Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Actually, Rasulullah never claimed to be ghaib na jaankar. So, he did not know.

And now you have examples of 1,2 and 3 in the family of your own Dai too. Apparently, Hussain's sacrifice was of no use.

Adam wrote:Maybe for the same reason Rasulullah ket 1 2 3 kept them throughout his life. Did he not know?
Reasons only the Saheb uz Zaman will know.

Difference being that 1,2,3 were never in any "official religious position"

Adam wrote: Maybe for the same reason Rasulullah ket 1 2 3 kept them throughout his life. Did he not know?
Reasons only the Saheb uz Zaman will know.

I was desperately waiting for you to give this answer just as the way you defend the Dai's felicitation of Modi by saying that he acted like Imam Hassan (a.s.) although he was dealing with the modern day Yazeed and needed to act more like Imam Hussain (a.s.) whose matam he has made mandatory 24x7 !!

No one can beat the religious mafias in twisting, distorting and raping historical events to suit their hidden agendas !!

Reasons only the Saheb uz Zaman will know.

And who and where is Saheb Uz Zaman right now?

SBM wrote:And who and where is Saheb Uz Zaman right now?

There are 2 'Saheb uz Zaman right now and one is an imposter !! Go figure out

The lasting legacy of the 52nd Dai will be that he provided a solid proof that Dai's are not Infallible.

Actually mistakes were made on both sides, on Muffy side and SKQ side.

Muffy side : When the Nass was proclaimed on him, he should also have been raised to Mazoon rutba, that would have taken SKQ out of the picture and we would not have this turmoil.

SKQ side: When the Nass on Muffy was made public, SKQ should have gone to the hospital where SMB was and confront him in private or in the presence of witnesses as to what happened to the Nass SMb did on SKQ some 40 or 50 years ago, this would also have cleared the matter.

this also proves that Dai also don't know the future, only Allah knows.

Now it is left upto us to slug through this mess and chose one over the other.

What Syedna BURHANUDDIN couldn't do or didn't do in his lifetime, he completed it in his passing:

1. Providing ample proof of Dai as not being infallible.
2. Cleaned up the mess in his household - so that everyone - from both sides of the camp- will start looking at their own dirty laundry (AKA mistakes, errors in judgement,), thereby, looking at their own souls, their own actions.

To the degree the leaders in both camps do this, the followers will do the same. Or, alternatively
To the degree that the followers of both camps start practicing this (self focus, soul-searching, taking responsibility), the leaders will follow the same.

What is happening today in the Dawoodi Bohra community proves that not only was the Dai not infallible, but that he was nothing more than another hosni Mubarak or Saddan Hussain or King Fahd or the dozen other Islamic dictators that we find around us who pretend to be "Islamic" leaders. If you study these dictators closely, you will see that none of them will clearly and openly declare their successors. Why? Do they think that they will never die? No. They do not declare their successors because they know the quality of the people surrounding them. They know that the people around them are no better than they are themselves. If they openly declare someone as a successor, the successor would be eagerly waiting for the incumbent to pass and might even push the passing along a bit.

The Dai knew his sons were just like him. Waiting to take control of the power and the wealth. That is why he never clearly declared his successor. The abde idiots like Adam and the others will try to convince you otherwise, but they are just blind fools and nothing more. 50 years ago, the Dais brother was a threat. So he probably told him behind closed doors that he was going to be the successor. Then when his sons became a threat, he told them that they were the successors. But always behind closed doors. Never in public. Why? So that the sons can be controlled with the threat of declaring someone else as a successor. His death has exposed his life and his family more than any reformist ever could!!

Kaka Akela wrote:The lasting legacy of the 52nd Dai will be that he provided a solid proof that Dai's are not Infallible.
SKQ side: When the Nass on Muffy was made public, SKQ should have gone to the hospital where SMB was and confront him in private or in the presence of witnesses as to what happened to the Nass SMb did on SKQ some 40 or 50 years ago, this would also have cleared the matter.

That easy huh?! How would he have communicated with a stroke victim who was partially paralysed and speechless? Therein also lies the fundamental source of doubt. How was the nass made in the hospital so soon after the stroke when even a few weeks later, Syedna's speech was still limited to humming?

Dr. Moiz's look of befuddlement everytime SMB said something belied the clarity with which he declared what the Syedna had said. The whole alleged nass charade was priceless! For all you know, SMB was puzzling over what he was honoring Muffy for and kept asking Dr. Moiz who was busy playing ring master to the circus.

disillusioned wrote:

Adam wrote:Maybe for the same reason Rasulullah ket 1 2 3 kept them throughout his life. Did he not know?
Reasons only the Saheb uz Zaman will know.

Difference being that 1,2,3 were never in any "official religious position"

Yes they were.
If you had basic education into Fatemi beliefs, you would know.[/color]

This statement appears in the article...I am staggered by the absurd claim to lineage to the Prophet . Since when and does it have any truth ?

I can understand the 21st imam having connections but was there any blood connection between the diais and imams ?

At 53, when he inherited his father's mantle, Syedna Muhammad Burhanuddin continued the responsibility of providing guidance in both spiritual and worldly matters for a contemporary world, a tradition also entrusted to his ancestors, all of which trace their lineage to Prophet Muhammad, Islam's final Messenger.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rizwan-ma ... 24082.html

I

Adam wrote:

disillusioned wrote: Difference being that 1,2,3 were never in any "official religious position"

Yes they were.
If you had basic education into Fatemi beliefs, you would know.[/color]

What was the position they occupied? (I'm genuinely curious)

I am always against this so called dai,majoon, mookka and the entire kothari families. In the name of religion and moreover in the name of Imam Hussein (A.S.) the Kothar forces Bohri’s to partake in poorjosh matam and plays with their emotions while they rob the Bohri community dry for all these decades. From what I’ve witnessed, the cult leaders’ intent is to squeeze as much money from the community by forcing un-Islamic rituals such as Misaq,Raza,Kadambosi, Ziafat,Selling Fake Titles,Schemes and Projects and unnecessary wajebats on every aspect of personal and social life. As a result of the Kothar’s cunning scheme, Bohris have become docile, easily intimidated, and blind followers. At the end of the day they have subjugated themselves as slaves to these bastards. Unfortunately the cycle continues…..

We don't need these cult leaders in our life. Since the passing of Burhanuddin, (Abdes ta qayamat tak jivo futile dua didn’t work) and looking at recent turmoil in Bohri’s world, Progressives and anyone likeminded who isn’t totally brainwashed have a golden opportunity to abandon this cult and follow the real Islam that our Holy Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) and his progeny have prescribed upon us1400 years ago. There are more than one billion Muslims in the world and they are not slaves to a particular human being. They are free of the shackles that the Kothar places on the Bohri community. Isn’t it time we take back our dignity and freedom that is way overdue? Can we not just go back to the roots of Islam and live life in simplicity by worshiping the Almighty Allah and the Pious Ahlul Bayt?

Made up titles and praises of Burhanuddin and his father as “dais” is a ridiculous, foolish and laughable act. It’s obvious that they did not have any good religious knowledge and indulged themselves in several un-Islamic practices. Over the span of years they have lived a luxurious life style while building a multibillion dollar empire for themselves on the heels of the community.

If they were pious persons with moral character, the present cut throat scenario would not be occurring. It is pathetic to see muffaddal and gang showing their true color and doing “whatever it takes” to grab the power and wealth at stake.

It is very obvious that these so called dais and the entire kothari goons are just involved in worldly matters and controlling the gullible abdes/amtes in every way for their nefarious purpose. Now Burhanuddin is gone in dust so as these ridiculous praises and titles.

The Following are the self-proclaimed titles and praises created for Burhanuddin and his father. One can easily decide if any of these titles hold water--they have nothing to do with their real character.

List of so-called hogwash titles and praises:-

Shafiq Bawa, Ilahul Ard, Haqiqi Kaaba, Bolta Quran, Aqa Maula, Muqaddas Maula,Haqq Na Saheb, Dai Al Ajal,Hussein Na Dai,Natiq Bawa,Masoom, Ajab Shan Na Malik, Mojiza Na Saheb, Noorani Kalemat, Noorani Chehra, Aankhni Thandak, Gaib Na Jannar, Imam Si Ilham, Ambessader Of Peace, His Holiness, Jannat Na Zamin, Ghanu Jivo Ta Qayamat Tak, Su Ena Karam Ane Ehsan, Neerali Shan Etc.Etc.

I received this email.....
----------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Raja Zafarul Haq (betterpakistan@gmail.com) and (info@pmln.org)

With reference to the flowing tributes that you paid to the departed leader of Dawoodi Bohra community, Mohammed Burhanuddin at the condolence meeting in Islamabad, I would like to clarify that the aforesaid leader cannot be called as interpreter or Muhaddis or having authority of Islam for the following reasons:

He evolved the practices which are purely un-islamic in totality. He used to declare in most of his sermons to his community that he would take them to Jannat and would visit them at the time of their death and in their graves. This is an essential belief of the followers.

He allowed or rather obliged the followers which included people much elder to him to prostrate before him and that practice is followed by his predecessor.

He used to make all of the followers to stand with their hands folded to have his deedar and it is customary in the community to take permission of the priest with folded hands before sitting down in the majalises

All of the followers are asked to keep in their houses large sized portraits of Burhanuddin and now his predecessor.

In most of his sermons, he used to utter laanat and curses upon the first three Khalifas and lady Ayesha. It is a usual scenario in all of the majalises of Bohra community.

He has made very closer ties with the likes of Narendar Modi who was involved in killing of thousands of muslims in Gujarat and the family of Thakeray who have hatred against muslims

He used to honor titles of Sheikhs and Mullahs to rich members of community against huge amounts of monies. The practice will continue and is a source of big income.

It was like the greatest fortune for the followers to touch his feet (qadambosi) against good amount of salaami. The practice is continuing and the followers are urged to visit Mumbai to have deedar of new leader, Muffadal Saifuddin.

In the on going drama as upon who Burhanuddin had annointed in his place, Muffadal Saifuddin who has full control over the entire machinery has brought a hindu person in his majlis to claim that Burhanuddin had come in his dream in 1996 and told him about his successor.

The list is endless. I am attaching a couple of weblinks including one excellent article by a person who was in the community and left it due to its unislamic practices.

http://www.milligazette.com/news/4583-b ... -to-a-cult
http://gowister.com/islam-answer-92.html

As they say, picture is worth 1000 words, also attached are some pictures.

I am sure, you must not have been aware of the above facts. We thought it our duty to bring to your kind attention the un-islamic practices in all of the Bohra communities whether in India or abroad. You may kindly share this mail with the ministers and officials who had attended the condolence meeting.

With regards,

Masood Akhter
Saudi Arabia

The above post sums it up the legacy ...but the real example of his legacy are us, our thinking, our timid ness , our hypocrisy, ....he and his system nurtured and promoted it.

The destruction of Islamic values within 1.2 million victims

Now the list of moochers include many political leaders, police, justice system and even some Arab Princes. These folks have always worked on monthly Bhatta. Guess who is going to support all these supporters. So it comes down to the community to support more Hissaedar. Get ready to fork more moola to fake Mola. We already see them buying people to gaurd the loot. Its matter of time, there will be mayhem at the Mahals. Too big not to fall.

Reporter wrote:I received this email.....
----------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Raja Zafarul Haq (betterpakistan@gmail.com) and (info@pmln.org)

With reference to the flowing tributes that you paid to the departed leader of Dawoodi Bohra community, Mohammed Burhanuddin at the condolence meeting in Islamabad, I would like to clarify that the aforesaid leader cannot be called as interpreter or Muhaddis or having authority of Islam for the following reasons:

He evolved the practices which are purely un-islamic in totality. He used to declare in most of his sermons to his community that he would take them to Jannat and would visit them at the time of their death and in their graves. This is an essential belief of the followers.

He allowed or rather obliged the followers which included people much elder to him to prostrate before him and that practice is followed by his predecessor.

He used to make all of the followers to stand with their hands folded to have his deedar and it is customary in the community to take permission of the priest with folded hands before sitting down in the majalises

All of the followers are asked to keep in their houses large sized portraits of Burhanuddin and now his predecessor.

In most of his sermons, he used to utter laanat and curses upon the first three Khalifas and lady Ayesha. It is a usual scenario in all of the majalises of Bohra community.

He has made very closer ties with the likes of Narendar Modi who was involved in killing of thousands of muslims in Gujarat and the family of Thakeray who have hatred against muslims

He used to honor titles of Sheikhs and Mullahs to rich members of community against huge amounts of monies. The practice will continue and is a source of big income.

It was like the greatest fortune for the followers to touch his feet (qadambosi) against good amount of salaami. The practice is continuing and the followers are urged to visit Mumbai to have deedar of new leader, Muffadal Saifuddin.

In the on going drama as upon who Burhanuddin had annointed in his place, Muffadal Saifuddin who has full control over the entire machinery has brought a hindu person in his majlis to claim that Burhanuddin had come in his dream in 1996 and told him about his successor.

The list is endless. I am attaching a couple of weblinks including one excellent article by a person who was in the community and left it due to its unislamic practices.

http://www.milligazette.com/news/4583-b ... -to-a-cult
http://gowister.com/islam-answer-92.html

As they say, picture is worth 1000 words, also attached are some pictures.

I am sure, you must not have been aware of the above facts. We thought it our duty to bring to your kind attention the un-islamic practices in all of the Bohra communities whether in India or abroad. You may kindly share this mail with the ministers and officials who had attended the condolence meeting.

With regards,

Masood Akhter
Saudi Arabia

Reporter - kindly explan who is Masood Akhter? and MR. Haq whom this letter is addressed to?
Cna you please provide some context to this letter?

Above letter should be sent to every Muslim leader / organization / chat room for information sake. Very concise

Raja Zafarul Haq is the chairman of Muslim League (Nawaz) "

http://tribune.com.pk/story/670425/cond ... stitution/

Yes, we need to send such letters to :

- All Ambassadors and consul generals of Islamic countries (GCC and all Arab countries)
- the heads of all Gulf countries, Egypt, Yemen and Jordan (Iran, Iraq and Syria, with some revisions)
- the OIC and the commission for promotion of Virtues and Prevention of Vices (Haia) in Saudi Arabia
- Aligarh Muslim University, other Muslim organizations such as Deoband

need to add a few more points like :

The mission of Prophet Mohammed (Pbuh) was to propagate Islam and the same should continue as that was the main purpose Islam was revealed. By no means you can a person servant of Islam or Allah (swt) if he is restricting it within a small sect and indulging in excommunication or baraat of the ones who do not toe to his line.


the letter be addressed also to Moosa Raza, Chairman of South Indian Educational Trust. (sietchn@southindianedu.org) (info@southindianedu.org).

http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/ ... vxqErHMglE

Masood Akhtar is a writer of Pakistani Origin based in Riyadh - Saudi Arabia

Talking about the legacy, SMB must have left personal assets worth trillions. Can some one explain the gift tax in India and other countries. Of course, the gift property would be exempt from this.
.

Sorry I meant waqaf properties.

Posting a question to believers of SMB: did he know the future? Why did he allow SMB to marry SKQ's daughter? Why did he allow his son and two grand sons to mary the same way putting their 11 childrenn to side with mothers and go to the US? What is the hikmat behind this family splits.

New wrote:Posting a question to believers of SMB: did he know the future? Why did he allow SMB to marry SKQ's daughter? Why did he allow his son and two grand sons to mary the same way putting their 11 childrenn to side with mothers and go to the US?

They will quote historical events of past Prophets (s.a.w.), Panjatan Pak (a.s.) which resemble the present scenario and justify all the wrongs, after all for them Allah = Prophet (s.a.w.) = Imams = Dai.

New wrote:What is the hikmat behind this family splits.

Aa taawil nu bayan che, tamne nahi samajh pade !

the legacy based on dia-ul-mutlaq...is false there is no special powers or ability

may be we try judging him as a mortal leader and we can discuss legacy

he was a Diai when Bohras modernized economically, traveled globally and migrated to new lands. he encouraged capitalism and orthodoxy. he gave a minority an identity

however the legacy where his immediate family was financially enriched and kept the masses ideologically corrupted, his failure to leave a smooth transition will all be his defining legacy. He failed to reconcile reformists or build relationships with other Muslims.

Bohra spring wrote:the legacy based on dia-ul-mutlaq...is false there is no special powers or ability

Oh dear.

I bet Akhtiar Wahid is furiously typing away at his computer to give you a fitting reply .

anajmi wrote:What is happening today in the Dawoodi Bohra community proves that not only was the Dai not infallible, but that he was nothing more than another hosni Mubarak or Saddan Hussain or King Fahd or the dozen other Islamic dictators that we find around us who pretend to be "Islamic" leaders. If you study these dictators closely, you will see that none of them will clearly and openly declare their successors. Why? Do they think that they will never die? No. They do not declare their successors because they know the quality of the people surrounding them. They know that the people around them are no better than they are themselves. If they openly declare someone as a successor, the successor would be eagerly waiting for the incumbent to pass and might even push the passing along a bit.

The Dai knew his sons were just like him. Waiting to take control of the power and the wealth. That is why he never clearly declared his successor. The abde idiots like Adam and the others will try to convince you otherwise, but they are just blind fools and nothing more. 50 years ago, the Dais brother was a threat. So he probably told him behind closed doors that he was going to be the successor. Then when his sons became a threat, he told them that they were the successors. But always behind closed doors. Never in public. Why? So that the sons can be controlled with the threat of declaring someone else as a successor. His death has exposed his life and his family more than any reformist ever could!!

This theory makes a lot of sense, Anajmibhai.

Mazoon Saheb Khuzaimabhaisaheb was in his 20s, 50 years ago. I recall he was quite the mover and shaker in the community, starting shababs, mobilizing and energizing the youth. He was very popular too, likable, and the youth of those days were completely gaga over him, with his fresh approach And new ways of drawing people toward Ilm and deen. Surely, he could very easily have been, and was perceived as a threat or competition. It also seems that the young Mazoon's energy and youthful fresh approach was a bigger threat to Yusuf Najmuddin, qasim Hakimuddin, and the like.

Syedna Burhanuddin's leadership style has always been a hands off type management style, unlike Syedna Taher Saifuddin, and, as a matter of fact unlike current SKQ too, who is very much hands on.

I agree with Anajmi that By keeping the Nass quiet, not making it public, in either scenario kept syedna Burhanuddin at center stage, without letting the Mazoon, or smb's own brothers and sons become too powerful.

It likely contributed even more to the masses believing in syedna burhanuddin's immortality and infallibility, having the aura of mystery surrounding his successor.

Dai is infallible coz he is Dai al Mutlaq, which means in zamaan of satr He has complete authority. If you accuse He is fallible then you are indirectly accusing Imam to be fallible too. Mazoon and mukasir are zaahir administrative posts but they are fallible.