The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

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DB- MUMBAIKAR
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:20 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#91

Unread post by DB- MUMBAIKAR » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:03 am

james wrote:
zinger wrote: i can safely say that i hang around saner people. no one i know (except 1 jamaat member) said lanat on ex-Mazun Maula

Make no mistake. We would have done the same[/b] in the era of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) if anyone else had claimed to be a Prophet of Allah SWT.[/b] (Nauzobillah)
Good that you were not born in the times of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) otherwise he would have to deal with four and not three (Awwal, saani & saalis) :roll:

By saying the above you are not only making a fool of yourself but you are undermining the character of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) (Nauzobillah). Just imagine.. would Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) be ever happy with your action of sending lanaat on the family members or encourage you to commit such a sin because of difference of opinion or dispute within family ?

Sending lanaat on his own family member, instigating his followers (bakras like you, true abde etc.) to do the same and degrade to even lower level of threatening violence against own family members is the character of SMS and his family. Unfortunately, he (SMS) did not imbibe any good qualities from his illustrious father (Syedna Mohd. Burhanuddin)...

true_bohra
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#92

Unread post by true_bohra » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:36 am

DB- MUMBAIKAR wrote: Unfortunately, he (SMS) did not imbibe any good qualities from his illustrious father (Syedna Mohd. Burhanuddin)...
So if this forum believes that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was illustrious and had good qualities which is but obvious then why was he abused.

DB- MUMBAIKAR
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:20 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#93

Unread post by DB- MUMBAIKAR » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:02 am

true_bohra wrote:
DB- MUMBAIKAR wrote: Unfortunately, he (SMS) did not imbibe any good qualities from his illustrious father (Syedna Mohd. Burhanuddin)...
So if this forum believes that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was illustrious and had good qualities which is but obvious then why was he abused.
Check with those who abuse him....

humanbeing
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#94

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:41 am

zinger wrote:the Shia belief is based on the funda of a leader.
If you choose to deny it, then you best choose the other sect of Islam...

You always claim that you want to hold on the belief of the Duats 50 and earlier, yet in the same time, you refuse to follow a leader...???? you cant have it both ways bro
Zinger

I m not dismissing the concept of leadership. I understand leadership at a different level. For me it is not limited to a person. Or not “person-oriented”. Leadership or a leader can be anything such as : Book, Concept, Philosophy, Belief, Way of Life Etc.

To put it simple There can be negative and positive leadership. I chose to follow what is commonsense, practical, believable and affordable. Be it coming from anyone. I will filter as per my God-Given Intelligence, rather then gulp down anything coming from a “person-oriented” or “position-oriented” leadership. The content of the leader is important not the vessel which is holding the content.

zinger
Posts: 1995
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#95

Unread post by zinger » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:28 am

humanbeing wrote:
zinger wrote:the Shia belief is based on the funda of a leader.
If you choose to deny it, then you best choose the other sect of Islam...

You always claim that you want to hold on the belief of the Duats 50 and earlier, yet in the same time, you refuse to follow a leader...???? you cant have it both ways bro
Zinger

I m not dismissing the concept of leadership. I understand leadership at a different level. For me it is not limited to a person. Or not “person-oriented”. Leadership or a leader can be anything such as : Book, Concept, Philosophy, Belief, Way of Life Etc.

To put it simple There can be negative and positive leadership. I chose to follow what is commonsense, practical, believable and affordable. Be it coming from anyone. I will filter as per my God-Given Intelligence, rather then gulp down anything coming from a “person-oriented” or “position-oriented” leadership. The content of the leader is important not the vessel which is holding the content.
ok fair enough.

but, maybe someone better than me can perhaps explain it but i do believe that the Shia concept of leadership is based on "physical" leadership in the form of a person. not a non-tangible leader in the form of a thought or a concept.

so basically, since you say that you will accept common sense and logic, irrespective of who it comes from, then would you... say for instance, be open to common sense and logic from say, maybe a Sri Sri Ravi Shankar or perhaps Pope Francis or maybe a Rabbi?

Mind you HB, im not trying to trap you, im just curious because your stand is interesting, but a little confusing for me.

zinger
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#96

Unread post by zinger » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:55 am

alam wrote:
zinger wrote: . . .

i can safely say that i hang around saner people. no one i know (except 1 jamaat member) said lanat on ex-Mazun Maula

!
Zingerbhai, you got to admit you are privileged if you in Mumbai and know only 1 person who said lanut on ex-Mazun Maula. What bubble of a neighborhood to live in!

oops, just read your post correctly.

let me clarify.

i know of one person only who said lanat is basically in the context that i personally know only one person who said lanat. there are thousands of others, but i dont know them.

should have clarified better. sorry :D

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#97

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:29 am

zinger wrote:so basically, since you say that you will accept common sense and logic, irrespective of who it comes from, then would you... say for instance, be open to common sense and logic from say, maybe a Sri Sri Ravi Shankar or perhaps Pope Francis or maybe a Rabbi?.
Well see ! your points are person (ravi sankar) / position (rabbi) oriented. We all deserve respect / admiration for whatever leadership we can express. The idea is to follow the content and not the person or position. Person can go wrong ! position can go absolete ! content will depend on our understanding / actions and it will remain with us forever.

My simple yasrdstick to accept or reject a content is based on its principle of universal application. Can I take a principle / content and apply it in any given situation and understand/accept its implications from various angles without corrupting it for my undue benefit or that of others. Keep laws of natural justice in mind. Would you like to do something to others that you would not like it done to yourself. Win/win situation for all.

As shia, sunni, hindu, christian, political party, cricket team etc etc if we are to remain person / position oriented for leadership values, then it’s a flawed / biased following.

zinger
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#98

Unread post by zinger » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:43 am

humanbeing wrote:
zinger wrote:so basically, since you say that you will accept common sense and logic, irrespective of who it comes from, then would you... say for instance, be open to common sense and logic from say, maybe a Sri Sri Ravi Shankar or perhaps Pope Francis or maybe a Rabbi?.
Well see ! your points are person (ravi sankar) / position (rabbi) oriented. We all deserve respect / admiration for whatever leadership we can express. The idea is to follow the content and not the person or position. But you did mention "I chose to follow what is commonsense, practical, believable and affordable. Be it coming from anyone." but now you say you follow the content, not the person or the position. arent you contradicting yourself? or am i reading it wrong? Person can go wrong ! position can go absolete ! content will depend on our understanding / actions and it will remain with us forever.

My simple yasrdstick to accept or reject a content is based on its principle of universal application. Can I take a principle / content and apply it in any given situation and understand/accept its implications from various angles without corrupting it for my undue benefit or that of others. Keep laws of natural justice in mind. Would you like to do something to others that you would not like it done to yourself. Win/win situation for all. I LIKE THIS :D

As shia, sunni, hindu, christian, political party, cricket team etc etc if we are to remain person / position oriented for leadership values, then it’s a flawed / biased following.
Some more queries, in bold again. dont mind me, im curious as a beaver in some cases :D

humanbeing
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#99

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:14 am

zinger wrote: But you did mention "I chose to follow what is commonsense, practical, believable and affordable. Be it coming from anyone." but now you say you follow the content, not the person or the position. arent you contradicting yourself? or am i reading it wrong?


You are reading it wrong. Since start, I m saying I follow the content ( if acceptable according to law of natural justice) coming from a person / position of leadership. For example :

Ravi Sankar says

Respect your parents = content

This is an acceptable content that I will follow. Why ? (Do I need to explain the meaning /application / implication / need of this content)

Ravi sankar says

Worship Ganesha = content

This is not acceptable content and I will not follow. Why ? several reasons :

I do not believe in idol worship ( there are many justifications in my own philosophy, inspired from islam). I m saying this not because I m muslim. But I feel the concept of idol worship is flawed which has been justified by islam and many other pre Islamic monotheistic faiths. Including science.

I naturally do not believe that, there could a creation with such diverse mutation head of an elephant, body of a man with multiple hands, who rides a rat, and many other stories leading to its creation.

Worshipping Idols creates divide, corruption, exploitation etc. and list can go on.

The above jazz is just to make myself clear. I do not wish to get into threadbare discussion over example given above.

Our lives will be a lot more simpler/safer/better if we take effort to respect the content in its own merit rather than blindly submitting to person / position it is coming from.

May I ask you a question.

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because of his virtues and values (content) ?

Or

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because he has been claimed / appointed / succeeded a previous leader / dai ( person / position) ?

DB- MUMBAIKAR
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#100

Unread post by DB- MUMBAIKAR » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:34 am

humanbeing wrote:
zinger wrote: But you did mention "I chose to follow what is commonsense, practical, believable and affordable. Be it coming from anyone." but now you say you follow the content, not the person or the position. arent you contradicting yourself? or am i reading it wrong?


You are reading it wrong. Since start, I m saying I follow the content ( if acceptable according to law of natural justice) coming from a person / position of leadership. For example :

Ravi Sankar says

Respect your parents = content

This is an acceptable content that I will follow. Why ? (Do I need to explain the meaning /application / implication / need of this content)

Ravi sankar says

Worship Ganesha = content

This is not acceptable content and I will not follow. Why ? several reasons :

I do not believe in idol worship ( there are many justifications in my own philosophy, inspired from islam). I m saying this not because I m muslim. But I feel the concept of idol worship is flawed which has been justified by islam and many other pre Islamic monotheistic faiths. Including science.

I naturally do not believe that, there could a creation with such diverse mutation head of an elephant, body of a man with multiple hands, who rides a rat, and many other stories leading to its creation.

Worshipping Idols creates divide, corruption, exploitation etc. and list can go on.

The above jazz is just to make myself clear. I do not wish to get into threadbare discussion over example given above.

Our lives will be a lot more simpler/safer/better if we take effort to respect the content in its own merit rather than blindly submitting to person / position it is coming from.

May I ask you a question.

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because of his virtues and values (content) ?

Or

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because he has been claimed / appointed / succeeded a previous leader / dai ( person / position) ?
Humanbeing ...Very interesting conversation between you and zinger.... it would be a pleasure to personally meet with intellectuals like you who can re-engineer our thought process... Are you based in India or outside India ?

Zingerbhai... I m eagerally awaiting your response to the above queries of Humanbeing...

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#101

Unread post by james » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:50 am

DB- MUMBAIKAR wrote:
james wrote:
Make no mistake. We would have done the same[/b] in the era of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) if anyone else had claimed to be a Prophet of Allah SWT.[/b] (Nauzobillah)
Good that you were not born in the times of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) otherwise he would have to deal with four and not three (Awwal, saani & saalis) :roll:

By saying the above you are not only making a fool of yourself but you are undermining the character of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) (Nauzobillah). Just imagine.. would Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) be ever happy with your action of sending lanaat on the family members or encourage you to commit such a sin because of difference of opinion or dispute within family ?

Sending lanaat on his own family member, instigating his followers (bakras like you, true abde etc.) to do the same and degrade to even lower level of threatening violence against own family members is the character of SMS and his family. Unfortunately, he (SMS) did not imbibe any good qualities from his illustrious father (Syedna Mohd. Burhanuddin)...
I do hope you skip Surah Al-Lahab while reciting the Quran . :wink:

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#102

Unread post by james » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:58 am

humanbeing wrote: Ravi sankar says

Worship Ganesha = content

This is not acceptable content and I will not follow. Why ? several reasons :

I do not believe in idol worship ( there are many justifications in my own philosophy, inspired from islam). I m saying this not because I m muslim. But I feel the concept of idol worship is flawed which has been justified by islam and many other pre Islamic monotheistic faiths. Including science.

I naturally do not believe that, there could a creation with such diverse mutation head of an elephant, body of a man with multiple hands, who rides a rat, and many other stories leading to its creation.

Worshipping Idols creates divide, corruption, exploitation etc. and list can go on.

The above jazz is just to make myself clear. I do not wish to get into threadbare discussion over example given above.
Of course you don't want to discuss your fallaciousness .

Your reasoning leads you to Tawheed ( Oneness of Creator ) as against idols . There are other monotheistic religions out there . Why do you only fancy Islam ?

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#103

Unread post by james » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:01 am

humanbeing wrote: May I ask you a question.

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because of his virtues and values (content) ?

Or

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because he has been claimed / appointed / succeeded a previous leader / dai ( person / position) ?
The values and virtues of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS is the same as his predecessor Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA . This is applicable to all the Duat Mutlaqeen RA .

Habeel
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#104

Unread post by Habeel » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:32 am

James, This belief is imposed, not realized. Not everyone feels that. If you feel it by heart (not by beliefs) good for you. If its by heart, its related with Imaan and you would never have to be righteous for that. But based on your comments, you are working hard to be righteous instead of making points. This is my opinion, Allah knows the best.

Quote from Nahjul Balagah which may help the arguments above: A virtuous person is better then virtue and a vicious person is worse than vice.

Also ppl have discussed about haqiqi kaaba and based on my readings, its not only bohri concept. Its also described very well and with deep philosophical values in Sufism.
Last edited by Habeel on Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

zinger
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#105

Unread post by zinger » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:51 am

humanbeing wrote:
zinger wrote: But you did mention "I chose to follow what is commonsense, practical, believable and affordable. Be it coming from anyone." but now you say you follow the content, not the person or the position. arent you contradicting yourself? or am i reading it wrong?


You are reading it wrong. Since start, I m saying I follow the content ( if acceptable according to law of natural justice) coming from a person / position of leadership. For example :

Ravi Sankar says

Respect your parents = content

This is an acceptable content that I will follow. Why ? (Do I need to explain the meaning /application / implication / need of this content)

Ravi sankar says

Worship Ganesha = content

This is not acceptable content and I will not follow. Why ? several reasons :

I do not believe in idol worship ( there are many justifications in my own philosophy, inspired from islam). I m saying this not because I m muslim. But I feel the concept of idol worship is flawed which has been justified by islam and many other pre Islamic monotheistic faiths. Including science.

I naturally do not believe that, there could a creation with such diverse mutation head of an elephant, body of a man with multiple hands, who rides a rat, and many other stories leading to its creation.

Worshipping Idols creates divide, corruption, exploitation etc. and list can go on.

The above jazz is just to make myself clear. I do not wish to get into threadbare discussion over example given above.

Our lives will be a lot more simpler/safer/better if we take effort to respect the content in its own merit rather than blindly submitting to person / position it is coming from.

May I ask you a question.

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because of his virtues and values (content) ?

Or

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because he has been claimed / appointed / succeeded a previous leader / dai ( person / position) ?
HB, if we can believe that man could rise from the dead (Jesus Christ AS) or part the Red Sea (Moses AS) or build a boat large enough to carry 2 of each and every living creature in this world (Noah AS) or speak with Angels (RasulAllah SAW) , then i dont know what's wrong in believing a god with an elephant head, 10 hands, riding a rat and loving his laddus. maybe thats just the Mumbaikar in me speaking or maybe its just me and my attitude of to each his own

and no need to discuss it threadbare any more. i understood. i was maybe reading words wrong. you say that you are willing to accept a leader or what a leader says, if it does not offend your sensibilities and if you think it to be right, which is cool. no need to go any further (although i do sense another inherent flaw in this, but i dont think its worth discussing, because it would only keep going deeper)

As for your question..... hmmm.....

lets put it this way in light of the conversation i had with MMH ben this morning.

She said that for the last 20 years, it was discussed that Mufaddal Maula would be made the next Dai. Not only her, but i do believe someone else (Alam i think) mentioned it too.

Now, 20 years ago, Burhanuddin Maula was in better shape to be able to judge who should succeed him, so if Mufaddal Maulas name was being taken, then that would mean that Burhanuddin Maula was in agreement with it, which would mean that he knew something that we and i did not. he must have seen the potential in Mufaddal Maula then, 20 years ago itself.

so, to answer your question, is it because of his values/content - yes, because Burhanuddin Maula saw something in him that we do not. something that only time will tell and yes to your 2nd question too because he has been appointed/nominated by Burhanuddin Maula.

Although to be perfectly honest, the ratio is 20:80, but like i said, the ratio might change. only time will tell
Last edited by zinger on Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

zinger
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#106

Unread post by zinger » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:54 am

DB- MUMBAIKAR wrote:
humanbeing wrote:

You are reading it wrong. Since start, I m saying I follow the content ( if acceptable according to law of natural justice) coming from a person / position of leadership. For example :

Ravi Sankar says

Respect your parents = content

This is an acceptable content that I will follow. Why ? (Do I need to explain the meaning /application / implication / need of this content)

Ravi sankar says

Worship Ganesha = content

This is not acceptable content and I will not follow. Why ? several reasons :

I do not believe in idol worship ( there are many justifications in my own philosophy, inspired from islam). I m saying this not because I m muslim. But I feel the concept of idol worship is flawed which has been justified by islam and many other pre Islamic monotheistic faiths. Including science.

I naturally do not believe that, there could a creation with such diverse mutation head of an elephant, body of a man with multiple hands, who rides a rat, and many other stories leading to its creation.

Worshipping Idols creates divide, corruption, exploitation etc. and list can go on.

The above jazz is just to make myself clear. I do not wish to get into threadbare discussion over example given above.

Our lives will be a lot more simpler/safer/better if we take effort to respect the content in its own merit rather than blindly submitting to person / position it is coming from.

May I ask you a question.

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because of his virtues and values (content) ?

Or

Do you believe in Mufaddal Maula to be a leader / dai because he has been claimed / appointed / succeeded a previous leader / dai ( person / position) ?
Humanbeing ...Very interesting conversation between you and zinger.... it would be a pleasure to personally meet with intellectuals like you who can re-engineer our thought process... Are you based in India or outside India ?

Zingerbhai... I m eagerally awaiting your response to the above queries of Humanbeing...
Have replied to what you were so eagerly awaiting

BTW DBMbhai, your PM facility is still not enabled

Habeel
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#107

Unread post by Habeel » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:54 am

I have used a word "Justification" which is not appropriate. The correct word is "Being Righteous"

DB- MUMBAIKAR
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:20 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#108

Unread post by DB- MUMBAIKAR » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:45 am

Make no mistake. We would have done the same[/b] in the era of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) if anyone else had claimed to be a Prophet of Allah SWT.[/b] (Nauzobillah)[/quote]

Good that you were not born in the times of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) otherwise he would have to deal with four and not three (Awwal, saani & saalis) :roll:

By saying the above you are not only making a fool of yourself but you are undermining the character of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) (Nauzobillah). Just imagine.. would Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) be ever happy with your action of sending lanaat on the family members or encourage you to commit such a sin because of difference of opinion or dispute within family ?

Sending lanaat on his own family member, instigating his followers (bakras like you, true abde etc.) to do the same and degrade to even lower level of threatening violence against own family members is the character of SMS and his family. Unfortunately, he (SMS) did not imbibe any good qualities from his illustrious father (Syedna Mohd. Burhanuddin)...[/quote]

I do hope you skip Surah Al-Lahab while reciting the Quran . :wink:[/quote]

james....You stinking kothari jerk... you are comparing the brother (SKQ) of Syedna Mohd. Burhanuddin with Abu Lahab (The most hated villain of Islam) just because he has claimed that he is the 53rd Dai (which till today nobody has been convincingly able to prove otherwise)....You are suffering from an extreme case of kotharititis- a severe inflamation and dislike to anything which is non-kothar.... :wink:

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#109

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:55 am

zinger wrote:HB, if we can believe that man could rise from the dead (Jesus Christ AS) or part the Red Sea (Moses AS) or build a boat large enough to carry 2 of each and every living creature in this world (Noah AS) or speak with Angels (RasulAllah SAW) , then i dont know what's wrong in believing a god with an elephant head, 10 hands, riding a rat and loving his laddus. maybe thats just the Mumbaikar in me speaking or maybe its just me and my attitude of to each his own
Zinger

I m open to discuss the points on leadership. And you have raised a valid point above. I too have been amazed / intrigued by these qualities of leaders you posted above.

Its my personal opinion, that these miracles are more of metaphor for spiritual understanding or realization. I do not wish to generalize on all the examples you gave. For instance; Noah’s ark is a possibility, prophet did not speak to angels, but he got “Ilhaams” ( revelations), Jesus Christ could cure severely ill person. We need to give a good thought to a concept / content before we can brush it aside or accept it blindly. As I said earlier, understand the concept in its own merit, apply it universal application. Scrutinize its occurrence and seek the moral of the story.

zinger
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#110

Unread post by zinger » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:04 am

my other point was this. if you will decide which leaders messages are right or wrong, based on your sensibilities, then dont you think it is flawed, because ur sensibilities would be biased towards what you deem correct or incorrect? would it not, hence, make more sense to decide what is right or wrong, against a benchmark, against set rules then? and it would ultimately be a leader who would set the rules, would they not

this is probably a silly flaw in the argument anyways, so please feel free to diss it :D this conversation can be never ending and this point is, at best, a trivial one anyway. good day

SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#111

Unread post by SBM » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:25 am

James
I do hope you skip Surah Al-Lahab while reciting the Quran . :wink:
Except Surah Al Lahab was not a personal opinion of Prophet Mohammed but a command from Allah
I do hope that they teach in Jamiya that Quran is word of Allah and not the word of Prophet Mohammed,

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#112

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:28 am

my other point was this. if you will decide which leaders messages are right or wrong, based on your sensibilities, then dont you think it is flawed
Actually, Allah says in the Quran that people need to use their Aql. The first thing that leaders ask their abdes to do is to stop using their Aql.
would it not, hence, make more sense to decide what is right or wrong, against a benchmark, against set rules then?
The set rules are the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Is your leader following these rules? If not, reject him. Unfortunately, the silly flaw in you is that, since you have stopped using your Aql, you now follow the rules as set by your ruler himself. And then, you go on to say exactly that. Do you see the fallacy in your belief system?

If believing in the angel talking to the prophet (saw) is the same as the believing in a god with an elephant head, then your belief rules set by your leader are those of the pagans of Mecca, who believed in Allah and the idols that were stored in the Kaaba.

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#113

Unread post by james » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:16 pm

Habeel wrote:James, This belief is imposed, not realized. Not everyone feels that. If you feel it by heart (not by beliefs) good for you. If its by heart, its related with Imaan and you would never have to be righteous for that. But based on your comments, you are working hard to be righteous instead of making points. This is my opinion, Allah knows the best.
Is everyone a psychologist around here ?

Regarding your usage of the word "righteous" , you would find this article running contrary to your opinion .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Righteousness#Islam

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#114

Unread post by james » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:22 pm

DB- MUMBAIKAR wrote: james....You stinking kothari jerk... you are comparing the brother (SKQ) of Syedna Mohd. Burhanuddin with Abu Lahab (The most hated villain of Islam) just because he has claimed that he is the 53rd Dai (which till today nobody has been convincingly able to prove otherwise)....You are suffering from an extreme case of kotharititis- a severe inflamation and dislike to anything which is non-kothar.... :wink:
It isn't " just because " wherever the usurping is concerned . We don't refer to the cases of Abu Bakr , Umar , Uthman as " just because " . Khuzaima is from Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA's family and so is Abu Lahab from the family of Rasulullah (PBUH) . You were the one shouting " Family Family " .

james
Posts: 550
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#115

Unread post by james » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:24 pm

SBM wrote:
James
I do hope you skip Surah Al-Lahab while reciting the Quran . :wink:
Except Surah Al Lahab was not a personal opinion of Prophet Mohammed but a command from Allah
I do hope that they teach in Jamiya that Quran is word of Allah and not the word of Prophet Mohammed,
In other words , Command of Allah SWT dictates that " Lanah " is alright even in the case of family members of Saheb e Zaman . :wink:

james
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#116

Unread post by james » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:29 pm

anajmi wrote: The set rules are the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw).

Funny how the Ahle Bayt have completely being discarded from the set rules.

Of course , the so called Sunnis of today can cherry pick the Sunnah of Rasulullah SAW however they want . The ahadith they don't like , they claim it runs opposite to Quran Majeed . If only , Bukhari had the sense to segregate the hadiths as truthful or otherwise. Then again , the so called Sunnis of today are smarter than Bukhari himself.

anajmi
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#117

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:33 pm

james wrote:
anajmi wrote: The set rules are the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw).

Funny how the Ahle Bayt have completely being discarded from the set rules.
Actually, the most important member of the Ahle Bayt is the prophet (saw) himself. Didn't your Dai teach you that?

Habeel
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#118

Unread post by Habeel » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:38 pm

James: Being righteous for belief is different than being righteous on TRUTH (HAQQ)

humanbeing
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#119

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:48 am

zinger wrote:my other point was this. if you will decide which leaders messages are right or wrong, based on your sensibilities, then dont you think it is flawed, because ur sensibilities would be biased towards what you deem correct or incorrect? would it not, hence, make more sense to decide what is right or wrong, against a benchmark, against set rules then? and it would ultimately be a leader who would set the rules, would they not
My sensibilities will be based on benchmarks / yardsticks on laws of natural justice / universal application.

Anajmi gave a fair example. As muslims we are to follow Quran and Sunnah of prophet. Sunnah of prophet is inspired from Quran and Allah. Ahle bait is inspired from Sunnah of Prophet and Quran. In my opinion, I strive to follow the rules laid down by Quran / Sunnah of prophet / Ahle Bait by using my own Aql by applying the rules as per Laws of Natural justice / universal application. When we discuss every rule threadbare, many people come up with their justification and explanation in and around those rules to suit their desires.

Life is simple with simple rules. Greed and Insecurity complicates our lives and we resort to twist rules to suit our benefits. We formalize our deeds in garb of religious jusitifications etc.

questions
Posts: 170
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Re: The legacy of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin

#120

Unread post by questions » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:40 pm

Emotional connect aside, I read that a lot of Thinking bohris and of course Abdes really believe that smb was very special, we dare not question his knowledge , motives, if he gives Raza then it's the final word, etc.

I am curious why one would think so, that's why Id like to see a rebuttal to the post on smb legacy. Can any Abde respond with valid facts and figures on what smb actually accomplished . Please no fairy stories or self awarded titles.