of any of both camp, but I'm higly impressed by the dignity SKQ camp is showing.

Qaid Johar bs, all of us konw he is a business man not a priest, has been appointed on the highest rutba of spiritulity after Dai :roll:
This is getting interesting day by day. SMS group has put a blanket ban on reading any material from this website, so if Abdes will not read how are they gonna decide.

Jamali
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#333

Unread post by Jamali » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:29 am

Well thats how they have ruled over the Bohras and thats how they will continue to rule over them. A true leader should be confident of his leadership and be proud of his teachings knowing that if it was Haqq and truth, my followers will not go astray. Sometimes we feel pity for such people but its onto people to seek knowledge and truth when their destiny is concerned. If one wants to live in the dark and not use his God given brain to identify whats right and wrong, especially when its coming from the same leadership who until the last 3 days have been the most loved leaders, says alot about ones ability to think!! Irony of the community is that until 3 days ago, the community had "shaitan, Munafeqeen, Yazeed" etc amongst them (not to forget in their own royal family) and their own leaders and the community could not be able to identify them. If this is the case then you even wonder what is right and what is wrong when the whole community is concerned...Isnt this a sign by Almighty Allah trying to show you the right path that forget all these...I am your supreme Creator..Remember me, everything else is a facade????

Sikander
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 10:58 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#334

Unread post by Sikander » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:48 am

it seems Allah has already sealed heart,mind and brain of abdes, and he is putting more and more curtains on them, so I think 90% will not see truth and will remain sheep and dumb as usual, but I pray to ALLAH to show light of ISLAM and QURAAN to every momeen who is sincere in seeking truth.

Jamali
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#335

Unread post by Jamali » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:00 am

Sikander wrote:it seems Allah has already sealed heart,mind and brain of abdes, and he is putting more and more curtains on them, so I think 90% will not see truth and will remain sheep and dumb as usual, but I pray to ALLAH to show light of ISLAM and QURAAN to every momeen who is sincere in seeking truth.



Almighty Allah is all forgiving and loves his creation. That is why despite all the wrong doings, he still shows them the light. However everyone is responsible for their own "Amal" He has given you a brain to think. This is what distinguishes us from all the other creatures in this world. Think about it for a moment....He has given us a brain, the Holy Quran, The Prophets teachings, The Imams teachings and sacrifices...Do we need anything else to lead ourselves??

phorendude
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:10 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#336

Unread post by phorendude » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:10 am


juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#337

Unread post by juzerali » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:19 am

Sikander wrote:it seems Allah has already sealed heart,mind and brain of abdes, and he is putting more and more curtains on them, so I think 90% will not see truth and will remain sheep and dumb as usual, but I pray to ALLAH to show light of ISLAM and QURAAN to every momeen who is sincere in seeking truth.
Sincere truth, is not the hallmark of our community. (To say the least ;))

Sceptical
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#338

Unread post by Sceptical » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:52 am

All kothar web sites remain silent... that's quite strange. Even no official message/post/mail/sms for Quaid Johar nomination as Mazoon.

Deerseye
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:30 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#339

Unread post by Deerseye » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:59 am

It is being reported that Khojema Bhaisaheb has been given police protection, since he was receiving derogatory mails and messages. Also houses of some of his children have been vandalised. This just proves that muffy camp is showing their true colors and maybe Qutbi camp is one up.

AMAFHH
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:19 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#340

Unread post by AMAFHH » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:06 am

My View point on this Whole Drama is that at present i myself being Neutral ,i have apposed Muffadal since he claimed the Position of Dai 2 years back and for Mazoon there are many points on which he might be the True successor of SMB, but this whole scene is Un Islamic (Not based of the teaching of the Prophet(s.a.w.w) & Ahlulbayt (A.s) the Mufaddal camp has already showed By using cheap language , Cursing and Manipulating the bohris' by fear
I pray to the Almighty Allah(s.w.t) to show us the right Path (Lanallaho ull Qaomiz Zalameen)

Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#341

Unread post by Mazakyo » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:02 am

This is what is probably going to happen. The Qutubis will be able to pull maybe 5% of the community towards them. The rest will remain with the mainstream. It will be difficult for the Qutubis to survive for long without any infrastructure, i.e., no Masjids, markaz, jamat khannas, jamaats, musafirkhanas under them. Eventually (some years from now), they will start coming back to the mainstream fold (after tendering appologies of course). Except for places like Mumbai or Udaipur they may not have the numbers to challenge. Things would have been different if the split had been say 60:40 or even 70:30.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#342

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:15 am

Biradar wrote: Humsafar, yes, the train for Bohras has left the station and also the planet. Thats why most abde's are brain-dead fools, ready to grow junglee beards, become roly-poly polar bears, beat their chest while burning an effigy. However, even though late, is there no hope for the young among us? How about our children or our grandchildren? Don't we want them to grow up knowing their heritage, yet be secular and modern in their outlook? Is SMS someone who seems like he will provide this? I mean, the guy can't string two sentences together without going all red in the face. SKQ may at least be more sensible, whatever his past failings.
I agree with you. Who wouldn't want our children to be Bohras with modern and secular outlook who understand Islamic values and our place as a sect in Islamic history? And there is a faint promise that this might be possible under SKQ, but sadly his gambit has come too late and is too little to sway the fanatic Bohra masses. He doesn't have the wherewithal to carry the day.
SMS of course is a pathetic figure, under him the community is travelling backward to pre-history. Bohras might as well start looking for caves to live in. Really a sad and dismal state of affairs.

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#343

Unread post by juzerali » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:20 am

Humsafar wrote:
Biradar wrote: Humsafar, yes, the train for Bohras has left the station and also the planet. Thats why most abde's are brain-dead fools, ready to grow junglee beards, become roly-poly polar bears, beat their chest while burning an effigy. However, even though late, is there no hope for the young among us? How about our children or our grandchildren? Don't we want them to grow up knowing their heritage, yet be secular and modern in their outlook? Is SMS someone who seems like he will provide this? I mean, the guy can't string two sentences together without going all red in the face. SKQ may at least be more sensible, whatever his past failings.
I agree with you. Who wouldn't want our children to be Bohras with modern and secular outlook who understand Islamic values and our place as a sect in Islamic history? And there is faint promise that this might be possible under SKQ, but sadly his gambit has come too late and is too little to sway the fanatic Bohra masses. He doesn't have the wherewithal to carry the day.
SMS of course is a pathetic figure, under him the community is travelling backward to pre-history. They might as start looking for caves to live in. Really a sad and dismal state of affairs.
Heart breaking for me. I had hoped that there will be some challenge posed to Mufaddali camp. But it seems it was just a faint ripple. I don't want to my children to respect Mufaddal at all. I am forlorn as I have to live with the abdes for the rest of my life.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#344

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:29 am

Only takes a spark to create fire. At the moment I am directing the abdes to the Bombay Mirrior article. Most of them have no idea about the divide. Get them to thinking about the greedy family. Most abde bohra ladies do ghibat on the phone, they discus other people lives, find one and guide her to the site or sites. The rest will go around fast.

white_pigeon
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#345

Unread post by white_pigeon » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:30 am

After pledging support on SKQ website.
People have recieved an email to wait for further instructions.

3,50,000 views on a site in 3 days is a massive number. If they have taken a stand, Im sure they have plans in their own manner to continue what they started off. Its only a matter of time that big influential people could join the SKQ camp. Infrastructure all depends on that how many influential people have joined in, I dont see that an issue at all. Numbers are small so it would be easy to start off and if they are all like-minded and not fanatics, possibly things could be much smoother for a brand new start.

Biradar
Posts: 877
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#346

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:51 pm

juzerali wrote: Heart breaking for me. I had hoped that there will be some challenge posed to Mufaddali camp. But it seems it was just a faint ripple. I don't want to my children to respect Mufaddal at all. I am forlorn as I have to live with the abdes for the rest of my life.
My friend, there is no need to feel forlorn. You are putting yourself in a trap which you have erected yourself. It does not exist, except in your mind. Just decide to leave. You don't have to go to markarz or masjid for every little thing. Your prayers are equally valid if done at home. Do not give control of your life to mullahs and to those around you. Keep it yourself. Also, bohras are, for most part, liberal. Once your friends realize that you come once in a great while and do not wish to talk about religion, they will automatically let you be, but still include you in private events. Those who do not, well, good riddance.

Don't let mullahs rule your life.

white_pigeon
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#347

Unread post by white_pigeon » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:38 pm

Some Statement of Supports are being issued on this Facebook Page relating to SKQ
https://www.facebook.com/FatemiDawat?fref=ts
Quite an interesting read over there.
Reminds me of that fable. Slow and Steady wins the Race. Tortoise stuff I guess.

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#348

Unread post by juzerali » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:23 pm

Biradar wrote:
juzerali wrote: Heart breaking for me. I had hoped that there will be some challenge posed to Mufaddali camp. But it seems it was just a faint ripple. I don't want to my children to respect Mufaddal at all. I am forlorn as I have to live with the abdes for the rest of my life.
My friend, there is no need to feel forlorn. You are putting yourself in a trap which you have erected yourself. It does not exist, except in your mind. Just decide to leave. You don't have to go to markarz or masjid for every little thing. Your prayers are equally valid if done at home. Do not give control of your life to mullahs and to those around you. Keep it yourself. Also, bohras are, for most part, liberal. Once your friends realize that you come once in a great while and do not wish to talk about religion, they will automatically let you be, but still include you in private events. Those who do not, well, good riddance.

Don't let mullahs rule your life.
I understand where you come from. I am not that naive as to believe that SKQ is panacea to all our woes, for all we know he might be even worse. But having been part of Dawoodi Bohra community for this long, I think clergy owes this to us, they need to transfer power back to people. I feel I have a stake in all the luxuries that these titans are able to own and afford. Walking away is an option, a good one at that. But somehow I am not able to let go.

hurr
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#349

Unread post by hurr » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:31 pm

Image

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#350

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:33 pm

juzerali wrote:I think clergy owes this to us, they need to transfer power back to people.
Really, you believe they will do that? Power will never be transfered to you willingly. You'll have to grab it. And you have the power not to pay them, not to listen to them.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#351

Unread post by JC » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:36 pm

Br Hurr,

IT is just like 95% of Karachi's population is with MQM .........!!! :roll: :!: Are they really?? Everybody KNOWS the truth yet nobody can speak or act ......... but a time will come, for sure.......

hurr
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#352

Unread post by hurr » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:04 pm

JC wrote:Br Hurr,

IT is just like 95% of Karachi's population is with MQM .........!!! :roll: :!: Are they really?? Everybody KNOWS the truth yet nobody can speak or act ......... but a time will come, for sure.......
What is MQM?

subcon111
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#353

Unread post by subcon111 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:24 pm

A couple of years back SKQ was in North America. I had attended a maqdam majlis. After bayaan he did dua for tulul umr of 52nd Dai SMB (RA) and also for his Mansoos SMS. Isn't this ikraar that Nass was conferred on SMS? If Nass was already conferred on him 50 yrs back why did SKQ do dua for SMS? Maybe SKQ's team should consider answering this question in the Q & A section on the Fatemi Dawat website.

With regards to the evidence that SKQ has put up that he is the rightful successor to SMB (RA), I am sure they have held back some information to be used at a later stage. As someone pointed out in one of the posts in this forum that this matter is likely to end up in the court of law because the Dai is the trustee of all Dawat Property Trust under which most Dawat properties are held and respective bank accounts. The Fatemi Dawat website has been planned in advance. It is not possible to put something like this together overnight. And it would be silly for SKQ's team not to anticipate and plan for further action beyond what they have just taken.

hurr
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#354

Unread post by hurr » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:28 pm

subcon111 wrote:A couple of years back SKQ was in North America. I had attended a maqdam majlis. After bayaan he did dua for tulul umr of 52nd Dai SMB (RA) and also for his Mansoos SMS. Isn't this ikraar that Nass was conferred on SMS? If Nass was already conferred on him 50 yrs back why did SKQ do dua for SMS? Maybe SKQ's team should consider answering this question in the Q & A section on the Fatemi Dawat website.

With regards to the evidence that SKQ has put up that he is the rightful successor to SMB (RA), I am sure they have held back some information to be used at a later stage. As someone pointed out in one of the posts in this forum that this matter is likely to end up in the court of law because the Dai is the trustee of all Dawat Property Trust under which most Dawat properties are held and respective bank accounts. The Fatemi Dawat website has been planned in advance. It is not possible to put something like this together overnight. And it would be silly for SKQ's team not to anticipate and plan for further action beyond what they have just taken.
Image

subcon111
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#355

Unread post by subcon111 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:35 pm

One of the things that I have noticed about SKQ's campaign for support is that it seems to be aimed towards Bohris who are educated and capable of making informed decision. The Fatemi Dawat website is in English and Arabic. There is now a Facebook page. How are they planning to reach the masses who are not very sophisticated, educated and don't have access to the internet with this information? It seems that the first stage of SKQ's campaign is to gather support from educated Bohris in India and Bohris who are settled in developed countries by making information available on the internet and taking a more liberal approach compared to the SMS camp.

hurr
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#356

Unread post by hurr » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:37 pm

So I have a plan to weaken some hold of Mufaddali camp. Though I am not sure if what I am doing is correct. I am looking for a little guidance. Masters of simpleton abdes derive most of their power from being larger than life, aloof figures. I was wondering what will happen if they become objects of everyday use. Like this meme of Ned stark. How about generating memes out of photographs of Mufaddal, Quaid Joker and circulating them, albeit with carefulness. Anyone who does that will stake his safety. So create few fake twitter/fb accounts. Generate memes from photographs of most revered amongst abdes, the sites hosting these doesn't even require you to register , perfect place to topple the sanctity enjoyed by the masters. When the pics circulate, the masters will lose their unreachable status. Something alike is happening already on youtube where someone is posting ridiculous bayans of Mufaddal.

Better yet, buy some fake SIM cards, register on whatsapp, and forward Mufaddal/Quaid Johar memes to all your contacts ;)
I think this is the only way to neutralize the fanaticism and make this a level playing field.

As informed to me by my relatives, so called "Learned Abdes" are advising their brothers in faith to not circulate pictorially demeaning, or trolling messages of SKQ, lest the other group retaliate with the same, "kitni behurmati thase apna moula ni?" If this war starts only abde masters have something to lose, their larger than life status. Clearly Mufaddali group is afraid of this. We can use this medium which helped topple the government of Egypt, fir ye kis khet ki muli hai? Moreover we can convey our message to abdes in subtlest of manners through these.

faalse_ka_faasla
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:28 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#357

Unread post by faalse_ka_faasla » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:13 pm

Word is being spread that SKQ camp is trying to lure supporters by promising flats and money if people join them.
Is there any truth in this or is it new tactics of Muffaddal camp to defame SKQ.

white_pigeon
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#358

Unread post by white_pigeon » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:18 pm

faalse_ka_faasla wrote:Word is being spread that SKQ camp is trying to lure supporters by promising flats and money if people join them.
Is there any truth in this or is it new tactics of Muffaddal camp to defame SKQ.
Well nothing of that sort has arrived in anyone's email I know of from the website.
Helping the community is not a bad idea to be honest for a brand new start :D :D :D :lol:

subcon111
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#359

Unread post by subcon111 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:24 pm

faalse_ka_faasla wrote:Word is being spread that SKQ camp is trying to lure supporters by promising flats and money if people join them.
Is there any truth in this or is it new tactics of Muffaddal camp to defame SKQ.
I think these are just more of the tactics used by the SMS camp to defame SKQ. I haven't heard of any confirmed reports. If any camp has the financial resources to offer incentives it is the SMS camp. Till now we have seen that the SKQ camp has maintained a dignified approach to the issue.

Yusuf Najmuddin and after him his sons have spearheaded a PR campaign to malign and sideline SKQ with the ultimate goal of controlling the financial resources, income streams and properties of the Daawat trusts. They were threatened by SKQ and his position in the Daawat hierarchy. They have used the Jameas and the students by brainwashing and mentally conditioning them. They have become like robots who respond to a central command. Try talking any sense or logic with them and see how they respond. They are fanatical to the point of being unreasonable.

hurr
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#360

Unread post by hurr » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:38 pm

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