Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

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questions
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:11 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#271

Unread post by questions » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:25 pm

Muffy bhee fraud hay aur qutbi camp bhee - both are there to safeguard their own vested interests - anyone with an iota of sense will get out of this shirk-filled cult as soon as possible. Study the quran and prophet muhamamad (SAW) life on their own. Its not rocket science - people stop being infantilized .

Another part of me wants the abdes to stay in whatever camp they want to and be subject ed to double the exorbitant taxes, as now each camp has less sheep to slaughter to maintain their yazidi lifestyles. only then will the masses revolt !

Sceptical
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#272

Unread post by Sceptical » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:28 pm

ghulam-e-ali wrote:And yeah, In one of his so called philosophies he said that Sajdah must be done only to allah.
i didn't find that in the "philosphy" section (maybe I misread or need glasses...)
On the contrary, he explains on the main page that Sajda is a sign of respect/allegiance for Dai and his Mansoos.

ghulam-e-ali
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:52 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#273

Unread post by ghulam-e-ali » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:32 pm

There was a time when the religion was in lot of trouble and so our beloved Imams had to live a quiet life. Their followers also lived a quiet life. But with time, religion progressed and so did we. Now we, the followers of ALI, by God`s grace have become rich and so did Dai-ul-Mutlaq. What`s the problem if he travels in jet? And I`ve seen so many bohras who are poor and they are provided money for doing business. They are provided money for repair of their houses. They are provided daily meals. They are even given free vehicles and jobs in jamaat. If our Dai-ul-Mutlaq wants to alleviate the standard of living of the community then whats wrong in that.

layman
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:08 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#274

Unread post by layman » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:37 pm

ghulam-e-ali wrote:And all those who are claiming that why didnt Syedna Tahir Saifuddin RA or Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA mentioned Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS in any of their sermons, then let me clear it out.. My family has been serving dawat from like 80-90 years.. And my grandparents have seen that Mufaddal Maula was one of the most liked grandchild of Tahir Saifi maula.. That was one of the reason why he conferred the title of "Aali Qadar" upon him.. And we knew this even before nass was conferred upon him..
Do you know what aali qadr means? its the day mufaddal saifuddin was born and the adad of that date comes to be known as aali qadr, Its not something great or a rutba that youre giving so much importance to.
You must ask your family about SKQ, how close and loved he was to STS. You know how importance of a rutba is of Mazoon? You trust a person who has been trusted by the Syedna who appointed him or a person who suddenly claims through text messages when the Syedna suffered a stroke and people havent heard him speak a word since then?

layman
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:08 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#275

Unread post by layman » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:45 pm

ghulam-e-ali wrote:There was a time when the religion was in lot of trouble and so our beloved Imams had to live a quiet life. Their followers also lived a quiet life. But with time, religion progressed and so did we. Now we, the followers of ALI, by God`s grace have become rich and so did Dai-ul-Mutlaq. What`s the problem if he travels in jet? And I`ve seen so many bohras who are poor and they are provided money for doing business. They are provided money for repair of their houses. They are provided daily meals. They are even given free vehicles and jobs in jamaat. If our Dai-ul-Mutlaq wants to alleviate the standard of living of the community then whats wrong in that.
Its like when we as indians get annoyed at the ministers who use our tax money to go on useless foreign trips, Mufaddal saifuddin has been doing the same. He can travel as much as wants, but then dont exploit the bohras by taking money atleast twice a week plus all the high rised wajebaats when the Islamic law is a few percent of your savings. See the Dalai Lama, hindus priests, jain monks, parsi dastoors and the catholic father jesuits, they have more money than the bohra community and some faiths are bigger in size as well as monetary wise, so those monks travel in private jets? do those monks go to hunt thrice a year when their father or another close monk of that stature is sick and in the ICU of a hospital? do these monks exploit money of their followers?
Think about it, its a life of simplicity, however the world changes Allah and his Prophet have taught us to be simple and not spend excess money and live in luxurious lifestyles. You want to go have a look at the bohras in borivali, andheri slums, dharavi slums, and many other clusters in mumbai alone? forget about other parts of the world. Be human!

Jamali
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#276

Unread post by Jamali » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:47 pm

Ghulam-e-Ali;

I am not advocating for the Mazoon either. I agree why wait for 2 years till his death, to break this out. However Lets remember he did mention that he wanted the 52nd Dai to get well and make things right. That might be a logical answer or it might not be. However you have to also understand that ever since the Nass on Muffadal Maula there has been issues in the royal family. In April 2013 Hindustan Times wrote an article of conflict in the Royal Family with regard to the 53rd Daiship. Maybe not too public then, but there was discontent within the Royal family since then. Its been stated that Muffadal Maula had been trying to get rid of Mazoon since his Nass. Now a newspaper could not write something to be found true 9 months LATER? This again proves that the Royal family was well aware of the discontent between Muffadal Maula and Mazoon during the lifetime of the 52nd Dai. Now my question is this...if this was the case why didnt the 52nd Dai not do anything about it? Lets face it...If I appoint a successor and my second in command is discontent; why not remove him? Nobody said or did anything? WHY? Muffadal Maula was the closest to the 52nd Dai. Why couldnt he convince his father to bring Mazoon in check? We all know the love of 52nd Dais love for his father Syedna Taher Saiffuddin... Would that be going against what his father wanted???

LFT
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:55 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#277

Unread post by LFT » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:48 pm

I dont know who will win but this fight will damage our community's reputation and harm the normal mumin's life a lot - esp in Pakistan. The open website and videos with sajdas are all the proof that the Taliban are waiting for. The fact that the family doesnt care two hoots about that is reason enough to leave.

Thanks to SKQ, SMS will never have the same emotional hold over bohras as earlier dais had. I firmly think that majority of bohras are in a state of inertia but not blind - i guess only time will tell.

This is a great opportunity to leave this cult forever. Oh Allah, grant me the strength.

Nietzsche
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:14 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#278

Unread post by Nietzsche » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:50 pm

You people are choosing between Hitler and Stalin.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#279

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:58 pm

Hitler and Stalin fighting each other is actually great news.

layman
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:08 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#280

Unread post by layman » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:10 pm

Talk on facts dont talk on what youve been made to believe. If you go by facts, evidence, etc SKQ is on Haqq. He has more ilm than any of these clowns in tthe muffy camp,
Just thinking: Mufaddal saifuddin is telling people to pray laanat, make fun and animated pictures have been going around, all the ugly things he is doing where on the other side SKQ hasnt spoken bad, no laanats (he can do the same as its the same for him) no threats, hes fighting a clean battle. This is where Haqq is. Can a Dai or a person of that stature use rude language and words such as "kutra" , leave your wife (hes breaking families), no education for women (only serve the house and make rotis) come on! A dai doesnt say such things, if he gets Imaams ilham he wouldnt say such things.


Jamali
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#282

Unread post by Jamali » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:03 pm

For all those watching the effigy burn; Until 3 days ago..he was your Mazoon, the second highest seat of Fatemi Dawat. He was appointed by Your 52nd Dai who could not make mistakes in this world. Isnt this the irony of this world...:) How stupid can people be? He has tried to maintain decorum. Hasnt mentioned any Laanat to anyone on Mufty side, has produced evidence to back his claim. Rather than proving his claim wrong, rather than proving the appointment of your true Dai, you resort to this....:) Sometimes I really wonder if you have respect for Imam Ali, for Imam Hussein, for Islam for that matter. I wonder this is what they taught you in your sermons....Is this how you resolve issues?

Humsafar
Posts: 2519
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#283

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:04 pm

After 52 cards, there are always two jokers, and here we have them, Muffadal and Khuzema. As far as jokers go, they are providing good entertainment only if it was not so tragic. They are making a mockery of the community. It is a matter of great shame that these spoilt royals cannot sort out their issues by themselves, quietly in private. They have to make a public display of their greed and rapacity. The fact is neither of them is interested in Bohras and their welfare. It's nothing but power grab. Their greed has made them so blind and selfish that they are ready to take down the community with them, and splitting it into two if need be.

This whole ugly drama is disgusting, and takes away any pretense they had about the so-called sanctity and holiness of Dawat. Splits in Ismaili sects have happened before also and more or less for the same reasons. And the losers in all of them have always been the people, the common and clueless believers who end up being fodder for either this camp or that camp. As if the shia-sunni, 12er-ismaili, dawoodi-sulemani etc etc splits were not enough now we have a Muffadal-Khuzema divide. And gullible fools are already drawing the lines in the sand, and raising battle cries. Disgusting. Have they learned nothing from history?

And no matter what the Khuzema fanboys say, the dude has come too late to the party - both as a claimant to the 53rd daiship and also as an enlightened and progressive leader. People have already commented on this and I agree with them. Khuzema has lived off this parasitic and exploitative regime for 50 years, now that he wants to be the top honcho he's become all enlightened. The argument that he has always lived a simple life or his family used to help the poor and all that teary stuff is not going to wash. His children are Harvard educated, well well that's impressive. But they too have been privileged kids and owe their education to the blood and sweat of common bohras. Even so, what have they done with their education? Written books maybe, while the community was being taken for a royal ride. The hypocrisy in all this is really astounding. And I can't believe that people here can still find reasons to defend this privileged bunch.

Especially Khuzema who in the last 50 years as Mazoon with all his love for simplicity and fairness did not even lift a finger to protest against what was going on, or in anyway helped the reform movement (great point Hussain_KSA). He looked on silently while the dawat became a draconian institution and community was turned into a cult. As a deputy to the Dai he must share the blame of what has happened to the community. His knowledge and wisdom maybe unparalleled but it was not used when the community needed it. Changing gears at this stage, and especially after the 52nd is dead, only exposes him as a shameless opportunist. He has no credibility left to make grand promises.

In all this, there is the elephant in the room which nobody is addressing (except of course for anajmi and a couple of others): Where in the God's name is the Imam? Shouldn't all this be happening with his express wish and command? Now that the 52nd is dead, and the dead do not speak, shouldn't the Imam step in and pick up his candidate? Or are we to believe that there is no Imam? Or perhaps never was. It's all a myth as Taher Saiffudin once inadvertently claimed. This ugly episode calls the whole doctrine of Imamat into question - and these jokers, blissfully unaware, are dancing the dance of Nass. Does anybody care? Only the fools do, it seems. They are rooting for their guy as if this was some kind of a bloody boxing match. If they had any sense, they should all stand on the sidelines and watch the fun. Let the two of them duke it out, and if possible let the Imam come and be the refree.

Asking people to support this camp or that camp is ridiculous. It is not for people to decide who the dai should be, it never was. And if it is to be made the people's business, which I would prefer and which unfortunately would flush the doctrine of Imamat down the tube, then I would go for a third candidate, away from this parasitic and pathetic royal family.

I don't know what the official reformist position is going to be, but personally I'm tempted to put this bunch in a missionary position. :)

Jamali
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#284

Unread post by Jamali » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:15 pm

Humsafar wrote:After 52 cards, there are always two jokers, and here we have them, Muffadal and Khuzema. As far as jokers go, they are providing good entertainment only if it was not so tragic. They are making a mockery of the community. It is a matter of great shame that these spoilt royals cannot sort out their issues by themselves, quietly in private. They have to make a public display of their greed and rapacity. The fact is neither of them is interested in Bohras and their welfare. It's nothing but power grab. Their greed has made them so blind and selfish that they are ready to take down the community with them, and splitting it into two if need be.

This whole ugly drama is disgusting, and takes away any pretense they had about the so-called sanctity and holiness of Dawat. Splits in Ismaili sects have happened before also and more or less for the same reasons. And the losers in all of them have always been the people, the common and clueless believers who end up being fodder for either this camp or that camp. As if the shia-sunni, 12er-ismaili, dawoodi-sulemani etc etc splits were not enough now we have a Muffadal-Khuzema divide. And gullible fools are already drawing the lines in the sand, and raising battle cries. Disgusting. Have they learned nothing from history?

And no matter what the Khuzema fanboys say, the dude has come too late to the party - both as a claimant to the 53rd daiship and also as an enlightened and progressive leader. People have already commented on this and I agree with them. Khuzema has lived off this parasitic and exploitative regime for 50 years, now that he wants to be the top honcho he's become all enlightened. The argument that he has always lived a simple life or his family used to help the poor and all that teary stuff is not going to wash. His children are Harvard educated, well well that's impressive. But they too have been privileged kids and owe their education to the blood and sweat of common bohras. Even so, what have they done with their education? Written books, may be while the community was being taken for a royal ride. The hypocrisy in all this is really astounding. And I can't believe that people here can still find reasons to defend this privileged bunch.

Especially Khuzema who in the last 50 years as Mazoon with all his love for simplicity and fairness did not even lift a finger to protest against what was going on, or in anyway helped the reform movement (great point Hussain_KSA). He looked on silently while the dawat became a draconian institution and community was turned into a cult. As a deputy to the Dai he must share the blame of what has happened to the community. His knowledge and wisdom maybe unparalleled but it was not used when the community needed it. Changing gears at this stage, and especially after the 52nd is dead, only exposes him as a shameless opportunist. He has no credibility left to make grand promises.

In all this, there is the elephant in the room which nobody is addressing (except of course for anajmi and a couple of others): Where in the God's name is the Imam? Shouldn't all this be happening with his express wish and command? Now that the 52nd is dead, and the dead do not speak, shouldn't the Imam step in and pick up his candidate? Or are we to believe that there is no Imam? Or perhaps never was. It's all a myth as Taher Saiffudin once inadvertently claimed. This ugly episode calls the whole doctrine of Imamat into question - and these jokers, blissfully unaware, are dancing the dance of Nass. Does anybody care? Only the fools do, it seems. They are rooting for their guy as if this was some kind of a bloody boxing match. If they had any sense, they should all stand on the sidelines and watch the fun. Let the two of them duke it out, and if possible let the Imam come and be the refree.

Asking people to support this camp or that camp is ridiculous. It is not for people to decide who the dai should be, it never was. And if it is to be made the people's business, which I would prefer and which unfortunately would flush the doctrine of Imamat down the tube, then I would go for a third candidate, away from this parasitic and pathetic royal family.

I don't know what the official reformist position is going to be, but personally I'm tempted to put them in a missionary position. :)

Well Said....Couldnt have said it better. I think people should take this moment to analyze themselves. You have the opportunity to change and the tools have always been there....You have Ahlull Bayt, you have the teachings of Imam Ali and Hussein and best of all you have the Holy Quran and teachings of the Prophets. Religion was never complex...It has been made complex by us ourselves. The basic tools were out there...You dont need to be led to determine your destiny. Our Prophets and Imams led by example and the Almighty Allah has given you the basic guide to life that is the Holy Quran...Do you seriously think you need someone else????

canadian
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#285

Unread post by canadian » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:27 pm

"Farman e aali che :
Koi bhi Huzurala TUS na Akhbar ya Dawat na related koi bhi message ya photos, sms, ya whatsapp, ya KOI bhi shakelat si na mokle.
Official msg Alvazara ​at ya ITS si mokalwama awse.
KOI EK BHI MUMIN AA FARMAAN NI MUKHALAFAT NA KARE."

Received the above email from ITS (muffy camp).

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#286

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:28 pm

AMAFHH wrote:Hussain_Ksa
the wife name is written on Wikipedia?
Good this forum is being monitored by Kothar. The name is added now. Some people may confirm that the time I posted the link her name was not mentioned there.

Biradar
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#287

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:29 pm

Jamali wrote:Ghulam-e-Ali;

I am not advocating for the Mazoon either. I agree why wait for 2 years till his death, to break this out. However Lets remember he did mention that he wanted the 52nd Dai to get well and make things right. That might be a logical answer or it might not be.
The answer to this question is simple: even though the mazoon sahib was waiting for SMB to get better and set things right, he was told to conceal the nass till the appropriate time came. Following the example of the eighth da'i, Sayedna Hussain bin S. Ali bin Mohammad al Waalid, he choose to wait till the previous da'i had passed away.

If we think about the whole situation, we will notice that in the two years since the brain stroke, NOT ONCE, have we heard SMB speak. Not only that, he rarely ever acknowledged the presence of SMS, even though he was siting next to him or in front of him. Also, we all have seen the absolutely shameless manner in which SMS has paraded his father like a mannequin dummy, just to draw the crowd. All of these things, and many more, indicate that SMS was trying to bolster his image by using his father's presence. Further, his policies in two years have already done more harm to bohras than can be imagined. His misogynistic fatwas are well known, for example, so is his imaginative schemes to extort more money from the abdes.

In all this drama, the mazoon sahib remained patient and has not resorted to any name-calling, lanaats or coercive tactics. SMS, on the other hand has done nothing but try and use ruthless tactics to dishonor his uncle, a person he accepted as mazoon for 50 years. He should be ashamed of himself, and leave alone call him self a da'i.

Biradar
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#288

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:46 pm

Humsafar wrote: Especially Khuzema who in the last 50 years as Mazoon with all his love for simplicity and fairness did not even lift a finger to protest against what was going on, or in anyway helped the reform movement (great point Hussain_KSA). He looked on silently while the dawat became a draconian institution and community was turned into a cult.
Why would the mazoon help the reform movement? By definition, the reformists have put themselves outside the pale of dawoodi-bohra doctrine. Note that I fully support the reformists, but please think clearly: for the da'i, whoever he is, will want the reformists to take misaq and come within the fold. There is no negotiating. The reformists have not understood this simple fact, and hence are still hoping that they can get their demands accepted. That will not happen. People like Bohra Spring are very naive if they think either camp is going to be swayed by the support of the reformists. The people we are dealing with have a very deep sense of their righteousness and are not going to bend. Other avenues need to be explored, including accepting the misaq but ensuring, via the process of secularization, that it is simply a symbolic thing one does, without any actual significance to the words in it. Please also note, that among the reformists are also Taliban-like fanatics, who would have everyone roam around like hairy, bearded cave-men, with women subjugated just as SMS wants.

Also, what you are really advocating is to leave the bohra fold. Fine, you should do it. The problem is that most bohras consider following a da'i (in the absence of the Imam) as a prerequisite to salvation. This is not something invented by the last two da'i's, by the way, it is a firm foundation of the Ismaili faith.

As to why the Imam does not reveal himself. Looking at the bohra viewpoint, one can also ask: why the Imam did not reveal himself when there were other schisms in the faith? Why didn't he reveal himself when there were millions being murdered in the last century? This is not a peculiar problem with the bohras: saviour figures are present in all religions, including Sunni-ism, and their chief hallmark is that they are absent. It is for us to save ourselves and make a choice.

All these speculations are moot.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#289

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:48 pm

There are also allegations against Mazun that he failed to visit Saifee Mahal to pay his tributes to the Dai and also that he was not present in the funeral procession and that he failed to attend the Sipara (Remember Muffy camp is using emotional tactics to lure abdes)..........

The ones who question the above are kept in the dark of the fact that Mazun DID VISIT Saifee Mahal after the Dai's death but he did so during morning hours and left before evening when Muffy was to arrive from Colombo. Regarding his presence in the funeral, how can he take the risk of joining the funeral which had lakhs of followers most of whom were Muffy followers waiting to malign and humiliate him as they did several times before ?? Moreover being a Mazun he should have been given a place in the funeral carriage itself which was absolutely not possible considering the hostile situation. Regarding his attendance at the Sipara, the arrangement was such that 3 seats were kept in the Masjid, the top one being that of the Dai (Claimant..Muffy), the Mazun and Mukasir. The argument made by Mazun camp is that he had already made public, his claim to Daiship, hence he would not sit on the Mazun seat kept for him.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#290

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:59 pm

All the prayers about life of eternity did not work for the dead man, you really think the siparas will reduce his sentence. First believe in common sense, rest will come easy. Life is hard but twice as hard if you are stupid. (John Wayne).

Humsafar
Posts: 2519
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#291

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:04 pm

Biradar,
For reformists misaq is never the problem, the problem is the fiat that comes with it: take the misaq unconditionally and accept the system as it is. Not talks, no negotiations. Mazoon saheb could have spoken on our behalf - if he now is so ready to end coercion and money-grabbing scheme. He could have used his position to influence both sides to come to some kind of compromise. And believe me if reformists knew that they had a well-wisher in him they would have even tempered their demands. But Mazoon saheb did nothing.

No, I'm not advocating the leaving of Bohra fold. But all this shameless jockeying for power by the so-called Bohra divines forces one to wonder. The credibility of the dai and the way dai are made is now exposed.

Yes, in the speculation about the Imam it was implied that he was missing at crucial points in our history. Once again it makes us wonder.

layman
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:08 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#292

Unread post by layman » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:07 pm

Points to consider:
1) we all know about the atrocities done towards SKQ when he was in the Mazoon rutba.
2) mufaddal saifuddin had started the whole anti-mazoon thing with the help of those clowns badrul jamali and his brothers.
3) mufaddal saifuddin is just money minded. Show us the hisaabs the accounts that you take money from the people.
4) no evidence of nass
5) qaid joker said three years ago that he was not a witness in the apparent nass that happened and he and mufaddal saifuddin were called in later, so the why did he say that he was a witness and heard the late Syedna in a meeting with all the saifee mahal boys.
5) would a dai use foul language in a waaz?
6) would a dai loot you and misuse the money you pay him that he forcefully demands?
7) Mufaddal saifuddin in a letter on fatemidawat.com addresses SKQ as "Mazoon maula tus" and later over the years abolished the rutba.
8) why wouldn't mufaddal saifuddin come to SKQ when he was mazoon and pay respects here? Didn't he accept the late Syednas call and trust him? The how can one Trust mufaddal saifuddin to be the dai.

white_pigeon
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#293

Unread post by white_pigeon » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:11 pm

For all these years I hoped someone would take a stand against the issues in our community with pride in public.

We talk about all these philosophic issues among ourselves, in family & functions but sometimes would never ever think of questioning the higher authority in the community.

Now we have someone who has taken a stand against all those issues in a civilised educated manner. No force, no pressure, but a clear educated detailed description open to everyone to decide for themselves in the most polite manner.

I will be not surprised if SKQ is also open to a lot of dialog for all issues in the most diplomatic and educated manner.

This is an opportunity in my opinion and personally I feel extending our support to SKQ can do nothing bad rather than stuck just being as the cattle crowd of the past.

Education is going to play a big part now.

Can people decide themselves this decision by judging the facts presented by SKQ?

Or

Be cattle in the herd as usual as they have been?

Let peace prevail in the end.

Humsafar
Posts: 2519
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#294

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:15 pm

layman wrote:Points to consider:
1) we all know about the atrocities done towards SKQ when he was in the Mazoon rutba.
2) mufaddal saifuddin had started the whole anti-mazoon thing with the help of those clowns badrul jamali and his brothers.
So why did Mazoon take it lying down. He was the Mazoon for God's sake. He couldn't do much while SMB was alive, what can he do now? The problem is that his goose was cooked long time ago, and he let it happen.

Biradar
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#295

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:17 pm

Nietzsche wrote:You people are choosing between Hitler and Stalin.
Before you start comparing people to Hitler and Stalin, you should learn a little bit about who these two were, and how many millions they killed. The bohra da'i, at the end of the day, is simply a tin-pot dictator. If you just ignore him long enough and leave him alone he won't bother you. More bohras need to shave their jahil beards, stop wearing rida and become secular, and stop giving two hoots about them. Then these da'is and their cronies will become what they really are: simple religious leaders, leaving all other matters to the lay public, as they should.

Humsafar
Posts: 2519
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#296

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:17 pm

white_pigeon wrote:Education is going to play a big part now.
And education is what the majority of Bohras lack. And Mazoon saheb should share blame for this situation. He raising the red flag when train has left the station a long time ago.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#297

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:19 pm

I agree with Humsafar as all this Nass drama compels the average Bohras on having second thoughts with regard to the Ilhm of hidden Imam, especially his so called contacts with the Dai........... Taher Saifuddn saab declares Nass on Burhanuddn saab, 25 years before his death. Then as per Muffy's and Mazun's version, Burhanuddin saab declares Nass on them much before on various occasions. Is their any precedent wherein the hidden Imam has declared Nass way way before a Dai's death ?? Muffy also claims that Saifuddin saab had also instructed his son Burhanuddin saab to appoint Muffy after his death so is the claim from Mazun !! Doesn't this cooked up stories sound like fairytales and moreover belittle the exhalted position of Imam who is believed to be from the progeny of Mola Ali (a.s) ?? They are not fooling the gullible abdes but even humiliating the Imam himself !!

Biradar
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#298

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:28 pm

Humsafar wrote:
white_pigeon wrote:Education is going to play a big part now.
And education is what the majority of Bohras lack. And Mazoon saheb should share blame for this situation. He raising the red flag when train has left the station a long time ago.
Humsafar, yes, the train for Bohras has left the station and also the planet. Thats why most abde's are brain-dead fools, ready to grow junglee beards, become roly-poly polar bears, beat their chest while burning an effigy. However, even though late, is there no hope for the young among us? How about our children or our grandchildren? Don't we want them to grow up knowing their heritage, yet be secular and modern in their outlook? Is SMS someone who seems like he will provide this? I mean, the guy can't string two sentences together without going all red in the face. SKQ may at least be more sensible, whatever his past failings.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#299

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:28 pm

Although Mazun is guilty of not raising the issues of extortion and accountability but there is no such record wherein he himself has forcefully extorted money from Bohras. This clearly gives him the benefit of doubt when it comes to selecting a leader. I agree that "Hamam me sab nange hai" but he had no other choice as otherwise he would have invited the wrath of abde fanatics who were dazzled by the pomp and fake mojizas of their master !!

Sikander
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 10:58 am

Re: Khuzema bhaisaheb Qutbuddin is 53rd dai

#300

Unread post by Sikander » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:44 pm

I tell you people, no one should compromise on islam this time.

1) no sajdas
2) no gaib nu jaankar
3)no mojizas
5)no birthday celebrations
6)no playing around
7)no bull shiit should be tolerated this time.

as far as leadership regards to dawat properties and other places are concern we should support syedna Qutbuddin even that with complete control should remain with respective jamaat, just like it was before in previous dais regime.