Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
truth seeker100
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:54 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1951

Unread post by truth seeker100 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:52 pm

Adam wrote:@Frustrated Bohra
We all respect Rasul'allah not because GOD has chosen him but we believe and respect him because his deeds was so enormous that we are confident and sure that god has indeed choose him as messenger to spread love. Similarly goes for our imams its because of their deeds and sacrifices we respect from the bottom of our hearts and not because they are progeny from rasul'allah.

TOTALLY Incorrect:
You should follow Rasulullah ONLY because Allah chose him. Do you know what "Rasulullah" means? It means the Rasool OF ALLAH. So your belief is completely twisted.
Why did Allah choose him? Because he had ALL THE QUALITIES of a Rasool, whether you see it or not, he's still the Rasool.

In that case, you should make Mother Teressa your Prophet as well.

@Haqniwaat
So why immediately after Burhanuddin Syedna past away did abdul qadeer grandson of Syedna and son in law of muffadal bs have to go to court to get his name added as a trustee? If Syedna had made him mansoos, why was his name not there already, and why is mazoon name everywhere as trustee?

INCORRECT:
KQ wasn't a Trustee.
Abdul Qadir Bs carried out these instructions for formalities to inform the courts about the the name of the current Dai Mutlaq Syedna Mufaddal TUS- The Dai Mutlaq is the sole Trustee.
muffy isn't the dai. CASE CLOSED

rational_guy
Posts: 205
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1952

Unread post by rational_guy » Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:58 am

Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin's TUS amal mubarak.

http://fatemidawat.com/bayan/publicatio ... _articles/

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1953

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:03 am

Adam bhai u r ryt prophet mohammed was choosen by allah because of his qualities. BUT my point is How normal people come to know that prophet mohammed was indeed chosen by allah? Its only, only and only after the people during that era had seen his capability and his continuous struggle to bring reform towards betterment of humanity.

Make note because of the witnesses of these people we know Rasulallah.

Adam, Allah didnt came in everybodys dream who accepted islam during that era and said "I am the only one who created you AND I had chosen MOHAMMED to be my messenger" Its only because of his quality which was seen by commoners during that time made them confident and made them believed from the core of their heart that rasulallah was indeed chosen by allah as rasool.

In the same way i want to make my point that if smb has seen quality in him than we are also waiting for the same quality to experience. Am sorry to say but adam you dont have valid point to debate.


Lastly dont match Mother teressa with MS no match.

Adam
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1954

Unread post by Adam » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:22 am

@frustrated Bohra
Wrong again.
People didn't simply accept Rasulullah because he was a "nice man".
They accepted him because he was a Nabi who received the NASS of all the Nabi's and Imams before him, and he was appointed as a Rasool by NASS.

Why was he the Mansoos? Because he had all the qualities of a Nabi & Mansoos, and attained that perfection.

If it were up to people to judge who the good and bad people were, they would be easily distracted by many who "Seem" to be good. The perception of a Human is always flawed and biased. What one may seem as good is bad to another. If so, why didn't EVERYONE is Rasulullah's time see his personality and accept Islam? Because in their perception he wasn't the "rightful leader".

That's why the system of Appointing is flawless. Allah appoints, and only the Imam/Nabi declares his Mansoos, as he is the only who can judge.

NASS is of Primary importance.



SBM
Posts: 6445
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1955

Unread post by SBM » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:51 am

Adam
If I buy all your arguments why did not SMB announced the Nuss at his 100th Birthday, a pompous ceremony where many heads of the state were in audience. We play with MANSOOS games. SMB was given Nuss by STS at a very early stage,As per your own argument it is Imam who instructs Dai to appoint next in line, Was Imam Sleep at the helm not knowing the condition of his Dai who has suffered stroke. Was not Imam should have known that time will come when SMB will be incoherent due to his medical condition.
SMB could have avoided all this by publicly announcing his NUSS at 100th Pompous Saligarh Ceremony. He had the attention of entire world and Media

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1956

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:48 pm

Adam wrote:@frustrated Bohra
Wrong again.
People didn't simply accept Rasulullah because he was a "nice man".
They accepted him because he was a Nabi who received the NASS of all the Nabi's and Imams before him, and he was appointed as a Rasool by NASS.


May be you are right that rasulallah received nass from earlier nabi or imam, but he was alone at that time. How or more importantly why did people of that era believe that rasulallah indeed received nass from earlier nabi/imam? (please dont say rasulallah said and people believed)

Why was he the Mansoos? Because he had all the qualities of a Nabi & Mansoos, and attained that perfection.

Agreed, this was witnessed by all the people during that era by his act.

If it were up to people to judge who the good and bad people were, they would be easily distracted by many who "Seem" to be good. The perception of a Human is always flawed and biased. What one may seem as good is bad to another. If so, why didn't EVERYONE is Rasulullah's time see his personality and accept Islam? Because in their perception he wasn't the "rightful leader".

Again agreed, This is what my point is every followers know why they follow their leader. Others who rejected islam know why they are doing this may be they like their leader few qualities and Followers of islam knows why are they following rasulallah. Adam on a personal note if i ask you why you follow rasulallah m sure apart from being he is appointed by Nabi/imam(as you said) he was having so, so, so.... qualities which unfortunately you fail to mention in MS case apart from he is appointed by smb(which is in question)

That's why the system of Appointing is flawless. Allah appoints, and only the Imam/Nabi declares his Mansoos, as he is the only who can judge.

Agreed they judge but its commoners who experience. Rasulallah had not shown devine powers to make people believe and thats the main reason why not all accepted islam and again will say the same thing its only because of his good deeds we believe that allah exists and was appointed by him.

NASS is of Primary importance.

And equally important is to appoint good leader otherwise its we(followers) who have to pay price in deen and duniya.
My answers is in blue.

You said rasulallah was appointed by earlier nabis/imams but as far as my understanding goes rasulallah received direct call from allah via jibrael in the cave of hira when he was alone along with ameerul momineen. Do clear my doubts.

Kaka Akela
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1957

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:20 pm

There is real difference between Deen and Duniya appointments;

In Duniya, you acquire qualifications then get appointed

In deen, you get chosen by Allah or Imam or Dai and given qualifications.

Rasulullah did not have the Nass from previous Imam or Nabi (yes he was a descendant from Ibrahim SA family tree), but he was chosen (Mustafa) by Allah and Gibraeel taught him things to carry on his mission. Also there is rivayat that some farrishtas removed something black from his body when he was young man (probably shar and other nasty things) because he was intended to be chosen by then by Allah.

so also there were Dai(s) who were appointed Dai at the age of 23 and used to go to Ulema and take lessons from them to round out their knowledge. This was I think in Syedna Abd e ali Saifuddin era. But nowadays we automatically assume that the new Dai knows it all.

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin was Mazoon and Mansoos for 33 years and we did not take his name in Misaq, misaq was only for Imam and later they added Dai in it, Then when Mufaddal Maola became Mansoos they added mansoos as well in misaq.

Moiz_Dhaanu
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1958

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:35 am

Here are some very poignant things to think about..

SHz.MS: Male chauvinistic
SKQ: Equalistic

SHz.MS: Short tempered
SKQ: Patient

SHz.MS: My-Way or the Highway
SKQ: Middle path(Same as moulana Ali's teaching)

SHz.MS: Hate Monger
SKQ: Peace-loving and Dialogue-centric

SHz.MS: Indulges in False Testimony under oath (claimed in court that they never showered lanats on SKQ)
SKQ: Pledged on the holy Quraan (Shz.MS has yet to do that to prove his claim)

SHz.MS: Goes on hunting Trips even before 'cho maasiyu' (six month lament period of Syedna Burhanuddin(RA))
SKQ: Continues somber acts to remember the benevolence of 52nd Dai(RA)

SHz.MS: Alienates mumin with his belligerent bayaans
SKQ: Starts with very few followers but has more and more mumin want to join him by his compassionate rendering of Aal-e-mohammed's ilm

SHz.MS: His abdes want us to believe that he(SMS) is unaware of the corruption and mafia-work-style of kasre-aali and kothar, hence he is not at fault for all the vices in current day dawat.
SKQ: His philosophy "Islam is a religion of Rehmat, kindness, compassion and mercy. Coercion and extortion of any kind are NOT tolerated"

SHz.MS: Corrupt Amils in his reign get no punishment in his realm and infact continue in better posts.
SKQ: His philosophy "No one has immunity: every person in the Dai’s administration is accountable to the Dai, and needs to explain his/her actions
when questioned. There will be no discrimination."

fustrate_Bohra
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1959

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:17 am

If Imam exist on earth what was the need for entering dai name in misaq? If inclusion of dai was of that much important than why it was not mentioned by our third dai syedna hatim (guess he introduce misaq for Imam)?

It was our dai RESPONSIBILITIES to make his followers realize that IMAM do exists just like rasulallah made followers of islam realize that their is only one god. Look at our earlier 2 dais the way they had twisted the misaq text and given themselves full authority had itself raise question in the believers of dawoodi bohra that whether do Imam really exist or not?

Thats the reason i always says it was rasulallah act that made everybody believe that god exists and now its the act of our dais(last 2) that has created doubts in our mind of Imam existence.

Our dais miserably failed in theirs SERVICE for which they were appointed, but on the other hand they had proved themselves to be a good BUSINESSMEN.
Last edited by fustrate_Bohra on Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

fustrate_Bohra
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1960

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:25 am

Moiz_Dhaanu wrote:Here are some very poignant things to think about..

SHz.MS: Male chauvinistic
SKQ: Equalistic

SHz.MS: Short tempered
SKQ: Patient

SHz.MS: My-Way or the Highway
SKQ: Middle path(Same as moulana Ali's teaching)

SHz.MS: Hate Monger
SKQ: Peace-loving and Dialogue-centric

SHz.MS: Indulges in False Testimony under oath (claimed in court that they never showered lanats on SKQ)
SKQ: Pledged on the holy Quraan (Shz.MS has yet to do that to prove his claim)

SHz.MS: Goes on hunting Trips even before 'cho maasiyu' (six month lament period of Syedna Burhanuddin(RA))
SKQ: Continues somber acts to remember the benevolence of 52nd Dai(RA)

SHz.MS: Alienates mumin with his belligerent bayaans
SKQ: Starts with very few followers but has more and more mumin want to join him by his compassionate rendering of Aal-e-mohammed's ilm

SHz.MS: His abdes want us to believe that he(SMS) is unaware of the corruption and mafia-work-style of kasre-aali and kothar, hence he is not at fault for all the vices in current day dawat.

Ryt, at the same time they also believe that he is infallible and GHAIB NA JAANKAR.

SKQ: His philosophy "Islam is a religion of Rehmat, kindness, compassion and mercy. Coercion and extortion of any kind are NOT tolerated"



SHz.MS: Corrupt Amils in his reign get no punishment in his realm and infact continue in better posts.
SKQ: His philosophy "No one has immunity: every person in the Dai’s administration is accountable to the Dai, and needs to explain his/her actions
when questioned. There will be no discrimination."

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1961

Unread post by Adam » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:26 am

@SBM
Adam
If I buy all your arguments why did not SMB announced the Nuss at his 100th Birthday, a pompous ceremony where many heads of the state were in audience. We play with MANSOOS games. SMB was given Nuss by STS at a very early stage,As per your own argument it is Imam who instructs Dai to appoint next in line, Was Imam Sleep at the helm not knowing the condition of his Dai who has suffered stroke. Was not Imam should have known that time will come when SMB will be incoherent due to his medical condition.
SMB could have avoided all this by publicly announcing his NUSS at 100th Pompous Saligarh Ceremony. He had the attention of entire world and Media

Why he did or didn't do it was his divine choice. Neither you or me can answer that.
But, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA DID do Nass on Syedna Mufaddal and informed many witnesses and prepared a document, all in line with Dawat principals. So even if he didn't publicly do Nass, what he had done earlier was sufficient.
The same has happened many times in the past.

frustrated_bohra
You said rasulallah was appointed by earlier nabis/imams but as far as my understanding goes rasulallah received direct call from allah via jibrael in the cave of hira when he was alone along with ameerul momineen. Do clear my doubts.

Like your name, it's clear you lack basic Fatemi beliefs.
Very breifly, the Quran states there is a "haadi" guider in EVERY age. There was no "gap" between Prophets, example between Esa Nabi and Rasulullah SAW. Rasulullah was appointed by the Imam before him, and so on - NOT just because "they were nice people"

It is clear through your insults aimed at the 51st and 52nd Dais that this whole discussion of the 53rd is irrelevant to you.
EVEN if you see and accept KQs personality and "shaan", or accept the Nass on him. It's all meaningless because you don't follow the 51st and 52nd Dai.
You've already broken the chain.

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1962

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:25 am

true_bohra wrote:I previously also said this Mazoon Saheb TUS ko apni itni chinta nahi hogi jitni tum logo ko hai.
I am now trying to understand what is mentality of an abde, this guy true_abde posted this some times back, today he calls mazooon with names and dont respect him, I mean how can muffy trust such abdes? tomorrow these abdes will ditch muffy as well.

truth seeker100
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:54 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1963

Unread post by truth seeker100 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:51 am

Adam wrote:@SBM
Adam
If I buy all your arguments why did not SMB announced the Nuss at his 100th Birthday, a pompous ceremony where many heads of the state were in audience. We play with MANSOOS games. SMB was given Nuss by STS at a very early stage,As per your own argument it is Imam who instructs Dai to appoint next in line, Was Imam Sleep at the helm not knowing the condition of his Dai who has suffered stroke. Was not Imam should have known that time will come when SMB will be incoherent due to his medical condition.
SMB could have avoided all this by publicly announcing his NUSS at 100th Pompous Saligarh Ceremony. He had the attention of entire world and Media

Why he did or didn't do it was his divine choice.
wow no point arhuing with Adam as he thinks burhanuddin is devine.

kiranta
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:23 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1964

Unread post by kiranta » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:29 am

I cant believe in 100 billion population on planet earth, Imam(s) is choosing only one family from last 300 years to represent him.
some thing must be seriously wrong over here.

humanbeing
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1965

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:56 am

Is there any specific reference or event where SMB declared SMS as his mansoos ? Any specific majlis or waaz.
Reference to risala shareef are not fool proof as they can be doctored or manipulated.

Adam
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1966

Unread post by Adam » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:21 am

humanbeing wrote:Is there any specific reference or event where SMB declared SMS as his mansoos ? Any specific majlis or waaz.
Reference to risala shareef are not fool proof as they can be doctored or manipulated.
19 Rajab 1432 - Raudat Tahera, Mumbai, India.
AND NOW I ASK YOU THE SAME:

Is there any specific reference or event where SMB declared KQ as his mansoos ? Any specific majlis or waaz.
Reference to risala shareef are not fool proof as they can be doctored or manipulated.

???

humanbeing
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1967

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:02 am

Neah ! I don’t have reference. Niether I care ! SMS or SKQ .. I am ready to accept any one.. as long as they are honest, accountable and virtuous to be called leader.

SBM
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1968

Unread post by SBM » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:56 am

Why he did or didn't do it was his divine choice. Neither you or me can answer that.
So is it Divine for a leader so see his followers get divided further, Is is Divine that his own chosen Mazoon gets humiliated and insulted and worthy of Laanaats?
What is your definition of Divinity?

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1969

Unread post by haqniwaat » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:56 pm

Adam wrote:
humanbeing wrote:Is there any specific reference or event where SMB declared SMS as his mansoos ? Any specific majlis or waaz.
Reference to risala shareef are not fool proof as they can be doctored or manipulated.
19 Rajab 1432 - Raudat Tahera, Mumbai, India.
AND NOW I ASK YOU THE SAME:

Is there any specific reference or event where SMB declared KQ as his mansoos ? Any specific majlis or waaz.
Reference to risala shareef are not fool proof as they can be doctored or manipulated.

???
Of course, no question of hanky panky during this "proclamation" on 19th Rajab. Nobody has heard it, besides mufaddal bs' clan, and the original video shows nothing, but all of a sudden, a new video appears with sound. If he proclaimed nass in the hospital out loud, why couldn't he do it in front of thousands? Because he never declared nass on Mufaddal bs.
Summun, bukmum, umyun. And yet when his mazoon says nass was done on him, they discard it, like they discarded the mazoon and the very basis of the religion. Adding a new name in misaaq, yet doing lanat on another name in misaaq. What a circus!
One day you give misaaq with mazoon's name, and the next day you say lanat on him. A mockery of misaaq, of Imam, of Dai, of Mazoon, and of Deen itself!

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1970

Unread post by alam » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:06 pm

Adambhai
Since you disappeared from these 2 questions on another thread, I ask this to you again:

First Thanks for clarifying that you were quoting KQ's claims.

Question One for Adam: I searched and searched fatemidawat website, and this forums website, its, and malumaat.org, I cannot find an instance where Kq claims this.
Adam wrote: IF As KQ claims, 99.99% of the people hated him in Syedna's RA time.
Can you please kindly send me URL or other source from which you "quote" KQ's claims?

Question Two for Adam As long as I am trying to correct my twisted allegations. . . . .
Please at least address the other part of my "not twisted Allegation" of the misaaq breaking of those who did Fitnat against Mazoon Saheb during SMB era. Do not skirt the issue again. I'm sure you would agree that if not 99.99%, there were perhaps a few dozen or 100 people who hated Mazoon Saheb, and perhaps majority of those we from QasreAali family? Hmmm? Come now, let's try and talk facts instead of exaggeration from both sides?

Truth-Prevails
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1971

Unread post by Truth-Prevails » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:42 am

http://fatemidawat.com/news-and-events/

SKQ's message on Independence Day
15th AUGUST – INDIA’S INDEPENDENCE DAY: Syedna’s Message to the Leaders of the Nation

As India celebrates its 67th Independence Day, Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin TUS wrote a message of felicitation and prayer to notable leaders of the Nation:

“I extend sincere greetings and felicitations on this 67th Independence Day of India. Our Prophet Mohammad SAW has said “Love of your nation is an integral part of faith.” My predecessors the 51st Dai, His Holiness Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA, and 52nd Dai, His Holiness Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA, have for the past 100 years guided the Dawoodi Bohra Community on this path. Today as the 53rd Dai al-Mutlaq and Syedna of the Dawoodi Bohra Community I continue in their tradition and guide my followers, to being good, peace loving and contributing citizens of our Nation.
Thus, as we celebrate our Independence Day, I am hopeful that in the message of communal harmony, friendship, entrepreneurship and service to the nation, lies the deeper independence of all of India’s citizens; freedom from poverty, hunger, and illiteracy and a future towards prosperity, social security, and education. Our Prophet SAW has said, “All of creation are the children of God, and the most beloved to God of those children is the one who benefits his children the most.” This has been and remains my guiding ethos.
We face challenging times, but the future is full of promise and possibilities. It is with this positive spirit that we move forward in the face of adversity, striving to uphold our principles of truth, justice, equity and social service and we are confident that we will achieve success in our endeavours because of them. As we continue on this path, we will achieve the promise of our Independence.
I pray for peace, happiness and prosperity for all my fellow Indians on the 67th anniversary of our Independence.
I pray that in addition to our political freedom we strive towards freedom and independence from hunger, poverty, hatred, violence and fear. I urge all my fellow Indians to reflect and reaffirm their commitment to the ideals of freedom and free their hearts and actions from hatred and discord. Only when each and every one of us will be at peace and harmony with ourselves and with our neighbours and communities will our Nation be truly Free.
Peace is the foundation of prosperity and development. I pray that as we stay together in peace with each other that India and our neighbours in the world also find lasting peace and security.”

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1972

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:11 pm

Salaams,

Syedi Hakimuddin’s wafaat was on the 5th of Shawwal and three weeks later Syedi Hakimuddin’s enemies exhumed his paak body under false charges of heretical burial practices, and his paak body came out fresh and fragrant, the shroud still dry and clean. Syedi Luqman-ji writes in detail in his Seerat of Syedi Hakimuddin about this great mujiza (see Balagh ud duaat, pp. 286-292). Mumineen buried him again on 27th Shawwaal, which is why there are two Urs dates for the Mawla, 5th Shawwaal and 27th Shawwaal.

Mumineen should pray Khatmul Quran on the auspicious occasion of Urus of Mazoon-ud-Dawatil Gharra’s Syedi Abdul Qadir HakimuddinRA. They should also recite the qasida Mubaraka "A Hakeema Dinil-laahi Abdal Qaadiri" and also the salaam written in Dawat-ni-Zaban by Shehzadi Dr. Bazat Tahera baisaheba.

The text and audio recording of the qasida and salaam are presented on http://fatemidawat.com/instructions/.

Fiamanillah

Fatemi Dawat

Adam
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1973

Unread post by Adam » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:14 am

@Alam
Please at least address the other part of my "not twisted Allegation" of the misaaq breaking of those who did Fitnat against Mazoon Saheb during SMB era. Do not skirt the issue again. I'm sure you would agree that if not 99.99%, there were perhaps a few dozen or 100 people who hated Mazoon Saheb, and perhaps majority of those we from QasreAali family? Hmmm? Come now, let's try and talk facts instead of exaggeration from both sides?


I have already clarified that I DO NOT believe that people hated KQ as the Mazoon. It is the Qutbi Faction that believes so. They believe it was more that "perhaps a few dozen or 100 people". Refer to this video

Q&A Part 3: The hate campaign against Syedna Burhanuddin RA’s Mazoon-e-Dawat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... _Qo5cd7Cv0

Based on this, I said that IF there was a "hate campaign" against him, and Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was aware of this:

If a Dai and his Mansoos wrere aware that 99.99% of their closest companions, hudood, family and their followers hated the Mansoos and were conspiring against his life. And despite ALL this, if he still intended to appoint him as the chosen Mansoos, the only logical thing to do would be to:
- Gather the few trusted people loyal to his Mansoos and do Nass on the Mansoos, and inform them of his wishes. (As Rasulullah did in Mecca on Moulana Ali)
- Inform the others who hate his Mansoos (privately or publicly) and make them attest that they have heard or witnesses this appointment. This evidence could be used against them should they default. (As Rasulullah did. He prepared a document and made 10s of people sign on it, and then handed it over to Moulana Ali - Ref Sharh al Akhbar)
- Prepare some evidence. A document, an Audio, a video to show to the people of his appointment. If he feared for his or his Mansoos's life, he could have instructed to make this evidence public after his death.

KQ doesn't have anything!

IF As KQ claims, 99.99% of the people hated him in Syedna's RA time. Why on earth would they believe him after his death? Especially after Syedna RA publicly appointed someone else, with evidence to prove it!
Even If there wasn't another public appointment, or any witnesses or any other evidence from the other side. If they genuinely hated KQ, they still wouldn't have followed him! They would have remained lost and without a leader, and allow their beliefs of all the Nass till date to come crashing down.
Think about it. Just a bit of common sense wont hurt.
On what basis should anyone accept KQ as their Dai? ZERO.

https://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewto ... 8&p=140701

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1974

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:01 pm

Adam are you avoiding the question I have asked you more than once about the Zahir-batin claims from Taizoon?

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1975

Unread post by haqniwaat » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm

kimanumanu wrote:Adam are you avoiding the question I have asked you more than once about the Zahir-batin claims from Taizoon?
Adam will not answer because he is not aware of the campaign. The claim now is that there was no campaign. But the evidence still exists - in recorded tapes and a website which has been taken down because Taizoon was violently threatened by those who were threatened by the truth.
Even if you ask them, they will deny believing in zahir batin. Such liars and ruthless demons they are!

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1976

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:47 pm

There are strong news going round that SKQ and family have shifted to their old homes in Saifee Mahal today !! However, there is no official confirmation from them till now.

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1977

Unread post by kimanumanu » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:06 pm

haqniwaat wrote: Adam will not answer because he is not aware of the campaign. The claim now is that there was no campaign. But the evidence still exists - in recorded tapes and a website which has been taken down because Taizoon was violently threatened by those who were threatened by the truth.
Even if you ask them, they will deny believing in zahir batin. Such liars and ruthless demons they are!
Thanks to the internet web archive, even though the original website was taken down, the pages have been saved and are still available:
http://web.archive.org/web/200303070235 ... batin.com/

So no one has an excuse that they are "not aware of the campaign".

shabbir4u
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1978

Unread post by shabbir4u » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:43 pm

[quote="ghulam muhammed"]There are strong news going round that SKQ and family have shifted to their old homes in Saifee Mahal today !! However, there is no official confirmation from them till now.[

They shifted to their flat Mr.Taher at azhar bldg.

rational_guy
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:21 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1979

Unread post by rational_guy » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:28 am

DNA articles confirms stay
Attachments
DNA 26 August.jpg

rational_guy
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:21 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1980

Unread post by rational_guy » Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:21 am

Mohammediah Township Khidmat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLb-uTa9VlU

No wonder Shz Aliasger Kalimuddin was harbouring so much hatred and Jealousy towards SKQ TUS. SKQ did khidmat of Aqa Mola Burhanuddin RA with a lot of Jafeshaani. And at the end of the video, mumineen seeing the noor of SKQ TUS and in gratitude and shukr of his azeem khidmat of the 52nd Dai, they were thronging towards him and calling him Maula Maula.