Why No one Walks the Talk

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
shapur
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:35 am

Why No one Walks the Talk

#1

Unread post by shapur » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:07 am

Its indeed ironical that even though theres no dearth of undisclosed sympathisers for "S"KQ among the mango men with scores of them in this forum itself and also with an astronomical one million + hits on his website , he is still struggling to show publicly even a semblance of a following .The website has put up videos wherein it seems that he and his sons are simply addressing only themselves either leaning against a sofa in the living room or in the cosiness of a small visitor's hall. Where are the several hundreds and thousands who keep airing their sympathies and their acknowledgement in various groups on whatsapp and on this forum, and also keep adding their own versions and talking their own substances to lend a legitimate credibility to the stake claimed. And alas ! Why don't they Walk their Talk ???

This forum had a raging marathon debate for a nearly a year on the topic called "Kutbi Bohras" in which also a galaxy of disgruntled thinkers kept discussing and discussing a supposed rift and how they would flock over to the other side if it materialised. But nothing happened at that time and the topic fizzled out. Now when its in the open and seeing the light of day , we have them all merely hush-hushing their support but looking the other way when the callers invite them to act on it . Whats this phenomena ? Is it the fear of coercion or the lack of conviction ? In all probability it seems the latter, in an intellectual assessment. Whether its the latter or whether they are up against, as someone said " a band of robotised humans ", the "S"KQ camp should take a conscious note of the " mission impossible " and close shop, save their face, salvage whatever they can and put an end to the fiasco in the best interest of themselves and the community.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#2

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:01 am

Shapur ..I agree with all your comments except that SKQ should give up.

Even with a handful followers if he starts a new sect that is better and more sincere than mainstream Bohra, he has done his duty as a Diai, he called and if we didn't heed his call we are at loss. Have patience and if the crap remains with SMS so be it...let the cream flow to SKQ .

Best interest of the community is outside the current community.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#3

Unread post by accountability » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:34 pm

I do think that it is high time for Khuzema Qutbuddin sahib to rethink all over, As Shapur said, close the shop and move on. I have a good suggestion which is workable and also saves face for both sides. Khuzema Qutbuddin sahib goes to USA for treatment, abandon the claim silently, retires completely . Have his son in law , Syedna Muffadal's son declared mazoon. that's it. back to normal business. nitty gritty about his son's position could be worked out.

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#4

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:54 pm

Today muffadal bs has control of all the dawoodi bohra infrastructure. If these tables turn in favour of SKQ you will find SKQ followers increasing starting with kasre Aali who I am sure are more aware of the difference between the two.

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#5

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:59 pm

Why not walk the talk? Two reasons- Family & Business.

Many probably have stopped believing in anything. This side of that side doesn't matter but peace in the family matters and their business as well. Open declaration will hurt both given the repurcussions within our community. So people like me make compromises to keep family together and peace & other things don't matter.

But for those who need a faith, I am sure its more difficult choosing this side or that side given that social ostricization remains a clear and present danger.

On the question of SKQ relinquishing claim, IF indeed he has been given Nass, then there is no way he can do that. Goes against the principles. He will stay out even if he has a handful of followers.

I don't think we have heard the last from him. If this goes legal, it will be done with lot of shor share a that even the censorship from the MS camp will not work. It will splash in all mediums and will be pretty high pitched. That's when KQ can expect numbers to come in. Off course provided he is able to put a lot of evidence and arguments on the table.

Nameless
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#6

Unread post by Nameless » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:09 pm

After 52's chelum anticipate more drama. Abhi toh picture baaki hey mere dost!

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#7

Unread post by M Taha » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:03 pm

accountability wrote:I do think that it is high time for Khuzema Qutbuddin sahib to rethink all over, As Shapur said, close the shop and move on. I have a good suggestion which is workable and also saves face for both sides. Khuzema Qutbuddin sahib goes to USA for treatment, abandon the claim silently, retires completely . Have his son in law , Syedna Muffadal's son declared mazoon. that's it. back to normal business. nitty gritty about his son's position could be worked out.
br acc

most of your post from years and years are always cowardly and sounds gayish.....

Sujud
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#8

Unread post by Sujud » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:20 pm

Most of the awareness abt SKQ and scams/schemes of SMS camp is more of an urban phenomenon. People from my native place are being sent in hoardes. They are being blackmailed to go to Mumbai to do ziyarat offer gold/ money. We are getting calls from relatives everyday to stay a night or so. They have to get their cards scanned to lead a peaceful life, one member is not enuf even kids need to come.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#9

Unread post by james » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:27 pm

Sujud wrote:They are being blackmailed to go to Mumbai to do ziyarat offer gold/ money

Blackmailed with what ?

salsabeel
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:38 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#10

Unread post by salsabeel » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:51 pm

one misses the passion we read about in the heroes of history who took a stand and made a difference for the rest of us here today. I am actually surprised with the progressives who have actually taken a stand in the past and yet are still just waiting for some kind of perfection to come to them. we often forget that to achieve something great, we have to work hard to get it.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#11

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:02 am

......reformists have already taken the lead, rose, did wherever they could, lost their family connections, some invested money, risked their lives what are you talking what more do you want them to do...

Even a whole Mazoon has comedown and they cannot budge...nothing will move them....after all this Bohra Aaam admi deserve their destiny.

...the thousands of complaining Bohras who like seating on the fence and gossip kept on silently watching ...we thought they would join! pleaded them to join! pulled them to join! almost cried ....they kept on seating.

Then their masters shouted ..."ABDEEEE. Janat ma kem javu chE". ..they jumped off the fence running back to their master ...with their hands folded pleading Ji Saheb...and gave sajadu shukr.
Last edited by Bohra spring on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sujud
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#12

Unread post by Sujud » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:18 am

james wrote:
Sujud wrote:They are being blackmailed to go to Mumbai to do ziyarat offer gold/ money

Blackmailed with what ?
The blackmail is for a social well being( huge fear of baarat and jahaanam ) and as I said the awareness is very urban.
Driving force for ppl to spend so much money is beyond my comprehension

salsabeel
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:38 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#13

Unread post by salsabeel » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:39 am

Bohra spring wrote:......reformists have already taken the lead, rose, did wherever they could, lost their family connections, some invested money, risked their lives what are you talking what more do you want them to do...

Even a whole Mazoon has comedown and they cannot budge...nothing will move them....after all this Bohra Aaam admi deserve their destiny.

...the thousands of complaining Bohras who like seating on the fence and gossip kept on silently watching ...we thought they would join! pleaded them to join! pulled them to join! almost cried ....they kept on seating.

Then their masters shouted ..."ABDEEEE. Janat ma kem javu chE". ..they jumped off the fence running back to their master ...with their hands folded pleading Ji Saheb...and gave sajadu shukr.
yes, they have taken a lead, i agree, they have gone through much much turmoil, more than many would have. My question is that what is the end game they are hoping for? Are they forming their own sect or are they waiting to be an active part of dawat again? and if they are hoping to be an active part of dawat again, the fight is not over yet! this maybe the final 'war' needed to be fought, but it needs to be fought with courage and intellect. A time like this may not come by again, when you are given a choice between a true leader and a power hungry man.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#14

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:02 am

End game is what Everyone wants .....I am also not sure what the end will look like....

It can be a nightmare or dead silence .....

In 2020 can anyone imagine what this website will look like, will it be there, who will be the Diai ?

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#15

Unread post by james » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:05 am

Sujud wrote:
james wrote:
Blackmailed with what ?
The blackmail is for a social well being( huge fear of baarat and jahaanam ) and as I said the awareness is very urban.
Driving force for ppl to spend so much money is beyond my comprehension

Are they being told that " Go to Mumbai or else we give you baraat " ? :roll:

Bohra spring
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#16

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:53 am

James I reluctantly agree with your point

No there are no threats just strong insistance

I was asked by a die hard and I said what for, he said sawab I said why don't i go to madina instead

He tried taziyt , I said did Muffy come when my father died

He said but SMB was more than my father

I said well he was nowhere when I needed him pay for my education or my wellbeing

He is as import at to me as my president both have a job to do and get paid for it


The die hard was angry and walked away

So no barat yet

hsnhussain
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 7:36 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#17

Unread post by hsnhussain » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:12 am

james wrote:
Sujud wrote:They are being blackmailed to go to Mumbai to do ziyarat offer gold/ money

Blackmailed with what ?
Not exactly blackmail.
I would call it "EMOTIONAL ATYACHAR"

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#18

Unread post by Fateh » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:50 am

hsnhussain wrote:
james wrote:
Blackmailed with what ?
Not exactly blackmail.
I would call it "EMOTIONAL ATYACHAR"
No i call it LUKHAGIRI

awaken
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:42 pm

Lets take Baby steps

#19

Unread post by awaken » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:51 pm

It is next to impossible to fight kothar single-handedly.
However, a significant percentage of US determine that we will
submit a fair-share of Vajebat and will not haggle or tolerate upward pressure
in coming season, then may be a minority can assert itself from undue intimidation.
Be polite, donot bend down, walk-out....

Sujud
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#20

Unread post by Sujud » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:53 pm

To
Mr James,
Are they being told that " Go to Mumbai or else we give you baraat " ? :roll:
[/quote]


It's a very indirect pressure that's built , khidmatguzars come to give covers which vary in number 3-5 then they come to collect it if u don't put in anything , there is frown and some derogatory comment ke tame itlu nathi kari sakta maula maate. They come to ur doorstep to collect it at other times. Shehzaadas came to each house last yr to check on every bodies house they came in number7 -10 . House owner was instructed to do salaam with money. U don't want to insult anybody who has come to ur house especially when u r told they r from the family of maula whom u remember for every moment or deed. WHERE Is The FREE will

When I spoke abt my relatives their income must be maybe in 15000 or less supporting a family of 6-8 , coming to Mumbai is easily a RS 400-500 per ticket and then the staying cost is additional. I don't find this very practical

Is coming physically to Mumbai the only way to show grief / love to ur wafaat dai. If you don't go u r put thru this guilt trip, which a simple bohra falls prey to all the time. Is Offering najwas and money the only way to being accepted in our community.
Religion is abt faith ,I do not believe running around frm one place to other,in approved dress code, paying all najwas/ hakun nafs / or any kind of money makes me a more religious person . Then why is there so much of emphasis on all this.
I want to be accepted by ppl, believe in things I have been taught, I want to belong to my community . This peer pressure is what I mean by BLACKMAIL where everything starts and ends with coercion.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Lets take Baby steps

#21

Unread post by M Taha » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:35 pm

awaken wrote:It is next to impossible to fight kothar single-handedly.
However, a significant percentage of US determine that we will
submit a fair-share of Vajebat and will not haggle or tolerate upward pressure
in coming season, then may be a minority can assert itself from undue intimidation.
Be polite, donot bend down, walk-out....
Congratulations brother for your courage, you are better then many others who straight went and gave misaaq, may be they tricked in those misaaq but this is hypocrisy and not a way of aqa Hussain(S).

now my point is why to even give small percentage of a fair share of vajebaat to kothar? it is obvious all your money will be spent on their ayyashi and nothing goes to deserving people, what are you worried about? just tell them we wil give our wajebaat directly to deserving, and if they say u are not bohri any more, hand over them ITS card, saya kurta and jari wali topi, you are better of with your islamic cap and shirt and pants.

CUT MONEY SUPPY TO KOTHAAR leeches AND THEY WILL DIE

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Lets take Baby steps

#22

Unread post by think » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:51 pm

rob them too like some of the so called abdes are doing. they present themselves like they are slaves and then present a scheme to the goonda zada .the abde slave shows him another way to collect money and how he would also gain. after big money is collected, the slave abde goes into hiding and no one knows what happened to the crores collected. One such scheme was drummed up by a so called abde to build houses in indonesia. Huge amount was collected by the zada and given to this abde for the project. You guessed it. after a few months the scheme and the abde were unheard of. Many a abdes are also fleecing the zadas with their overnight rich schemes.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Lets take Baby steps

#23

Unread post by M Taha » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:08 pm

houses in indonesia?

only dumb sehzada would invest in such project.

seeker110
Posts: 1727
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Lets take Baby steps

#24

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:10 pm

When a person is dumb enough to rob the poor, Allah did not give him the brains to become entrepreneur. Easy come easy go.

SKQ Fan
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:51 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#25

Unread post by SKQ Fan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:07 pm

Bhai Seeker
It is being extremely arduous to make Abdes see the light , as Shahzada Taher Bhaisaheb said, if people are not even willing to listen how do you convince the dumb, deaf, and blind.?/ What irks me more is that even so called intelligent abdes who know the truth and in their heart of hearts know Sayedna Qutbuddin is on haq , have opened their eyes and listened to the truth , but have not opened their hearts and are unwilling to come out of their cocoons and support SKQ. This community seems doomed and deserves fraudsters and jokers like Muffy. May Allah grant a long long life to Sayedna Qutbuddin (TUS) to take the dawat to the righteous path.

Al-Muizz
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#26

Unread post by Al-Muizz » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:29 pm

james wrote:
Sujud wrote:They are being blackmailed to go to Mumbai to do ziyarat offer gold/ money

Blackmailed with what ?
"James", "James", "James", ....are you really that naive? Have you been to Nairobi and seen how your fav brother Husein Hep and his gang treat people there? I can assure you >90% of Nbo hate the bastard, but they are like the Kufis.....they just don't have the balls to take him on! He owns their homes, their money, their soul.....and then some:) Infact, Hep and his cronies make N.Korea look like mere rookies....he's a first class thug who would easily make the ranks within the dumb Talibs....comprende?:)

Now, if this can indeed happen...and I've seen it with my own eyes, then what can happen everywhere else where folks don't have any protecion? The very folks you love to kiss ass are the biggest thugs in the dawaat. There are serious problems in the dawaat administration, and we've got to address them head on, however ugly they are. Sweeping issues into your fantasy illusions, ain't gonna solve the problems.

And YES, before you go into your lanaatgate, I am an ardent follower of Mufaddal Moula TUS...:)

shehzada
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#27

Unread post by shehzada » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:23 pm

People in Udaipur seem to be doing fine during these 40 days of mourning, they seem to be walking the talk.....

http://www.udaipurtimes.com/7-couples-w ... community/

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#28

Unread post by think » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:17 pm

long live freedom and long live free thinking people anywhere in the world. am really pleased and happy to see this mass wedding.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#29

Unread post by james » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:22 am

Sujud wrote:
It's a very indirect pressure that's built , khidmatguzars come to give covers which vary in number 3-5 then they come to collect it if u don't put in anything , there is frown and some derogatory comment ke tame itlu nathi kari sakta maula maate.
" Tame itlu nathi kari sakta maula maate " is an exception and not a norm . I am not denying this incident has not happened with you but this is an one off case . Perhaps regular attendees like zinger , true_abde can share if something like this has ever happened with them . The people who go to collect the covers don't even bat an eyelid if someone doesn't offer najwa .
They come to ur doorstep to collect it at other times. Shehzaadas came to each house last yr to check on every bodies house they came in number7 -10 . House owner was instructed to do salaam with money. U don't want to insult anybody who has come to ur house especially when u r told they r from the family of maula whom u remember for every moment or deed. WHERE Is The FREE will
Sahebo from qasr did visit mumineen's houses in Sherullah Moazzam last time due to farman from Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and his Mansoos Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS . You are not aware but this led to grievances of mumineen getting solved , upliftment of mumineen who were in need also took place and I am sure more positives happened. Broaden your horizon . They came only due to farman from their Maula and no other motive .
When I spoke abt my relatives their income must be maybe in 15000 or less supporting a family of 6-8 , coming to Mumbai is easily a RS 400-500 per ticket and then the staying cost is additional. I don't find this very practical
Practicality doesn't come into the picture where religion is concerned . You may stop finding practicality in all the seven pillars of Islam if I were to ask questions on it. Although that is for a different day and a different thread .
Is coming physically to Mumbai the only way to show grief / love to ur wafaat dai.
Surely not the only way but one of the most significant ways . Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was a spiritual father. Someone who was more to them than their parents , siblings and so on . Someone aptly said " The world has lost someone great , but we have lost our world " . If one of your parents were to pass away , would you rush to them or wouldn't you ? (I don't mean disrespect with this analogy . May Allah Ta'ala give them a long life )
If you don't go u r put thru this guilt trip, which a simple bohra falls prey to all the time.
The conversation started with you claiming people were blackmailed. Then it was indirect due to fear of baraat . You really sound pathetic when you mention guilt trip is the reason people flocked to their Maula.
Is Offering najwas and money the only way to being accepted in our community.
No . In miqaats of Syedna saheb TUS , if you give najwa shukr , the next person next to you wouldn't even care nor does the person collecting it . He doesn't exclaim " Hey Mubarak Mubarak . Now you are accepted in the Bohra Community ." nor is there a Drum Roll when you offer Najwa . Stop overhyping an amal . It is voluntary . Acceptance doesn't depend on you giving najwa shukr .

Religion is abt faith ,I do not believe running around frm one place to other,in approved dress code, paying all najwas/ hakun nafs / or any kind of money makes me a more religious person . Then why is there so much of emphasis on all this.
If spending in the way of Allah Ta'ala is not related to religiousness then Allah Ta'ala in his infinite wisdom wouldn't have deemed it so important . You are free to believe whatever you like but don't belittle those who act contradictory to your beliefs . For them , pleasing Allah Ta'ala is more important than pleasing you .
I want to be accepted by ppl, believe in things I have been taught, I want to belong to my community . This peer pressure is what I mean by BLACKMAIL where everything starts and ends with coercion.
There is absolutely no coercion in giving of najwa shukr .

WYP
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#30

Unread post by WYP » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:51 am

There are voluntary donors of najwa and silat. People that give thousands upon thousands. You will be asked to give najwa, but if you choose not to give anything, nobody cares. Stop over-dramatizing by calling it 'BLACKMAIL'.