Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
bohrabhai
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#571

Unread post by bohrabhai » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:07 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t88DO58iDDQ
Dawoodi Bohra Women and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS

Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#572

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:35 pm

bohrabhai wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t88DO58iDDQ
Dawoodi Bohra Women and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS
What you have posted is the propoganda video to repair the image of MS.
The real truth comes out when MS let's himself lose and goes off script on the takhat, than we hear thos half sentences, the "Su thai? Su Thai? Su Thai?" and then a sheepish "Koine buru to nathi lagu?"
I challenge him to do one bayan or waaz for 30 minutes without any written material in front of him, I would pay to watch that scene!

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#573

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:57 am

and you see a stark contrast between SKQ sahib and Muffadal Saab....SKQ sahib has control over his language, he does it like a Pro!
you can see his confidence and power of speech, it sometimes gives me goose bumps too, I wonder how such an acknowledged and akin like STS (RA) and SMB (RA) has been discredited by his family.

bohri
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#574

Unread post by bohri » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:02 am

bohrabhai wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t88DO58iDDQ
Dawoodi Bohra Women and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS
Good kindergarten material.

Fatema MN
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#575

Unread post by Fatema MN » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:34 am

After having heard Mufaddal bhaisaabs bayaans for the past couple of years and seeing the kind of policies that he has been implementing at the jamaat level, it is very clear that Mufaddal bhaisaab does not respect women. He does not think of them as 'individuals', he does not 'trust' them, he thinks that unless they are controlled and disciplined, they will act in immoral ways! Please don't try to defend him on this, you are only lying to yourself if you make excuses for his irresponsible and immature bayaans with regard to women. Some of the things he has said are outright demeaning!

DB- MUMBAIKAR
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:20 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#576

Unread post by DB- MUMBAIKAR » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:37 am

Fatema MN wrote:After having heard Mufaddal bhaisaabs bayaans for the past couple of years and seeing the kind of policies that he has been implementing at the jamaat level, it is very clear that Mufaddal bhaisaab does not respect women. He does not think of them as 'individuals', he does not 'trust' them, he thinks that unless they are controlled and disciplined, they will act in immoral ways! Please don't try to defend him on this, you are only lying to yourself if you make excuses for his irresponsible and immature bayaans with regard to women. Some of the things he has said are outright demeaning!
A Hypocrite that he is.... He himself is being controlled by his own wife and his sasuraal..... :wink: maybe he is frustrated by being a puppet and is removing his angst on all poor bohra bairo.... :roll:

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#577

Unread post by incredible » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:53 am

poor man is controlled by wifey.

saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#578

Unread post by saminaben » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:18 pm

I've had several occasions to see these princesses (bensaheb a) in action, including this joharabensaheb and company.

Most of these bensahebs seem like a real person, a real human being, when 1-1 contact. All this changes when put them in group setting, where they command and demand servant behavior from us, absolute obedience and shut down yr own thinking.

Same is with the princes and bhaisahebs. But worse because woman get treated like dirt. I've noticed so much bad mouthing of woman, put downs, and even women themselves calling other women - as having a bad mentality.

Don't they understand and see that it's crowd mentality, group thinking. Just look at what is happening onthe Mardo majlis, and how the men are behaving with the laanuts.
And how the fight for power is between the men.

This is a societal problem, not just inbohras. Bohra woman has learned to be submissive. So much that every once in a while a woman comes as a witch, and so powerful, that even a Shehzada like Mufaddal bhaisaheb now has to bend down to her commands. That is the johar of Yusuf Najmuddin.

EVIL does not discriminate. it befalls even a woman.

And yes, woman are severely battered in the bohra community. Literally and metaphorically. Now some woman is going to standup and say she is not. I will stand right with her and say the same. That I may not be battered by my husband or father or brother, but it doesn't change the plight of woman for I know so from my sisters and friends.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#579

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:06 pm

We have heard about "Evan e Kutbi", "Evan e Hussaini" but never heard "Evan e Burhani" or "Evan e Safuddin". Muffy has gone ahead and come up with "Evan - e Mufaddal" !!!

16mi raat darees n niyaz jaman at Evan-E-Mufaddal in BETMA

15th Jumadil Awwal, 1435

Location: Madhya Pradesh, India, Betma, Bohra Street

Courtesy : Zeninfosys.

bohrabhai
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#580

Unread post by bohrabhai » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:54 pm

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/azizpoonaw ... e-science/

Dawoodi Bohra women speak about home science
March 16, 2014 By Aziz Poonawalla 0 Comments
In my last post I defended my community, the Dawoodi Bohras, from accusations of Mr. Qutbuddin’s faction about the role of women and traditional values. The great flaw in my arguments of course is that I am a male. So here are many female voices from my community to speak for themselves instead.
For example, Rashida Mustafa writes at her blog, Child on Hip and Hand on Computer:
To be shouted down in the kind of storm levelled at us by the followers of Qutbuddin is judgemental and an offensive act of organised bullying and should be regarded as such.
On the other hand, it is vital not to disparage housework or to think that looking after a home requires no skill that ought to be taught. From Cleaning and Craft to Child-Psychology, there are subjects in the Home Science curricula that are more useful and fulfilling to the average woman than many others on offer. Entire curricula are being changed to accommodate this reasoning in progressive learning environments. New sets of qualifications are being generated with the same credit value and equivalence as the more old-fashioned academic disciplines so that our cherished values of equal rights, equal opportunity and equal dignity for every human being are reflected in the learning we promote. Nothing except complete arrogance and brutality would dismiss the rights of women at home or their roles and their work to the dustbin of the unaddressed.
Moreover, it is our belief, that of our own faith, that from these home-grown entrepreneurships women can be more economically independent and successful than when relegated to the brokerage of the service industry. Never mind women, it is our belief that even men will be more successful, independent, religious and courageous in their small corner shops than when employed by the Corporation. Would MoulaTUS then, advocate independence for men and servitude for women?
Why is it then, that we allow ourselves to be shaken up when we are told to reconsider our values? We have invested too much in the skills of servitude and like the prisoner who is released at last, we stand at the prison gates and wonder if we know how to live a life without drill. “Take me back in! Please give me a job! Tell me what to do!”
Meanwhile, the group blog Dawoodi Bohra Women has a number of posts by Bohra women, by professionals like Dr. Alefiyah Bharmal:
What a great advantage I had over my peers. I began graduate school and there were several times after completing my Masters when I just wanted to give up on my doctorate. It was so hard to juggle so many roles– a mother, wife, madresah teacher, and doctoral student. As I tucked my 9 month old into bed, cleaned the kitchen, and said goodnight to my family, I closed my eyes for a moment before pulling another “all nighter”, and every time I would feel the barakat from Moula’s RA raza telling me that he has faith in my success. This thought got me through endless nights of studying, tests, presentations, and papers. HIS barakat is present in my every amal as a psychologist.
housewives like Jamila Badroudine:
As we all know “health is wealth,” and in today’s times where people are health conscious, our beloved Moula TUS has taught us through simple ways how to attain that goal. Making roti, cooking food, and keeping the environment clean leads to a healthy life and keeps the family happy, too; a happy and healthy life leads to positive thinking.
single mothers like Rashida Sh. Najmuddin:
I understand the need to highlight the importance of women’s education. Having taken Arabic as an undergrad, my limited understanding of the language tells me that when Rasulallah SA has said that to seek ilm is farizat on every muslim and muslimah, the Arabic grammar would have encompassed the feminine gender along with the masculine even if the hadith had only included the word muslim. Yet, Rasulallah SA chose to use the word “muslimah” along with the word “muslim” highlighting the importance of a woman’s requirement to seek ilm. My daughters’ education is something that Rasulullah and my Moula TUS are both telling me is absolutely necessary.
and artists like Tasneem Mandviwala:
In a post 9-11 U.S., it certainly has become a very particular experience to be a Muslim woman in America. There are new challenges to navigate everyday with unknowable social outcomes lying in the future that we have to feel out, day by day. Ironically, even though my faith, worn visibly over myself in the form of a rida (a specific type of hijab), might on some level be held responsible for non-Muslim Americans’ sometimes initial, sometimes persistent negative views of me, it is this faith itself that allows me the strength to be patient and understanding in the face of ignorance.
Also worth reading is Durriya Badani’s reflections on the importance of the thaali program to her family, in a guest post at City of Brass:
Part of my faith is rooted in the countless moments of love I have experienced through my prayers, and emphasized in the following phrase, “Hal al-din illal Hub? Hal al-din illal Hub? Hal al-din illal Hub?” (“What is faith, except love?”) Syedna Saifuddin reminds us again and again, with Faiz al-Mawaid al-Burhaniyah being just one powerful example of how he has translated those words into meaningful action and impact. It is also another example of the way in which Syedna Saifuddin continues the legacy of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin.
These are voices as authentic and as diverse as our community itself, and should be taken into account when hearing outsiders’ accusations. I am proud to be a part of a community that can mesh modernity and tradition so seamlessly. These are not the voices of oppressed women, but women who have freedom to make choices for themselves.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 387
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Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#581

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:01 am

It is VERY clear from Mufaddal Saifuddin's bayans that he does not want women to go to University except to study home science. How are these diverse and talented women defending his stance? Will they shield their daughters from all other fields of education and force them to study home science? Will they encourage their daughters who show promise of becoming the next Stephen Hawking or Indra Nooyi, to pursue their dreams or will they steer them gently towards roti making, crochet hooks and the fine art of creating edible bouquets? This is already happening in India as MS bayans are causing women to enroll in large numbers in home science and women are being steered away from other fields of study. There is a tasteless MS propaganda poster being circulated that disparages Syedna Qutbuddn's TUS daughter for being a PHD. It also emphatically states that MS does not want women "to study."
Home Science is a fine field for the woman who wants to pursue it but it can be a nightmare for a literary, mathematical or scientific mind. We have had two generations of Bohra women in America who have done a fantastic job of raising high achieving children, cooking amazing meals and pursuing their dreams in their chosen professional fields. Why can women not continue on this path? Mufaddal Saifuddin implies it is one or the other whereas women all over the world continue to prove that a balancing act is not just possible but quite desirable because a happy and fulfilled mother makes a happy family.
Aziz Poonawala seems to be under the impression that pursuing a career necessarily means servitude. What a ridiculous notion. Should we deny our daughters the chance to be the next Marissa Mayers or Sara Blakely or Sheryl Sandberg because they might need to take a job to learn the ropes or to feed themselves until they get that entrepreneurial break or inspiration? I would not do it to my son. Why would I do that to my daughter?! Many have had fulfilling corporate careers that have led to successful businesses. Surely, using a job as a stepping stone to a business is not so terrible. It does not mean one wants to serve, it means one wants to learn! I wonder if Aziz has ever held a job in corporate America or started a successful business for him to be able to form informed opinions on what any of that involves.

saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#582

Unread post by saminaben » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:00 am

Here's the crazy making reality.
The fact is that Mufaddalbhaisaheb has been Inconsistent and capricious about women and education. People who are his cronies and favorites, I happen to know several of them, when I discussed this issue with their daughters about to start college, they reassured me that of course they will get Raza from SMS. It's how you present the arzi, and he looks at the family structure an backgrund and gives Raza accordingly. And indeed that turned out so.
If You read one of the stories of the women testifying, she indicated that she was the only one of the three who was given Raza. So all this home science and roti making deal is not for his wife and his financial supporters, it is for the Aam Aadmi party. He believes it would keep the women on a leash, brainwashed, but he's sadly mistaken. For all you know we may have a bohra version of a Martha Stewart, Oprah winfrey, arising out of the rotimaking and home science.

No wonder he says one thing in public, does another in private and then comes out with idiosyncratic testimonials from the privileged few. Such is the nature of this monarchy.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#583

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:19 am

And the two women who didn't get raza, what did they do about it? Are they sitting at home wondering how to become Martha Stewart instead of going to college now?

ARB
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:25 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#584

Unread post by ARB » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:13 am

Wouldnt zina still continue to happen when you send your daughters for home science? Hide your daughters hide you wives!

Bhari toh nathi lagtu na koi ney?

think_for_yourself
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#585

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:01 pm

Aa badhu su lagavelu che. Mardo e su lagavelu che. Mardo office maa jai aa su lagavelu che office maa. Wahan bairo saathe waat karvi parhe aakho din. Ghanu mothu zina thai jai. Phone awey to namaaz jai ghanu mothu ghuna thai jai zina ghanu mothu thai jai. Mardo ghare home science maa topi guthe rida guthe and thandi maa garam kapda guthe. Aa su bhar jai to ghanu kharab mahol maa bijaa loko sathe male mothu kharab badhu thai jai.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#586

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:08 pm

Whoops forgot...

Mumineen bhari to nahi lagu ne?

Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#587

Unread post by Mazakyo » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:34 pm

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:and you see a stark contrast between SKQ sahib and Muffadal Saab....SKQ sahib has control over his language, he does it like a Pro!
you can see his confidence and power of speech, it sometimes gives me goose bumps too, I wonder how such an acknowledged and akin like STS (RA) and SMB (RA) has been discredited by his family.
Arey Akhtiar bhai baat tu un ki samjh ati naheen aur aap ko goose bumps honay lagey??


monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#589

Unread post by monginis » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:32 pm

import from Iraq

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#590

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:16 pm

monginis wrote:import from Iraq
"Khak-e-shifa" means the dust of Holy shrines and in this case it seems to be the dust of the shrines in Karbala. The quantity of khak-e-shifa used here could be well over 500 kgs so how is it possible to gather such large quantities of dust from underneath a few shrines ??

monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#591

Unread post by monginis » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:44 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
monginis wrote:import from Iraq
"Khak-e-shifa" means the dust of Holy shrines and in this case it seems to be the dust of the shrines in Karbala. The quantity of khak-e-shifa used here could be well over 500 kgs so how is it possible to gather such large quantities of dust from underneath a few shrines ??
no its not the dust of zarih but the place where Imam hussain(s) was shaheed.

Shia ithna ashari makes similar blocks of khake shifa for different purposes.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#592

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:02 pm

monginis wrote: no its not the dust of zarih but the place where Imam hussain(s) was shaheed.

Shia ithna ashari makes similar blocks of khake shifa for different purposes.
So how much dust or sand was there on the spot where Imam Hussain (a.s.) attained Shahadat ? I have been seeing the blocks used by Shias since decades which means that Shias must have already cleared the spot and by now there would have been a huge pit at that sacred spot !!

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#593

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:07 pm

The vayez in Yemen precedes with a tray of gold biscuits :-

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... 2/4wl6.jpg[/img]

monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#594

Unread post by monginis » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:44 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
monginis wrote: no its not the dust of zarih but the place where Imam hussain(s) was shaheed.

Shia ithna ashari makes similar blocks of khake shifa for different purposes.
So how much dust or sand was there on the spot where Imam Hussain (a.s.) attained Shahadat ? I have been seeing the blocks used by Shias since decades which means that Shias must have already cleared the spot and by now there would have been a huge pit at that sacred spot !!
yes it is.... its the whole ground.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#595

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:30 am

What chemical compound is Khak-e-shifa. I mean, what kind / type of soil is it ? as it is edible ? in my opinion it is “Multaani Mitti” or some sort of clay ?

Is khak-e-shifa is prepared on commercial level ? who prepares them ? what is the average price ?

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#596

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:13 am

SMS bayan should not dent the determination of strong intellectual women who knows how to lead their lives. Those women who are ambitious and competent face many hurdles and discriminatory ceilings in our so called modern world, yet they face those hardship mentally and physically and come out shinning. Bayans of SMS will be implemented on those lazy bairaas who chose to sit at home wasting their time gossiping, watching TV, and attending majlises to pass their time. They are merrily accepting this farmaans formalizing their laziness. Please do not misunderstand my statement towards housewives / housemakers. I consider diligent housewives / housemakers as equal professionals.

There are few unfortunate souls, who are suppressed in this mess, yet they struggle to find an identity. True human spirit and desire to rise cannot be suppressed and with time it breaksout and these women shine out. Better late then never.

I have come across amazingly inspiring women stories, who have silently and patiently found an identity. SMS bayans are insensitive and has thrown loose comments generalizing women’s standpoint.

There are variety of problems women face. Lack of finances to educate or be entrepreneurial, orthodoxed thinking of male members ( father, brother, husbands, father-in-law) and many other common issues that we face alike.

Being a rich a community, there are no international standard education scheme / scholarship. We see a lot of sponsors for a leisure ziyarat trip, but they shy away from sponsoring high end professional education such as medicine / engineering etc. those women who are not capable or exposed to high caliber education must atleast be trained in commercially lucrative vocational trainings such as tailoring / computers / handicraft / catering SMEs.

Before FMB thaali scheme was introduced, many bohra women used to run the monthy mesh/vc or dabba service. It was a homebased lucrative income source. I fondly remember my college days, where I have subscribed to few dabba service.We used to get homecooked delicious food and we bonded so well. It was a loving relationship, aunty would care for us like her own children. Money was just a formality a need to run the house. Since FMB thaali scheme, many such entrepreneurs are left clueless as they had one opportunity taken away.

bohrabhai
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

Re: woman status in muffadal saiffudin raj

#597

Unread post by bohrabhai » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:05 am


monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#598

Unread post by monginis » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:52 am

caption please
Attachments
2014-03-22_19-51_Huzurala TUS performed.jpg

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#599

Unread post by true_bohra » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:35 am

With this pic...what exactly u want to convey....

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#600

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:22 am

true_bohra wrote:With this pic...what exactly u want to convey....
that muffy loves playing flappy birds on his IPAD :mrgreen: