Why No one Walks the Talk

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#31

Unread post by think » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:56 am

james you are wrong. There is big cohersion. So much is this money grabbing that the goonda kothar even wants you to pay up for those so called qasre aali who are absent. My personal experience on two occasions. ziafat najwa was negotiated by the goonda committee weeks in advance. early morning on the day of ziafat phone call comes from the goonda member, price has gone up because of more demand. Pay up or we go to the higher bidder. I am between a rock and a hard place. Invitations have been sent and food has been ordered. To save myself from embarrassment , somehow I have to come up with the extra cash at this last moment.
Believe it or not but this is what happened.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#32

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:23 am

james wrote:
Sujud wrote: Practicality doesn't come into the picture where religion is concerned . You may stop finding practicality in all the seven pillars of Islam if I were to ask questions on it. Although that is for a different day and a different thread .
That is because of your lack of understanding. For example, when Allah talks about Hajj in the Quran, he specifies that do it if you have the means. When he commands fasting he specified that you can make up your fasts later on when travelling or sick.

Apparently, james is still having difficulty in figuring out whether he should believe that the sun and moon went dark when my grand daddy expired or not. He is thinking... hmmm even though it is not practical, maybe it happened. :wink:

WYP
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#33

Unread post by WYP » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:31 am

If Ibne Ziyad was practical, he would have waited until he had the means to go see the Imam.
The old woman would also have waited to do ziyarat of Imam Husain.
Wallahi hal-id-deeno illal hub.
Oh but I forgot, there is no such thing as valayat in your version of Islam.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#34

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:32 am

Religion is abt faith ,I do not believe running around frm one place to other,in approved dress code, paying all najwas/ hakun nafs / or any kind of money makes me a more religious person . Then why is there so much of emphasis on all this.
If spending in the way of Allah Ta'ala is not related to religiousness then Allah Ta'ala in his infinite wisdom wouldn't have deemed it so important . You are free to believe whatever you like but don't belittle those who act contradictory to your beliefs . For them , pleasing Allah Ta'ala is more important than pleasing you .
najwas/hakun nafs, etc is not the same as spending in the way of Allah. Allah has very well specified how one can spend in his way in the Quran. Infact, pretty much all bohras, other than a few blind ones like james know where the majority of the money collected from the abdes goes. It doesn't get spent in the way of Allah Ta'ala but gets spent in the way of the luxuries of the royal mafia clergy.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#35

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:33 am

There is no such thing as valayat in the Quran. And unless we are talking about a "bolta Quran" who is now underground, there is only one version of that.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#36

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:40 am

These idiots claim that the money collected gets spent on bohras themselves and then talk about impracticality in religion. Ever wonder, why it has to be practical when collecting money is concerned? Can the Dai not spend money on bohras without first collecting it from them?

Let us see how far this impracticality takes them.

WYP
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#37

Unread post by WYP » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:04 pm

There will always be a disagreement between yours and our version of Islam. Your version looks at only Quran and we look at Quran and Rasulullah's itrat. No point in further discussion.

Our impracticality has got us to levels way beyond your reach. Our Maula has achieved for us a lofty status that is a shining example for the rest of the ummah. Your ummah leaders have attested to that in these last 40 days.

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#38

Unread post by wise_guy » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:22 pm

WYP wrote:There will always be a disagreement between yours and our version of Islam. Your version looks at only Quran and we look at Quran and Rasulullah's itrat. No point in further discussion.

Our impracticality has got us to levels way beyond your reach. Our Maula has achieved for us a lofty status that is a shining example for the rest of the ummah. Your ummah leaders have attested to that in these last 40 days.
the fight here is not between bohras and non bohras. The fight here is about gross corruption, money and power hungriness in the dawat etc, gross misappropriation of funds, beastly treatment of common bohras at the hand of clergy (Aamils etc). A common bohra is never at peace due some or the other diktats from the jamat or kothar. This view however, is not shared by the rich n mighty sheikhs and abdes as they hardly have any monetary problems. So WYP: if you are one of them, then you will never understand that.

WYP
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#39

Unread post by WYP » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:34 pm

I am neither rich, nor mighty, nor a sheikh. I am as common as you can get.

There is no doubt corruption and misuse of funds by some individuals. But the amount of hype here would lead you to believe that there is nothing but corruption among bohras. If there were so many ills in the community, you would not see thousands of mumineen converge upon Mumbai in these last 40 days. Where are they coming from and why? Is everyone that flocked to Mumbai (for a two second shot at ziyarat and a fleeting glimpse of Syedna) rich, mighty and a sheikh? Why? Why did all these people spend all the money to travel to Mumbai?

Fatema MN
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#40

Unread post by Fatema MN » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:56 pm

I hope that most came to Mumbai during the last 40 days because of their love for Burhanuddin Moula, but I am sure that many came because it was a 'farmaan' and their aamil did not want his report to look bad. These people who can't afford frequent trips, might have preferred to come at a later date when it was more suitable for their pockets or when the crowds thinned a bit and they got more than just a "two second shot at the ziyarat"! I know someone from the US who had just returned from a trip to India 2 days before Moula's wafat and he was sent packing back to Mumbai immediately by the aamil. I'm sure if he was given a choice, he may have preferred to travel at a later date.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#41

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:13 pm

Our impracticality has got us to levels way beyond your reach. Our Maula has achieved for us a lofty status that is a shining example for the rest of the ummah. Your ummah leaders have attested to that in these last 40 days.
I wouldn't wish my enemies to reach those levels. Imagine your impractical "ghanoo jivo" chants for decades. What did they achieve? Nada! My Ummah leaders who have attested to the shining example of your corrupt leaders are probably just as corrupt.

Everything the bohra leadership dreams up starts and ends with collecting money. Next time, instead of money, try taking some flowers. See what happens.

WYP
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#42

Unread post by WYP » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:41 pm

Fatema MN wrote:I hope that most came to Mumbai during the last 40 days because of their love for Burhanuddin Moula, but I am sure that many came because it was a 'farmaan' and their aamil did not want his report to look bad. These people who can't afford frequent trips, might have preferred to come at a later date when it was more suitable for their pockets or when the crowds thinned a bit and they got more than just a "two second shot at the ziyarat"! I know someone from the US who had just returned from a trip to India 2 days before Moula's wafat and he was sent packing back to Mumbai immediately by the aamil. I'm sure if he was given a choice, he may have preferred to travel at a later date.
A lot of opinions in the above statement! You are sure..? Based on what?

Fact is that a lot of people travelled to Mumbai. Based on my personal experience, there was no compulsion to travel. I travelled along with my family from the US.

The conclusion I draw is that people travelled because of their love for Maulana Burhanuddin and to express solidarity with Syedna Mufaddal.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#43

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:46 pm

Based on my personal experience, everyone was coerced into travelling. The conclusion I draw is that this was done to fool the rest into believing that SMS has a lot of support from his abdes.

WYP
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#44

Unread post by WYP » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:50 pm

anajmi wrote: I wouldn't wish my enemies to reach those levels. Imagine your impractical "ghanoo jivo" chants for decades. What did they achieve? Nada! My Ummah leaders who have attested to the shining example of your corrupt leaders are probably just as corrupt.

Everything the bohra leadership dreams up starts and ends with collecting money. Next time, instead of money, try taking some flowers. See what happens.
My 'impractical ghanoo jivo' chants were a Doa to Allah to prolong the life of my Maula. Would you consider practicalities in asking from Allah?

At the end of the day, we are who we are. Tamaro firqo tamne mubarak.

WYP
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#45

Unread post by WYP » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:52 pm

anajmi wrote:Based on my personal experience, everyone was coerced into travelling. The conclusion I draw is that this was done to fool the rest into believing that SMS has a lot of support from his abdes.
:roll:

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#46

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:57 pm

My 'impractical ghanoo jivo' chants were a Doa to Allah to prolong the life of my Maula. Would you consider practicalities in asking from Allah?
It would be extremely stupid not to. Imagine asking for a long life of suffering ta qayamat, living in a vegetative state where all you can do is mumble!! And all this after Allah has made it clear in the Quran that every soul has to taste death. It would've been more practical to ask Allah to make your Maula independent of your najwas and salaams so you could use the money for more practical purposes like actually helping those in need!!
Tamaro firqo tamne mubarak.
Firela firqa ne seedhu karwu zaroori che.
Last edited by anajmi on Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sujud
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#47

Unread post by Sujud » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:59 pm

WYP wrote:
anajmi wrote:Based on my personal experience, everyone was coerced into travelling. The conclusion I draw is that this was done to fool the rest into believing that SMS has a lot of support from his abdes.
:roll:
I totally agree with you Anajmi coming to someone house at 12am for signature is not voluntary. And most of them who cameto mumbai were due to sheer fear of card swipe or faceboycott

bohra_manus
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#48

Unread post by bohra_manus » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:23 pm

Fatema MN wrote:I hope that most came to Mumbai during the last 40 days because of their love for Burhanuddin Moula, but I am sure that many came because it was a 'farmaan' and their aamil did not want his report to look bad. These people who can't afford frequent trips, might have preferred to come at a later date when it was more suitable for their pockets or when the crowds thinned a bit and they got more than just a "two second shot at the ziyarat"! I know someone from the US who had just returned from a trip to India 2 days before Moula's wafat and he was sent packing back to Mumbai immediately by the aamil. I'm sure if he was given a choice, he may have preferred to travel at a later date.
I am repeating this as I wrote it in another thread:
In one city in India, the jammat committee (& local Aamil) are recording the following information about each family:
-- did you attend Maulana's janaza procession in Mumbai or the realy in local masjid?
-- how many in your family have done the ziyarat of SMB and SMT in Mumbai?
-- how many in your family plan to attend the Chehlum in Mumbai?
(They are insisting that all/some members must attend the Chehlum)

Please don't tell me that folks are flocking there by choice.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#49

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:37 pm

WYP wrote:
Fatema MN wrote:I hope that most came to Mumbai during the last 40 days because of their love for Burhanuddin Moula, but I am sure that many came because it was a 'farmaan' and their aamil did not want his report to look bad. These people who can't afford frequent trips, might have preferred to come at a later date when it was more suitable for their pockets or when the crowds thinned a bit and they got more than just a "two second shot at the ziyarat"! I know someone from the US who had just returned from a trip to India 2 days before Moula's wafat and he was sent packing back to Mumbai immediately by the aamil. I'm sure if he was given a choice, he may have preferred to travel at a later date.
A lot of opinions in the above statement! You are sure..? Based on what?

Fact is that a lot of people travelled to Mumbai. Based on my personal experience, there was no compulsion to travel. I travelled along with my family from the US.

The conclusion I draw is that people travelled because of their love for Maulana Burhanuddin and to express solidarity with Syedna Mufaddal.

WYP...I was informed by many that the only reason they went within the first 40 days was because they were pressured into going by the aamil. So Fatema MN is only expressing an informed opinion. Most people I spoke to, would have rather waited and they felt less supportive of Mufaddal Bhaisaheb after their crazy trips....Regardless, it is not a point I wish to belabor. Just relating what people who made flyby trips to half way around the world told me. Just because it was convenient for you to travel, does not mean that it was convenient or affordable for everyone else.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#50

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:16 pm

Why is there so much apathy among the clearly disgruntled Bohras? Why are they not taking action to change their community life? If it because it is just easier to show up for the latest Muffy movie, sit in a dark room and read your email/surf the web on your phone rather than actually do something about improving the quality of spiritual experience?
The spiritual experience in the SKQ camp is pristine, short and engaging. Fence sitters should try it. You will never want to go back to the 6 hour yawners at the Muffy masjids again.

shehzada
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#51

Unread post by shehzada » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:24 pm

I'm not a Muffy supporter but the vast majority of people in America who went to Mumbai in the last month went because they drank the Najmi/Muffy Koolaid and it is not possible to talk reason with most of them because just talking about their faith is considered some sort of "shirk". There are a significant amount of people sitting on the fence like me who are doing the bare minimum to avoid harassment or pressure but doubt those people are making trips half away across the globe. In the end, our opinions are based on personal experiences so I am not surprised if people are indeed coerced into going, just not the ones I know.

Maqbool
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#52

Unread post by Maqbool » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:25 am

WYP wrote:There will always be a disagreement between yours and our version of Islam. Your version looks at only Quran and we look at Quran and Rasulullah's itrat. No point in further discussion.

Our impracticality has got us to levels way beyond your reach. Our Maula has achieved for us a lofty status that is a shining example for the rest of the ummah. Your ummah leaders have attested to that in these last 40 days.
May be you are really blind or pertaining to be. The people reach to Mumbai is not because of there will. That is because there was a systematic propaganda by local Amils, who were advised by the kothar. I know many in my town has taken loan or given help by individual to go. They have been so emotionally convinced that if they are not gone, Their belief in Dai and Imam will vanished. (Tamaro aqido majboot karo)

The motive behind this convincing is only money making. They put money in Golak, they buy Gilaf and do salam to kasreali.

James if you wants to see what ehsan Dai has done so far you can refer a list published on some other topic on this forum. You will not find a single one other then imaginary. And this list is prepared by Gulam (abde). The Dai is only to take money and give imaginary ehsanat.

Maqbool
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#53

Unread post by Maqbool » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:33 am

WYP wrote:There are voluntary donors of najwa and silat. People that give thousands upon thousands. You will be asked to give najwa, but if you choose not to give anything, nobody cares. Stop over-dramatizing by calling it 'BLACKMAIL'.
Who ask you to give najawa?
The Amil.
And who is Amil?
He is representative of, to who you are offering najwa.
Najwa means gift, and a honorable person will never say that give me gift. This is the simple logic and I wish it reaches in your so corrupted mind. May Allah give you courage to understand this.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#54

Unread post by james » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:48 am

Maqbool wrote: I know many in my town has taken loan or given help by individual to go.
Subanallah ! What Aqeedat ! They are steadfast towards their Maula in times of hardship as well . Subanallah !

hasman001
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#55

Unread post by hasman001 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:34 am

Seriously is james ki yahan kuch chal nai rahi but he is still trying to save his job with the kothar. LOL its really funny how he avoids questions such as Qasr e Aali's business or where do they get the money to enjoy their luxurious lifestyles but very actively tries to defend other points where he has some leeway. Really dude you are doing a terrible job in defending the kothar. If I was your master..i would fire you and hire someone better

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#56

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:03 am

james are you seriously hired by kothar???? :lol: :lol: are the recruitment still on???

and by the way people who pointing at james; Can I say you all are appointed by the Udaipuri jamat or Insaf to defame the Dawat...

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#57

Unread post by Smart » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:11 am

WYP wrote:I am neither rich, nor mighty, nor a sheikh. I am as common as you can get.

There is no doubt corruption and misuse of funds by some individuals. But the amount of hype here would lead you to believe that there is nothing but corruption among bohras. If there were so many ills in the community, you would not see thousands of mumineen converge upon Mumbai in these last 40 days. Where are they coming from and why? Is everyone that flocked to Mumbai (for a two second shot at ziyarat and a fleeting glimpse of Syedna) rich, mighty and a sheikh? Why? Why did all these people spend all the money to travel to Mumbai?
By your logic, I can show you pictures of bigger flocks of sheep being led to the abattoir. Why? Why do the sheep take the effort to walk all the way?

hasman001
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#58

Unread post by hasman001 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:14 am

You really think udaipur jamaat or S. Insaf has that kind of money to hire people on their behalf? Esp when they have been socially and commercially boycotted by mainstream bohras! Guess again junior

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#59

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:17 am

You mean to say udaipuri jamaats doesnt have an administration. What is the relation of them being socially boycotted. The members still have thier own businesses.....

I guess there is no relation of social boycott with their individual business...

Maqbool
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Why No one Walks the Talk

#60

Unread post by Maqbool » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:22 am

james wrote:Subanallah ! What Aqeedat ! They are steadfast towards their Maula in times of hardship as well . Subanallah !
James are you dumb. Don't you see the poor gullible bohras are burdens to take loan, and even somebody sponsored they have to spend some amount from their pocket. No they are not steadfast but they are gullible and are exploited by cult like religious leaders. Their burden will not be taken care by MSbs, but they will spend their few years to repay the loans and then after another drama will start.