The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Community.

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james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#61

Unread post by james » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:55 am

alam wrote:
The dushmani against Mazun Saheb started 25 years ago very openly. We saw that and heard that from heptullahs mouth himself a few weeks ago in his hour long speech, followed by mohaamed yamani. And tons of others who are bent on providing proof of their own "broken misaaq" from the last so many years by how they did dushmani against the Mazun of the 52nd Dai, whom they otherwise claim to love and follow. Kothar is under their usual delusional fantasy that Heptullah testimony destroyed Ex mazunsaheb credibility. Quite the opposite my friend - it provided more support for the Fitnat against syedna burhanuddin's Mazoon.

I happened to hear what Husain Hebatullah said. The whole incident was brought out again by the Fatemi Dawat in their zeal to tarnish the image of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS . Husain Hebatullah was one of the main parties involved in that fiasco . He gave his version of the story in minute details . And his version of the story was stamped with approval by none other than Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA in the audio recording which followed his story .

Hebatullah was vindicated by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA himself. So where is the question of the Fitnat ?

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#62

Unread post by james » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:57 am

tasneempati wrote:@James:
We ?
Am I conversing with a schizophrenic ?
james wrote: Your delusional psycho analysis is music to my ears.
It is a good thing that we have established that your chatter about the amils and other position holders is your opinion minus any factual context.
is there some meaning to your post ?

Wait. I found it . The " WE " in my post obviously refers to you and me. Capishe ?

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#63

Unread post by M Taha » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:01 am

tasneempati wrote:My dear bhaiyo & behno it is time for us (Adna Mumin) to enjoy the in-fighting in family. All the amils & other posiyion holders are very much nervous for what will happen next. Most important event will be -
1)- Are the wives of sons of Muffadal moula & QJ bhai saab will stay with their father or return back to their husband.
2)- who will be nominated next Mazoon moula?
3)- What will happen to KQ camp?
4)- How PDB will finally choose their future course?

M Taha please do not give your non sense reply.
tasneemkepati, I have nothing to do with royal fights, my intentions is to propogate true islam and retain people in islam fold and protect them from kothari fitnah.

adna abdes like you will enjoy pop corn while people leave islam in frustration but I would chose the path of propogating ISLAM.

trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#64

Unread post by trvoice » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:27 pm

james wrote:
alam wrote:
The dushmani against Mazun Saheb started 25 years ago very openly. We saw that and heard that from heptullahs mouth himself a few weeks ago in his hour long speech, followed by mohaamed yamani. And tons of others who are bent on providing proof of their own "broken misaaq" from the last so many years by how they did dushmani against the Mazun of the 52nd Dai, whom they otherwise claim to love and follow. Kothar is under their usual delusional fantasy that Heptullah testimony destroyed Ex mazunsaheb credibility. Quite the opposite my friend - it provided more support for the Fitnat against syedna burhanuddin's Mazoon.

I happened to hear what Husain Hebatullah said. The whole incident was brought out again by the Fatemi Dawat in their zeal to tarnish the image of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS . Husain Hebatullah was one of the main parties involved in that fiasco . He gave his version of the story in minute details . And his version of the story was stamped with approval by none other than Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA in the audio recording which followed his story .

Hebatullah was vindicated by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA himself. So where is the question of the Fitnat ?
Hussain Hebatullah is a big liar. He will lie through his teeth looking into your eyes.
Example: Fakhruddin Akberally and Asger Eng Fiasco back a few years ago. He did stood up in masjid and swore that FA and AE were mingling and he was an eye witness and FA is a munafik. Boy these people know how to exactly eliminate the competition and will use every dirty trick never used before. End result was akbarlally went to london and sorted this out with SMB directly face to face.

hasman001
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:40 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#65

Unread post by hasman001 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:34 pm

Bro trvoice....do you have more information on the Fakhruddin Akberally episode? What exactly happened there? What was Hebatullah's motive behind tarnishing FA's name?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#66

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:47 pm

I request the sane members to kindly restrict the debate on the subject issue and don't get distracted by Kothari agents who somehow want to divert the topic, this happens on most of the threads where debates are diverted as the mafia agents cannot defend their master's evil designs and finally resort to illogical and laughable rants which are many a times laced with the gaali galoch !!

shehzada
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#67

Unread post by shehzada » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:20 pm

James sounds like a Shabab member trying to do his bit as SMS's online soldier. James, Fulan, Maxthemature etc are not the types you can have a discussion with. They have an agenda and they will do whatever it takes to distract you with the hopes that many of the new viewers (confused bohras) to this site look elsewhere for their answers. I would encourage you to ignore these people given their goal is to get the worst out of you and show the rest of the lurkers that we are a bunch of grumpy old bohras full of hatred and conspiracy theories. Your simple answer for these guys should be the below as that about explains the type of people they are...

Once James saw a guy on a bridge about to jump.
James said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
James said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
James said, "Are you a Muslim or a non-Muslim?"
He said, "A Muslim."
James said, "Me, too! Shia or Sunni?"
He said, "Shia."
James said, "Me, too! Ismaili or Musa Kazimi?"
He said, "Ismaili."
James said, "Me, too! Mustali or Nizaari?"
He said, "Mustali."
James said, "Me, too! Bohra or Hafizi?"
He said, "Bohra." James said, "Me, too!
Suleymani or Daudi? He said, "Daudi".
James said, Me, too!
Your 53rd is Mufaddal Saifuddin or Khuzaima Qutbuddin?"
He said, " Khuzaima Qutbuddin."
James said, "Die, kaafir!" and James pushed him over...

Dr Fatema
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:38 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#68

Unread post by Dr Fatema » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:06 am

shehzada wrote:James sounds like a Shabab member trying to do his bit as SMS's online soldier. James, Fulan, Maxthemature etc are not the types you can have a discussion with. They have an agenda and they will do whatever it takes to distract you with the hopes that many of the new viewers (confused bohras) to this site look elsewhere for their answers. I would encourage you to ignore these people given their goal is to get the worst out of you and show the rest of the lurkers that we are a bunch of grumpy old bohras full of hatred and conspiracy theories. Your simple answer for these guys should be the below as that about explains the type of people they are...

Once James saw a guy on a bridge about to jump.
James said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
James said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
James said, "Are you a Muslim or a non-Muslim?"
He said, "A Muslim."
James said, "Me, too! Shia or Sunni?"
He said, "Shia."
James said, "Me, too! Ismaili or Musa Kazimi?"
He said, "Ismaili."
James said, "Me, too! Mustali or Nizaari?"
He said, "Mustali."
James said, "Me, too! Bohra or Hafizi?"
He said, "Bohra." James said, "Me, too!
Suleymani or Daudi? He said, "Daudi".
James said, Me, too!
Your 53rd is Mufaddal Saifuddin or Khuzaima Qutbuddin?"
He said, " Khuzaima Qutbuddin."
James said, "Die, kaafir!" and James pushed him over...
Beautiful Poem Brother. Let us push this James into River

Dr Fatema
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:38 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#69

Unread post by Dr Fatema » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:25 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:james (minus the bond),

I and others on this forum are not at all surprised or perturbed by your statements which are the benchmark of brain dead abdes, please continue with your rants, best of luck !! :mrgreen:
I agree with you Bro GM this guy James has dubious character that's why he is here on this forum. & 100 % he is brain dead abde.

Dr Fatema
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:38 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#70

Unread post by Dr Fatema » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:43 am

Oh ho So your wife also left you & went to Thane. So sorry for you M Taha.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#71

Unread post by M Taha » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:47 am

Dr Fatema wrote:Oh ho So your wife also left you & went to Thane. So sorry for you M Taha.
no she is very much with me in Melbourne, it was shayri to be posted on other thread, so deleted my comment.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#72

Unread post by james » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:03 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:I request the sane members to kindly restrict the debate on the subject issue and don't get distracted by Kothari agents who somehow want to divert the topic, this happens on most of the threads where debates are diverted as the mafia agents cannot defend their master's evil designs and finally resort to illogical and laughable rants which are many a times laced with the gaali galoch !!

You definitely need to go to the Specsavers. canadian would take offense at your labeling of " sane " . Afterall he/she was the one who took it off topic .

canadian wrote: For Mr. James, what bro. GM wrote is fiction, but what Muffaddal bs says about the conversation between Imam Hussein and his horse and the Imam praying for STS and SMB before being killed, and his (Muffaddal's) brother talking to him from the grave are all hard, solid FACTS.

And you are the last person who should talk about illogical rants laced with abuses . The below was your response when I told you that just your word means nothing to anyone outside of this forum ,
ghulam muhammed wrote:james (minus the bond),

I and others on this forum are not at all surprised or perturbed by your statements which are the benchmark of brain dead abdes, please continue with your rants, best of luck !! :mrgreen:

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#73

Unread post by james » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:18 am

shehzada wrote:James sounds like a Shabab member trying to do his bit as SMS's online soldier. James, Fulan, Maxthemature etc are not the types you can have a discussion with. They have an agenda and they will do whatever it takes to distract you with the hopes that many of the new viewers (confused bohras) to this site look elsewhere for their answers. I would encourage you to ignore these people given their goal is to get the worst out of you and show the rest of the lurkers that we are a bunch of grumpy old bohras full of hatred and conspiracy theories. Your simple answer for these guys should be the below as that about explains the type of people they are...

Once James saw a guy on a bridge about to jump.
James said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
James said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
James said, "Are you a Muslim or a non-Muslim?"
He said, "A Muslim."
James said, "Me, too! Shia or Sunni?"
He said, "Shia."
James said, "Me, too! Ismaili or Musa Kazimi?"
He said, "Ismaili."
James said, "Me, too! Mustali or Nizaari?"
He said, "Mustali."
James said, "Me, too! Bohra or Hafizi?"
He said, "Bohra." James said, "Me, too!
Suleymani or Daudi? He said, "Daudi".
James said, Me, too!
Your 53rd is Mufaddal Saifuddin or Khuzaima Qutbuddin?"
He said, " Khuzaima Qutbuddin."
James said, "Die, kaafir!" and James pushed him over...
Addressed to both Dr Fatema and shezada :

Just two days in , the sycophancy is really kicking in over here. I am sure its nothing personal against me but anyone who doesn't conform to the majority over here gets called various names under the sun. What is more incredible is that the dissidents have become the same sort what they profess to hate so ferociously.

shehzada , It is quite laughable to read your judgment on me and accuse me of not capable of having a discussion when you haven't even tried once .

The OP as of now is nothing but a Conspiracy theory concocted by a fanciful author who has heard chinese whispers or even invented them and spun this malicious tale of deceit and juicy gossip. What is even more telling , that none of replies that followed the OP requested/demanded even to provide a shred of evidence for the same. The majority here want various types of proof/evidence/source of bayans by Dai Zaman and yet the same yardstick is not extended to recent events in our lifetime which may or may not have happened.

I have not once tried to take this off topic. When this fanciful tale was compared to events of Ashura and Imam Husain AS , it was imperative of me to set the record straight.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#74

Unread post by james » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:22 am

Hypocrisy of tallest order is the post below :
ghulam muhammed wrote:
fulan ibn fulan wrote:The Zikar about Imam Hussain with Zuljanah is one that was told by Imam Ali Zainul Abedeen when he told the zikar of Shahadat in Madina.
Could you please provide the authentic source duly verified by neutral Scholars ?
The same fictional author has offered not one shred of evidence for the alleged events that have happened in this era yet he is the same one who shouts about authentic source when it comes to bayan from Dai Zaman. :roll:

shehzada
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#75

Unread post by shehzada » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:51 pm

Getting back on topic. SKQ's son sort of hints at these conspiracy theories and sibling rivalries. Get your bowl of popcorn ready for videos 5 to 7 as there is some interesting stuff.

http://fatemidawat.com/bayan/questions/videos/#part5

Al-Muizz
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:01 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#76

Unread post by Al-Muizz » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:16 pm

james wrote:
alam wrote:
The dushmani against Mazun Saheb started 25 years ago very openly. We saw that and heard that from heptullahs mouth himself a few weeks ago in his hour long speech, followed by mohaamed yamani. And tons of others who are bent on providing proof of their own "broken misaaq" from the last so many years by how they did dushmani against the Mazun of the 52nd Dai, whom they otherwise claim to love and follow. Kothar is under their usual delusional fantasy that Heptullah testimony destroyed Ex mazunsaheb credibility. Quite the opposite my friend - it provided more support for the Fitnat against syedna burhanuddin's Mazoon.

I happened to hear what Husain Hebatullah said. The whole incident was brought out again by the Fatemi Dawat in their zeal to tarnish the image of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS . Husain Hebatullah was one of the main parties involved in that fiasco . He gave his version of the story in minute details . And his version of the story was stamped with approval by none other than Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA in the audio recording which followed his story .

Hebatullah was vindicated by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA himself. So where is the question of the Fitnat ?

As an ardent follower of Mufaddal Moula TUS, I am frankly deathly afraid of folks like "James" The moron wants to lecture the world on ethics, but the idiot uses a Christian name as a pseudoname....hmmm I guess to each their own craziness, eh;)

"James", die hard abdes are no different than brainwashed wahabbis...none whatsoever. At the drop of a hat, you'll fire a fusillade of lanaats, beat up any one who crosses your warped delusional psychotic mind. As a born American I've seen first hand the kind of delusions overzealousness in religion does during my several travels as a medic. Burning effegies, beating anyone up who doesn't agree with you.......not really a sign of a rational, intelligent human being who can understand that such practices are not something that a civilized society needs and wants:)

My 2 American cents worth

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#77

Unread post by james » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:46 pm

Al-Muizz wrote:
james wrote:
I happened to hear what Husain Hebatullah said. The whole incident was brought out again by the Fatemi Dawat in their zeal to tarnish the image of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS . Husain Hebatullah was one of the main parties involved in that fiasco . He gave his version of the story in minute details . And his version of the story was stamped with approval by none other than Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA in the audio recording which followed his story .

Hebatullah was vindicated by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA himself. So where is the question of the Fitnat ?

As an ardent follower of Mufaddal Moula TUS, I am frankly deathly afraid of folks like "James" The moron wants to lecture the world on ethics, but the idiot uses a Christian name as a pseudoname....hmmm I guess to each their own craziness, eh;)

"James", die hard abdes are no different than brainwashed wahabbis...none whatsoever. At the drop of a hat, you'll fire a fusillade of lanaats, beat up any one who crosses your warped delusional psychotic mind. As a born American I've seen first hand the kind of delusions overzealousness in religion does during my several travels as a medic. Burning effegies, beating anyone up who doesn't agree with you.......not really a sign of a rational, intelligent human being who can understand that such practices are not something that a civilized society needs and wants:)

My 2 American cents worth
You have offered nothing on topic . I hope you get admonished by your peers on this forum .

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#78

Unread post by wise_guy » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:45 pm

Al-Muizz has totally clean bowled James with his comment. James has no defense on this comment from Al-Muizz and hence is demanding that Al-Muizz be admonished !

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#79

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:46 pm

Gyani se kahiye kyaa
Kahat Kabir lajaye,
Andhe aage naachte
Kalaa akarat jaaye.


Why explain to the intellectual ? Kabir feels shy.
Showing light to the blind, is an exercise futile.

trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#80

Unread post by trvoice » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:26 pm

Remind me of

Image

Maqbool
Posts: 848
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#81

Unread post by Maqbool » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:21 am

james wrote:Hypocrisy of tallest order is the post below :
ghulam muhammed wrote: Could you please provide the authentic source duly verified by neutral Scholars ?
The same fictional author has offered not one shred of evidence for the alleged events that have happened in this era yet he is the same one who shouts about authentic source when it comes to bayan from Dai Zaman. :roll:
In the sixth and seventh Q&A series of HuseinBS tape he has mentioned about Aliasger Bs that he was not praying behind mazoon saheb even he had raza from SMB since last so many years. This I have seen twice and I am sure many have witnessed this many a time. Because all Gulams are under threat no body will come forward to confirm this. Even Sayedi Husenibhai Saheb knows this but he is also under threat and not speaking truth.

Dr Fatema
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:38 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#82

Unread post by Dr Fatema » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:31 am


Starwars
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:29 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#83

Unread post by Starwars » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:05 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:a superb and very well written post bro gm!!

i agree fully with your assessment. i had heard from my dad when i was still a callow kid, about the evil YN and his cunning. my father had a few brief run-ins with YN in the days when sts was busy mopping up all the bohra jamaat properties and trusts worldwide.

in my personal opinion. if sts had not appointed mb, his eldest born son as his maazoon and successor and kq as the next dai - the 53rd, YN would have been his most natural and appropriate choice, for it was YN who had inherited all his father's wiles, his cunning, his strategising, his ability to manipulate, cheat, lie, bully, intimidate and use whatever tactics, immoral and unethical or by twisting scriptures to achieve his aims.

having been thwarted twice in achieving his aims, YN became extremely bitter and went on a rampage to seize control of the reigns of power. as is well-known, mb was a weakling and an intellectual lightweight, a mere shadow compared to his illustrious but monstrous father sts. it was easy for YN to shove him and the rest of the family aside with his bulldozer tactics. YN was reputed to be an iron-willed strongman who saw himself in the mould of a king maker, a' la sardarbhai patel or bismarck. he had a very strong and forceful personality and cast himself as a larger than life figure. his appetite for bruising confrontations, his lust for humiliating and intimidating people and living life recklessly, extended even to his own personal life. he was a known womaniser with a penchant for 'imbibing' in the company of powerful, but shady characters. he loved hobnobbing with political ffigures, movers and shakers. as various writers have pointed out, it is this recklessness and insatiable lust to acquire more and more power and wealth which proved to be ultimately his downfall.

with his sudden and ignominous death, his children have taken it up on themselves to avenge their father's 'rightful deprivation', as they see it. they have inherited the worst of YN and their grandfather sts.

to many readers and newer generations of bohras, all this may read like the typical stories about the scandals, political machinations, murders and debauchery of erstwhile maharaja's and kings in india or abroad about which they have read in history books. they think that hell no, this cannot be true of the dai's whom they revere and blindly follow, the dai's being religious leaders who are supposed to lead them to salvation in jannah etc. folks, wherever there is power, influence and money involved then neither religion, blood ties nor spirituality matter. its grab, take all that i can and may the devil take the hindmost. brother, father, mother be damned!

as mb buried his mother's references and consigned her to the garbage heap of history, as past dai's fought over succession, as the recent dirty and public spat shows, its only the foolish and gullible adherents of godmen who stupidly and futilely cling to divinity and all that bullshit, whilst their so-called leaders are at each other's throats over money and power.

thanks bro gm once again for taking the time to detail this sordid history of YN's fitnah. the most surprising thing is that bohras inspite of reading all this, will not change, will not show spine and will continue to misplace their faith in rascals and charlatans.
Excellently expressed. Well done AZ! I couldn't have said it better.

adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#84

Unread post by adna_mumin » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:46 am

There are many questions that arise out of your post.

I would like to know your responses to these and right at the outset want to point out my objective is merely to be objective and to know facts than to believe a made-for-gossip kind of story. So if you do have anything that can shed additional light on the matter will be happy to know.

1.
ghulam muhammed wrote:He was also responsible for siphoning off a large sum of money collected for some fanciful scheme (Scam) from rich bohras staying in Lahore/Karachi
-- More details please, what scheme/scam was this and like you mentioned it was pre-Independence, so around say 1930/40 which means Syedna Burhanuddin must have been in his 20s and so a younger YN a possible teenager and was doing these schemes at that age?

2.
ghulam muhammed wrote:He used to visit the hotel often for “Relaxing” and had a permanent suite booked in which he had his share of rendezvous.
-- Smells of insinuations and gossip. If 10 people talk does it become truth?

3.
ghulam muhammed wrote: He was also responsible for once slapping MB, a matter which had then become the talk of the town.
-- Ditto as above.

What does the Holy Quran say on this tempting practice then,

24:13. Why did they not produce four witnesses against him Since they have not produced witnesses! Then with Allah, they are the liars.

24:14. Had it not been for the grace of Allah and His mercy unto you in this world and in the Hereafter, a great torment would have touched you for that whereof you had spoken.

24:15. When you were propagating it with your tongues, and uttering with your mouths that whereof you had no knowledge, you counted it a little thing, while with Allah it was very great.

24:16. And why did you not, when you heard it, say: “It is not right for us to speak of this. Glory be to You (O Allah)! This is a great lie.’

24:17. Allah forbids you from it and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers.

4.
ghulam muhammed wrote: The Mohurrum tamashas are the brainchild of YN who first “experimented” it in the 80s when he organised Mohurrum vayez in Cairo, Egypt. This was the first overseas vayez ever held by any Dai.
-- Firstly, the term used "tamashas" for the one most important annual event for Shia of Ali as to remember and do zikr of panjatan really gives away the disdain you hold of the faith itself. For many, many young and old people these 10 days aid in reaffirming of our faith and our identity as mohibbane ahlul bait of Nabi Mohammad Mustafa SAW.

This tradition of doing zikr and buka and bayaan goes back centuries and not something new at all. What was the "experiment"? And what is "overseas" for a community today that is spread worldwide really except that seat of Dawat was in India? The "experiment" actually demonstrated and continues to year after year that the believers will shun their businesses and rush to the zikr for such has been the upbringing of the Bawa shafiq!

And the "experiment" demolished the hopes of naysayers and those that want to find that one thing to say that ask them to spend everything in cause of Allah ta and they wont turn up!

-- And secondly, who else in the world renovated the javame in Misr of Aimmat Fatemeein bringing out the aasar and asrar of the eras to life? Why sweep that FACT under the carpet if not with a hidden agenda to mislead?

5.
ghulam muhammed wrote: YN was always eyeing for the post of ‘Mazoon’ which was denied to him as per instructions of his father, ST who had endorsed KQ’s name for the same.
-- Again care to provide reasoning why Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA would prefer one son over the other for any other reason but if he saw who was fit for what?

Well then, bhai i do not profess to be very wise nor do i think there is nothing wrong with administration. But as much as we like to believe the Truth, it is but imperative to make sure what you hear is indeed the Truth. With this i rest my case for now.

Hope and pray that Allah ta will guide us to siraat al mustaqeem. Aameen.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#85

Unread post by james » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:11 pm

wise_guy wrote:Al-Muizz has totally clean bowled James with his comment. James has no defense on this comment from Al-Muizz and hence is demanding that Al-Muizz be admonished !

I disagree. What Al-Muizz offered in his post was a diatribe of abuses and pseudo psycho analysis. I refused to get into the mud slinging as it would have taken this topic on a different course but just to see egg on your face , I will gladly reply to his nonsense in the next post .

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#86

Unread post by james » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:25 pm

Al-Muizz wrote:
As an ardent follower of Mufaddal Moula TUS, I am frankly deathly afraid of folks like "James" The moron wants to lecture the world on ethics, but the idiot uses a Christian name as a pseudoname....hmmm I guess to each their own craziness, eh;)
Prime example of scrapping the barrel. Not surprised at all after reading the below quoted nonsense.
Al-Muizz wrote:"James", die hard abdes are no different than brainwashed wahabbis...none whatsoever. At the drop of a hat, you'll fire a fusillade of lanaats, beat up any one who crosses your warped delusional psychotic mind. As a born American I've seen first hand the kind of delusions overzealousness in religion does during my several travels as a medic. Burning effegies, beating anyone up who doesn't agree with you.......not really a sign of a rational, intelligent human being who can understand that such practices are not something that a civilized society needs and wants:)

My 2 American cents worth
You seem to think that being born in America offers you some special insight into the lives of the religious and pious people . You know zilch about me. You can't even tell if I was born in your beloved America or not .

On your travels as a medic , where have you seen burning of effigies ? Where have you seen people getting beaten up ? You haven't. You must have probably seen couple of pics from Rajasthan where they did burn one or two effigies as a sign of protest ( which happens all over the world and yes in America too ) circulated on whatsapp and your pea sized brain accepted it as a norm rather than an exception .

A lil video to embarrass you :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecp8ZCC3tB8

Weep you S.O.B Weep !

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#87

Unread post by james » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:31 pm

adna_mumin wrote:There are many questions that arise out of your post.

I would like to know your responses to these and right at the outset want to point out my objective is merely to be objective and to know facts than to believe a made-for-gossip kind of story. So if you do have anything that can shed additional light on the matter will be happy to know.

1.
ghulam muhammed wrote:He was also responsible for siphoning off a large sum of money collected for some fanciful scheme (Scam) from rich bohras staying in Lahore/Karachi
-- More details please, what scheme/scam was this and like you mentioned it was pre-Independence, so around say 1930/40 which means Syedna Burhanuddin must have been in his 20s and so a younger YN a possible teenager and was doing these schemes at that age?

2.
ghulam muhammed wrote:He used to visit the hotel often for “Relaxing” and had a permanent suite booked in which he had his share of rendezvous.
-- Smells of insinuations and gossip. If 10 people talk does it become truth?

3.
ghulam muhammed wrote: He was also responsible for once slapping MB, a matter which had then become the talk of the town.
-- Ditto as above.

What does the Holy Quran say on this tempting practice then,

24:13. Why did they not produce four witnesses against him Since they have not produced witnesses! Then with Allah, they are the liars.

24:14. Had it not been for the grace of Allah and His mercy unto you in this world and in the Hereafter, a great torment would have touched you for that whereof you had spoken.

24:15. When you were propagating it with your tongues, and uttering with your mouths that whereof you had no knowledge, you counted it a little thing, while with Allah it was very great.

24:16. And why did you not, when you heard it, say: “It is not right for us to speak of this. Glory be to You (O Allah)! This is a great lie.’

24:17. Allah forbids you from it and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers.

4.
ghulam muhammed wrote: The Mohurrum tamashas are the brainchild of YN who first “experimented” it in the 80s when he organised Mohurrum vayez in Cairo, Egypt. This was the first overseas vayez ever held by any Dai.
-- Firstly, the term used "tamashas" for the one most important annual event for Shia of Ali as to remember and do zikr of panjatan really gives away the disdain you hold of the faith itself. For many, many young and old people these 10 days aid in reaffirming of our faith and our identity as mohibbane ahlul bait of Nabi Mohammad Mustafa SAW.

This tradition of doing zikr and buka and bayaan goes back centuries and not something new at all. What was the "experiment"? And what is "overseas" for a community today that is spread worldwide really except that seat of Dawat was in India? The "experiment" actually demonstrated and continues to year after year that the believers will shun their businesses and rush to the zikr for such has been the upbringing of the Bawa shafiq!

And the "experiment" demolished the hopes of naysayers and those that want to find that one thing to say that ask them to spend everything in cause of Allah ta and they wont turn up!

-- And secondly, who else in the world renovated the javame in Misr of Aimmat Fatemeein bringing out the aasar and asrar of the eras to life? Why sweep that FACT under the carpet if not with a hidden agenda to mislead?

5.
ghulam muhammed wrote: YN was always eyeing for the post of ‘Mazoon’ which was denied to him as per instructions of his father, ST who had endorsed KQ’s name for the same.
-- Again care to provide reasoning why Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA would prefer one son over the other for any other reason but if he saw who was fit for what?

Well then, bhai i do not profess to be very wise nor do i think there is nothing wrong with administration. But as much as we like to believe the Truth, it is but imperative to make sure what you hear is indeed the Truth. With this i rest my case for now.

Hope and pray that Allah ta will guide us to siraat al mustaqeem. Aameen.
Shush " brain dead abde " .

Keep ranting " brain dead abde " .

I wish I had more time to edit the poem and really throw you in the river. shehzada can you do the honors ?

You have no right to ask questions or think rationally regarding the OP . The verdict is given . Anyone posting against " J K Rowling wannabe " is a brain dead abde.

shehzada
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#88

Unread post by shehzada » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:16 pm

James - I don't need to know you, I don't want to know you and I honestly don't care about your opinions nor having a discussion with you. I have to bite my tongue and deal with your brethren every time I go to masjid under pressure from my parents or via "friendly emails" from the local shabab or other organizations that, "I must show up for the Fareezat Misaq". I do my part, primarily because my parents and the extended family drink the Muffi Koolaid and I don't want any problems for them. This place allows me and others to express our opinions and speculate about conspiracy theories, rumors or whatever else you call it because there is no transparency or independent access anywhere else for bohra information except for the crazy propoganda fed to the masses at our masjid. We all are what our friends are to a certain extent and most of my bohra friends are on the same wavelength as myself. We play our part and laugh at all the shenanigans with the understanding that hopefully we won't put our kids through this crap. There is plenty of good about our community, primarily with respect to the culture, solidarity and the sense of belonging; this is evident in the fact that most of my really good friends are bohra even growing up out in the West.
I do think you are a brain dead abde and I have no problems with your beliefs as long as you don't bother me. I'm sure you know by now that devout bohras are programmed not to ask questions and shy away from a website such as this so if anyone is venturing out here, it is usually the first step towards revolt (online in my case:)) and you have a difficult job of preventing them from taking any more steps. You may feel like you are doing your Maula's work but people who are expressing their views out here or reading through the posts have already made up their mind, there is nothing you can do or say to convince them otherwise and there is nothing you can do about the onslaught of new viewers to this site after the succession dispute.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#89

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:12 pm

Bro adna_mumin,

I understand your predicament when it comes to incidents which shake your belief and that you are keen on seeing proofs of the many things that I have mentioned in my post. Brother, kindly note that whatever I have written is not on impulse but the result and information that I gathered when I was very close to the Dai's family ( I have witnessed the era of 51st and the 52nd Dai). Regarding the pre-independence scam, I don't fully recollect but it was under some scheme titled "Saifee.... something", probably Mr.Insaf who is more well versed could give the exact details of that scheme. I am pretty sure of this because one of my grandfather's distant relative who had to migrate to Pakistan was a victim.

Regarding the "Rendezvous" part, do you want me to provide photographs of YN in compromising position with the opposite sex ? You can understand that something like this is impossible. It is surprising that you do not question YN's proprietorship of a Hotel which had a full fledged liquor bar and which was ultimately sold to a smuggler but you cherry pick issues which under the circumstances could be quite true. Cant an owner of a hotel have a permanent suite for himself in his own hotel ? Some may agree and some may disagree when it comes to delicate issues and I have no problem with anyone who disagrees with me because I know what Iam saying is true and I refrain from making statements of which Iam myself unsure of !

Regarding "Mohurrum Tamasha", kindly note that in no way do I disrespect the great sacrifices made by shohadas of Karbala, in fact the ones who are showing utter disrespect and making a business out of this esteem sacrifice are the bohra clergy which is clearly visible in the manner it is held and the astronomical money which is collected in guise of "Mohurrum". No one in his right sense would ever mock this great event which is an example for future generations to come but see how the bayans have become ridiculous and how this platform is used for glorification of the Dai with very little time given on this great event. Do Bohras learn the true lesson and understand the true message of Imam Hussain (a.s.) ? They are more concerned about the 'Intezam' and Jaman which comes alongwith it. This is an issue which has been discussed exhaustively on this forum, hence I wont elaborate it further.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Communi

#90

Unread post by james » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:07 am

shehzada wrote:James - I don't need to know you, I don't want to know you and I honestly don't care about your opinions nor having a discussion with you.

Yet you went through the trouble of posting that poem. :roll: