Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Bohra spring
Posts: 1338
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1051

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:33 pm

salsabeel wrote:so now that we have a more clear picture of what a true dawat should be about. are people going to take advantage of the light or prefer to live in the dark? I wonder...

Sabr ...Rome was built over time....and this way I hope we can really leave the Unreformable bad apples behind...

Noah took the best of animals to ensure the future generations are better. The rest died in the floods.

I have die hard family members and I too may have to leave them behind to perish amongst the abdes . Islamic history is full of stories...there is nothing wrong in letting go of family who just will not listen.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1052

Unread post by M Taha » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:48 pm

SKQ is right person, and I think he can bring back Islam and those good old days of awliyah ullah to dawat.

I am sole decision maker in my family and being a man I decide things.

Inshallah we are all set to join SKQ.

trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1053

Unread post by trvoice » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:35 pm

Unfortunately I used to love going to masjid, but in recent years its just become a place of gossip, movies and drama's and ofcourse lots of lies. An innocent mumin talked to me about the "shanaat" of SMS the other day and was telling me how many lakh mumineen are with SMS where as they only see about 50-70 right now.
I calmly stated that this was the same situation in Karbala too, he lost colour on his face.

salsabeel
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:38 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1054

Unread post by salsabeel » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:09 pm

M Taha wrote:
Inshallah we are all set to join SKQ.
Alhamdolillah.

regarding your previous queries, you should know that it is not mandatory to do sajda to a dai, nor is it mandatory to use tiltles for his family......it should be done out of respect only if one wishes too. It is definitely not compulsory.

jungle999
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:26 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1055

Unread post by jungle999 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:18 am

Where is KQS no news of him or has given up or is he going to join muffy gang again.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1056

Unread post by M Taha » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:36 am

jungle999 wrote:Where is KQS no news of him or has given up or is he going to join muffy gang again.
it seems you just came back from jungle

read this thread bro, you might get some clue.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1057

Unread post by M Taha » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:37 am

salsabeel wrote:
M Taha wrote:
Inshallah we are all set to join SKQ.
Alhamdolillah.

regarding your previous queries, you should know that it is not mandatory to do sajda to a dai, nor is it mandatory to use tiltles for his family......it should be done out of respect only if one wishes too. It is definitely not compulsory.
Alhumdolillah

Dr Fatema
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:38 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#1058

Unread post by Dr Fatema » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:40 am

voice wrote:Instructions
Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin TUS mumineen ne irshaad farmawe chhe:

As 53rd Dai l-Mutlaq it is Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin TUS’s duty and his right to preside over namaaz of Syedna Burhanuddin Aqa RA’s janaaza mubaraka and dafan. If he is prevented from doing so, then—in order to ensure ke Syedna Burhanuddin RA na janaaza mubaraka ni behurmati naa thaai, and wahan kai hangaamo na thaai—Syedna Qutbuddin will preside over Khatmul Quran Majlis at 5pm Saturday 17th Rabiul Awwal, at Darus Sakina, Upvan, Thane (full address below). All mumineen can attend for majlis and fateha jaman.
Mumineen should maintain a dignified peace; do not engage in any form of slander or violence.
If you are threatened with violence upon your self or property, immediately contact your local police.
Mumineen should spread this message to their loved ones and everyone they know. Jaan na najaat ni waat chhe.
Darus Sakina Address Details

Darus Sakina (Madhuban Bungalow)
Pokhraine Rd No. 1, Upvan, Thane (W) 400606
(the bungalow gate is a big green one just before the Yeoor forest check naka)

GPS coordinates: 19.21842,72.95270

Directions for coming by car:

On the Eastern Express highway going towards Thane, after passing the Mulund toll station go straight, go over the first flyover, then go under the second flyover, take a left at the Cadbury factory junction, keep going straight past ‘Vartak Nagar’ until you reach Upvan, the green gate will be on your left before the Yeoor turn off.

You may call the landline number 022-25889503 if you have difficulty finding the place. Shabbir bhai Ujjaini will pick up the landline and will explain the directions to you or your driver.
Where are these people ? Are they gone under ground or they have given up their fight with SMS or are they going to accept bribe offered to them by SMS camp?

jungle999
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:26 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1059

Unread post by jungle999 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:38 am

M TAHA wrote it seems you just came back from jungle.Let me remind you that your fore father came from there plus if you are so eager to join sq why don't you open office for him so people can join that's if you have gets .all asked simple question it wasn't rude one there was no need for bad language.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1060

Unread post by M Taha » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:03 am

jungle999 wrote:M TAHA wrote it seems you just came back from jungle.Let me remind you that your fore father came from there plus if you are so eager to join sq why don't you open office for him so people can join that's if you have gets .all asked simple question it wasn't rude one there was no need for bad language.
woho Zinger, dont mess up mate :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: well your username does suggest you are from jungle....there is nothing wrong to come from jungle.

dont worry I might open a office...

tasneempati
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:44 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#1061

Unread post by tasneempati » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:56 am

Dr Fatema wrote:
voice wrote:Instructions
Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin TUS mumineen ne irshaad farmawe chhe:

As 53rd Dai l-Mutlaq it is Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin TUS’s duty and his right to preside over namaaz of Syedna Burhanuddin Aqa RA’s janaaza mubaraka and dafan. If he is prevented from doing so, then—in order to ensure ke Syedna Burhanuddin RA na janaaza mubaraka ni behurmati naa thaai, and wahan kai hangaamo na thaai—Syedna Qutbuddin will preside over Khatmul Quran Majlis at 5pm Saturday 17th Rabiul Awwal, at Darus Sakina, Upvan, Thane (full address below). All mumineen can attend for majlis and fateha jaman.
Mumineen should maintain a dignified peace; do not engage in any form of slander or violence.
If you are threatened with violence upon your self or property, immediately contact your local police.
Mumineen should spread this message to their loved ones and everyone they know. Jaan na najaat ni waat chhe.
Darus Sakina Address Details

Darus Sakina (Madhuban Bungalow)
Pokhraine Rd No. 1, Upvan, Thane (W) 400606
(the bungalow gate is a big green one just before the Yeoor forest check naka)

GPS coordinates: 19.21842,72.95270

Directions for coming by car:

On the Eastern Express highway going towards Thane, after passing the Mulund toll station go straight, go over the first flyover, then go under the second flyover, take a left at the Cadbury factory junction, keep going straight past ‘Vartak Nagar’ until you reach Upvan, the green gate will be on your left before the Yeoor turn off.

You may call the landline number 022-25889503 if you have difficulty finding the place. Shabbir bhai Ujjaini will pick up the landline and will explain the directions to you or your driver.
Where are these people ? Are they gone under ground or they have given up their fight with SMS or are they going to accept bribe offered to them by SMS camp?
Something fishy is going in both camps. Let us ee how things unfold.

tasneempati
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:44 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1062

Unread post by tasneempati » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:58 am

jungle999 wrote:Where is KQS no news of him or has given up or is he going to join muffy gang again.
Yes no one from KQ gang is active now. May be they have gone underground or going back to other camp.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1338
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1063

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:43 am

Are you ever going to fatemidawat site and finding out yourselves.

Are you not seeing the press releases , bulletins, videos yet you say you don't see activity.

Rather that seating on the perch..if you are in India go and show your support and be useful to SKQ .

What is it you want them to see do?

tasneempati
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:44 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1064

Unread post by tasneempati » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:47 am

@ Bohra Spring:: Nothing worth importance there. I doubt if they have courage to face the other camp.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1065

Unread post by M Taha » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:38 am

tasneempati wrote:@ Bohra Spring:: Nothing worth importance there. I doubt if they have courage to face the other camp.
tasneemkepati, exactly which part of website you think is not worth?

http://WWW.FATEMIDAWAT.COM

may be this PDF is worth to read
Attachments
guiding-principles-specifics-of-philosophy-and-vision.pdf
(491.29 KiB) Downloaded 315 times

Dr Fatema
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:38 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1066

Unread post by Dr Fatema » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:55 am

M Taha wrote:
tasneempati wrote:@ Bohra Spring:: Nothing worth importance there. I doubt if they have courage to face the other camp.
tasneemkepati, exactly which part of website you think is not worth?

http://WWW.FATEMIDAWAT.COM

may be this PDF is worth to read
May be this Tasneem ka pati is more busy in Tasneem than the real issue.

salsabeel
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:38 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1067

Unread post by salsabeel » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:10 pm

tasneempati wrote:@ Bohra Spring:: Nothing worth importance there. I doubt if they have courage to face the other camp.
On the website they are outlining the laws of shariat as our Nabi (SAW) claimed them to be, not as we see them now, twisted. If that is not important to you, I am not sure what would be. As to your comment about courage, apparently, the people who possess courage are the only ones with SKQ, the rest, including the blind folded as well as the fence sitters, are the ones who are scared for numerous reasons. And regarding the courage of SKQ, he is the one inviting people to the truth, to haqq, against all odds, even the safety of his life and his family, as I said before, if you dont see this as courageous, I am not sure if you know the meaning of the word.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1068

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:49 pm

I have recently started reading posts on this forum. To give some background, we considered ourselves mukhlis mumineen and devout followers of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and his teachings. We are US citizens and responsible members of our community. However in the couple years preceding SMB RA wafat, we have found the message coming from Mufaddal Bhaisaheb to be extremely radical and quite removed from the basic tenets of our faith (come on! Maa Fatema who was going to douse hellfire for ALL of Moula Ali's shias is going to hold back from a few non-roti making women?!!!) The examples were plentiful and every time we went to the masjid and listened to one of his off-script remarks, we realized that we would end up accepting an ill-informed ("call centers and IT are new fashions and a scourge among the city populations!") and crazed man as our leader. We started feeling distanced from our community which was turning a deaf ear to the emotional tirades by this mad man or making excuses for it. It is as if they did not hear what he was actually saying. We accepted Qutbuddin Moula based on the simple logic that the nass drama in Raudat Tahera had never fooled us and when in doubt, it would be right to accept the word of Moula Burhanuddin's second-in-command for 50 years. In all our encounters with him, he struck us as an intelligent, no-nonsense person. Surely he had nothing of a worldly nature to gain from this David vs. Goliath battle. He was definitely compelled to reveal the truth for the sake of truth alone and that is why he was taking on the establishment with all it's wealth and crooke- politician backed power! All those crooked politicians are being paraded in pictures on various websites meant to highlight Mufaddal Bhaisaheb's "shaan."

To come to the present. I find that there are hundreds of like-minded people who are reaching out to us and share our disenchantment with the current majority leadership. The only difference is that while we have stood up and come out in the open with regards to our opinions and faith, others are still fearful of social boycott. Let me share a secret. The horribleness of social boycott is overrated. A majority of those you leave behind will envy you your courage to escape the bonds that are still holding them back. You will find out who your true friends are. They will continue to speak with you. There are many who will hate you but as Churchill said, if you have enemies it means that you have stood up for something, sometime in your life. I call all the fence-sitters to move past your fear. Act now and everything will work out over time. It won't be easy, I guarantee you that. But it will be worth it. This is your opportunity to create a community of thinking, fearless people. People who refuse to live in fear and a total lack of logic in their observation of religion. Wake up! Act!

think_for_yourself
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1069

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:34 pm

tasneempati wrote:
jungle999 wrote:Where is KQS no news of him or has given up or is he going to join muffy gang again.
Yes no one from KQ gang is active now. May be they have gone underground or going back to other camp.
Please Tasneempati (incidentally - my sympathies for Tasneem) no one has gone underground. We are forging ahead. For you to guess, for us to see.

Mkenya
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1070

Unread post by Mkenya » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:51 pm

think_for_yourself: A very well written post!

Baraat has always been used as a lever to enforce adherence and compliance. For most Bohras the Dai is the 'Mai-Baap'. Their whole life; social, communal, business, cultural and so on revolves around the Dai and his day-to-day utterings. For tens of thousands it is unthinkable to even contemplate disavowing SMS, let alone choosing between the two. These people are so programed that they do araz to the Dai for all occasions from womb to tomb. One has only to read the posts on this forum, mentions in the media and the massive deluge of them in Mumbai to gauge how fervent are these people. The only sources of enlightenment for them are the local Amils/Sheikhs, bayanas, waaz, endless videos, mojizas, daily jaman, etc. It is wishful thinking on the part of us Reformists that there is some magic wand with which we can effectively initiate change. Beware, who are we trying to change? Do these people want change? What can we offer them?

The majority of Bohras are destined to wallow in their beliefs whatever comes. They are basically a low-abiding majority, subservient, pious in their own way, not worldly, not very well read and resigned to their lot. 51, 52, 53a and 53b all have a track record of converting and usurping the piety of Bohras to their financial advantage. This charade will go on for ever. Like we have heard in Waaz: "Aa dawat nu safinu to kayamat na din tak tartu rahese. Dushmano (Peerbhoy, Karimjee, Contractor, Engineer, ad nosium) sagla halal thei gaya, bhikhari thei gaya, namo nishan nathi rahyu".

zinger
Posts: 2040
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1071

Unread post by zinger » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:13 am

SBM wrote:I agree with Br Abde53 and I also like what I see at Fatemidawat.com and I do hope once SKQ has gained their rightful rights they will follow thru with their promises.
If they do implement what they are publishing, may be I will join the cult ( :P ) on active basis and give up my SUSHI (sunni-shia) status :)
In seriousness, I think what I read in Br Abde53 post, I am encouraged and hope that die hard Abdes see the same light as Br Abde53 is seeing.
One more question to Adam and Zinger
Do you agree with the positions of SKQ and their manifesto please entertain (as you guys put it about his forum) us on your thoughts about these guidelines put out by SKQ.

they sound like some extremely healthy, progressive, broad-minded and well-intended points to hopefully clean up what is going on just now. this is my position

As for entertaining you, i suggest you look up the entertainment section in your local newspaper and head there. i have neither the time nor the inclination to keeping you entertained.

and by all means, stick to your SUSHI status. it is best suited to you.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1072

Unread post by M Taha » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:03 am


notruthinreligion
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:42 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1073

Unread post by notruthinreligion » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:19 am

Posted this as a separate topic, posting here to reach out to a larger audience.

The article is based on my personal belief, faith and experience. Please excuse if it seems irrelevant. Thanks in advance for reading.

I have been a faithful follower of the Dawoodi Bohra faith for most of my life. Always assumed the Dai's infallibility and as a result worshiped every word uttered by him and his representatives. Destiny plays a big part in one's life. Through an unplanned series of events, I joined a multinational company when I was 18 and out of the blue, I was now exposed to people belonging to different faiths, cultures and sensibilities. Although steadfast and firm in my beliefs, I began to get intrigued by how others lived their lives, what influence culture, money, education, religion, etc had on their lives.

Few years later, through another series of unlikely events, I happened to meet a childhood acquaintance over a weekend. Catching up, he brought up the conversation of how important it was for SMB to appoint SMS as the heir apparent in front of the entire jamaat. Believe it or not, until that point, I had no idea of the possible divide and the contention issue. Although my faith was strong, the conversation got me interested and I now wanted to know more. Having read several articles, forums and blogs for a few years in combination with exposure to different cultures I had through my work experience, the amazing charade became more and more obvious every day.

Every practice of the Dai and Kothar for about a century now; on an objective and unbiased analysis presents an obvious picture of extortion and oppression. Over the last century there have been several improvements in education, science, media and communication. A large proportion of the Bohra population today are educated people; people who can differentiate black from white and choose between right and wrong. Logically speaking, the crowds and hoards of people believing in the Kothar and its schemes should have decreased or perished with time. Additionally, rebellions from time to time have brought to light the extent of devastation that the administrators of our community have caused to humanity. Yet, there is no decrease in the faith that the Dai inspires from the community. Why?

From time to time, on this forum and otherwise, one hears people talk about the community. There are few who reason, while there are tons who are strictly governed by blind faith. Each resorts to calling the other all sorts of names, popularly 'brain dead abdes' & 'munafekeens'. Come to think of it, neither 'the abde' nor 'the munafekeen' is wrong. It is incorrect to assume that intelligence can/should influence faith in general. Faith and trust are characteristics that are deep rooted in human DNA. An offspring knows instinctively to trust its parents. When a child is tossed up in the air, the natural reaction is a smile and not fear. We learn very early in our lives to have trust and faith in our elders. But, what drives this faith in religion and why does it override intelligence?

The faith and the following of the so called 'abdes' stems from a variety of factors. Kids in our community are enrolled into 'madresas' at a very early age and children are fed concepts of the Dai's infallibility. These are intelligent human beings who have been influenced at a very early stage in life. Think about the lessons that they have learnt; entrance to heaven is at the helm of the Dai's tears and Dua, attending and listening to Dai's sermons takes precedence over examinations, business, health and age, wajebaat and all charity donated needs to be routed through the Kothar, your religion does not entertain questioning of any nature, the Quran that is the key to your religion cannot be truly interpreted without the wisdom of the Dai, just follow- do not ask. Off course one would argue that an intelligent human being would question these atrocious teachings, but these are beings who have been systematically conditioned, such that their intelligence is negated when it comes to religion. There are also ones at the fence that generally believe that the Kothar is corrupt while the Dai is either oblivious to the truth or is waiting for the right time to take action.

Reading folks arguing on this forum and otherwise is heart breaking. The unnecessary calling of names shows the deplorable state of affairs we have reached in our hearts and minds. I often read discussions on threads go haywire and people attack the individual rather than discuss the thought with all kinds of foul language. Surely,no religion advocates this kind of name calling. I agree that is heart wrenching to watch folks giving in to blasphemy and indulgence, but one has to understand that they are driven by their own belief and conviction. They have a faith, and they believe strongly in it, it is no different from someone who follows another religion totally. No matter how much you try to convince them or reason with them, its completely futile, because they are driven by their faith. Unless, they get a call from their inner self, everything one does to open their eyes, seems like an act of oppression to them. In the mean time, demeaning them or trying to belittle them is only an act that can take you away from them.

I know as well as anyone else what it feels like. I have a family and I have friends within the community. My family understand my perspective but cant put up with it. When they happened to read a previous post of mine (on this forum), they were in shock and disbelief! My mother stopped talking to me for a while and tried to persuade me to return to the 'right' (SMS) track. My friends, who are firm believers hold all kinds of grudges against me just because I did not participate in all the festivities surrounding the nass, the the drama surrounding SMB's death and the celebration of the of SMS' milad. I haven't even yet told them about my convictions! Just the fact that I don't celebrate SMS, is enough for them to condemn me. These are people that I have grown up with, people who understand who I am and accept me as a man with a kind heart and an above average intelligence. I am somebody that they have deep emotional connect with, yet are willing to forego me for the love of a maula, a man who they barely know about and are willing to worship in spite of the evident blasphemy.

Is it right for me to hate them back? Condemn their faith, their beliefs, because they don't concur with mine. May be it is, but how about I talk things within the realms of religion that are completely undisputed? Promote peace, harmony, service, tolerance, love and friendship among fellowmen. SKQ may or may not be on the right path, only time will tell. In all likelihood, both clans will settle peacefully in the near future with their own followings. It is important that we as human beings do not let human relations be forgotten and destroyed in the name of religion. No matter where we may be tomorrow, we were brothers and sisters until yesterday. Let's try to not forget that and at least be respectful to one another.

maddy
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:12 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1074

Unread post by maddy » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:52 am

Can any one tell who is appointed as Mazoon and Mukasir for SKQ camp ????????

shehzada
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1075

Unread post by shehzada » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:13 pm

maddy wrote:Can any one tell who is appointed as Mazoon and Mukasir for SKQ camp ????????

and who is actually running the Muffi camp? is it his brother SQJ or is it his wife (and her family) who are actually pulling the strings?

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1076

Unread post by voice » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:25 pm

notruthinreligion wrote:Posted this as a separate topic, posting here to reach out to a larger audience.

The article is based on my personal belief, faith and experience. Please excuse if it seems irrelevant. Thanks in advance for reading.

I have been a faithful follower of the Dawoodi Bohra faith for most of my life. Always assumed the Dai's infallibility and as a result worshiped every word uttered by him and his representatives. Destiny plays a big part in one's life. Through an unplanned series of events, I joined a multinational company when I was 18 and out of the blue, I was now exposed to people belonging to different faiths, cultures and sensibilities. Although steadfast and firm in my beliefs, I began to get intrigued by how others lived their lives, what influence culture, money, education, religion, etc had on their lives.

Few years later, through another series of unlikely events, I happened to meet a childhood acquaintance over a weekend. Catching up, he brought up the conversation of how important it was for SMB to appoint SMS as the heir apparent in front of the entire jamaat. Believe it or not, until that point, I had no idea of the possible divide and the contention issue. Although my faith was strong, the conversation got me interested and I now wanted to know more. Having read several articles, forums and blogs for a few years in combination with exposure to different cultures I had through my work experience, the amazing charade became more and more obvious every day.

Every practice of the Dai and Kothar for about a century now; on an objective and unbiased analysis presents an obvious picture of extortion and oppression. Over the last century there have been several improvements in education, science, media and communication. A large proportion of the Bohra population today are educated people; people who can differentiate black from white and choose between right and wrong. Logically speaking, the crowds and hoards of people believing in the Kothar and its schemes should have decreased or perished with time. Additionally, rebellions from time to time have brought to light the extent of devastation that the administrators of our community have caused to humanity. Yet, there is no decrease in the faith that the Dai inspires from the community. Why?

From time to time, on this forum and otherwise, one hears people talk about the community. There are few who reason, while there are tons who are strictly governed by blind faith. Each resorts to calling the other all sorts of names, popularly 'brain dead abdes' & 'munafekeens'. Come to think of it, neither 'the abde' nor 'the munafekeen' is wrong. It is incorrect to assume that intelligence can/should influence faith in general. Faith and trust are characteristics that are deep rooted in human DNA. An offspring knows instinctively to trust its parents. When a child is tossed up in the air, the natural reaction is a smile and not fear. We learn very early in our lives to have trust and faith in our elders. But, what drives this faith in religion and why does it override intelligence?

The faith and the following of the so called 'abdes' stems from a variety of factors. Kids in our community are enrolled into 'madresas' at a very early age and children are fed concepts of the Dai's infallibility. These are intelligent human beings who have been influenced at a very early stage in life. Think about the lessons that they have learnt; entrance to heaven is at the helm of the Dai's tears and Dua, attending and listening to Dai's sermons takes precedence over examinations, business, health and age, wajebaat and all charity donated needs to be routed through the Kothar, your religion does not entertain questioning of any nature, the Quran that is the key to your religion cannot be truly interpreted without the wisdom of the Dai, just follow- do not ask. Off course one would argue that an intelligent human being would question these atrocious teachings, but these are beings who have been systematically conditioned, such that their intelligence is negated when it comes to religion. There are also ones at the fence that generally believe that the Kothar is corrupt while the Dai is either oblivious to the truth or is waiting for the right time to take action.

Reading folks arguing on this forum and otherwise is heart breaking. The unnecessary calling of names shows the deplorable state of affairs we have reached in our hearts and minds. I often read discussions on threads go haywire and people attack the individual rather than discuss the thought with all kinds of foul language. Surely,no religion advocates this kind of name calling. I agree that is heart wrenching to watch folks giving in to blasphemy and indulgence, but one has to understand that they are driven by their own belief and conviction. They have a faith, and they believe strongly in it, it is no different from someone who follows another religion totally. No matter how much you try to convince them or reason with them, its completely futile, because they are driven by their faith. Unless, they get a call from their inner self, everything one does to open their eyes, seems like an act of oppression to them. In the mean time, demeaning them or trying to belittle them is only an act that can take you away from them.

I know as well as anyone else what it feels like. I have a family and I have friends within the community. My family understand my perspective but cant put up with it. When they happened to read a previous post of mine (on this forum), they were in shock and disbelief! My mother stopped talking to me for a while and tried to persuade me to return to the 'right' (SMS) track. My friends, who are firm believers hold all kinds of grudges against me just because I did not participate in all the festivities surrounding the nass, the the drama surrounding SMB's death and the celebration of the of SMS' milad. I haven't even yet told them about my convictions! Just the fact that I don't celebrate SMS, is enough for them to condemn me. These are people that I have grown up with, people who understand who I am and accept me as a man with a kind heart and an above average intelligence. I am somebody that they have deep emotional connect with, yet are willing to forego me for the love of a maula, a man who they barely know about and are willing to worship in spite of the evident blasphemy.

Is it right for me to hate them back? Condemn their faith, their beliefs, because they don't concur with mine. May be it is, but how about I talk things within the realms of religion that are completely undisputed? Promote peace, harmony, service, tolerance, love and friendship among fellowmen. SKQ may or may not be on the right path, only time will tell. In all likelihood, both clans will settle peacefully in the near future with their own followings. It is important that we as human beings do not let human relations be forgotten and destroyed in the name of religion. No matter where we may be tomorrow, we were brothers and sisters until yesterday. Let's try to not forget that and at least be respectful to one another.
Great words, may Allah subhanahu help all of us to implement it.....

"It is important that we as human beings do not let human relations be forgotten and destroyed in the name of religion. No matter where we may be tomorrow, we were brothers and sisters until yesterday. Let's try to not forget that and at least be respectful to one another".

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1077

Unread post by alam » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:50 pm

notruthinreligion wrote:
Reading folks arguing on this forum and otherwise is heart breaking. The unnecessary calling of names shows the deplorable state of affairs we have reached in our hearts and minds. I often read discussions on threads go haywire and people attack the individual rather than discuss the thought with all kinds of foul language. Surely,no religion advocates this kind of name calling. I agree that is heart wrenching to watch folks giving in to blasphemy and indulgence, but one has to understand that they are driven by their own belief and conviction. They have a faith, and they believe strongly in it, it is no different from someone who follows another religion totally. No matter how much you try to convince them or reason with them, its completely futile, because they are driven by their faith. Unless, they get a call from their inner self, everything one does to open their eyes, seems like an act of oppression to them. In the mean time, demeaning them or trying to belittle them is only an act that can take you away from them.
Thank you Bhai who claims to have a name "notruthinreligion". You share much wisdom and truth in your words.

I am humbled by these comments. I too have on occasion been guilty of Demonizing.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1078

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:51 pm

Mkenya wrote:think_for_yourself: A very well written post!
The majority of Bohras are destined to wallow in their beliefs whatever comes. They are basically a low-abiding majority, subservient, pious in their own way, not worldly, not very well read and resigned to their lot. 51, 52, 53a and 53b all have a track record of converting and usurping the piety of Bohras to their financial advantage. This charade will go on for ever. Like we have heard in Waaz: "Aa dawat nu safinu to kayamat na din tak tartu rahese. Dushmano (Peerbhoy, Karimjee, Contractor, Engineer, ad nosium) sagla halal thei gaya, bhikhari thei gaya, namo nishan nathi rahyu".
MKenya I was calling on those disillusioned by Mufaddal Bhaisaheb and who are inclined to believe Syedna Qutbuddin, to act on their instincts/beliefs. I would hardly do that if I believed that Syedna Qutbuddin was out to rob everyone of their money :roll: .

I am convinced that he is the true Da'i and his dawat will set a high bar for integrity in its administration. I also believe that the family has integrity and intellect and committing daylight robbery with ITS numbered envelopes is not their style...Also, they are smart enough to recognize that their followers would by default have to be among the more fearless and outspoken members of the Bohra Community. Even if they were inclined to pull any Muffy-like tricks, they'd hesitate!

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1079

Unread post by alam » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:56 pm

think_for_yourself wrote:I have recently started reading posts on this forum. To give some background, we considered ourselves mukhlis mumineen and devout followers of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and his teachings. We are US citizens and responsible members of our community. However in the couple years preceding SMB RA wafat, we have found the message coming from Mufaddal Bhaisaheb to be extremely radical and quite removed from the basic tenets of our faith (come on! Maa Fatema who was going to douse hellfire for ALL of Moula Ali's shias is going to hold back from a few non-roti making women?!!!) The examples were plentiful and every time we went to the masjid and listened to one of his off-script remarks, we realized that we would end up accepting an ill-informed ("call centers and IT are new fashions and a scourge among the city populations!") and crazed man as our leader. We started feeling distanced from our community which was turning a deaf ear to the emotional tirades by this mad man or making excuses for it. It is as if they did not hear what he was actually saying. We accepted Qutbuddin Moula based on the simple logic that the nass drama in Raudat Tahera had never fooled us and when in doubt, it would be right to accept the word of Moula Burhanuddin's second-in-command for 50 years. In all our encounters with him, he struck us as an intelligent, no-nonsense person. Surely he had nothing of a worldly nature to gain from this David vs. Goliath battle. He was definitely compelled to reveal the truth for the sake of truth alone and that is why he was taking on the establishment with all it's wealth and crooke- politician backed power! All those crooked politicians are being paraded in pictures on various websites meant to highlight Mufaddal Bhaisaheb's "shaan."

To come to the present. I find that there are hundreds of like-minded people who are reaching out to us and share our disenchantment with the current majority leadership. The only difference is that while we have stood up and come out in the open with regards to our opinions and faith, others are still fearful of social boycott. Let me share a secret. The horribleness of social boycott is overrated. A majority of those you leave behind will envy you your courage to escape the bonds that are still holding them back. You will find out who your true friends are. They will continue to speak with you. There are many who will hate you but as Churchill said, if you have enemies it means that you have stood up for something, sometime in your life. I call all the fence-sitters to move past your fear. Act now and everything will work out over time. It won't be easy, I guarantee you that. But it will be worth it. This is your opportunity to create a community of thinking, fearless people. People who refuse to live in fear and a total lack of logic in their observation of religion. Wake up! Act!

Spoken like someone who has jumped the fence over to SKQ and speaks from courage and experience.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1338
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

#1080

Unread post by Bohra spring » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:04 pm

We need such motivation thank you t4u