Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1921

Unread post by true_bohra » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:12 am

getting back to this forum after lot of days...

was awaiting updates from KQ camp on cromwell....did anyone receive it....

PS: it is not that my mind has changed about the true dai but KQ website promised to reply about the hospital nass so I am interested in knowing about it. After all there sherbet theory has failed miserably...

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1922

Unread post by Adam » Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:01 pm

haqniwaat wrote:If you read on fatemidawat.com, it talks about Syedna Qutbuddin's vision and the abolishment of red yellow green. Worth reading. Here's some of it:
"The hurmat and sanctity of each mumin must be preserved. No one should be allowed to malign others. The color-coded system of green, yellow and red safai-chitthi instituted by certain elements within the administration is wrong; it creates dissension among mumineen. It is imperative that there be unity in the jama’at; that all jama’at members live in harmony and concord. In Dawat majalis and in all mumineen gatherings, an atmosphere of joy and tranquility should prevail. Spiritual elevation is obtained by learning and deeds, ilm and amal, and it is Allah Ta’ala who determines it. It is not for the Aamil to decide who is green and who is red."
-- FatemiDawat.com
The Safai chitty was a system put in place by the 52nd Dai.
If KQ opposes it now, it shows he doesn't accept the 52nd Dai. Or else he should have spoken up.

P.S- What's put in the graves is a Ruqu Chitty, not Safai Chitty.
And Yes, The Mazoons name was in the Chitty at the time, because he was the Mazoon at the time.
After he was removed of his position, the Ruqu Chitty was updated accordingly.

These systems have been put in place for reasons, of which the Dai knows best.
Najaat and salvation is purely on the Iman of a Mumin.


SBM
Posts: 6352
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1923

Unread post by SBM » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:10 pm

And Yes, The Mazoons name was in the Chitty at the time, because he was the Mazoon at the time.
After he was removed of his position, the Ruqu Chitty was updated accordingly.
So Adam Bhai
So what is the name of Mazoon now on the Rukku Chitti?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1924

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:22 pm

SBM wrote:So what is the name of Mazoon now on the Rukku Chitti?
He is "Ghaib na Mazoon" or in YN's family's words he is "Batini Mazoon" !

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1925

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:02 pm

Adam if you are really believing your thagoot muffy is some spiritual leader and he really gets ilhaam from Allah and Imam then I must say you sincerely need some rest.

you and your toli miserably failed to even provide 10 qualities of him which can make him dai, yet you keep on reading qasida on his name, I mean brother why are you doing this? for money? come on how much you make out of this? making people gumraah and making money by supporting chor and thug like muffy wont help you here or hereafter.

think about it and amend your ways as soon as possible.

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1926

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:05 pm

Adam wrote:
haqniwaat wrote:If you read on fatemidawat.com, it talks about Syedna Qutbuddin's vision and the abolishment of red yellow green. Worth reading. Here's some of it:
"The hurmat and sanctity of each mumin must be preserved. No one should be allowed to malign others. The color-coded system of green, yellow and red safai-chitthi instituted by certain elements within the administration is wrong; it creates dissension among mumineen. It is imperative that there be unity in the jama’at; that all jama’at members live in harmony and concord. In Dawat majalis and in all mumineen gatherings, an atmosphere of joy and tranquility should prevail. Spiritual elevation is obtained by learning and deeds, ilm and amal, and it is Allah Ta’ala who determines it. It is not for the Aamil to decide who is green and who is red."
-- FatemiDawat.com
The Safai chitty was a system put in place by the 52nd Dai.
If KQ opposes it now, it shows he doesn't accept the 52nd Dai. Or else he should have spoken up.

P.S- What's put in the graves is a Ruqu Chitty, not Safai Chitty.
And Yes, The Mazoons name was in the Chitty at the time, because he was the Mazoon at the time.
After he was removed of his position, the Ruqu Chitty was updated accordingly.

These systems have been put in place for reasons, of which the Dai knows best.
Najaat and salvation is purely on the Iman of a Mumin.

who removed him from mazoon position?

muffy?

muffy claimed to be fake dai so obviously he will remove some one who is giving him tuf time, if muhammed burhaanuddin had removed mazoon then it was different case.

truth seeker100
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:54 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1927

Unread post by truth seeker100 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:13 am

true_bohra wrote:getting back to this forum after lot of days...

was awaiting updates from KQ camp on cromwell....did anyone receive it....

PS: it is not that my mind has changed about the true dai but KQ website promised to reply about the hospital nass so I am interested in knowing about it. After all there sherbet theory has failed miserably...
what kept you so busy?? I bet you were worshipping muffy and licking his feet

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1928

Unread post by true_bohra » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:53 am

Firstly, there are mundane activities in life too which are more important than visiting this forum.

Secondly, you are so confidant on me that you can bet on my activities and my life or about what was I doing.

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1929

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:55 am

true_bohra wrote:Firstly, there are mundane activities in life too which are more important than visiting this forum.

Secondly, you are so confidant on me that you can bet on my activities and my life or about what was I doing.
only mundane thing for an abde like you is to sing ghanu jivo and fall into reverse sajda for their master muffy LOOOL

or may be true_ghada was busy washing clothes of his master so he can continue world trip once again.

:wink: :wink: :wink:

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1930

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:23 am

MS is officially ruling from front from last 8 months. What i am surprise to see is people like ADAM(am especially mentioning Adam name because he is the only one who gives detail explanations in defence of MS) fails to give even single quality of him being the dai let leave alone the qualities. Common brother they are many MS supporters on the forum registered/unregistered who would be waiting impatiently for your reply. Dont dishearten them.

The same question was also asked to all the supporters of what you all term as DAVEDAR and they did gave logical reply.

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1931

Unread post by Adam » Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:13 am

@SBM
So Adam Bhai
So what is the name of Mazoon now on the Rukku Chitti?

Since the Dai hasn't appointed a Mazoon, the name is left blank.
I'm sure it would be the same on for KQ, because he hasn't appointed one either.

@AmmarHussaini
who removed him from mazoon position?

Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS removed him from his position. As he is the only Dai appointed by the Nass of the 52nd Dai.

You even refer to the 52nd Dai as "muhammed burhaanuddin", which shows your disrespect for the 52nd Dai as well. So this whole discussion about the 53rd or the Mazoon is pointless for you.

@fustrate_Bohra
Qualities of the Dai.
This is a very vague question that doesn't even need an answer. Each person has their own interpretation.
The only most important "quality" would be that Syedna Mufaddal TUS is the Mansoos of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. The 52nd Dai saw ALL the "qualities" needed for a Dai in him, and performed a clear Nass on him. Syedna Burhanuddin RA is the only judge of these "qualities". Not you nor me.

During Syedna Hatim's RA time, an enemy of Dawat had stated that "Syedna doesn't even have a quality of a Mumin, let alone a Dai". Unfortunately for the speaker, he was blind.
Do those allegations disprove Syedna Hatim's maqaam? No.

In the same way, I sense the same in you.

Salaam

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1932

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:01 am

Adam bhai well tried but if i am correct dai should work in such a way that his qualities should be visible by common men like us.

We are still awaiting the quality which was seen by smb to be expose in front of us.

We all respect Rasul'allah not because GOD has chosen him but we believe and respect him because his deeds was so enormous that we are confident and sure that god has indeed choose him as messenger to spread love. Similarly goes for our imams its because of their deeds and sacrifices we respect from the bottom of our hearts and not because they are progeny from rasul'allah.

Similarly my point to gain respect MS requires some thing to show in the interest of momin in deen and especially duniya which neither you nor we could see.

Just like us I think people like you are also blind because you all also had NOT seen any quality in him otherwise you and all like minded would have come up with single or couple of points.

Its so strange MS followers are so-so many but didnt came up single capability whereas KQ saheb follower is so-so less but still they came up with a response which has been seen by his followers and earlier seen by smb so as to make him mazoon(now davedar).

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1933

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:35 am

Adam wrote:[Since the Dai hasn't appointed a Mazoon, the name is left blank.
I'm sure it would be the same on for KQ, because he hasn't appointed one either.
Well as per zahir batin concept, there is a mazoon in batin, so how can one say Dai hasn’t appointed mazoon ! and if I understand correct Dai, mazon mukasir is appointed by Imam-uz-Zamaan !
No era can be without Imam or his representation ! which includes Dai, mazoon and mukasir !
Adam wrote:Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS removed him from his position. As he is the only Dai appointed by the Nass of the 52nd Dai.
SMS contender of 53rd Dai removes the mazoon appointed by 52nd Dai ! it implies SMB was wrong in keeping SKQ on his post for 50 long years ! as per your argument, SKQ ceases to be Mazoon upon his declaration of claim to 53rd dai ship. However SMB is a ghaib-na-jaankar did he not know of SKQ’s intention; his deputy under his nose ! Ghar-ka-bhedi-lanka-dhaaye
Now comes the usual adage : “AA sab hikmat ni waaton che.. samajh nahi pade”

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1934

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:46 am

FB
It is an intelligent discussion regarding faith in a leader for its affiliation or deeds/qualities ! in bohra doctrine, the affiliation is given more emphasis assuming that affiliation guarantees deeds and qualities.

Abdes don’t need qualities in SMS or SKQ, as long as the show is running to the spiritual convenience, promises of heaven, 2 mithas kharas and socializing club where they can pass their time. No qualities are required.

If at all you want qualities of SMS and SKQ, every move they make, every sway of their hands, every steps of their feet, every word they speak is a shanaat, ehsaan and karam for abdes. Actually abdes love their Dai like a small baby. They are amazed, delighted, excited, surprised to see every move DAI makes is so cute and full of Ah-my-god spirituality !
You want 10 !! there are millions of shanaat, ehsaan and karam. So much that you will need oceans as ink and trees as pen to right them down… which 10 … is going to be a tough question ! that is why it is vague and silly question, which has no concise answer !

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1935

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:26 am

Adam wrote:These systems have been put in place for reasons, of which the Dai knows best.
Najaat and salvation is purely on the Iman of a Mumin.
System of Safaai Chitthi and Rukku Chitthi is put in place for well known reason and it is not a rocket neither spiritual science to figure out the modus operandi to instill fear and dependence in minds of gullible, knowledgeless believer/ followers and best of all abdes !

It started with excuse of administrative convenience for effective nizaam and later enforced as spiritual compliance. Safaai chitthi and rukki chitthi are one of the tools to exploit and oppress the commoners to establish power and revenue.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1936

Unread post by true_bohra » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:45 am

AmmarHussaini wrote:
true_bohra wrote:Firstly, there are mundane activities in life too which are more important than visiting this forum.

Secondly, you are so confidant on me that you can bet on my activities and my life or about what was I doing.
only mundane thing for an abde like you is to sing ghanu jivo and fall into reverse sajda for their master muffy LOOOL

or may be true_ghada was busy washing clothes of his master so he can continue world trip once again.

:wink: :wink: :wink:
so its ammar husaini this time. IGNORE

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1937

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:49 am

true_bohra wrote:
AmmarHussaini wrote: only mundane thing for an abde like you is to sing ghanu jivo and fall into reverse sajda for their master muffy LOOOL

or may be true_ghada was busy washing clothes of his master so he can continue world trip once again.

:wink: :wink: :wink:
so its ammar husaini this time. IGNORE
good
Attachments
download.jpg
download.jpg (6.05 KiB) Viewed 4165 times

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1938

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:41 pm

humanbeing wrote:System of Safaai Chitthi and Rukku Chitthi is put in place for well known reason
First let Adam prove that the concept of Safai chithi and specially "Ruku Chithi" was ever there during the era of Dais prior to the 51st Dai and is there any mention of it in ANY of the Dawat books !!

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1939

Unread post by haqniwaat » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:06 pm

The main question that is not being answered by the mufaddalis is why don't you admit that you believe in zahir batin and this belief is the easiest way to discredit mazoon. And you have gotten your wish. So why immediately after Burhanuddin Syedna past away did abdul qadeer grandson of Syedna and son in law of muffadal bs have to go to court to get his name added as a trustee? If Syedna had made him mansoos, why was his name not there already, and why is mazoon name everywhere as trustee?

Moiz_Dhaanu
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1940

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:17 pm

haqniwaat wrote:The main question that is not being answered by the mufaddalis is why don't you admit that you believe in zahir batin and this belief is the easiest way to discredit mazoon. And you have gotten your wish. So why immediately after Burhanuddin Syedna past away did abdul qadeer grandson of Syedna and son in law of muffadal bs have to go to court to get his name added as a trustee? If Syedna had made him mansoos, why was his name not there already, and why is mazoon name everywhere as trustee?
Excellent Point @haqniwaat...
Infact i would also like to ask the Abdes if at all it is mentioned in any of the Kitaabs about zahir batin rutbas ?
That leads me to one more question , would you all(especially abdes) believe whatever the Dai would say (in this case Shz MS) even if it went againts the basic Islamic tenets? Would they use their common sense to rethink over it , or would they just accept it blindly?

Moiz_Dhaanu
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1941

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:31 pm

Adam wrote:@SBM
@fustrate_Bohra
Qualities of the Dai.
This is a very vague question that doesn't even need an answer. Each person has their own interpretation.
The only most important "quality" would be that Syedna Mufaddal TUS is the Mansoos of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. The 52nd Dai saw ALL the "qualities" needed for a Dai in him, and performed a clear Nass on him. Syedna Burhanuddin RA is the only judge of these "qualities". Not you nor me.

During Syedna Hatim's RA time, an enemy of Dawat had stated that "Syedna doesn't even have a quality of a Mumin, let alone a Dai". Unfortunately for the speaker, he was blind.
Do those allegations disprove Syedna Hatim's maqaam? No.

You must be kidding man !!! what person in his senses would put "ilm na pahaad":Syedna Hatim(RA) and the "The Naive and Arrogant" : Shz MS in the same Comparison pedestial , or for that matter in the same sentense :shock:

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1942

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:20 am

Abdes don’t care, what are these zaahir baatin concepts or who is Hidden Imam, they just wanna know what is kharaas-mithaas and when is the next jaman. Initiate a conversation with Abde either they will start foaming laanats without head or tail idea of why they are doing so (or) they will say “Apne-su-karvu-jem-chaale-che-chaalva-do”

I met some interesting gossipy abdes who take good interest in davedar controversy and pledge unshakeable faith in SMS. They abuse SKQ left right and centre and feel piously relieved of their religious duties of walayat towards their aqa maula SMS by throwing laanats on dawat-no-dushman !

Ask them how much they know about SKQ or least if they ever met him, they have not. When I informed them; SKQ has been trained by STS and SMB and held mazoon position as well as hold multiple relationship with SMS by being samdhi, kaka, sasur ! many youngsters don’t even understand the weightage (Rutba) of these positions (mazoon and mukasir). They are lost and confused and yet continue to throw laanats. I was amazed and amused at the stupidity of abdes. Some are like log of woods to talk to. researching facts is haram for them.

zinger
Posts: 2031
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1943

Unread post by zinger » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:30 am

humanbeing wrote:Abdes don’t care, what are these zaahir baatin concepts or who is Hidden Imam, they just wanna know what is kharaas-mithaas and when is the next jaman. Initiate a conversation with Abde either they will start foaming laanats without head or tail idea of why they are doing so (or) they will say “Apne-su-karvu-jem-chaale-che-chaalva-do”

I met some interesting gossipy abdes who take good interest in davedar controversy and pledge unshakeable faith in SMS. They abuse SKQ left right and centre and feel piously relieved of their religious duties of walayat towards their aqa maula SMS by throwing laanats on dawat-no-dushman !

Ask them how much they know about SKQ or least if they ever met him, they have not. When I informed them; SKQ has been trained by STS and SMB and held mazoon position as well as hold multiple relationship with SMS by being samdhi, kaka, sasur ! many youngsters don’t even understand the weightage (Rutba) of these positions (mazoon and mukasir). They are lost and confused and yet continue to throw laanats. I was amazed and amused at the stupidity of abdes. Some are like log of woods to talk to. researching facts is haram for them.

i agree. most people abuse ex-Mazun Maula without understanding they are abusing the blood of Taher Saifuddin Maula and Burhanuddin Maula. While i personally have no religous attachment to Mazun Maula, because, like many have mentioned, he was sidelined for so long that many forgot about him, i could not bring myself to abuse someone who had the same blood in his veins

but about not knowing or caring about the Imam is wrong. i will not agree.

yes, there might be some kids in their teens or early twenties, but heck, i didnt care about these things when i was that age either. i was only interested in "thaal ma su che aaje"

i guess when you grow older, and time comes about teaching your kids about Islam is when you tend to understand these things

and BTW, those gossipy abdes you met, well, they were just idle minds who probably have nothing more important to concern themselves with

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1944

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:41 am

zinger wrote: but about not knowing or caring about the Imam is wrong. i will not agree.
Many do not have an idea, about Hidden Imam, all they know is some mystical twisted concept called Purdah Imam. Which is 21st Imam Tayyeb who is still in purdah for last hundreds of years.

How would you like to care about hidden imam ? do you know his face, voice, identity, looks, speech his likes or dislikes etc. Do you know when is the salgiraah of Imam-uz-Zaman ? since last hundreds of years Salgirah of Imam-uz-Zaman is celebrated on one day only. Does it mean that all the hidden Imams thereafter are destined to be born on same day of the year ? do you see any pomp and glory on salgirah of Imam-uz-zaman as compared to SMB’s salgirah !

zinger
Posts: 2031
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1945

Unread post by zinger » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:10 am

humanbeing wrote:
zinger wrote: but about not knowing or caring about the Imam is wrong. i will not agree.
Many do not have an idea, about Hidden Imam, all they know is some mystical twisted concept called Purdah Imam. Which is 21st Imam Tayyeb who is still in purdah for last hundreds of years. NO YAAR, YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THIS. NO ONE BELIEVES THAT THE IMAM US ZAMAAN IS THE SAME AS THE ONE FROM HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO. IT IS THE DESCENDANT OF IMAM TAYYAB

How would you like to care about hidden imam ? do you know his face, voice, identity, looks, speech his likes or dislikes etc. NO OFCOURSE NOT. NO ONE DOES. Do you know when is the salgiraah of Imam-uz-Zaman ? since last hundreds of years Salgirah of Imam-uz-Zaman is celebrated on one day only. THIS WOULD BE THE MOST CONVENIENT BRO. WHO KNOWS WHAT DAY IS THE SAALGIRAH OF THE CURRENT IMAM. KEEPING THE SAALGIRAH ON THE SAME DAY IS BOTH SYMBOLIC AND CONVENIENT.Does it mean that all the hidden Imams thereafter are destined to be born on same day of the year NO YOU ARE ASSUMING WRONG ? do you see any pomp and glory on salgirah of Imam-uz-zaman as compared to SMB’s salgirah ! NO I DONT BUT THAT IS BECAUSE THE DAI IS IN FRONT OF US THE IMAM IS IN MEMORY. WOULD YOU CELEBRATE THE BIRTHDAY OF A RELATIVE YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN OR YOUR BROTHER? SAME LOGIC HERE

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1946

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:55 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
humanbeing wrote:System of Safaai Chitthi and Rukku Chitthi is put in place for well known reason
First let Adam prove that the concept of Safai chithi and specially "Ruku Chithi" was ever there during the era of Dais prior to the 51st Dai and is there any mention of it in ANY of the Dawat books !!
GM bhai, I sincerely wish adam prove you wrong by submitting proof else if he fails to do so it means the generations who died in the period between 1st dai till sts became dai are facing hell and it also means that dai prior to sts were not so knowledgeable.

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1947

Unread post by haqniwaat » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:14 pm

One thing all of you are forgetting is that the Dai az Zamaan (the Dai of the present era) is called exactly that because he is the one who is supposed to guide follwers to Imam uz Zamaan in the present era. So since eras change, but deen does not, certain traditions and rules (not shariat) change or are changed or added/deleted to suit the needs of the present era. This is very well stated in dawat kitaab.
So if the present Dai decides to get rid of safai chithi, it is his perogative. Safai chithi is not shariat, it is a tradition. And furthermore, any tradition or rules instated by the current present Dai is what is to be enforced, not those instated by a previous Dai.

DisillusionedDB
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:20 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1948

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:48 pm

haqniwaat wrote:Safai chithi is not shariat, it is a tradition.
How can you term safai chitthi as tradition ? It's just a coercive tool to separate and sideline the paying bohras from the non-paying ones. It has no concern with whether you are praying namaaz or observing your obligatory rozas or any other Islamic obligations

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1949

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:17 am

DisillusionedDB wrote: How can you term safai chitthi as tradition ? It's just a coercive tool to separate and sideline the paying bohras from the non-paying ones. It has no concern with whether you are praying namaaz or observing your obligatory rozas or any other Islamic obligations
Exactly ! Safai Chitthi and Rukku Chitthi are nothing but administrative innovation to keep bohras in check. There used to be a green/yellow color A4 size paper that an Amil used to issue on every occasion a bohra requires to avail jamaat services. It was cumbersome and bureaucratic for both extortionist and the victim. With technology they switched to ejamat card.

In order to instill respect and obedience to their mere administrative process, they manipulated or linked these with salvation and heaven. Else it was a tough job to extract monies out of bohra businessmen. Now with fear of their akheraat these abde idiots pay up buckets. Every wealthy person thinks they can buy everything with money and so these abdes think. Some pretend to be wealthy by paying up …

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1950

Unread post by Adam » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:51 am

@Frustrated Bohra
We all respect Rasul'allah not because GOD has chosen him but we believe and respect him because his deeds was so enormous that we are confident and sure that god has indeed choose him as messenger to spread love. Similarly goes for our imams its because of their deeds and sacrifices we respect from the bottom of our hearts and not because they are progeny from rasul'allah.

TOTALLY Incorrect:
You should follow Rasulullah ONLY because Allah chose him. Do you know what "Rasulullah" means? It means the Rasool OF ALLAH. So your belief is completely twisted.
Why did Allah choose him? Because he had ALL THE QUALITIES of a Rasool, whether you see it or not, he's still the Rasool.

In that case, you should make Mother Teressa your Prophet as well.

@Haqniwaat
So why immediately after Burhanuddin Syedna past away did abdul qadeer grandson of Syedna and son in law of muffadal bs have to go to court to get his name added as a trustee? If Syedna had made him mansoos, why was his name not there already, and why is mazoon name everywhere as trustee?

INCORRECT:
KQ wasn't a Trustee.
Abdul Qadir Bs carried out these instructions for formalities to inform the courts about the the name of the current Dai Mutlaq Syedna Mufaddal TUS- The Dai Mutlaq is the sole Trustee.