Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics)

#1321

Unread post by Sufi monk » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:43 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:WE HAVE SEEN JERSEYS OF IPL AND FIFA PLAYERS, NOW LOOK AT SAYA/KURTA JERSEYS OF MUFFY'S TEAM :- :lol: :lol:

Image
looks some thing like this
Attachments
download.jpg
download.jpg (6.02 KiB) Viewed 4238 times



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

#1322

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:15 pm

Listen carefully to this off script bayan. He lost track of his own thoughts and ended up declaring that matam karnar logo go to jahannam! He is lucky that everyone was snoozing in his bayan or were just too confused by his convoluted sentences that they did not blurt out jannat before he said jahannam! Who put this fool in charge?!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t290g9pjs9zqqzq/Mods.mpg



zinger
Posts: 1885
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#1323

Unread post by zinger » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:54 pm

UnhappyBohra wrote:Listen carefully to this off script bayan. He lost track of his own thoughts and ended up declaring that matam karnar logo go to jahannam! He is lucky that everyone was snoozing in his bayan or were just too confused by his convoluted sentences that they did not blurt out jannat before he said jahannam! Who put this fool in charge?!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t290g9pjs9zqqzq/Mods.mpg

You are wrong on this. i had to listen to it just once to understand when he said "kaa gaya aa loko, jahannum ma gaya"... it is very clearly in reference to the people of africa who laughed at people who were doing maatam.

He very clearly say "yaa africa maa pan hasse ewa logo". he also says that africans consider those who do maatam halka logo.

but then, the next halka logo that he talks about are those who mock people doing maatam

it could be mis interpreted, i agree, in hindsight, but you just need to apply a wee bit of common sense and logic.



pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

#1324

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:40 am

zinger wrote: but you just need to apply a wee bit of common sense and logic.
And where pray can he get that?



zinger
Posts: 1885
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#1325

Unread post by zinger » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:03 am

No need to get naughty my friend



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

#1326

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:03 am

zinger wrote:
UnhappyBohra wrote:Listen carefully to this off script bayan. He lost track of his own thoughts and ended up declaring that matam karnar logo go to jahannam! He is lucky that everyone was snoozing in his bayan or were just too confused by his convoluted sentences that they did not blurt out jannat before he said jahannam! Who put this fool in charge?!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t290g9pjs9zqqzq/Mods.mpg

You are wrong on this. i had to listen to it just once to understand when he said "kaa gaya aa loko, jahannum ma gaya"... it is very clearly in reference to the people of africa who laughed at people who were doing maatam.

He very clearly say "yaa africa maa pan hasse ewa logo". he also says that africans consider those who do maatam halka logo.

but then, the next halka logo that he talks about are those who mock people doing maatam

it could be mis interpreted, i agree, in hindsight, but you just need to apply a wee bit of common sense and logic.
What happened is that he forgot who he was talking about within seconds! Then using word association he figured that because he had just said "halka logo" he must have been talking about such people and he might as well say the obvious and send them packing to jahannam! If this was one incident it could be forgivable, but he can NEVER go or 10 minutes without tripping over his own words. Then the fool asked the audience to answer his question! No wonder there was not a sound. If he can't keep track of his own thoughts how can anyone else?

On extemporaneous speech at least, the score is SKQ 10 MS 0. Extemporaneous speech implies clear thinking and command over subject material. It's a shame I have to go listen to this fool in the masjid and not SKQ.
Last edited by UnhappyBohra on Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.



Qureshi
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 9:27 am

#1327

Unread post by Qureshi » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:12 am

seriously? omg and he was orator and amir of jamiya safiya for several years? cant believe this. :oops: now we know why jamiya student quality has degraded in recent years.



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

#1328

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:22 am

pheonix wrote:
zinger wrote: but you just need to apply a wee bit of common sense and logic.
And where pray can he get that?
Apparently the audience did not go where to get that either. They are still scratching their heads!



zinger
Posts: 1885
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#1329

Unread post by zinger » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:26 am

UnhappyBohra wrote:
zinger wrote:
You are wrong on this. i had to listen to it just once to understand when he said "kaa gaya aa loko, jahannum ma gaya"... it is very clearly in reference to the people of africa who laughed at people who were doing maatam.

He very clearly say "yaa africa maa pan hasse ewa logo". he also says that africans consider those who do maatam halka logo.

but then, the next halka logo that he talks about are those who mock people doing maatam

it could be mis interpreted, i agree, in hindsight, but you just need to apply a wee bit of common sense and logic.
What happened is that he forgot who he was talking about within seconds! Then using word association he figured that because he had just said "halka logo" he must have been talking about such people and he might as well say the obvious and send them packing to jahannam! If this was one incident it could be forgivable, but he can NEVER go or 10 minutes without tripping over his own words. Then the fool asked the audience to answer his question! No wonder there was not a sound. If he can't keep track of his own thoughts how can anyone else? its known to happen to the best of people. :roll:

On extemporaneous speech at least, the score is SKQ 10 MS 0. Extemporaneous speech implies clear thinking and command over subject material. It's a shame I have to go listen to this fool in the masjid and not SKQ. i dont remember making comparisons nor do i remember this being a competition :roll: and please, by all means, dont bother coming to the masjid, please feel free to listen to waaz and bayan by ex-Mazun Maula (not SKQ mind you) ,please feel free to not waste your time and do something more constructive
And yes, please do mind your language you hack. until proven otherwise, Mufaddal Maula is the rightful Dai of Dawoodi Bohras. You may choose to not follow him, but abusing him shows your the depth of your own mentality



think_for_yourself
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

#1330

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:22 am

haha. Good catch @UnhappyBohra. @James @Zinger, of course your "Dai" did not mean to send matam karnars to hell. But he did say that! The man can't keep track of what he is saying...Just like he lost track of the dates that nass was done on him! I have to agree with @Unhappy's characterization of him even though I won't say the word myself!



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#1331

Unread post by alam » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:09 am

You guys get caught up in the trees and lose sight of the forest.

I heard the tape too. I'm not getting caught up in "he said-she said" or "was referring to" or "common sense and logic".

The core message I heard is this, which is essentially no different from any other messages I hear from SMS, regardless of which audio/video or bayan put forth:

Spreading love through inspiring hatred (against those who question)
Spreading love through threats of being sent to hell if you DO question


Time and again, the essence of SMS and most of his agents boils down to this form of religious and spiritual manipulation and hijacking.

End of story as far as I am concerned.



Qureshi
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 9:27 am

#1332

Unread post by Qureshi » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:01 pm

alam wrote:You guys get caught up in the trees and lose sight of the forest.

I heard the tape too. I'm not getting caught up in "he said-she said" or "was referring to" or "common sense and logic".

The core message I heard is this, which is essentially no different from any other messages I hear from SMS, regardless of which audio/video or bayan put forth:

Spreading love through inspiring hatred (against those who question)
Spreading love through threats of being sent to hell if you DO question


Time and again, the essence of SMS and most of his agents boils down to this form of religious and spiritual manipulation and hijacking.

End of story as far as I am concerned.
your analysis are straight to point, Thank You



Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

#1333

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:02 pm

Zinger wrote in reply to Unhappy Bohra Post:
i dont remember making comparisons nor do i remember this being a competition :roll: and please, by all means, dont bother coming to the masjid, please feel free to listen to waaz and bayan by ex-Mazun Maula (not SKQ mind you) ,please feel free to not waste your time and do something more constructive


And yes, please do mind your language you hack. until proven otherwise, Mufaddal Maula is the rightful Dai of Dawoodi Bohras. You may choose to not follow him, but abusing him shows your the depth of your own mentality
Zinger, when you lose at your own game you cant resort to name calling and abusive language. There are sane people remaining amongst mufaddalis, who though Unhappy, but can still reason. One day inshallah, they will find the strength to come out and stand up against the self made PHONY dai who can't even do basic bayan for few minutes without losing his thought or without repeating some sentences several times. It is clear he was never mentored to be in this position!



Spectator
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:08 pm

#1334

Unread post by Spectator » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:57 pm

I also find Mufaddal bhaisaheb a poor orator. Burhanuddin mola was able to hold onto the audience's attention by his good oratory skills. SMS shouts most of the time and when he is not reading from a script he tends to lose track of the subject matter. I have stopped listening to his bayaans and do not go for any of his video relays. With regards to the clip posted, however, I agree with Zinger bhai's comments. I did not find any ambiguity in his speech in this instance. He says halka logo will go the jahannum. Perhaps I am missing something? Anyways it always makes me chuckle when he shouts out questions to the audience as a stalling tactic. Dies he really need to shout so much?



think_for_yourself
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

#1335

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:12 pm

Spectator wrote:I also find Mufaddal bhaisaheb a poor orator. Burhanuddin mola was able to hold onto the audience's attention by his good oratory skills. SMS shouts most of the time and when he is not reading from a script he tends to lose track of the subject matter. I have stopped listening to his bayaans and do not go for any of his video relays. With regards to the clip posted, however, I agree with Zinger bhai's comments. I did not find any ambiguity in his speech in this instance. He says halka logo will go the jahannum. Perhaps I am missing something? Anyways it always makes me chuckle when he shouts out questions to the audience as a stalling tactic. Dies he really need to shout so much?
First he said that there are some people who think that people who do matam are halka logo. Then without placing "halka logo" in any other context, he asked the audience "Kahan jaasey halka logo? Kahan jaase?" He forgot that he was speaking of matam karnar as halka logo from some people's perspective. The audience was completely dumfounded and did not know how to answer him. They were answering his earlier questions with great gusto...Also weird how he keeps speaking about mohabbat of Burhanuddin Aqa RA and does not think of walayat of self as wajib on mumineen as any self-respecting dai would do.....



zinger
Posts: 1885
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#1336

Unread post by zinger » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:22 am

@ think for yourself, i agree with what you said, the sentence construction was flawed. if you read my earlier posts, i have agreed that in hindsight, it is understandable that people did get confused no doubt

@ haqq prevails... im at a loss. i dont know know when i have reverted to name calling when i dont have an answer. when i dont have an answer i keep quiet or i admit it. now since you seem to think im guilty of name calling, please do show me where i have done it



saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

#1337

Unread post by saminaben » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:32 am

true_bohra wrote:-First of all if laanats are sent day and night among public in masjid then how come it is GHIBAT
- Have you ever seen Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS recite laanat on KQ. I am sure your answer would he witnessed other people saying laanat on KQ but read the message again, it says HE SENDS LAANAT.
- You talking about sending laanats on grand childeren of Syedna TUS, people have not even sent laanat on Abde Ali, Taher, Husain and Aziz Qutbuddin. The root is KQ so laanats were ushered on him
- If you have seen pics of ziyafat, can you put any pic where there is a lavish thaal full of delicacies.
Laanut is still happening today, it is alive and well. Is ghibat better than laanut or worse. Are you now comparing two evils? Ghibat is ghibat when you speak to put someone down or simply speak of someone's negative characteristics. - Clearly the intent of laanut is to curse someone - which is far more severe than ghibat.
You are simply assuming that you know it all and that laanut is only said to SKQ. You live in a far more smaller world than Allah almighty does, and you know not what happens in other locations at other times. Laanuts are ushered on all those who follow SKQ as their Dai.

Your logic that SMS does not say laanuts does not absolve him of anything. He gave Raza on day 2 to utter laanuts at Saifee mahal And QJ bs led the masses and went down in history as being the vocal chords of SMS by being the first to say Laanut on the Mazun in a masjid.

If you are still not convinced, ghibat no karnaar, ghibat no sunnaar is equally guilty. We are all subject to this because we are forced to hear the laanut when we attend majlis. So does SMS hear it. SMS has not publicly declared and admonished people to stop saying laanuts -except for that one time so that they wouldn't interrupt him for "gale lag aavi. . . .". On the contrary that incident was a clear example that he expects people to say laanut.



think_for_yourself
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

#1338

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:26 am

zinger wrote:@ think for yourself, i agree with what you said, the sentence construction was flawed. if you read my earlier posts, i have agreed that in hindsight, it is understandable that people did get confused no doubt

@ haqq prevails... im at a loss. i dont know know when i have reverted to name calling when i dont have an answer. when i dont have an answer i keep quiet or i admit it. now since you seem to think im guilty of name calling, please do show me where i have done it
@zinger I was pointing out that when sentence construction is repeatedly wrong, perhaps clarity of thought and proper education and mentoring is lacking.
You did call @Unhappy a hack, but then he did call the guy who funds your paycheck a fool so I suppose it's fair. But wait a minute...that makes you a hack! Never mind though... Don't want to spend Shere Ramadan
fighting with you!



zinger
Posts: 1885
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#1339

Unread post by zinger » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:03 am

@ think for yourself - you're right, i did abuse him. but that was because of what he called Mufaddal Maula. it IS going to hurt. and yes, i dont wish to start this beautiful month with fights

@ unhappy bohra - i apologise for my harsh words. please view it as anger towards what you said and nothing else.

dua ma yaad



Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

#1340

Unread post by Rebel » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:44 am

Why does MS and his gang always ridicule, abuse and curse other group of people who do not belong to his faith or do not follow him as their leader?



Spectator
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:08 pm

#1341

Unread post by Spectator » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:45 pm

@Think-for-yourself I watched the clip again and I see your point. You are correct. So matam karnars have indeed been sent to hell. Oh dear! @Rebel it also irks me when mufaddal bhaisaheb abuses ola musalmano, reformists, aa logo, woh logo etc. Some of the aamils also do that. I find it uncomfortable especially because I am married to an outsider and it looks very bad. I wish he would emulate somebody like pope Francis. You don't see him openly bashing Protestants and other religions. More diplomacy is needed.



New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

#1342

Unread post by New » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:27 pm

Muffy the Guffy is in Africa and talks bad things about people. Egypt is in Africa. Why is Jamea there?



New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

#1343

Unread post by New » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:30 pm

Why Muffy will never be able to make an educated guess?
Are suno Abdes, he is not educated.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#1344

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:03 pm

saminaben wrote:You are simply assuming that you know it all and that laanut is only said to SKQ. You live in a far more smaller world than Allah almighty does, and you know not what happens in other locations at other times.
In the early 90s, Syed ul Kher, the dreaded saala of MS had called for an emergency Majlis in Chennai at night and uttered laanats on Late Huseinibhai Bhagat, whose only fault was that he had invited Bombay Mercantile Co-op Bank's Chairman, Zain Rangoonwala to the wedding reception of his son in Mumbai. As usual, the abde gathering had echoed the laanats in chorus !



true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

#1345

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:40 am

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 9 Surah Taubah verses 34-35 :
O you who believe! There are indeed many among the priests and the holy men who devour the wealth of others by evil means, and debar the people from the Way of Allah. Give them the good news of a painful torment, who hoard up gold and silver and do not expend these in the Way of Allah. The Day shall surely come when the same gold and silver shall be heated in the fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their bodies and their backs. (And it will be said): “Here is that treasure you had hoarded up for yourselves! Taste now the evil of your hoarded treasure!”

perfect discription of muffu



SBM
Posts: 6198
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#1346

Unread post by SBM » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:03 am

True Islam
Please be reminded that this part of the forum is for Dawoodi Bohra and not to talk about general terms. If you have problems with the rituals of Dawoodi Bohra please take it from here
Admin: Please restrict this person to Islam Only as you have done to Muslim First..humble request



Invictius
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:14 am

#1347

Unread post by Invictius » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:16 am

way2go wrote: b. And most important....Raudat Tahera episode would not need to have taken place at all. The London video only popped much much later...Why?????
This video would not have been released at all. Did you not notice the state Maula RA was in? It was obviously not fit to be shown to the general public. Just the sight of Maula RA in the hospital bed, in that state, not even in a kurta-saya, would reduce most mumineen to tears. Who would like to see Maula RA in such a state? More importantly, Maula RA would not want his beloved mumineen to see him in such a state. It would and has caused us and him a lot of pain. The present circumstances have led to this video being released. Also, the Raudat Tahera Nass was extremely coherent. I will not reiterate points that me and other members on this forum have made regarding this.



Invictius
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:14 am

#1348

Unread post by Invictius » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:28 am

UnhappyBohra wrote:
zinger wrote:
You are wrong on this. i had to listen to it just once to understand when he said "kaa gaya aa loko, jahannum ma gaya"... it is very clearly in reference to the people of africa who laughed at people who were doing maatam.

He very clearly say "yaa africa maa pan hasse ewa logo". he also says that africans consider those who do maatam halka logo.

but then, the next halka logo that he talks about are those who mock people doing maatam

it could be mis interpreted, i agree, in hindsight, but you just need to apply a wee bit of common sense and logic.
What happened is that he forgot who he was talking about within seconds! Then using word association he figured that because he had just said "halka logo" he must have been talking about such people and he might as well say the obvious and send them packing to jahannam! If this was one incident it could be forgivable, but he can NEVER go or 10 minutes without tripping over his own words. Then the fool asked the audience to answer his question! No wonder there was not a sound. If he can't keep track of his own thoughts how can anyone else?

On extemporaneous speech at least, the score is SKQ 10 MS 0. Extemporaneous speech implies clear thinking and command over subject material. It's a shame I have to go listen to this fool in the masjid and not SKQ.
Why don't you grow a pair and go attend KQ bayans. Oh wait, but you get that on youtube, so you don't even need to go in his holy presence(sic) to hear that, if you can actually comprehend his crystal clear voice that is. :mrgreen:



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

#1349

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:39 am

Already do. I do not even notice his impediment anymore. Your master's stupidity however is impossible to escape!



think_for_yourself
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

#1350

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:12 am

I am a distant but interested observer to the playing out of @Unhappy's angst. I pity the jobs of James, Adam etc. With followers such as @Unhappy filling up the back rows and an elephant hunting intellectual such as Mufaddal Saifuddin at the podium, it is a losing battle! @Unhappy I am intrigued by your response to AbdulSaleh's survey. What is keeping the back rows with MS? Is it his eloquent, skillful oratory or the prowess of his intellect or the spiritual nature of his leisurely pursuits? Quite perplexed.