Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Maqbool
Posts: 848
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#511

Unread post by Maqbool » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:26 am

zinger
you are best to divert the topic when it hits to the point.

Instead of discussing identity pleas come to the point and reply to the points Mohamed has raised. If the kothar is capable to find out from the 80% of his identity given here, they are capable to find out of fack or true.

zinger
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#512

Unread post by zinger » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:42 am

Maqbool bhai, i dont know mohamaedhah form Adam, so i couldnt care less what happens to him.

i was just trying to point out that someone is using this site for their own malicious intent.

diverting the topic isnt and never was my agenda.

back to the topic.

over to you

seriousnessisamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#513

Unread post by seriousnessisamess » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:05 am

Heard the News..
Mazoon Moula is no more.????
Can anyone verify it?

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#514

Unread post by voice » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:14 am

Deerseye wrote:All these are rumours, maybe propagated by Muffy Camp, Khojema bhaisaheb is fit and fine. I have this news from reliable source.
The above quote answers to your query.

seriousnessisamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#515

Unread post by seriousnessisamess » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:21 am

it was a rumour..Someone is spreading news he is in hospital and all.

haidar
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#516

Unread post by haidar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:55 am

PDBG toh 52nd dai ko nahin mantle aur dhongi baba khuzema ki dawat dekhe to wo 52nd dai ko represent kar rahi heee than I don't understant why pdbg is encouraging khuzem uncle pdbg to phatay me tang dal rahi hai tum agar 52nd dai ko MAn Tay nahin ho to why u r wasting time

haidar
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#517

Unread post by haidar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:02 am

I thing this khuema topic should be closed by pdbg group because they don't believe in52nd than they HD no right to talk on 53rd aliasghar

mohamedshah
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:40 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#518

Unread post by mohamedshah » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:04 am

To answer a few questions as about myself

Mohamed is is my first name and I am not trying to impersonate anyone to get that person into trouble. I am also not playing Cleudo or Who's done it? to reveal identity?, nor subscribe to conspiracy theories. My objective is just to shed light in the debate and propose a framework to make a choice - what i used to decide for myself. Everyone is free to use whatever basis they wish to make their choice. I do not fear that my identity will be revealed as my opinion is based on conviction and not continence. I also had a word about my concerns last evening with the junior Amil of my City, we had a nice discussion (unexpectedly he has also been thinking hard on this issue) , we had dinner, shock hands, smiled and parted ways as usual. Nothing has happened to this time to me, only I have been invited to my family home for Friday lunch after Juma prayers and told one of my uncle's and my cousin will also be joining us regarding the discussion on similar lines I had on this forum, with my cousin 2 days ago, and with the Junior Amil of my City.

I had come across this website initially around 2007,when my uncle died around that time a write up was done on him and his contribution in the reform movement and someone sent me a link, i visited the site form time to time without registering or commenting , As at that time and even today I believe not superficially but fundamentally in the Misaq I gave at the age of 13, to the then Dai el Mutlaq - Syedna Mohamed Burhanudding (RA), the Mazoom - Syedi Khuzaima Qutbudin (TUS) and the Mukasir Syedi Saleh Safiyudin (RA)/ subsequently on the death of Mukasir Saheb Syedi Hussain Hussamudin (TUS). My Loyalty was and is to the Three Rutba's of Dai, Mazoom and Mukasir established my Moulatena Huratul Maleka, anyone (including Shahzada Muffadal and his retinue) who purporting to be a Tayibi, Mustali, Ismaili, Shia Muslim and does not recognize and respect these three Rutba's for whatever reason is not of the same faith as me. That is my personal bone of contention with the demands of the Central board of Progressive Dawoodi Bohras is that they wish to do away with Misaq together with Raza. Raza I agree with them it is irrelevant and should be done away with.

I believe the Imam uz Zamaan has revealed his illham to SMB and the NASS has been conferred to the rightful person to be our Dai. However we are unaware of that choice as there are two individuals who claim NASS has been done on them, hence we are being tried and tested as individuals by Allah Subnahanu, As far as my understanding goes we humans have intellect which gives us an ability to chose plus we live in an age when information flow is fast, If we have this ability and we have information, then this ability can be legitimately tested. We are Allah Chosen beings, hence we have to be tested to chose where is Haqq. Each of us I believe will have to make our own decision, whether we make it using a logical framework, intuition, because of family or peer pressure, or because someone told me so, the responsibility will be ours individually.

badrijanab
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#519

Unread post by badrijanab » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:18 am

In Islam (i.e. Fatimi Dawat) a successor become authorise only when "Nuss-a-Jli" is done over him by the current sahib.

Muffaddal and Qutbuddin both are unable to provide proof of "Nuss-a-Jli" being made over them hence both are disqualified to hold any post.

Nuss-a-Khafi (private/secret nuss) is unacceptable example) Despite several nuss-a-Khafi over Mola Ali a.s. by Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. he still have to make the "Nuss-a-Jli" otherwise Allah's warning was: all you did as Prophet will go in vain.

haidar
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#520

Unread post by haidar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:21 am

Pdbg group ki ginti hair 42aur 48 dai tak to unko apni ginti ke hisaab sa baat karni chhaiyee criticize karna chaiyee 53dai pe behaas WO karenga Joh 52nd dai ko manta ho begaani shaadi may abdullah diwanaa kyo?aliasghar nagpur

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#521

Unread post by juzerali » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:45 am

haidar wrote:Pdbg group ki ginti hair 42aur 48 dai tak to unko apni ginti ke hisaab sa baat karni chhaiyee criticize karna chaiyee 53dai pe behaas WO karenga Joh 52nd dai ko manta ho begaani shaadi may abdullah diwanaa kyo?aliasghar nagpur
Progressive Dawoodi Bohras (PDB) do believe in 52nd Dai-al-Mutlaq, I don't know their stand with regard to 53rd. If you go to the aboutus page of this site which is here http://dawoodi-bohras.com/about_us/our-mission/ you will find the following:
We are Ismaili Fatimid Mustalian Tayyebi Dawoodi Bohras, a sect of Shia Islam. We accept the succession of Imams up to Imam Tayyeb and his progeny, and the line of Tayyebi Dais starting from Syedna Zoeb bin Moosa to the current Dai, Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin.

We are Dawoodi Bohras, and are referred to as reformists or progressives because of our struggle to bring social reforms in the community. We accept the religious authority and staus of the Dai. What we challenge is the elaborate system of conrol and coercsion that has developed in the instituion of Dawat. In common parlance this bureucracy of the priestly class is calld the Kothar. Over the years the Kothar has assummed draconian powers, taxing and controlling Bohras from womb to tomb.
You can click the link and check out their philosophy. For God sake please throwing tantrums by expressing opinions that are solely based on your assumptions.

Alhamdollilah
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:07 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#522

Unread post by Alhamdollilah » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:17 am

Rumours are being spreaded that SKQ suffered heart attack and is hospitalised, condition critical. If this is true, surely a lot of evil will be spreaded and even SKQ supporters will return back.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1350
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#523

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:22 am

As far as my understanding goes we humans have intellect which gives us an ability to chose plus we live in an age when information flow is fast, If we have this ability and we have information, then this ability can be legitimately tested. We are Allah Chosen beings, hence we have to be tested to chose where is Haqq. Each of us I believe will have to make our own decision, whether we make it using a logical framework, intuition, because of family or peer pressure, or because someone told me so, the responsibility will be ours individually.
well said Mo

on another point SMS loyalist are throwing insults at Reformist and SKQ camp ....now there is a saying when a neighbor fights with everyone along the street then who is at fault

Alhamdollilah
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:07 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#524

Unread post by Alhamdollilah » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:29 am

Why is Mr S.Insaaf missing?

Deerseye
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:30 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#525

Unread post by Deerseye » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:43 am

The news is spreading like wild fire that Khojema bhaisaheb is no more, I wonder what is going on? .?who and why are these rumours being spread? Is it some strategy of muffy camp? Or maybe the opposite camp. Sometimes I feel we are the stupid ones, wasting our precious time and energy?

zinger
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#526

Unread post by zinger » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:45 am

mohamedshah wrote:To answer a few questions as about myself

Mohamed is is my first name and I am not trying to impersonate anyone to get that person into trouble. I am also not playing Cleudo or Who's done it? to reveal identity?, nor subscribe to conspiracy theories. My objective is just to shed light in the debate and propose a framework to make a choice - what i used to decide for myself. Everyone is free to use whatever basis they wish to make their choice. I do not fear that my identity will be revealed as my opinion is based on conviction and not continence. I also had a word about my concerns last evening with the junior Amil of my City, we had a nice discussion (unexpectedly he has also been thinking hard on this issue) , we had dinner, shock hands, smiled and parted ways as usual. Nothing has happened to this time to me, only I have been invited to my family home for Friday lunch after Juma prayers and told one of my uncle's and my cousin will also be joining us regarding the discussion on similar lines I had on this forum, with my cousin 2 days ago, and with the Junior Amil of my City.

I had come across this website initially around 2007,when my uncle died around that time a write up was done on him and his contribution in the reform movement and someone sent me a link, i visited the site form time to time without registering or commenting , As at that time and even today I believe not superficially but fundamentally in the Misaq I gave at the age of 13, to the then Dai el Mutlaq - Syedna Mohamed Burhanudding (RA), the Mazoom - Syedi Khuzaima Qutbudin (TUS) and the Mukasir Syedi Saleh Safiyudin (RA)/ subsequently on the death of Mukasir Saheb Syedi Hussain Hussamudin (TUS). My Loyalty was and is to the Three Rutba's of Dai, Mazoom and Mukasir established my Moulatena Huratul Maleka, anyone (including Shahzada Muffadal and his retinue) who purporting to be a Tayibi, Mustali, Ismaili, Shia Muslim and does not recognize and respect these three Rutba's for whatever reason is not of the same faith as me. That is my personal bone of contention with the demands of the Central board of Progressive Dawoodi Bohras is that they wish to do away with Misaq together with Raza. Raza I agree with them it is irrelevant and should be done away with.

I believe the Imam uz Zamaan has revealed his illham to SMB and the NASS has been conferred to the rightful person to be our Dai. However we are unaware of that choice as there are two individuals who claim NASS has been done on them, hence we are being tried and tested as individuals by Allah Subnahanu, As far as my understanding goes we humans have intellect which gives us an ability to chose plus we live in an age when information flow is fast, If we have this ability and we have information, then this ability can be legitimately tested. We are Allah Chosen beings, hence we have to be tested to chose where is Haqq. Each of us I believe will have to make our own decision, whether we make it using a logical framework, intuition, because of family or peer pressure, or because someone told me so, the responsibility will be ours individually.
Mohamed bhai, my sincere apologies. i take my words back. in these times of doubt, i is easy to fall into a trap of mistrust. I apologise profusely for casting aspersions on your self.

on an aside, i wish my Aamil was like yours!

zinger
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#527

Unread post by zinger » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:48 am

Deerseye wrote:The news is spreading like wild fire that Khojema bhaisaheb is no more, I wonder what is going on? .?who and why are these rumours being spread? Is it some strategy of muffy camp? Or maybe the opposite camp. Sometimes I feel we are the stupid ones, wasting our precious time and energy?

Can anyone shed some light on this? is it true or is it just a rumour?


haidar
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#529

Unread post by haidar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:59 am

Ek taraf to ye site 1 page se end page dai ko criticize karti dai ke harek behaviour par nahin har amal par dusri taraf bolte hai ke hum har dai ko mante bhi hai very confusing site I love u bhi bolti I hate u bhi bolte hai

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#530

Unread post by juzerali » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:28 am

haidar wrote:Ek taraf to ye site 1 page se end page dai ko criticize karti dai ke harek behaviour par nahin har amal par dusri taraf bolte hai ke hum har dai ko mante bhi hai very confusing site I love u bhi bolti I hate u bhi bolte hai
We have a love hate relationship with Da'i. :mrgreen:

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#531

Unread post by voice » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:41 am

mohamedshah wrote:To answer a few questions as about myself

Mohamed is is my first name and I am not trying to impersonate anyone to get that person into trouble............
Please can you shed sum light on the discussion you had with Aamil of your city and your family members?

SBM
Posts: 6444
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#532

Unread post by SBM » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:04 am

Ek taraf to ye site 1 page se end page dai ko criticize karti dai ke harek behaviour par nahin har amal par
Dai Esa Kaam kartey hee kyon hein key unke khud kee family waaley hee un ko criticize kaar rahey hein...Aap ney kabhi sunna hei kisi ney Imam
Hussain or Ahle- Bayt ko Maal=Duaalat or Aayashi ki Zindagi key baaren kabhi criticize kiya ho, Ahle Bayt or Imam Hussain and Imam Ali key Dushmano ney bhi kabhi un ko iss chizoon key baarey mein Kabhi criticize nahi kiya
Aap ke Masteron kaa hi Naara hey Live Like Ali and Die Like Hussain, well the occupants of Saifee Mahal are living like Yazid and dying like Sharon (former Israeli PM after 7 years of Coma)

seriousnessisamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#533

Unread post by seriousnessisamess » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:56 am

Messages on,SKQ death is spreading like wild fire in dawoodi bohra WhatsApp.i just confirmed with a shahzada its all rumours....what is this new tactics to,corner someone...
seems illogical.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1350
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#534

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:19 am

seriousnessisamess wrote:Messages on,SKQ death is spreading like wild fire in dawoodi bohra WhatsApp.i just confirmed with a shahzada its all rumours....what is this new tactics to,corner someone...
seems illogical.
SMS loyalist would love to see SKQ disappear.

Now wait how foolish the SMS loyalist will look like if SKQ shows up alive.

seriousnessisamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#535

Unread post by seriousnessisamess » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:34 am

So now Qutbi bohra is going to form new firka,Does anyone has any idea where will qutbi bohras go for Ramzan prayers and Muharram and other occasions.....the follower's who are living away from Mumbai.

Sceptical
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#536

Unread post by Sceptical » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:42 am

badrijanab wrote:In Islam (i.e. Fatimi Dawat) a successor become authorise only when "Nuss-a-Jli" is done over him by the current sahib.

Muffaddal and Qutbuddin both are unable to provide proof of "Nuss-a-Jli" being made over them hence both are disqualified to hold any post.

Nuss-a-Khafi (private/secret nuss) is unacceptable example) Despite several nuss-a-Khafi over Mola Ali a.s. by Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. he still have to make the "Nuss-a-Jli" otherwise Allah's warning was: all you did as Prophet will go in vain.
I used to think so. But what about Nuss between Imam (as) during Satr : Nuss-e-jaali can't be perform, no?

ammar
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#537

Unread post by ammar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:31 pm

Been getting lots messages saying KQ is expired..bla..bla..bla..

I wonder how those will react when they see him walking tomorow......is it mojiza?? 8)

On a positive note,a split will happen and hopefully it will be a smooth transition.

Both sides should respect each other.

Long gone are the days the community listens to the leader,its time the leader listens to those who have been listening all before.

Long gone are the days the community throws millions,its time the leader throws billions back helping the true needy and poor.

Rise and rise,less not fallen,its time to gain back glory of the Dawat.

kseeker
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#538

Unread post by kseeker » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:04 pm

ammar wrote: Long gone are the days the community listens to the leader,its time the leader listens to those who have been listening all before.
This is not democracy , Ammar. We need a Da'i .. A Da'i does not need us.....
I personally believe neither of the two claiming to be the real Da'i are even worth being considered for the title but that does not mean we chose someone who 'listens to us'...

There is a riwayat that when the Imam reveals himself and it is a time of Jihad, he has the right to claim one third of everything you own... by everything it means even a third of the bread you eat... does this mean you will leave him if you don't like what he asks for?

godmoney
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#539

Unread post by godmoney » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:42 pm

Woe now muffy side need blank singnature forcefully by sending gonda to all mummin placevat night

Just got sms from shehteali

Mumineen aaje Huzurala Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS ni mohabbat je apna dilo ma chey ane Apna Aqida ne izhaar karva no moqe chey. Ye silsila ma Aaje rate Khidmat guzaaro aapna ghare avse ane ek Representation par apni sign lay jase.

trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#540

Unread post by trvoice » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:06 pm

I would simply deny, due to the fact that misaq is a faith and we never took or gave any signature when we gave misaaq. If they threat with violence hell thats what they would get from me, I never did or never will hesitate to defend my love one's. I understand that they are die hard and ready to give their life for the cause so lets see. I personally hope they would not hesitate to give their lives. If it comes down to taking down a few to defend myself and my family, so be it the game is on. :twisted: