Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Lamiya
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#661

Unread post by Lamiya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:30 am

seriousnessisamess wrote:Extract from Late Dr,Asger ali engineer.
All prophets in the Qur'an were from very poorer sections of people. <br>They were mostly from amongst those who grazed cattle in pastoral economy <br>or those who were carpenters, masons etc. There are only two <br>exceptions: Prophets Daud and Sulayman who were kings. Allah made them prophets <br>to show that even kings, if they do not oppress and lead exemplary life according to His teachings, can be entitled to be prophets. Otherwise Allah made all other prophets from weaker sections of society to help weaker sections. Muhammad Rasulullah (PBUH) also was from weaker section of the society.<p>Imam Moiz was also a ruler like other Fatimid rulers who were Imams. But if you study his private life it was full of zuhud (piety). Syedna Qadi al-Numan has written his diary Al-Majalis wa al-Musairat which <br>describes some of the conversations with Imam Moiz which gives us insight about his life. Frtankly speaking the Imams and dais should have nothing to do with politics to provide real guidance and for enriching spiritual life of their followers. That is why all prophets with two exceptions were from weaker sections of socety.
Sure. This is a well known fact and is the truth. However, the point is there were two prophets and there were imams who were kings and ruled and behaved in a way that demands them to based on worldly requirements. So if the DAIs are living a certain lifestyle than why is it such a big thing.

I know the argument is going to be that we are "forced" to pay certain wajebaat. Honestly, that i think is the problem of the jamaat and not the DAI!
However, as per ISLAM we have to give back 2.5% of our earnings to the haq na saheb to be used in the way of Allah. Anything over and above that is you wish and if the jamaat pushes you, than you should reason and contact the DAI if necessary.

Now why should we give even 2,5%, because this is Islam! Also, pay to haq na saheb, since we are all DB (whether PG or no) our haq na saheb is the DAI. So we give 2.5% to him. Again reiterating the point that anything over and above that is your will and if there is a push by the jamaat that is the fault of the individual jamaat and not the DAI!

seriousnessisamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#662

Unread post by seriousnessisamess » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:05 pm

@Lamiya
Jamaat ask in the name of Dai's.....and if you dont give than they put a guilt trip inside the poor mumeens.

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#663

Unread post by juzerali » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:27 pm

Lamiya,
I am sorry to have not noticed you are female. The only reason is that there aren't many on this forum and I haven't heard that name before. Coming back to the point, I can see you are not interested in talking to me but still I would want to ask you, among all the factions of Islam, what particularly attracts you to Dawoodi Bohra community? Because frankly your story sounds too fantastic. You can elaborate, we won't get bored.

Lamiya
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#664

Unread post by Lamiya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:59 pm

juzerali wrote:Lamiya,
I am sorry to have not noticed you are female. The only reason is that there aren't many on this forum and I haven't heard that name before. Coming back to the point, I can see you are not interested in talking to me but still I would want to ask you, among all the factions of Islam, what particularly attracts you to Dawoodi Bohra community? Because frankly your story sounds too fantastic. You can elaborate, we won't get bored.

not relevant and not interested!

This forum is not about sharing my experiences no matter how much you are interested. Also skepticism is healthy, over skepticm is just sad .. clouds your judgement.

seriousnessisamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#665

Unread post by seriousnessisamess » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:09 pm

Lamiya
Have heard lot of,people revert to islam in general,So why DBC ??

Lamiya
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#666

Unread post by Lamiya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:11 pm

seriousnessisamess wrote:@Lamiya
Jamaat ask in the name of Dai's.....and if you dont give than they put a guilt trip inside the poor mumeens.

@seriousnessisamess

yes brother, i do agree with you on that. But then again this should be dealt at the jamaat level.

Honestly, i have seen many a times that mumineen do not have the money (i.e. how much the jamaat generally asks) and they have the full right to tell them that they cant pay that much and the jamaat has understood it. They cant ask you to pay 100 when you have 50. So its an understanding, both ways - communication is the key.

Secondly and with all respect, i have heard cases of total revolt (i.e. we wont give anything). Again, logically this is also fair. However, the 2.5% is Allah's right and we are supposed to pay this to the DAI zamaan. So why total revolt? Now asking where the DAI spends this is not really our business, why because this is Allah's share (i.e. to be spent in the way of Allah).

For the money given by your own free will, again if you are giving at your own free will than why would you ask to give you the hisaab.

Is there anything incorrect about this?

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#667

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:23 pm

Lamiya,

First, just because you decided that Dawoodi Bohra Islam is the true Islam based upon your own research, doesn't mean it is. For all you know, you jumped out of the fire right into the frying pan!!

Second, a more appropriate example for the lifestyle of the current Dai is not Nabi Sulaiman, but Firaun. He lived a lavish lifestyle and he claimed to be the Lord on earth. Same as your Dai. The people had to cower in front of the firaun, just like the bohras do today in front of their Dais. Nabi Sulaiman was given his power and wealth by Allah. The Dai has taken it from his followers, through various deceptions and evil tactics discussed many times on this board. People were harassed in the middle of the night by Firaun and so are the dawoodi bohras today. People were expected to comply with the dictates of the the firaun unconditionally as is expected of the dawoodi bohras of today.

The simple fact that there is a succession dispute in the Mustaali Fatemi blah blah blah, automatically implies that you are not on the straight path. Neither or none of you are. Was there a succession dispute before or after Nabi Sulaiman? No. You will find these disputes amongst the Fatemi Mustaali blah blah blahs only.

kseeker
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#668

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:36 pm

To add my 2 cents....

There is nothing wrong about being rich... it is all about how the riches are used/abused... ie :israaf...

Prophet Mohammed was NOT poor... He was from Banu Hashim and they were VERY rich and powerful... The only reason why none of the qureysh could touch him was because of Abu Talib's massive influence and wealth... Abu Talib had not even a tenth of the wealth and power Abdul Mutalib had...... there is a riwayat that he used so much deer musk that his beard would turn red....Do you have any idea how expensive deer musk is??

Imam Ali Zainul abideen was also a very successful businessman. He used to wear cloth made out of Egyptian cotton which was a novelty at that time....

Imam Moiz was well the John Rockefeller of his time.....

Allah is the one who gives and takes.... there is nothing wrong with being rich... its all about how you made those riches and how you end up spending them.... If you pay your 2.5%, your maal is halal... given that you earned it.. The 'ruling family' did not make their money, they are living this lavish life on our money......

Moreover, the zakat system is perfect... Imagine the top 10 people in the world paying 2.5% a year.. just the top 10... that 2.5 pct of 400 billion... thats $10 billion a year!.... Im sure everyone would agree that no man would go hungry in Africa or any other continent for that matter for a year .....

Lamiya
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#669

Unread post by Lamiya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:40 pm

anajmi wrote:Lamiya,

First, just because you decided that Dawoodi Bohra Islam is the true Islam based upon your own research, doesn't mean it is. For all you know, you jumped out of the fire right into the frying pan!!

Second, a more appropriate example for the lifestyle of the current Dai is not Nabi Sulaiman, but Firaun. He lived a lavish lifestyle and he claimed to be the Lord on earth. Same as your Dai. The people had to cower in front of the firaun, just like the bohras do today in front of their Dais. Nabi Sulaiman was given his power and wealth by Allah. The Dai has taken it from his followers, through various deceptions and evil tactics discussed many times on this board.

The simple fact that there is a succession dispute in the Mustaali Fatemi blah blah blah, automatically implies that you are not on the straight path. Neither or none of you are. Was there a succession dispute before or after Nabi Sulaiman? No. You will find these disputes amongst the Fatemi Mustaali blah blah blahs only.
Brother, I never tired to impose my beliefs onto you or anyone for that matter of fact. To you your beliefs and to me mine.

Now, based on your comparison to Firaun and Dai. I can see where you would get such a notion. However, do remember that the Dai does not in any means coerce you to pay him anything!!!
It has, is and will always be the right of the mumin. For example: In many vaaz and several books it is written that mumin is required to return a certain percentage in gratitude to Allah and to the haq na saheb and to him qaim makam. Now, in the same context, the imam also mentions that if although this is farizat on you and if you are unable to then this will not be counted against you (i.e. it will not be something for which you will be questioned). This has also been repeated by the DAIs.

Furthermore, yes there is a succession dispute. It has happened before so there is no surprise here. Dispute happened at the early stages after Rasul (SAW) death. Is the ISLAM you follow not correct? I mean Ali (AS).

However, we are here to discuss something more specific.

I had some points for which i was looking for answers. It seems that you guys have all the questions (which is good) but no answers for questions that are quite relevant to this thread ... i am sure the admin will agree to this as well !

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#670

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:43 pm

However, do remember that the Dai does not in any means coerce you to pay him anything!!!
That is either ignorance or malice.
I had some points for which i was looking for answers. It seems that you guys have all the questions (which is good) but no answers for questions that are quite relevant to this thread ... i am sure the admin will agree to this as well !
I am sorry. I didn't see any relevant questions in your posts other than the ones I responded to.
Last edited by anajmi on Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kseeker
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#671

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:43 pm

Lamiya wrote:
anajmi wrote:Lamiya,

First, just because you decided that Dawoodi Bohra Islam is the true Islam based upon your own research, doesn't mean it is. For all you know, you jumped out of the fire right into the frying pan!!

Second, a more appropriate example for the lifestyle of the current Dai is not Nabi Sulaiman, but Firaun. He lived a lavish lifestyle and he claimed to be the Lord on earth. Same as your Dai. The people had to cower in front of the firaun, just like the bohras do today in front of their Dais. Nabi Sulaiman was given his power and wealth by Allah. The Dai has taken it from his followers, through various deceptions and evil tactics discussed many times on this board.

The simple fact that there is a succession dispute in the Mustaali Fatemi blah blah blah, automatically implies that you are not on the straight path. Neither or none of you are. Was there a succession dispute before or after Nabi Sulaiman? No. You will find these disputes amongst the Fatemi Mustaali blah blah blahs only.
Brother, I never tired to impose my beliefs onto you or anyone for that matter of fact. To you your beliefs and to me mine.

Now, based on your comparison to Firaun and Dai. I can see where you would get such a notion. However, do remember that the Dai does not in any means coerce you to pay him anything!!!
It has, is and will always be the right of the mumin. For example: In many vaaz and several books it is written that mumin is required to return a certain percentage in gratitude to Allah and to the haq na saheb and to him qaim makam. Now, in the same context, the imam also mentions that if although this is farizat on you and if you are unable to then this will not be counted against you (i.e. it will not be something for which you will be questioned). This has also been repeated by the DAIs.

Furthermore, yes there is a succession dispute. It has happened before so there is no surprise here. Dispute happened at the early stages after Rasul (SAW) death. Is the ISLAM you follow not correct? I mean Ali (AS).

However, we are here to discuss something more specific.

I had some points for which i was looking for answers. It seems that you guys have all the questions (which is good) but no answers for questions that are quite relevant to this thread ... i am sure the admin will agree to this as well !

Could you please be kind enough to post your questions again in point format...

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#672

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:47 pm

Furthermore, yes there is a succession dispute. It has happened before so there is no surprise here. Dispute happened at the early stages after Rasul (SAW) death. Is the ISLAM you follow not correct? I mean Ali (AS).
Well, unfortunately, now the succession disputes is amongst the followers of Ali (as). Go Figure.

There are no succession disputes amongst the Ahle Sunnah. Does that tell you something? You were wrong then and you are wrong now!!

Lamiya
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#673

Unread post by Lamiya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:51 pm

kseeker wrote:To add my 2 cents....

There is nothing wrong about being rich... it is all about how the riches are used/abused... ie :israaf...

Prophet Mohammed was NOT poor... He was from Banu Hashim and they were VERY rich and powerful... The only reason why none of the qureysh could touch him was because of Abu Talib's massive influence and wealth... Abu Talib had not even a tenth of the wealth and power Abdul Mutalib had...... there is a riwayat that he used so much deer musk that his beard would turn red....Do you have any idea how expensive deer musk is??

Imam Ali Zainul abideen was also a very successful businessman. He used to wear cloth made out of Egyptian cotton which was a novelty at that time....

Imam Moiz was well the John Rockefeller of his time.....

Allah is the one who gives and takes.... there is nothing wrong with being rich... its all about how you made those riches and how you end up spending them.... If you pay your 2.5%, your maal is halal... given that you earned it.. The 'ruling family' did not make their money, they are living this lavish life on our money......

Moreover, the zakat system is perfect... Imagine the top 10 people in the world paying 2.5% a year.. just the top 10... that 2.5 pct of 400 billion... thats $10 billion a year!.... Im sure everyone would agree that no man would go hungry in Africa or any other continent for that matter for a year .....

Well said brother. Nothing wrong in being rich.

But spending it incorrectly is not right. Now just one question, in the mosque (the one used primarily by the sunni muslims) there is an imam. Where do you think the imam gets his income from?
He does not go out and sit at a shop or work in an office or graze cattles for that matter of fact. He is a religious figure who gets paid by the government or by his jamaat. Now ofcourse there are exceptions to this as in any case. But majority of them have their income in this fashion.

Now similarly, if the "ruling family" as you put it lives a certain lifestyle, this is based on the income that they get from the community (NOT FORCED BUT WILLING CONTRIBUTION). Is that wrong?

About the richness of Sulaiman Nabi (AS) and Imam Moiz (AS) is a discussion for another time.

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#674

Unread post by juzerali » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:55 pm

@Lamiya you are rather a late comer to this post. Either you have not been following the posts or you are conveniently ignoring the general sentiment of visitors here. To answer your questions, it will help you go through the main article on this site. Progressives' (I am not representing them, but echoing their sentiments) agenda is that Da'i should not interfere in secular life of mumins, autonomy at jamaat level, kothar's powers should be reined in. Also Da'i should not claim status of Kal-Masum (Innocent) like Imam and should give account of spending from account of Dawa'h. These agendas have been there since Syedna Taher Saifuddin and continued during the reign of Syedna Muhammed Burhanuddin.
Lamiya wrote: SO just to indulge you, by facilitating the YAZIDIS of our time, SMS is walking on the foot-steps of SMB. SMB also meet and invite dignitaries of various castes. He shared meals with them, attended their gatherings. Would you say the same about him?
There is a discussion on this forum about SMB felicitating Narendra Modi, and people here have criticized him for that. The point is SMB is not revered here.
Lamiya wrote: I know the argument is going to be that we are "forced" to pay certain wajebaat. Honestly, that i think is the problem of the jamaat and not the DAI!
If you think so than you are completely oblivious to the agenda of Reformists and people who come to these forums to discuss draconian powers of Kothar. The about me page of this site states as follows
We accept the religious authority and staus of the Dai. What we challenge is the elaborate system of conrol and coercsion that has developed in the instituion of Dawat. In common parlance this bureucracy of the priestly class is called the Kothar. Over the years the Kothar has assummed draconian powers, taxing and controlling Bohras from womb to tomb.
We simply don't have time to answer these questions over and over on these forums. My advice to you is go through the PDB website and articles before engaging in conversations. Meanwhile I urge you to not bully and belittle people on this forum with your subtle sarcasms.

About your question on Nass
I think the main article has summed it quite comprehensively. SMB did not declare explicitly an heir. SMS will most likely continue SMB's legacy, SKQ on the other hand, given his weak position, might yield to transfer some power back to the people or he might not. Who knows for sure? We are not here to argue about who formally received Nass from SMB, our concern is who could be a better leader that will benefit the community.

I hope now my arguments makes sense to you.
Last edited by juzerali on Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Lamiya
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#675

Unread post by Lamiya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:57 pm

anajmi wrote:
Furthermore, yes there is a succession dispute. It has happened before so there is no surprise here. Dispute happened at the early stages after Rasul (SAW) death. Is the ISLAM you follow not correct? I mean Ali (AS).
Well, unfortunately, now the succession disputes is amongst the followers of Ali (as). Go Figure.

There are no succession disputes amongst the Ahle Sunnah. Does that tell you something? You were wrong then and you are wrong now!!

Ofcourse there is brother. What is Hanfi, Shafi, Hanbali, Malliki? You like to call them school of thought right its the same brother as this?

One "school of though" thinks KQ is right the other thinks SMS is right. No difference.

We were always right and we always will be (i.e the followers of ALI (AS))

kseeker
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#676

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:00 pm

In a Sunni mosque, the imam is paid a certain fee for his services to his fellow believers...I accept... now how many Sunni Imams do you see roaming the world in private jets and rolls royce?....
The 'ruling family' are leading their luxurious life our of money we pay as Zakaat which is now known as 'wajebaat'....we do not pay it as an income to support their lfiestyles!..

Not forced? you have apparently never done a takhmeen for yearly wajebaats.... technically its not forced, Lamiya. But when not paying means you or your elders won't be given permission to get burried, I think thats pretty much comes under force.....

One more thing, many of the sunni imaams I know of , work... not in a shop or an office but they give Quran tuitions to children... absolutely nothing wrong with that either.. matter of fact, very respectable....

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#677

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:04 pm

What is Hanfi, Shafi, Hanbali, Malliki?
Obviously, you have no idea who these people are or what they have taught else you wouldn't be making such ignorant statements. I am going to say that your decision about Dawoodi Bohra being the true form of Islam was obviously pre-mature. You might want to go back and begin your research once more.

Let me give you one example. No follower of Hanafi school will be found cursing the follower of a Malliki school. Now go look at your own backyard. One follower of Ali is cursing and forcing others to curse another follower of Ali!!

Lamiya
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#678

Unread post by Lamiya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:14 pm

juzerali wrote:@Lamiya you are rather a late comer to this post. Either you have not been following the posts or you are conveniently ignoring the general sentiment of visitors here. To answer your questions, it will help you go through the main article on this site. Progressives' (I am not representing them, but echoing their sentiments) agenda is that Da'i should not interfere in secular life of mumins, autonomy at jamaat level, kothar's powers should be reined in. Also Da'i should not claim status of Kal-Masum (Innocent) like Imam and should give account of spending from account of Dawa'h. These agendas have been there since Syedna Taher Saifuddin and continued during the reign of Syedna Muhammed Burhanuddin.
Lamiya wrote: SO just to indulge you, by facilitating the YAZIDIS of our time, SMS is walking on the foot-steps of SMB. SMB also meet and invite dignitaries of various castes. He shared meals with them, attended their gatherings. Would you say the same about him?
There is a discussion on this forum about SMB felicitating Narendra Modi, and people here have criticized him for that. The point is SMB is not revered here.
Lamiya wrote: I know the argument is going to be that we are "forced" to pay certain wajebaat. Honestly, that i think is the problem of the jamaat and not the DAI!
If you think so than you are completely oblivious to the agenda of Reformists and people who come to these forums to discuss draconian powers of Kothar. The about me page of this site states as follows
We accept the religious authority and staus of the Dai. What we challenge is the elaborate system of conrol and coercsion that has developed in the instituion of Dawat. In common parlance this bureucracy of the priestly class is called the Kothar. Over the years the Kothar has assummed draconian powers, taxing and controlling Bohras from womb to tomb.
We simply don't have time to answer these questions over and over on these forums. My advice to you is go through the PDB website and articles before engaging in conversations. Meanwhile I urge you to not bully and belittle people on this forum with your subtle sarcasms.

About your question on Nass
I think the main article has summed it quite comprehensively. SMB did not declare explicitly an heir. SMS will most likely continue SMB's legacy, SKQ on the other hand, given his weak position, might yield to transfer some power back to the people or he might not. Who knows for sure? We are not here to argue about who formally received Nass from SMB, our concern is who could be a better leader that will benefit the community at large.

It seems that you dont have the time to answer questions that are essential to this thread. But have all the time in the world to argue about issue based on your petty "THINKING"!

SMS has formally received NASS! Maybe SMB would have needed to give you a call personally and convey this to you? Maybe you would have your own little skepticism than as well.

The general tone about this thread is the rightfulness of the NASS and not about the general agenda of the Reformist (which i am completely aware of btw) and hence my questions are very relevant to the discussion. Whereas you seem to come in at all times throughout this discussion, time and again, and spit out some rubbish and nothing constructive and relevant to the discussion. SO MY ADVICE TO YOU IS UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SHARE YOU ARE BETTER OF BEING A BYSTANDER BECAUSE NO MATTER IF THE IMAM COMES AND TELL YOU WHATS RIGHT AND WRONG YOU WILL PROBABLY END UP QUESTIONING HIM!

As for me being new to this forum. All the questions I raised were raised before by others. But no answers!!
I can very well read and understand the language of this forum. If there were answers to those specific question than i would not have even joined in the first place cause of people like you on this forum who wish to divulge within topics within a blink of an eye.

Again, do not address me directly. I dont want to entertain you at all. So adios.

Lamiya
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#679

Unread post by Lamiya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:17 pm

i have two replies from kseeker and anajmi.

Very important points. I will address later.

For now its quite late, need to go sleep. Adios.

Lamiya
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#680

Unread post by Lamiya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:23 pm

Lamiya wrote:
seriousnessisamess wrote:Must read.
http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/
i think this is a very good read .. answers quite a lot of question! Also related to some posts earlier about Abdeali clearly accepting the NASS makes me feel that the KQ camp either forgot that this was said or just conveniently overlooked it. These are not two different bayans, its the same bayan, where he clearly accepts that "NASS nu azeem amal farmayu" and he goes on to describe on who the NASS was performed and then the dua for tul al umar. How is one supposed to ignore this?

* i can write the whole clip here in english if someone was not able to hear it clearly, do let me know*

In any case, there are some lingering questions in this thread that i really feel have not been given importance. I also really feel that people in this thread have raised some valid points (valid in the eyes of a unbiased person) are pushed away conveniently and are either not commented on or are just forgotten. But honestly, two fundamental questions which i think we all should ponder upon before we make accusations:
1) Why did KQ not go to SMB right after the NASS at RAUDAT TAHERA? Yes, he wasn't present there like many other such instances, but well keeping all that aside, am I really supposed to believe that the second in command was not "allowed" to go meet the DAI (in person) for two years! The ruthba of mazoon is very elevated and i do believe that if he actually made an attempt he would be able to. Was he afraid of something? I have heard arguments that Abdeali tried to reach or something like that, not really sure, but why would abdeali want to reach SMB to talk about this? Where was KQ himself in the two years of the NASS?
2) As per the information on the website, the claim is that SMB asked KQ to keep the apparent nass to himself until it is time to disclose. So that raises a few questions in my head. But the most important is that a few months back, times of india published an article discussing a split within the community and that some people felt that KQ was the heir apparent. Saying so, how did times of india get this news? Inside job? If so then how could this inside person have known such a thing? Was it made up by them or was it shared by KQ himself? If made up by some people, then this whole discussion and the thread in fact is an absolute waste but if in fact KQ did reveal this to someone, he did break a vow to SMB! The DAI that he claims to succeed.

One final point before i wrap up, i do appreciate some of the users raising some logical points. I in no means acknowledge that its true i am merely saying that its logical and i respect it. However, it seems that over the past few days the logical discussions have taken a more hateful approach. It is very obvious that some users have a predefined notion in their head and are digging for proofs, words, actions that would justify their beliefs. But if this is to be dealt with logically than i guess keeping an open mind is a pre-requite.

For those who asked to re-post my questions .. here you go!

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#681

Unread post by juzerali » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:36 pm

Can anyone explain to me what this lady who identifies herself as Lamiya is trying to convey? She is really bickering about an old an forgotten topic in rather abusive way. Do we care anymore whether SMB conferred Nass or not? Moreover aren't we tired of explaining every abde who visits this forum how Da'i, Kothar, Jamaat are playing good cop bad cop with us? We are wasting our time on this thread on a matter which is really off topic.

Also on a side note, can anyone explain what this sentence even means?
Lamiya wrote: people like you on this forum who wish to divulge within topics within a blink of an eye
:lol: :lol: :lol:

@Admin,
This thread is unnecessarily being elongated by off topic discussions explaining Lamiya about Dai's role in coercion and who is the rightful heir to Syedna. I think this post is used by people for receiving updates and news on moves of both parties on the matter of succession. Also make note of Lamiya's bullying and slander.
Last edited by juzerali on Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#682

Unread post by juzerali » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:40 pm

@Lamiya, by the way I can address you, or for that matter anyone on this forum directly as I please. This is a free forum for everyone to put forward their questions. If you have such preferences fire up your own forum and ban me there (that is if I, or anybody else, ever joins that).

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#683

Unread post by voice » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:56 pm

I feel that whole discussion of our present topic has taken a different turn, so I feel my duty to direct all of you back on our main topic.

What we are seeing at present happening is a revolution. Yes, its a revolution. All of you, who are able to use brains can understand the lies and deception used to create Nass drama by SMS. Those who have opposed this drama, have strategically planned and opened up new doors of freedom in the community at a point when oppression is at its peak.

The initial success achieved are freedom of VOICE, use of social media, internet and wide level of communication means adopted to convey messages has shown better ways to raise VOICE against tyranny and oppression. Those who have taken this bold steps deserves praise. Every single Bohra is well aware with the happenings and Muffy camp is in state of panic.

I do feel that SKQ camp should not adopt similar ways of lies and deception instead they should plan all there strategy with the intention of "fi-sabilillah". To some it may sound absurd but hope and dawah is part of Eiman and we should join hands with SKQ and help them in planing there strategy on this line.

There are three kind of ideology existing in Bohra community,
1) All those who oppose the whole system of governance on the line of basic faith of Islam, finding shirk, biddats etc for them joining hands with SKQ camp is no different except change of ruler therefore they should join SKQ with clear understanding of difference of opinion but help them in weakening the present system simultaneously, praying and doing best of there efforts for the sake of deen of Allah. Its a golden opportunity for them to convey the truth. They should join hands with SKQ camp with the basic intention of bringing change in condition of People and community. Place there demands of propagating knowledge of Quran and form a system based on true teachings of Islam. If they are successful and inshaallah it likely seems too as Allah says in Quran that "Allah changes the condition of people if they themselves are ready for it".

2) Progressive who want changes in economical sector, Women issues, accountability etc should learn from the planners of this revolution that how to counter opponent. Its best opportunity for them too to join hands with SKQ and work on there demands. Already SKQ camp has shown willingness in adopting reform measures.

3) People who are mostly blind followers or those who are more engaged and bothered with there own worldly affairs then not to expect much from them. They will keep on changing loyalty.

So, to all well wishers, we are in an important era of History, revealing an all together different scenario in a community who is under seize. Time is going to be most decisive factor besides patience and systematic strategy. Unity is need of hour. Sincerely, seek help from Allah and do whatever possible efforts to make this revolution a grand success. Allah has told us in Quran that "He is best of planners" and also Quran tells us that "small Jamaat have emerged victorious over big army", that`s the way Allah works.

hasman001
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#684

Unread post by hasman001 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:10 pm

Got this message just now
ek zarure khaber appu chu munafekein muminean ne convert kerwa waste black magic kalu elm nu istemal kare rahya che tamne koi atter sunghawe ya pani appe zaber dasti to na leju as america ma ane london ma a misal amel thai rahyou che jamea se farig talebaat ye pure ziker ki che a bara na ane ye convert thai gaya che full family
San fransisco
Hafiz,talebaat,moalemaat
Shirin hamza
she and her whole fmly
Tame logo dhyaan rakhjo
Koye attar sungawe soit paani aape to naa lejo
Dushmmano ni chaal che
Ghana dawat si fari Gaya
Batchaos ne samjawjo
Aa msg jitna mumineen tak pohcha vi sako cho pohchaavjo.

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#685

Unread post by juzerali » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:11 pm

Thanks voice for putting an end to this drama and well said about the purpose of this post. I think Kothar goons deliberately wants to distract this popular and busy post by laying the burden of proof on us. Buddies and my dear lady, there goes your plan.
Last edited by juzerali on Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#686

Unread post by juzerali » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:14 pm

hasman001 wrote:Got this message just now
ek zarure khaber appu chu munafekein muminean ne convert kerwa waste black magic kalu elm nu istemal kare rahya che tamne koi atter sunghawe ya pani appe zaber dasti to na leju as america ma ane london ma a misal amel thai rahyou che jamea se farig talebaat ye pure ziker ki che a bara na ane ye convert thai gaya che full family
San fransisco
Hafiz,talebaat,moalemaat
Shirin hamza
she and her whole fmly
Tame logo dhyaan rakhjo
Koye attar sungawe soit paani aape to naa lejo
Dushmmano ni chaal che
Ghana dawat si fari Gaya
Batchaos ne samjawjo
Aa msg jitna mumineen tak pohcha vi sako cho pohchaavjo.
Yup this is the grapevine. Moreover an Amil also said exactly the same thing today during bayaan. Not sure if he got directions from Wazarat or said it on his own accord.

white_pigeon
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#687

Unread post by white_pigeon » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:23 pm

Rumours are that CCTV proof from London hospital will be required to make any claims. Muffy camp said the late Syedna sat upright on the bed. Video proof will be required in international court of law or all assets in the West of the 53rd Dai which risk can be frozen now.

If people have decided to follow 53rd Dai. It has to be SKQ or SMB only. Only one from them. Any dispute among them and all assets and bank accounts can be frozen by authorities as we dont have the 53rd Dai. As he is the owner of all assets.
Peoples signatures is rubbish. People dont decide the Dai. It has to be the chosen one from the 52nd.
Mazoon as 2nd in command appointed by 52nd has a clear upperhand.

Enjoy and support the SKQ uprising. People are power.

Mkenya
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#688

Unread post by Mkenya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:51 pm

QS and MS together with their henchmen are today on a campaign to secure their future by cornering Bohras to sign up support. Bohras, they need you and today cap-in-hand they have come to you to make a choice between them. I tell you: they need your support and not the other way round. Over the years they, and Kothar, have forced you to give them money under the pretexts of wajebaat, khums, salaam, minnat, najwa, daris, nikah, etc. They have not accounted for the money they collect. The vast vaults of money, gold, moveable and unmovable assets are ours. Rightfully ours. To be used for betterment and not their lavish lifestyles. Today they are asking you to support them. Tell them that we have been gullible to support them all these years. They have lined your pockets with billions of dollars from us. Their travels in luxurious comfort, life in palaces, their zadis have a bevy of maids to help them, they have used our money to educate their children in places of learning that the ordinary Bohras can only dream of. Today they are asking you to write over to them the trusts, wakf, masjid, jamaat halls, that they have no right to. It is the rights of Bohras and Bohras alone. Today we can tell them to bugger off and sit down with us. Let us dictate to them that the days of their ayyashi and luxuries are over and grab the power from them. Tell them: ‘Billi ki ankh nau din me khul gayi hei’. Think of this as a call from Imam Zaman, who for some reason cannot do his ‘zuhur’. In fact it could be the Imam who is pointing the Bohras towards what they can do. Revolt and march towards their mahels, devri and throwout all those sheikhs, mullas, and hangers on. This is a great opportunity. QS and MS are seeking our support. They are weak and on their knees. Tell them the game is over and we will dictate everything from now. The Natak of ‘gaib ne jannar’, etc. is over. The Din propagated by them is, was, and will always a farce. The game is up. Bohras, thrown them out of mosques where they have usurped the fundamentals of Islam. Bohras, look around the world and you will see us as a Kaum most subjugated. We have believed in their every ‘wahiyat’ proclamation. MB has the audacity to utter lies from the takhat that Imam Hussein did dua for 52 Dai. What buncum. And here are ten of thusands of us lapping it up and crying. Why did it take QB so many years to disclose the he was done the Nass on. And how could Burhanuddin Saheb do Nass on MB when he was was indisposed that he was incoherent to the world. One has only to emulate Nabi Saheb Muhammed (SA) who on Ghadirulkhum, in front of 120,000 followers to declare Maula Ali that he is the one after me. Man Kuntu Maula Hu, Wa Ali yun Maula Hu. In this day of modern technology it is so easy to communicate a message of Nass to all at the push of a button. We Bohras have been led by a few and now is the time to lead. This opportunity will never come again. ALAS! I KNOW BOHRAS DO NOT HAVE THE "KHAMIRO" TO DO ANYTHING. WE ARE DESTINED TO SUFFER AND WALLOW IN OUR MISERY.

seriousnessisamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#689

Unread post by seriousnessisamess » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:10 pm

What is this new thing/tantrum coming up.I just recieved a message from a cousin from Surat.SKQ is a king of black magic and he is very dangerous guy,Hope u dont open his website from mobile revise and they have a software to trace down ur number,and later get in touch with u and things like that,
I just want to support myself and no one else now.LOL

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#690

Unread post by juzerali » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:15 pm

SQJ addressed people yesterday. He reasoned against SKQ's claim saying a person with disability cannot serve the post of Da'i. He mentioned SKQ's inability to speak legibly explicitly and said SKQ has one more disability which he didn't give details of. Their job of brainwashing abdes has started. They will make it impossible for abdes to even conceive the idea of SKQ as Da'i.