Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
white_pigeon
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#481

Unread post by white_pigeon » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:51 pm

Adam wrote:All the sites have updated the necessary information. Check them out.
They wont update information from rumours, unless Syedna says it himself.

Please tell this forum to update the "Our Mission" about the 53rd Dai.


Or what? Typical language.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#482

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:57 pm

All the sites have updated the necessary information. Check them out.
They wont update information from rumours, unless Syedna says it himself.
Which Syedna?

mohamedshah
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:40 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#483

Unread post by mohamedshah » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:06 pm

How I see the issue about the succession dispute for the 53rd Dai of our Community the Dawoodi Bohra's and why I feel the Mazoom of Sydna Mohamed Burhanuddin (RA), Syedi Khuzeima Qutbudin (TUS) is on the right i.e Haqq.

The succession dispute should be seen from the angle of what is right (Haqq) rather than who is right. This is because non of the contenders are Imam Ali (AS), who we believe was on Haqq ab initio. We (the human race) have been given Aql/Intellect which differentiates us from other creatures created by Allah Subhanahu, including angels, who do not have to make a choice. We are further distinguished as the followers of Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) and his Blessed Progeny and have their examples in various positions they took on issues/challenges of their time. The positions they took differed depending on the time they were in. Example from the actions/position of Panjatan Pak (I wish to believe irrespective of our present religio/ socio/political position - we respect them and have a desire to emulate them to the best of our ability). We all have recited or heard the dua " Innalaha Wa malaikatuhu, yusaluna wa ahlen Nabi, Ya ayuhal lazina wa Salimu huwa taslima" Alahum Saliallah Mohamedin Wa ahle Muhammadin Wabarik Wasalim.

Imam Ali (AS) refuses initially to give Baiyah to Caliph AbuBakr, after death of Maa Fatema tus Zahra (AS) after around 6 months gives the Baiyah, After Caliph Umar died Imam Ali could have accepted the conditions of the Shura council and would have become the 3rd Caliph of the Muslim Empire (we have to distinguish between the Islamic Empire left by the Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) and the faith of Islam which he completed - Islam existed since Adam (AS) time), however Imam Ali (AS) took the principled stand that he will rule the Islamic Empire by the Quran, Sunnah of the Prophet and his own opinion rather than the footsteps of the preceding 2 Caliphs which the Shura demanded. He subsequently after Caliph Uthman's death accepted the Caliphate of the Muslim Empire, when he became both ruler of the Islamic Empire and Spiritual leader (IMAM) of the faithful (Amirul Mumineen). Imam Hassan ibne Ali (AS) accepted the Caliphate of the Islamic Empire and Imamat for the faithful, however he made peace (sulha) with Emir Muawiya and abdicated as Caliph. After the death of Imam Hassan Ibne Ali (AS), during the Caliphate of Muawiya Imam Hussein ibne Ali (AS) became the Imam of the time for the faithful, he however did not immediately raise the sword for the 10 years, he only did it once in contravention of the agreement Emir Muawiya appoint his son to the position of Caliph leading to the tragic events of Kerbala.

Some of the positions/actions taken may appear contradictory both by the same person at different times and person to another person among the Panjatan. However, each position taken was a lesson to us the faithful and taken to be the best action in that time/situation. I would say no buts and ifs, the Panjatan Pak made the right decision in their contexts. We should also note that right from Imam Ali (AS), Imam Hassan (AS) and Imam Hussein (AS), none of them in their disputes with the powers that had USURPED over the Islamic Caliphate, did not use foul language, vulgar words, spoken or written against their protagonist, They maintained dignity and decorum ALWAYS, for their opponents and themselves. In fact Umme Kulthum Binte Ali (RA) was married to Caliph Umar, Mohamed Ibne Abubakr was a leading Shia of Imam Ali (AS) and during his Caliphate his Emir in Misr (Egypt), through his (Mohamed Ibne Abu Bakr) daughter he (Caliph Abu Bakr) also becomes the great great grand father of Imam Jaffar us Saddik (AS). If the Panjatan did not have such venom in their lives , why do we have?

Coming back to the issue at hand we are at cross-roads in life, we have to use our intellect to come to our decision on who to follow as our Dai es Zamaan or the claimants (Syedna Qutbuddin and Shahzade Muffadal can go for arbitration to either King Abdullah of Jordan or Kind Mohamed V of Morrocco who are both direct descendants (progeny) of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) through Imam Hassan ibne Ali (AS) - in the around 1400 years of Islamic history none of Imam Hassan (AS) descendants have claimed to be Imams of the faithful, but they remain Ahle Mohamed. As Shia's we believe the Prophet left us his progeny to guide us, we can go to them for guidance as they are also Malek's/Kings of Countries, Sunni in outward faith hence have no vested interests in our dispute . As Shia's we have to respect all the descendants of the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). If we find it below our dignity to do so follow my logical deductive argument and see if you reach the same conclusion.

1) Shahzad Muffadal's camp is using foul language, vulgar language towards Syedna Qutbuddin, this is not the sirat we expect from a leader who claims to walk on the Naksh Kadam of Panjatan. Including foul references to the parentage, ironically this includes our revered 51st Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin (RA), to which they are oblivious to. Syedna Qutbuddin on the other hand has respected the dignity of his opponents, thereby enhancing his own.
2) We live in a financially and technologically sophisticated world, concepts like Usury need to be re-defined, we have to take advantage of of recent developments in finance including those related to Islamic Finance, which we as a community need to embrace wholeheartedly with our brothers who follow Islam. Syedna Qutbudin's vision points to this direction. I quote "Our community should have a dynamic business outlook in this information age, a cutting-edge approach that leads us to prosperity in today’s fast-moving world. Our business vitality should not be lost due to lack of funding. It should not be undercut because of restrictions and directives that have no true basis in Shariat. Our mawali have said that Shariat is ‘samhaa’ and accommodating, not harsh or rigid. While keeping within Shariat laws at all times, mumineen should be encouraged to take advantage of modern-day financial institutions. They should strive to learn new technologies and practices, and advance in business acumen and reach."
3) He is more respectful and re-conciliatory and recognizes that we do not live in an island, we have to cohabit this planet with others
4) He sends positive vibes on education and economic empowerment including that of females - which is a prerequisite in the global context we live in. He will walk this path because the signal is his daughters education levels and working in the real world.
5) He appears to be more financially accountable in his past positions of trust in Dawat, has avoided the excesses of Shahzada Muffadal.
6) He served Syedna Mohamed Burhanuddin (RA) and kept his trust (the Kaangi NASS) for nearly 50 years, even when 2 years ago it was to his detriment to his personal interest to keep this trust, when Shahzada Muffadal's camp tried to usurp the nass for himself. He showed us his humility and patience by being humiliated time and again by Shahzada Muffadal's camp, and having to sit below him and recite his praises, while knowing he was the rightful Saheb ul NASS, least his trust is broken. But after the sad demise of Syedna Mohamed Burhanuddin (RA), he had a duty to reveal the NASS done on him and take the position of the 53rd Dai el Mutlaq.

I conclude that Syedi Khuzaima Qutbuddin (TUS) is more worthy of being our dai. and will address to him as Syedna Qutbuddn (TUS)


Some people might be wondering about myself so let me tell you.
I am an Abde Syedna, serving in one of the business organisations related to the dawat in a Senior position and appointed after the stroke of Syedna Mohamed Burhanuddin by Shahzada Muffadal in 2012 after completing my MBA from a Global top 20 University and returning back home form the west after an absence of over 5 years. Mohamed is my first name, I am of mixed blood indian and Arab, through my maternal grandmother a Hashimite Arab and a descendant of the Prophet (PBUH)

ammar
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#484

Unread post by ammar » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:16 pm

You are welcome here mohdshah.

Very nice article you have pondered and shared with us.

seeker110
Posts: 1727
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#485

Unread post by seeker110 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:19 pm

Br Mohammed, you seem to be better educated then both of these old guys. The post is still open. I vote for you to be the next Dai. Please keep a small name instead of a paragraph worth of name. If we have better educated person among us, it would be foolish to seek an idiot.

seriousnessisamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#486

Unread post by seriousnessisamess » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:21 pm

Welcome Mr.Mohammed.
Thanks for such an article ,I am impressed with whatever you had share .

ammar
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#487

Unread post by ammar » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:24 pm

Quick question to Bhai Mohdshah..how did u came to know abt this site?

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#488

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:49 pm

br. mohamedshah

What role does the Imam-uz-zamaan have to play over here? I am assuming he exists. Or am I wrong?

Bohra spring
Posts: 1350
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#489

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:34 pm

SMS camp was it important on 2 occasions , ie hospital and public gathering, when allegedly the 52nd did Nass that the Mazzon and Mukasir facilitated and in clear audible process , the announcement be done rather than by a non position holding son and son in law .

If M&M were irrelevant in such occasions what was their purpose in dawat. Why we're the zadas running the show through out ? A zada holds no official permanent position in dawat apart adhoc appointments

Why was this intricate detail in a sophisticated protocol led community over looked ?

What a careless mistake that time and history will not question that the most important trigger of transition was bungled up.

white_pigeon
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#490

Unread post by white_pigeon » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:07 pm

mohamedshah wrote:How I see the issue about the succession dispute for the 53rd Dai of our Community the Dawoodi Bohra's and why I feel the Mazoom of Sydna Mohamed Burhanuddin (RA), Syedi Khuzeima Qutbudin (TUS) is on the right i.e Haqq.


Some people might be wondering about myself so let me tell you.
I am an Abde Syedna, serving in one of the business organisations related to the dawat in a Senior position and appointed after the stroke of Syedna Mohamed Burhanuddin by Shahzada Muffadal in 2012 after completing my MBA from a Global top 20 University and returning back home form the west after an absence of over 5 years. Mohamed is my first name, I am of mixed blood indian and Arab, through my maternal grandmother a Hashimite Arab and a descendant of the Prophet (PBUH)
There is no bigger power than the power of people.
Mere goons would be helpless if people do a massive revolt.
Can you imagine the people who turned up at the funeral, the same number staging a revolution in protest. Everything can be achieved through the power of people.

trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#491

Unread post by trvoice » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:09 pm

@Bohra spring,
Time and time again in the past SMS gang has barred SKQ and his family from being part of the dawat because of known fears. Every dirty tactics has been used to humiliate and keep mazoon away from being an active position holder in dawat, what most "bohra" do not know or understand is that the conflict we are seeing today has been planned and positioned for the past 30 years by YN. I dont see anything out of ordinary here and I pretty much know where this is going to end.
If we take this on the face value and if we assume mazoon is a bad person. Hell there have been worst people in dawat in these past 50 years.
we have had persons who have pointed gun at syedna" but those people were fed well and their childrens are kept well fed and financially settled. whenever mazoon visited cairo, sms were circulated to not to go to masjid and pray behind him. Tons of things with recent event being malik ashtar openly challenging mazoon in bombay if he could dare come near syedna.
All these years (50) mazoon has been patient, humble and kept his cool, if the post is truely his I wish more power to him and may he righteously hold his post with all the glory.

mufaddal_saifuddin
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:57 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#492

Unread post by mufaddal_saifuddin » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:38 pm

Adam wrote:
They wont update information from rumours, unless Syedna says it himself.
Bro Adam, did you just commit a sin against dai? :shock: This sentence implies that if Syedna wants to spread rumour then the sites will be updated :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: So much for grammar nazism YOLO!!!

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#493

Unread post by Adam » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:56 pm

Stop twisting words.
If Syedna says it himself, it's not a rumour now is it?


mufaddal_saifuddin
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:57 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#494

Unread post by mufaddal_saifuddin » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:12 pm

Adam wrote:Stop twisting words.
If Syedna says it himself, it's not a rumour now is it?

Chillax bro! No need to take offence. I was just pointing out a grammatical error in your sentence. Committing such errors while talking about Da'i is also a sin. I just wanted you to know. About if it is a rumor or not if Syedna says it, who knows for sure? I have heard rumors about that Nass thingy, not sure.

mufaddal_saifuddin
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:57 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#495

Unread post by mufaddal_saifuddin » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:26 pm

zico_m87 wrote:New video on Youtube by Fatemi Dawat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F2t2KB0euA
That my friend, is actually sweet. :|

Biradar
Posts: 937
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#496

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:14 pm

Adam is a shill, a lackey of the administration, a lap dog, a brain-dead zombie who will do all sorts of contortions and mental gymnastics to justify whatever nonsense his Dear Leader says or does. One should not take him too seriously, but pity his poor addled brain, and pray for a speedy recovery. He can talk about 1, 2, 3 all day, and even convince some other brain-dead abdes that he makes sense, but, in reality, he is just full of hot air, breaking wind with his mouth.

SMS has the advantage that he controls all the dawaat properties, the masjids, the mazaars, the Jamea (one assumes), and the amalats. So, it is unlikely that Bohras who are comfortably off in these institutions and places will leave him. One can say, without exaggeration, that if Yazid were to get control of these things, Bohras would lovingly adore him, and lap dogs like Adam would be busy studying obscure scriptures, coming up with strange explanations, all to justify Yazid's excesses. Lets leave the poor fellow alone.

Another advantage that SMS has is that Bohras in general are a semi-literate lot. They know almost nothing about their own history and heritage, and have been made to believe in absurd stories, killing any critical thinking skills they may have once possessed. Systematically, the intellectuals in the community have been suppressed. Bohras have no time to examine any issues on their own, being busy attending this-and-that functions, beating their chest, jerking out some tears and then enjoying lavish meals. Who has the time for reflection or study? Bohras will follow the one who displays the most pomp and wealth. Haqq and truth be dammed.

So, I do not think the SKQ will have a sizable following. It is also likely that the official Reformist position will be to follow SMS. Even if he has cursed them, done baraat on them, beaten them, like kicked pets they will go back for more. They will be too afraid also of loosing control of properties and access to mazaars, masjids in Udaipur to oppose SMS, despite all the private misgivings they may have about his Taliban like policies.

Sadly, we live in a world where truth plays second fiddle to power.

white_pigeon
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#497

Unread post by white_pigeon » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:19 pm

Latest Article from Mumbai Mirror exposing SMB camp and its activities.

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mumbai/cove ... 266169.cms

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#498

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:43 pm

white_pigeon wrote:Latest Article from Mumbai Mirror exposing SMB camp and its activities.http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mumbai/cove ... 266169.cms
Proof of Muffy's high frustration levels, GUILT and high handedness :-

"There is a siege within the community on those who believe the succession was pronounced on Khuzaima Qutbuddin," said a source on the condition of anonymity, emphasising that the mere mention of a name would invite the wrath of the "gangs of Bohra youth masquerading as Burhani Guards."

Many people told this writer how Khuzaima Qutbuddin himself was not spared this ordeal. There is reportedly a picket of 35-40 people permanently stationed by Mufaddal Saifuddin's group outside Khuzaima Qutbuddin's residence in Thane to intimidate family members and visitors. "Some of those assembled outside are drunk and definitely not Dawoodi Bohra. If this is what one religious group can do to its close relatives, what hope is there for the average community member?" asked a member.

The terror is being unleashed not just across Mumbai but across the world. There are email complaints pouring in from even the US. There are also reports that the group belonging to Mufaddal Saifuddin has started calling in reinforcements from outside the city so it would be relatively emotionless in carrying out the purge.

"The group belonging to Mufaddal Saifuddin dispatched a large group from Pune to wreak havoc on the small group of the faithful in Mumbai. The writing on the wall is clear: submit or be excommunicated with threat to our life and property," said a community member.

"Some community members have already started experiencing a form of social boycott in their housing societies in Mazgaon and Marol. Neighbours have stopped talking to them and it is only a matter of days when their businesses are boycotted," related another.

Over the last two days, a number of senior community members perceived to be 'close' to Khuzaima Qutbuddin were 'summoned' by the ruling clergy under the ruse of presenting their condolence to Mufaddal Saifuddin but with the latent objective to be interrogated. They were quizzed about the kind of devotion they had for Khuzaima Qutbuddin, asked to commit they would have nothing to do with him and, worse, were told to pronounce the curse of Allah (laanat) on him.

"I am emotionally shattered beyond words and for some time I thought it would have been better to die than to pronounce a curse on a saint," said one who attended the humiliation on Thursday. "This is not what we expect of people claiming to profess the 'right' religion. There is a subtle warning that should we ever go back to Khuzaima Qutbuddin no mercy would be shown to us. This is clearly not what we expect in a free, secular and democratic India and are only waiting for the day when this matter is investigated by human rights agencies."

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#499

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:30 pm

DOES MUFFY HAS AN ANSWER TO THIS :-

I write with the conviction that I am with Truth, that I am the 53rd Da’i. If there is anyone who wishes to put forward a different claim, I am ready to debate with him and conduct with him a ‘mubahala’ [standing in front of God and beseeching God to send his wrath on the one who is wrong]. “And God is our witness to all we say” (Quran Yusuf 66, Qasas 28).

http://fatemidawat.com/shahzadas/

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#500

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:36 pm

WHY IS MUFFY SCARED TO TALK WITH SKQ :-

Abdeali denied receiving any official communication on the baraat (social boycott). “My father has stated his official position to Mufaddal bhaisaheb, that he does not recognise him as Dai. He even said that if he ensures his safety and security, they can sit and talk but there was no response.”

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-n ... ly-1955568

Bohra spring
Posts: 1350
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#501

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:51 pm

Biradar I pray you are wrong..it will be a tragedy if SKQ does not succeed.

When we had given up hope of any meaningful revolt, SKQ has landed as a God send, his vision etc is far much better than SMS. We cannot slip in supporting him because we don't have plan B. SKQ is the best option we have , better than the PDB. Please dont misunderstand my comment, PDB has fought valiantly for 50 years and they deserve credit , but with the recent development SKQ just brings the extra firepower of spiritual and knowledge credibility that they lacked in attracting the masses. Combining these 2 assets the PDB determination and grass root capability and ideological capacity of SKQ makes the reform more achievable.

The reform movement can turn the table from being defensive all along to expansion and allow new converts from abde. It is political military style revolution.

Please brothers and sisters who want any luck in reforming our community, do not ignore SKQ or let the guard down in resisting SMS. Dont dose ..time is essence How else can I convince reformist and intelligent abdes that the Bohra future is at cross roads. You can control your destiny.

If SKQ fails we will loose tens of years to regroup and stand-up.

Mkenya
Posts: 471
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#502

Unread post by Mkenya » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:28 pm

Since the passing of Burhanuddin Saheb much has been written, discussed and debated. A very emotional funeral showing tens of thousands of grieving Bohras took place. From what I saw on the videos I must say Kothar and its Abdes did a wonderful job. Kothar has captured the outpouring of emotion to its total advantage. Qutbuddin Saheb has come on the stage a little too late. A Hindi saying: “Jiski Lathi Uski Bhens” sums it up so succinctly. All that is left is for the two Dais to duke it out. The bestowing of Nass, its timing, authencity and so on is just a lot of smoke and mirror. A historical fact worth mentioning is during the Second World war when Hitler’s army marched into Paris the Parisienne waved the Swastika. Fast forward to later when the Allied forces marched into Paris the Parisienne waved the French flag. Either way the Parisienne knew they will be ‘screwed’. And such is the fate of Bohras.

Looking back in history from Saifuddin Saheb’s reign to the present times it is evident that Bohras have been and continue to be hoodwinked and robbed. Over the years “Wahiyat” claims of divinity, conduit to Allah, mojizas, and many other pretexts have been swallowed by Bohras en masse. Bohras proudly proclaim such devotion, blind faith, aquida and, most of all, that Dais will take them to heaven. Death is an unknown domain, humans know it as its final destination and are rightfully afraid. The repeated wielding of this fright to Bohras is surrepticiously channeled by Kothar to its own advantage.

Islam theoretically is a very simple religion to follow and practice. It is the practitioners who have hijacked it for their ulterior motives. Firkabazi, schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, etc.) race, ethnicity, attire and a multitude of other diffrences have been channeled by duplicitious purveyors of Islam to their advantage. Islam as prescribed has metamorphosised into an institution devoid of any of its original tenets. Bohra Dais, in particular, as one of the perpritators, have honed our sect into a Hauze-Kauthar on earth. Bohras have and continue to part with money under duress or at times, willingly, to attain their Nirvana. Masjids and jamaat halls the world over fill to overcapacity with Bohras who come to listen to utter drivel, fake sobbing and crying, choregraphed Matam and so on. Kothar has captured a befitting raison-d-etre for Bohras to attend such gatherings by hosting jamans. A hi-tech top-down administrative structure has been put in place to register and monitor all Bohras and their family members, their monetory contributions, attendance at functions, etc.

The internet traffic must have reached an unprecendet volume among Bohras on the expiry of Burhanuddin Saheb and later its aftermath. The fact that Qutbuddin Saheb came out of the shadows to claim Daiship has set the Bohras abuzz with all sorts of speculations. Sublimely I strongly sense that many Abdes wish a change would take place.

The question is where is the Din in all this. Kothar has imbedded in the minds of Abdes that they need the Dai as their saviour and the Abdes have swallowed this hook, line and sinker! Bohras are destined to wallow in this myth whatever may come or whoever the Dai is. In the meantime the Dai and all under him down to the lowliest Mulla and the goons will dispossess you of your money.

Imam Tayab is in occult seclusion, we are told. In these dark days of Bohra history I would think he would in his 'gaiby' ways appoint a Dai and save the community from distress.

Oh, another thing. From what I have read from this forum and other sources the Zadas, Zadis, their children and progeny have graduated from the best universities and places of highre learning. I know that most have established businesses and residences in Western Europe, North America and the Far East. By all accounts they must be self-sufficient. So why do they continue to don the 'bagla' attire and coerce people.

zinger
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#503

Unread post by zinger » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:49 am

mohamedshah wrote:How I see the issue about the succession dispute for the 53rd Dai of our Community the Dawoodi Bohra's and why I feel the Mazoom of Sydna Mohamed Burhanuddin (RA), Syedi Khuzeima Qutbudin (TUS) is on the right i.e Haqq.

The succession dispute should be seen from the angle of what is right (Haqq) rather than who is right. This is because non of the contenders are Imam Ali (AS), who we believe was on Haqq ab initio. We (the human race) have been given Aql/Intellect which differentiates us from other creatures created by Allah Subhanahu, including angels, who do not have to make a choice. We are further distinguished as the followers of Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) and his Blessed Progeny and have their examples in various positions they took on issues/challenges of their time. The positions they took differed depending on the time they were in. Example from the actions/position of Panjatan Pak (I wish to believe irrespective of our present religio/ socio/political position - we respect them and have a desire to emulate them to the best of our ability). We all have recited or heard the dua " Innalaha Wa malaikatuhu, yusaluna wa ahlen Nabi, Ya ayuhal lazina wa Salimu huwa taslima" Alahum Saliallah Mohamedin Wa ahle Muhammadin Wabarik Wasalim.

Imam Ali (AS) refuses initially to give Baiyah to Caliph AbuBakr, after death of Maa Fatema tus Zahra (AS) after around 6 months gives the Baiyah, After Caliph Umar died Imam Ali could have accepted the conditions of the Shura council and would have become the 3rd Caliph of the Muslim Empire (we have to distinguish between the Islamic Empire left by the Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) and the faith of Islam which he completed - Islam existed since Adam (AS) time), however Imam Ali (AS) took the principled stand that he will rule the Islamic Empire by the Quran, Sunnah of the Prophet and his own opinion rather than the footsteps of the preceding 2 Caliphs which the Shura demanded. He subsequently after Caliph Uthman's death accepted the Caliphate of the Muslim Empire, when he became both ruler of the Islamic Empire and Spiritual leader (IMAM) of the faithful (Amirul Mumineen). Imam Hassan ibne Ali (AS) accepted the Caliphate of the Islamic Empire and Imamat for the faithful, however he made peace (sulha) with Emir Muawiya and abdicated as Caliph. After the death of Imam Hassan Ibne Ali (AS), during the Caliphate of Muawiya Imam Hussein ibne Ali (AS) became the Imam of the time for the faithful, he however did not immediately raise the sword for the 10 years, he only did it once in contravention of the agreement Emir Muawiya appoint his son to the position of Caliph leading to the tragic events of Kerbala.

Some of the positions/actions taken may appear contradictory both by the same person at different times and person to another person among the Panjatan. However, each position taken was a lesson to us the faithful and taken to be the best action in that time/situation. I would say no buts and ifs, the Panjatan Pak made the right decision in their contexts. We should also note that right from Imam Ali (AS), Imam Hassan (AS) and Imam Hussein (AS), none of them in their disputes with the powers that had USURPED over the Islamic Caliphate, did not use foul language, vulgar words, spoken or written against their protagonist, They maintained dignity and decorum ALWAYS, for their opponents and themselves. In fact Umme Kulthum Binte Ali (RA) was married to Caliph Umar, Mohamed Ibne Abubakr was a leading Shia of Imam Ali (AS) and during his Caliphate his Emir in Misr (Egypt), through his (Mohamed Ibne Abu Bakr) daughter he (Caliph Abu Bakr) also becomes the great great grand father of Imam Jaffar us Saddik (AS). If the Panjatan did not have such venom in their lives , why do we have?

Coming back to the issue at hand we are at cross-roads in life, we have to use our intellect to come to our decision on who to follow as our Dai es Zamaan or the claimants (Syedna Qutbuddin and Shahzade Muffadal can go for arbitration to either King Abdullah of Jordan or Kind Mohamed V of Morrocco who are both direct descendants (progeny) of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) through Imam Hassan ibne Ali (AS) - in the around 1400 years of Islamic history none of Imam Hassan (AS) descendants have claimed to be Imams of the faithful, but they remain Ahle Mohamed. As Shia's we believe the Prophet left us his progeny to guide us, we can go to them for guidance as they are also Malek's/Kings of Countries, Sunni in outward faith hence have no vested interests in our dispute . As Shia's we have to respect all the descendants of the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). If we find it below our dignity to do so follow my logical deductive argument and see if you reach the same conclusion.

1) Shahzad Muffadal's camp is using foul language, vulgar language towards Syedna Qutbuddin, this is not the sirat we expect from a leader who claims to walk on the Naksh Kadam of Panjatan. Including foul references to the parentage, ironically this includes our revered 51st Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin (RA), to which they are oblivious to. Syedna Qutbuddin on the other hand has respected the dignity of his opponents, thereby enhancing his own.
2) We live in a financially and technologically sophisticated world, concepts like Usury need to be re-defined, we have to take advantage of of recent developments in finance including those related to Islamic Finance, which we as a community need to embrace wholeheartedly with our brothers who follow Islam. Syedna Qutbudin's vision points to this direction. I quote "Our community should have a dynamic business outlook in this information age, a cutting-edge approach that leads us to prosperity in today’s fast-moving world. Our business vitality should not be lost due to lack of funding. It should not be undercut because of restrictions and directives that have no true basis in Shariat. Our mawali have said that Shariat is ‘samhaa’ and accommodating, not harsh or rigid. While keeping within Shariat laws at all times, mumineen should be encouraged to take advantage of modern-day financial institutions. They should strive to learn new technologies and practices, and advance in business acumen and reach."
3) He is more respectful and re-conciliatory and recognizes that we do not live in an island, we have to cohabit this planet with others
4) He sends positive vibes on education and economic empowerment including that of females - which is a prerequisite in the global context we live in. He will walk this path because the signal is his daughters education levels and working in the real world.
5) He appears to be more financially accountable in his past positions of trust in Dawat, has avoided the excesses of Shahzada Muffadal.
6) He served Syedna Mohamed Burhanuddin (RA) and kept his trust (the Kaangi NASS) for nearly 50 years, even when 2 years ago it was to his detriment to his personal interest to keep this trust, when Shahzada Muffadal's camp tried to usurp the nass for himself. He showed us his humility and patience by being humiliated time and again by Shahzada Muffadal's camp, and having to sit below him and recite his praises, while knowing he was the rightful Saheb ul NASS, least his trust is broken. But after the sad demise of Syedna Mohamed Burhanuddin (RA), he had a duty to reveal the NASS done on him and take the position of the 53rd Dai el Mutlaq.

I conclude that Syedi Khuzaima Qutbuddin (TUS) is more worthy of being our dai. and will address to him as Syedna Qutbuddn (TUS)


Some people might be wondering about myself so let me tell you.
I am an Abde Syedna, serving in one of the business organisations related to the dawat in a Senior position and appointed after the stroke of Syedna Mohamed Burhanuddin by Shahzada Muffadal in 2012 after completing my MBA from a Global top 20 University and returning back home form the west after an absence of over 5 years. Mohamed is my first name, I am of mixed blood indian and Arab, through my maternal grandmother a Hashimite Arab and a descendant of the Prophet (PBUH)
Hi Mohamed bhai, since you have already divulged so much about yourself, would you care to tell us your full name?

With all the information that you have already shared, it is doubtless, extremely easy for the kothar to identify who you are right?
So why shy away from revealing everything?

my reason for asking you this is 2:
1. I dont think you are who you claim you are. i think this all just an illusion that you have created
OR
2. I think you are someone else and are trying to frame the real Mohamed, about whom you have reveled so much already

i am more likely to veer towards 2. i think you have some issues with the real Mohamed and are trying to jeopardize his life here.

infact, now if you reveal everything, then you are going to only create more problems for him

sorry champ, but i think you are a RAT trying to get someone in trouble :evil:

Bohra_by_birth
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:16 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#504

Unread post by Bohra_by_birth » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:09 am

I am new to this forum. I am a Dawoodi Bohra woman and my family has decided to follow SMS. In my own little world I am a rebel, one who retaliates. My mother especially has a problem with my thought procedure. I respect and love her too much to come out of my cocoon. God give me more strength.
My major problems with DBs are 1. They never take the name of Allah. They use the word 'Khuda' sometimes but never Allah. 2. Maatam is done to please the Dai and not because of the love of Hussain. 3. F.G.M
4. The compulsory dress code anywhere and everywhere. 5. The Dais are accessible to only the super rich. The others may die in the stampede.
Will SKQ abolish these practices?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#505

Unread post by humanbeing » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:22 am

zinger wrote:2. I think you are someone else and are trying to frame the real Mohamed, about whom you have reveled so much already

i am more likely to veer towards 2. i think you have some issues with the real Mohamed and are trying to jeopardize his life here.

infact, now if you reveal everything, then you are going to only create more problems for him
@Zinger
I think it is better that mohamedshah must not reveal any identity details. In fact it is better off like that for every member to remain anonymous for 2 good reasons : Self protection & Avoid being a troublemaker for others.
However, mohamedshah post is balanced and very interesting.
Pehchaan-mein-kya-rakha-hai-BHAVNAAO-ko samjho

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#506

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:29 am

zinger wrote: 2. I think you are someone else and are trying to frame the real Mohamed, about whom you have reveled so much already
I think you are not a Dawoodi Bohra. You are someone else and just behaving like a moron on purpose. You want to frame Dawoodi Bohras as idiots!

zinger
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#507

Unread post by zinger » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:32 am

humanbeing wrote:
zinger wrote:2. I think you are someone else and are trying to frame the real Mohamed, about whom you have reveled so much already

i am more likely to veer towards 2. i think you have some issues with the real Mohamed and are trying to jeopardize his life here.

infact, now if you reveal everything, then you are going to only create more problems for him
@Zinger
I think it is better that mohamedshah must not reveal any identity details. In fact it is better off like that for every member to remain anonymous for 2 good reasons : Self protection & Avoid being a troublemaker for others.
However, mohamedshah post is balanced and very interesting.
Pehchaan-mein-kya-rakha-hai-BHAVNAAO-ko samjho
HB, i REALLY think this is an attempt to sabotage someones career.

you tell me, who in his right mind would reveal so much information about themselves and yet claim to take a stand that is different from the establishment?

Bro, i only have to give my first name and my jamat name and my vague profession and they will track me.

this guy here has revealed close to 80% of his identity (when the kothar is smart to figure out who he could be even if he revealed 30%) so to me, it stinks clearly to high hell

i just hope that the real mohamed doesnt get into trouble.

i know the kothar guys are monitoring this, so my request to them is not jump to the obvious conclusions. someone here is out to get this poor man

zinger
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#508

Unread post by zinger » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:33 am

AgnosticTheist wrote:
zinger wrote: 2. I think you are someone else and are trying to frame the real Mohamed, about whom you have reveled so much already
I think you are not a Dawoodi Bohra. You are someone else and just behaving like a moron on purpose. You want to frame Dawoodi Bohras as idiots!
why should you care champ? and i why should i frame anyone? there are enough people like u doing it already!!!!

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#509

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:49 am

zinger wrote:
AgnosticTheist wrote: I think you are not a Dawoodi Bohra. You are someone else and just behaving like a moron on purpose. You want to frame Dawoodi Bohras as idiots!
why should you care champ? and i why should i frame anyone? there are enough people like u doing it already!!!!
Brother, because you are caring for mohdshah :). Hence I am caring for a broader community.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#510

Unread post by humanbeing » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:52 am

@Zinger

Your fears are possibly true.

However deeply involved jamat members have their own pull and power not to be sabotaged, so even if such a person is being framed, the real “slim-shady” will stand up and clarify with his kothar brethren of these attempts. There are some famous sayings we can refer to
Feather of same kinds flock together
Chor ka bhai ghanti chor