Olive Branch

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Admin
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Olive Branch

#1

Unread post by Admin » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:38 pm

We're posting this on behalf of a new member fatemidawat53.
- Admin
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assalam Alaykum

In politics when one does something really crazy, they would say "he shot himself in the leg" - This "Olive Branch" being extended by Shezada Muffadal Bhaisaheb to Syedna Qutbuddin is full of HYPOCRISY - Apart from the people of "blind faith" and the "die-hards", no one can believe this sudden change of heart - On one hand you offer an "olive branch" and in the same breadth you also prescribe "hellfire" and that is not the sign of a wise leader, wanting peace and reconciliation - If this was meant to be a publicity stunt, it has failed miserably

I think Shezada Muffadal's handlers must have realized the enormous odds they are up against and may have also underestimated the influence and staying power of Syedna Qutbuddin

Maulana Ali (AS) said that "There can be no love where there is HYPOCRISY"

May Allah's Blessings & Peace Be With Us All -Ameen
fatemidawat53

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#2

Unread post by voice » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:16 pm

Admin wrote:We're posting this on behalf of a new member fatemidawat53.
- Admin
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assalam Alaykum

In politics when one does something really crazy, they would say "he shot himself in the leg" - This "Olive Branch" being extended by Shezada Muffadal Bhaisaheb to Syedna Qutbuddin is full of HYPOCRISY - Apart from the people of "blind faith" and the "die-hards", no one can believe this sudden change of heart - On one hand you offer an "olive branch" and in the same breadth you also prescribe "hellfire" and that is not the sign of a wise leader, wanting peace and reconciliation - If this was meant to be a publicity stunt, it has failed miserably

I think Shezada Muffadal's handlers must have realized the enormous odds they are up against and may have also underestimated the influence and staying power of Syedna Qutbuddin

Maulana Ali (AS) said that "There can be no love where there is HYPOCRISY"

May Allah's Blessings & Peace Be With Us All -Ameen
fatemidawat53
Just one word, "Appreciable".

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Olive Branch

#3

Unread post by asad » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:38 am

Mark the arrogance in the ending

View My Video

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Olive Branch

#4

Unread post by SBM » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:08 am

It seems that they finally realized that their lease on Saifee Mahal and Badri Mahal is running out soon...him crying reminds me of the famous saying :CROCODILE TEARS"

Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Olive Branch

#5

Unread post by Mazakyo » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:58 am

SBM wrote:It seems that they finally realized that their lease on Saifee Mahal and Badri Mahal is running out soon...him crying reminds me of the famous saying :CROCODILE TEARS"

Wasey SBM lease kub expire ho rahee hai ??

AliZahra
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#6

Unread post by AliZahra » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:28 am

Shukria voice; asad and SBM for your positive input
I see that you all three are VETERANS and SBM perhaps the longest on this Forum, MashaAllah
Comrade Voice, shukran for the warm welcome (ref. my post "The Way Forward") and your struggle in the REVOLUTION, FeeSabeeLillah, JazakAllah
Let us inspire and motivate each other and learn from each others experiences, so that we can inspire and motivate others
Best Wishes & Kind Regards
P.S. "Ozdundee", a member on this Forum felt that my User Name "fatemidawat53" could be misconstrued/misinterpreted as that of the official SKQ camp and to avoid such a misconception, he felt that it should be changed and suggested this to Admin. who got in touch with me and I agreed because I would not like the Progressive image/vision of this Forum to be compromised in any way and so my new User Name is "AliZahra", inspiring isn't it?

Ozdundee
Posts: 878
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Olive Branch

#7

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:00 am

AliZahra what a wonderful alias...hope you will accept my apology but these are history defining times, and peoples destiny is at stake. This website is the only unbiased place where debates can occur. best people read and make their own minds where they want to put their fate.

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Olive Branch

#8

Unread post by S. Insaf » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:49 am

In the big fight right now there is no Dai.
There is no Farman-e-Aali.
Therefore no saheb-e-raza.
Namaz, Haj, Umra, Nikah, burial, majlis-e-Husain, let us carry on our work independently.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Olive Branch

#9

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:09 am

@ Insaf
You must be not having a Dai but we do have and his name is Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.

It doesnt make a difference for you because earlier also you were not having a Dai and the one we had, you had no belief in him.

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Olive Branch

#10

Unread post by SBM » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:12 am

true_bohra wrote:@ Insaf
You must be not having a Dai but we do have and his name is Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.

It doesnt make a difference for you because earlier also you were not having a Dai and the one we had, you had no belief in him.
Well after he hugged Ramdev Fake Baba, how can anyone kiss his hands, It is same hypocrite Dai whose Aaamils always said (atleast in my Jamaat) that one should not eat food cooked by Hindus and now your Dai is hugging him,
While you guys are very quick on sending Laanats on Muslims or even Mumins but have no problem hugging a Hindu Fake Baba in the Masjid
Is this Masjid Paak anymore?

hasman001
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Olive Branch

#11

Unread post by hasman001 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:44 am

We had misaak today in our masjid and I had to go because of my wife. But I have made efforts to make her realize that all is not as it seems in our community. Fortunately...and Alhamdulillah, she atleast confessed that even she knows that the jamaat and local amils have a lot of issues..but made it a point that she still fully trusts in the Dai. I guess it will take time

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Olive Branch

#12

Unread post by JC » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:39 pm

There are many like hasman001 ............. people have no choice, they will go but mood will not be good, many will know they are going by force ........... people have their limitations (and Majbooree); yes it is cowardice, but given the current situation one is stuck ........

It seems I will also have to go (I have my pressures too!!) but in my heart I am not going to give any missaq to SMS and I will not utter 'Na'am' ........ I will just listen the crap and do tasbeeh of Astaghferrullah in my heart and ask God to forgive me for this cowardice act ........ He knows all and knows well!! I will try my level best to avoid 'Shafaqat' that is 'paying' the goon amil.

May Allah help us all.

Biradar
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#13

Unread post by Biradar » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:01 pm

I don't understand why people feel they have to go. Come on, grow up and get a spine. Just say NO to what you do not feel is correct. Yes, there will be fights with wife, parents, brothers. But they will eventually leave you alone and not bother you. You are not living in a world where they will put you in a Gulag if you do not go. Don't give mullahs power where they have none. Please stop being cowards. This is exactly the type of foolish and spineless behavior that the mullahs count on.

Please, stop being cowards. Grow a spine. Or else these mullhas will run rough shod over you for the rest of your life. And, if you can't be brave, please, please stop complaining.

shehzada
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#14

Unread post by shehzada » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:13 pm

You won me Biradar, my wife and I have decided to not go but we don't go that often anyways so probably wont get in much trouble. I may have to join JC's band wagon last minute once my mom and dad call and plead to go for their sake and that is how they (Jamaat) are controlling us where we justify in our head that our actions are for the happiness of our loved ones....

hasman001
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Olive Branch

#15

Unread post by hasman001 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:41 pm

Biradar its not because of cowardice. It is really a matter of keeping my family IN my life. You might have heard the clause in misaaq where you cannot keep any relations with even your immediate family if they go against the Syedna or refuse to go for misaaq. If it wasnt for my family...i wouldnt give a damn!

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Olive Branch

#16

Unread post by JC » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:48 pm

I agree with Shehzada and hasman001.

Biradar, it may sound 'easy' to you; and yes this is cowardice I already agreed; but with some families this is not only 'fights' - its matter of 'existance' ........ the abde side is so blindfolded that they have threatened separation and going different ways if SMS is not followed - parents have 'threatened' kids, spouses have threatened each other, there is emotional blackmail going on ............ we the people with 'brains' do not want to go that much, we do not want harsh, rash decisions .......... we want tempers to cool down and take it slowly. Everyone has to wait for his/her right and ripe time to act ....... abdes just 'believe' they are 'all out for maula's farman' ..... they are upto runining their and their loved ones lives ............ we on the other hand do not want to give Kotharis a 'clear win' by leaving our loved ones ........ our loved ones are 'mentally disturbed' ....... we will stay on, do our work and act/decide when right time is up.

Biradar
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#17

Unread post by Biradar » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:53 pm

hasman001 wrote:Biradar its not because of cowardice. It is really a matter of keeping my family IN my life. You might have heard the clause in misaaq where you cannot keep any relations with even your immediate family if they go against the Syedna or refuse to go for misaaq. If it wasnt for my family...i wouldnt give a damn!
I know the clauses of the misaaq very well. And, fear that family will break away is the exact reason why most Bohras are cowards, spineless and unable to do anything except wring their hands. The mullahs know this very well, and so they exploit this to the utmost. Let me tell you from my personal example, that no one in my family has gone away from me, even though I am openly critical to the mullah regime. Yes, it was hard at first, but eventually family accepts. Yes, there are some who want nothing to do with me, and I say to them: "good riddance".

Please remember, that this fear is in your mind. It is not real. Most of your friends and family will accept you as you are. Some may object and even shun you, but those are the people who you do not want to associate with in the first place. Please, do not let the mullahs run your life, control it by fear. Let them know clearly that you have a brain and will use it to decide what is right and wrong.

Try it, and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Mkenya
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Olive Branch

#18

Unread post by Mkenya » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:35 pm

Biradar: I have been posting similar messages under various topics. I must reiterate that Bohras are weak-kneed and spineless. Do not lead any 'Morcha' as you will find only yourself once you go round a corner. It is a criminal waste of time to
convert the already converted. What facts, arguments, etc. can you put before them who do not know Deen. Their Deen is passed down to them from their fathers. Many of them are unable to read the Quran let alone understand its transliteration. Most of them slurp up whatever bunkum they hear from the Takhat. Waaz, Majlis, Daris are occasions where Madeh glorifying the present and past Dais are recited. Kothar subjugates the young from a very young age in Madrassa with recitations that 'glorifies' the Dai and his umpteenth Shehzadas. Can we devise a campaign which can arrest and reverse all that? I very much doubt it!

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Olive Branch

#19

Unread post by SBM » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:53 pm

asad wrote:Mark the arrogance in the ending

View My Video
After he makes this face saving speech, his emissary Qaid Chor rescinded the appointment, see the following from SKQ camp
On the 4th of February, Shehzada Mufaddal bhaisaheb, obviously reacting to the backlash and revulsion these actions aroused in the community, suddenly made a reconciliatory gesture towards Syedna Qutbuddin Saheb TUS. He asked his brothers and uncles to approach Syedna Qutbuddin Saheb TUS and extend a message to him. At the behest of Shehzada Mufaddal bhaisaheb, his elder brother Shehzada Qaid Johar bhaisaheb called Syedna Qutbuddin Saheb’s TUS office for an appointment, which he later rescinded.

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Olive Branch

#20

Unread post by pheonix » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:59 pm

JC wrote: ............ we the people with 'brains' do not want to go that much.
Joke of the century. Brains of what? Dung???

AliZahra
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#21

Unread post by AliZahra » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:58 am

No problem "Ozdundee" and no apology needed - We are Comrades in the struggle and must always be mindful of the greater cause and greater good
Salam & Best Wishes
From USA

AliZahra
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#22

Unread post by AliZahra » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:07 am

Way to go Brother"S Insaf" and when the dust settles down, if ever it does and the Progressive Movement having gained a much larger following, this can also be a global "way to go" on all the "life & death" matters
Salams & Best Wishes
From USA

AliZahra
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#23

Unread post by AliZahra » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:32 am

Brother "hasman001" - Not to worry - Wife comes first - You have already succeeded when she admits that there are issues and a crisis - Please do not pressurize her in any way, your life together takes precedence over anything else - The Progressive Movement needs courageous people like you but not at the expense of any harm to your personal life - Someday she can surprise you - Please inspire and motivate anyone you know that believes Reforms are good and Allah (swt) loves those who are sincere in all that they do
We love both of you
Best Wishes From USA

AliZahra
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#24

Unread post by AliZahra » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:58 am

Thanks SBM for sharing the latest
Like I said at the very beginning, it was HYPOCRISY right from the word go
Best Wishes

AliZahra
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#25

Unread post by AliZahra » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:03 am

JC - I sympathize with you
Shezada - Bravo, you made my day, keep up the good work - People get inspired and motivated with action like yours
Biradar & Mkenya - With much respect, these family issues are nothing new - They have existed for nearly 100 years and people have had to "fall in line" to avoid harsh consequences - Not everyone is as courageous as your good selves and wiling to make the necessary sacrifices, irrespective of the consequences - For some of us this has been a long struggle but for others it is fairly new and they may have been inspired and motivated by the current crisis and looking to see what to do or which way to go - We must be sensitive to their everyday realities - Nothing has changed for 100 years, despite the struggles and for the simple reason that years and years of indoctrination and intimidation have made people so compliant that they do not have the mental capacity to reason and you cannot really expect a miracle overnight but the good news is that the present crisis has made people to think and ask serious questions about the infalibility of the Dai and about the Imam in seclusion and the power struggle over money matters and assets - Hence, we should not condemn or be harsh to anyone who has limitations in exercising their free will but appreciate their progressive spirit and encourage and motivate them so that maybe someday they will realize the full impact of the corruption, mismanagement, lack of transparency & accountability, the un-Islamic practices/beliefs, the intimidation, the extortion and the indoctrination and feel the rebellion rise in them and at that point they will, Insha Allah, do the right thing and BREAKAWAY form that system to something else that provides a liberating and happy experience but until then we must hope for the best - I really sense that more people have been inspired and motivated by the present crisis to re-examine their belief system and I feel hopeful that this time around the Progressive Movement will see greater support and people's desire for REFORMS and willingness to BREAKAWAY from the STATUS QUO
Salams & Best Wishes
From USA

hasman001
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Olive Branch

#26

Unread post by hasman001 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:01 am

Thanks brother AliZahra. Appreciate your support.
You are right that we do not have to sacrifice our families to gain their support overnight. It has to be a constant struggle to change their way of thinking and hopefully one day we will see the light of day Inshallah.

Biradar
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#27

Unread post by Biradar » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:34 am

hasman001 wrote:Thanks brother AliZahra. Appreciate your support.
You are right that we do not have to sacrifice our families to gain their support overnight. It has to be a constant struggle to change their way of thinking and hopefully one day we will see the light of day Inshallah.
If you think that waiting for your family to see the light of day, one day, will work, please do so. And, continue to remain naive and feel all smug and superior. No change will occur if you just sit there and do nothing. You need to get proactive and be genuine about your beliefs. If you don't, and just hope Allah will help you one day, then status quo will remain. I can assure you, your family will support you. Yes, there will be problems at first, but family has a wonderful way to accept the most unusually behavior. Specially, if you otherwise continue to remain loving, respectful and kind. Please try it. You will surprised at the results. And the Kothar will have one drone less.

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Olive Branch

#28

Unread post by Smart » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:03 pm

Biradar wrote:I don't understand why people feel they have to go. Come on, grow up and get a spine. Just say NO to what you do not feel is correct. Yes, there will be fights with wife, parents, brothers. But they will eventually leave you alone and not bother you. You are not living in a world where they will put you in a Gulag if you do not go. Don't give mullahs power where they have none. Please stop being cowards. This is exactly the type of foolish and spineless behavior that the mullahs count on.

Please, stop being cowards. Grow a spine. Or else these mullhas will run rough shod over you for the rest of your life. And, if you can't be brave, please, please stop complaining.
I have done exactly as Bro Biradar has mentioned here. Let us remember that just as you need the family, the family needs you. As much as you need your wife, your wife needs you. Same goes for parents and siblings. Actually, if you gather guts to stand up and be counted, others in your family don't really give you up. It is some sheep (black?) in the family who will give up all contact with you. About them I asked myself, "Do I really want to be associated with such slaves, who will contribute their slavish narrative to my children?" The answer was a clear no. My children who are now adults and professionals in their own fields thank me for standing up and struggling. Actually, the struggle has been limited to me. They don't even carry the baggage. In retrospective it was all worth it.

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: Olive Branch

#29

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:54 pm

Re To the discussion that happened above on people being forced to attend misaq majlis, you have to choice to not say Na'am and not go for shafaqat . Your ITS is scanned at the entrance so your attendance is registered.

AliZahra
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Olive Branch

#30

Unread post by AliZahra » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:07 pm

Biradar (such a wonderful alias, want to hug you:) and if you are in the neighborhood, you are invited for lunch or dinner:) - Despite my earlier plea for understanding, patience and restraint, I truly admire your REVOLUTIONARY and LIBERATING zeal/spirit and your optimism and admit that we do need STRONG WILLED/COURAGEOUS people like yourself, to inspire and motivate others, to be the first REBELS in their families but as I pleaded earlier, we must continue to ENCOURAGE their PROGRESSIVE spirit and not to DISCOURAGE them, as it does not help OUR CAUSE (eik bhi jaan zaya najai:))
Wishing all of us much success and sukoon in our struggles and wishing you, Biradar, well in the little "space" that you have created for yourself and Insha Allah I am very very hopeful that, this time around, we will create a bigger "space" for many more people, under Allah's big blue sky - Have faith in Allah (swt) for He is the SUPREME AUTHORITY in your life and your DEEDS and NO ONE ELSE and have faith in YOURSELF, it is very necessary for LIBERATING YOUR SOUL and for a NEW BEGINNING - FEAR KILLS & HATRED CONSUMES - Stay tuned for some really exciting/energizing/motivating/inspiring thoughts/ideas
May Allah (swt) give us the strength and courage to pursue the RIGHT PATH and struggle for this JUST CAUSE - Ameen
May The Best Be Next
Expect The Unexpected
YOU must be the CHANGE you wish to see in your Jamaat/Dawa't
Aluta Continua
Wassalam - Allah Hafiz - Fee AmanAllah
Your Brother/Comrade/Well Wisher In Islam