How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
zico_m87
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:28 am

How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#1

Unread post by zico_m87 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:43 am

All this while I have been a silent reader of this forum, finally after seeing and reading much about the drastic (sorry for not using ‘dramatic’) on turn of events :shock: lately I decided to post something that’s on my mind since a long time and I bet most of you must have given it a thought too….

I know there are many out there who follow and are part of our community just because they are taught to from birth, mostly ladies in the house would blindly follow all the farman’s etc. without even thinking or questioning themselves. Most of us are so helpless because of our parents, children’s, dafan of family members or our business environment that we fear the effects/after effects of social boycotts etc. This I believe is the only weakness that our community leaders have learnt to exploit over the years.

I believe in Almighty Allah, Panjatan pak (A.S.) and more importantly I believe in doing good and helping people.
Most of the discussions on this forum lately are about with whom you should part with (SMS or SKQ), isn’t it like you get out from one well and fall into another?

How do we leave this community, follow Islam on our own with the help of teachings available and most importantly live life with nothing to worry about ….
1. Jamat Gundas (they are really good at it) :evil:
2. Boycott from social life, contact with relatives (Manageable? mostly this will affect ladies) :roll:
3. Dafan of family members (where?) :?:
4. Could be more ….

Deerseye
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:30 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#2

Unread post by Deerseye » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:44 am

Bro you have addressed the crux of the matter, we need neither of the two, just the basic social amenities and the QURAN.if only the masses had true knowledge we would not have been led up to this foolish dance.

zico_m87
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:28 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#3

Unread post by zico_m87 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:08 am

i wonder where do people bury their dead if they are not allowed to bury them in our kabrastaan because of some reason...

faalse_ka_faasla
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:28 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#4

Unread post by faalse_ka_faasla » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:18 am

zico_m87 wrote:i wonder where do people bury their dead if they are not allowed to bury them in our kabrastaan because of some reason...
Many muslim Kabrastaan do allow burial of the dead irrespective of their sect. be it sunni or shia muslim.
You should do some research according to your city and country of residence.
Here in kuwait there is single one Kabrastaan for all muslims.

P.S. It is divided in two blocks for shia and sunny muslim.

Sikander
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 10:58 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#5

Unread post by Sikander » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:56 am

by fear of not getting place in kabrestaan, you cant burry ur self in unislamic and unjustified practices while you are alive.

let us all do as much good as we can do, and let ALLAH take care of our body when we die.

Jamali
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#6

Unread post by Jamali » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:07 am

Oh my brothers and sisters...Why are you worrying about your bodies when you need to worry about your soul? The life hereafter is what counts...Your Amal is what is going to decide your fate. For a moment, think about this...You do believe that when you had faith in your Dai, you were successful in business, exams etc? If your belief in him paved your way to making sure you suceeded in this life, then understand this too...Who did your Dai pray to? Who did he do Namaz to and ask for success? So if your faith in Almighty Allah is buland and your faith in the teachings and in the Quran is bulund, why worry about where you will be buried? If the Dai himself used to remember the Almighty, used to read the Quran, take the vasila of Panjatan Pak, what makes you think that if you do the same, they will not lead you to success???

faalse_ka_faasla
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:28 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#7

Unread post by faalse_ka_faasla » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:50 am

The reason many people find it difficult to leave or go against the community is their family.
Many people here in the community are not afraid for what will happen to them.
But it is the fear of what will happen to their family that keeps them silent.
I don't care if i get excommunicted and i don't get entry to masjid.
I don't care if no one invites me to their functions or speak to me.
I don't care if i don't get place to bury my body in kabrastan.
But i fear to face my father, mother, brother, sister if all this happen to them because of my action.

Jamali
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#8

Unread post by Jamali » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:58 am

faalse_ka_faasla wrote:The reason many people find it difficult to leave or go against the community is their family.
Many people here in the community are not afraid for what will happen to them.
But it is the fear of what will happen to their family that keeps them silent.
I don't care if i get excommunicted and i don't get entry to masjid.
I don't care if no one invites me to their functions or speak to me.
I don't care if i don't get place to bury my body in kabrastan.
But i fear to face my father, mother, brother, sister if all this happen to them because of my action.


Well how do you think the reformists live? Its all about how you look at life...Reformists have families...They are living arent they? Yes they have been excommunicated but truth be told, despite that family relations still exist between them and those still in the community. Families fear excommunication and fear being isolated but with time you get used to it. You make new friendships, form new bonds and move on. There are reformist groups across the world who live is harmony and who perform all the necessary functions albeit in absence of a Dictator. And the best part is they are at peace with themselves and their creator.

aamadmi
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:24 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#9

Unread post by aamadmi » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:05 am

This is exactly the problem of every one. \We are all family loving people. Any harm to them is just not acceptable to us. The gundas in both parties have no religion and they do not care for anyone. This is the only reason most of us are quite. Just see the recent example, 18 people died in the stampede, no one from the Kothar came to ask them what happened to them, to console their relatives. The least one could do is call them up or visit them and console their near and ear ones. SMS or any of his sons or brothers could attend to the mass janaza namaz or on the 3rd day when he prayed the sipara of his father he could have prayed the sipara of these 18 people as well.Afterall they died for the love of his father.But no. Who cares about the common man. I feel both the parties should be boycotted. Both are the two sides of the same coin.

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#10

Unread post by Smart » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:42 am

Let me address the basic questions: I hope it is useful. I have learnt this from my own experience and the experience of helping others come out of the ditch.

1. Business relations for shop keepers. This is an important issue for most of us as, we have shops in a Bohra locale and it becomes difficult if you are not in. The solution is either to venture out to a new city / locale or get into a profession / job. The idea is to make your income immune to pressures and manipulation. Once your income is safe, you become stronger and confident.
2. Social Relations: What will happen to me if I am boycotted? This is a question that bugs most of us. Actually, the establishment has been very smart in keeping Abdes, involved in the community in myriad ways, so that their whole social circle / network is limited to other Abdes. The solution to this is go and broaden your circle, become a pillar of the society at large. From personal experience I can tell you that the establishment is afraid of such people. Paasa palat jaata hain. Remember Abdes are less than 0.02% of the world's population. 99.98% are others.
3. Burial: Abdes have been brainwashed that only burial in a Bohras Qabrastan will lead to their najaat. "Matti kharab thai jase" is a common refrain. Let us understand that this a control mechanism. The whole earth has been created by Allah, so why are only certain patches of land important to reach back to him? A little clarity in this matter is a big relief.
4. Marriage: once upon a time this was a valid fear. How will I get my Son / Daughter married, without requiring them to marry non-bohras. Today, with the internet, it is possible and many are marrying that way. You just have to see the matrimonials section of this website, to see how active it is. The sanctity of the marriage is not reduced if it is not performed by the mafia.

If there are any other concerns we can discuss it here.
It is clear, that if anybody is serious about throwing away the shackles it is possible. What is needed is a systematic plan and sustained effort.

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#11

Unread post by juzerali » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:16 am

@Smart you have drawn a few very good points. I want to stress more upon isolation mechanism. The most effective and nasty policy that Kothar uses to isolate a mumin is by killing individual thought. They make us believe that even if one anti-bohra thought reaches our mind, is enough to push us downhill. Which is actually correct given shaky ground on which the current establishment is built upon. Other means of isolation are keeping us engaged all through the year in stupid majalis, jaman, wa'az etc. Thus round the year "pious" mumins have at least one event to worry about, leaving no room for exploring events outside the community.

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#12

Unread post by Smart » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:18 am

@juzerali, thanks.
I understand that they take away all your surplus. Surplus money, surplus time and surplus mind space. My post is not for everybody, but for the few people who are stuck for whatever reason. Gradual erosion can destroy even big mountains.

trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#13

Unread post by trvoice » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:49 am

1. Jamat Gundas (they are really good at it) :evil:
A: Once out of their control they cannot do anything. Either you should be in or out, but in any case never hesitate to defend and protect your loved ones at any cost.

2. Boycott from social life, contact with relatives (Manageable? mostly this will affect ladies) :roll:
A: There are billions of people on earth, go to social events make new friends, new circle. Its really easier than it seems, throw parties etc

3. Dafan of family members (where?) :?:
A: There are lots of options, bury, cremate etc. Its about how you remember your deceased not how you did the final rites.

4. Could be more ….
A: The more you think the more you will be vulnerable. Keep calm and breath a fresh air of freedom

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#14

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:00 pm

Has anyone seen any dead bodies on the street anywhere? They all get buried in the ground. Do you enjoy sitting on hard ground for hours doing matam and listening to noorani kalamat of the illitrate Dai with a $20 Dr degree. Mola and Co only needs your money. They care none for you or your children. Find something worth while to do. You may be alone but never lonely. Have faith in Allah. You will have sukkoon or believe in Dai as your Lord and you will have chaos.
You can all see the kind of family your Mola created for himself.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#15

Unread post by JC » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:44 pm

If for some reason/s we are not able to leave bohra community (yes we may be termed hypocrites) rest assured at least 50% of our children, young generation will leave community. The current split has once again pushed younger generation specially boys to question this drama and older generation is not able to answer their questions well ........... they have been silenced by parents by way to 'stick to ur eman' and 'you may not understand' and alike but for sure young ones will research more and more, think and a day will soon come when they will do the 'barat' of Kotharis from their lives.

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: How can we leave Dawoodi Bohra community?

#16

Unread post by Smart » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:16 pm

'barat' of Kotharis
I like this!