Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#121

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:41 pm

fulan ibn fulan wrote:Can you tell me what your definition of Kothar is because I think it is different from mine.
Can you give me the meaning of the word "Kothar" because the last time I found out it was.....
"Meaning of "KOTHAR (कोठार)" in HindiMeaning of "KOTHAR (कोठार)" in English.NounBarnWarehouseGranaryअन्न,धन आदि रखने का स्थान।अन्न,धन आदि रखने का स्थान।

http://shabdkosh.raftaar.in/Meaning-of-KOTHAR-in-Hindi

fulan ibn fulan
Posts: 51
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#122

Unread post by fulan ibn fulan » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:06 pm

I can't read gujrati, but I was brought up with the Word Kothar meaning the people who travel with Maula and are in his khidmat.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#123

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:25 pm

fulan ibn fulan wrote:I can't read gujrati, but I was brought up with the Word Kothar meaning the people who travel with Maula and are in his khidmat.
I wouldn't like to comment on the above but would like to state that please be a little well informed and try to think out of the box and also explore the outer world. I know that you are well informed in other worldly matters but please do a comparative study of religion and just don't believe in whatever others say (including me), be unbiased (especially to other sects), think logically and rationally. This will broaden your outlook. My comments are not a rebuttal of your above quote and probably off topic but whatever I have said is based on my personal experience.

BTW, The literal meaning of "Kothar" is Barn, warehouse, Granary........ a place where grain and wealth is stored.

Maqbool
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#124

Unread post by Maqbool » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:43 am

fulan ibn fulan wrote:Laanat is reserved for someone who does dawo on Haq na Saheb. Therefore Laanat is allowed. Yes, it is a strong word but we are simply going by our religion and what the educated (Religiously) people tell us to do. Mumineen haven't just started this abuse ourselves and for the first few days there was no laanat, an official statement was released that it is okay to say laanat on him.
OK excepted. Now see other way round. Dawo on haq na saheb is from the other end also. Why they have not gone the cheap way, you have gone. One of Amil has said KQ bs Bobra. According to you:
fulan ibn fulan wrote:Mumineen haven't just started this abuse ourselves and for the first few days there was no laanat, an official statement was released that it is okay to say laanat on him.
It means you got license officially to abuse a person who was your mazoon till SMB saheb alive. You point out his physical defects, and that too by an Amil. He must have received this instructions because without raza he can not go his own. Now please tell me if some one abuse SMB saheb for same defect in his last days how you will feel? Do you think that MS bs should tender an apology in public.

zinger
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#125

Unread post by zinger » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:51 am

Maqbool bhai, sorry to jump in on the conversation but enough and more fun was made of Burhanuddin Maula RA and his last days and his ill health. it wont take too much effort to dig it out.
as for how we felt. we felt so hurt and pained, but we swallowed our pain and kept quiet for the sake of our Maula because any retaliation from our end would have led to him being abused and mocked even more

Sujud
Posts: 28
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#126

Unread post by Sujud » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:06 am

zinger wrote:Maqbool bhai, sorry to jump in on the conversation but enough and more fun was made of Burhanuddin Maula RA and his last days and his ill health. it wont take too much effort to dig it out.
as for how we felt. we felt so hurt and pained, but we swallowed our pain and kept quiet for the sake of our Maula because any retaliation from our end would have led to him being abused and mocked even more
So 2 wrongs make 1 right. Doesnt justify the laanat nor comments on physical disability

zinger
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#127

Unread post by zinger » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:45 am

Sujud wrote:
zinger wrote:Maqbool bhai, sorry to jump in on the conversation but enough and more fun was made of Burhanuddin Maula RA and his last days and his ill health. it wont take too much effort to dig it out.
as for how we felt. we felt so hurt and pained, but we swallowed our pain and kept quiet for the sake of our Maula because any retaliation from our end would have led to him being abused and mocked even more
So 2 wrongs make 1 right. Doesnt justify the laanat nor comments on physical disability
i agree with you. nothing can justify the laanat or comment on ones physical diability. but these started only post 17th Jan.

The abuse and mockery of the condition of Burhanudidn Maula RA has been on for many years now

Also, if you will read any of my posts, i have refrained from showering laanat on one who we considered as Mazun. I have gotten in debates on this with many of my fellow brothers in faith.

even today, read my posts, i still refer to him as ex-Mazun Maula. Not as SKQ or KQ or anything else derogatory. Even today, for me PERSONALLY, it is is Mufaddal Maula and ex-Mazun Maula

Maqbool
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#128

Unread post by Maqbool » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:32 am

zinger wrote:Also, if you will read any of my posts, i have refrained from showering laanat on one who we considered as Mazun. I have gotten in debates on this with many of my fellow brothers in faith.
My post was addressed to fulan and as you have not shower lanat, similarly I have never mocked ill health. Here fulan says that they have acted because they have been given green signals. that is the reason to my post.

Please understand that many minds comes here. some are aggressive and some are mild. If you consider fulan as knowledgeable then he should respect the others. KQ bs side is also claiming daiship and many have given him misaq. A learned man will always respect the feeling of others.

zinger
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#129

Unread post by zinger » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:45 am

Maqbool bhai, my post was never targetted to you, but to the reformist population in general. i agree and accept it was targetted to fulan bhai, which is why you will see i "aplogised for jumping in"

if you say that you have never mocked Maula's ill health, then im glad for that and i shall accept what u say.

and yes, i do consider James and Fulan to be knowledgeable, relative to me atleast. as for respecting others... i am afraid i cannot say anything for or about that on his behalf, but yes, they are exercising far more decency than many others here

i am not defending them here, (before someone starts calling me a Kothar lackey), but just pointing out a fact. I agree, tempers are running high right now and many see ex-Mazun Maula as an evil villain and abuse him, but for that and over that, i have no control or say

fulan ibn fulan
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#130

Unread post by fulan ibn fulan » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:49 am

Ghulam, Kothar was also a cananite God, but that doesn't mean the Kothar are based on him does it? Everything has to be taken into context. There is a surname Kothari now in India and the original Kothari were care-takers for the Kings palace. Although it seems to me that a lot of people assume that they are infact cunning,devious people who take money from people. I don't know if you know any people from Kothar, maybe you should actually ask them what they do.

Maqbool, I understand why KQ didn't do laanat, he had fear for himself and his followers, I can understand that given that we heavily out weigh them in numbers but all these attacks on his supporters should not reflect badly on the community as a whole, all those people burning his effigies were doing it on their own accord, not because of farmaan. Muffadal Maula would never say ke logo ne pakri ne marjo.

I don't want to sit here and keep justifying the laanats because I personally feel it is okay and I have said this before, I don't want to keep repeating myself and let the same arguement keep coming back. Zinger I totally agree with you that people used to make fun of Burhannuddin Maula on this forum long beofore his wafaat. But I just have to ask, why do you have that view on someone who went against maula directly?

Just out of curiosity, I know that before wafaat there used to be many forums on Muffadal Maula, were there any which were solely dedicated to KQ? It seems he has become the topic of conversation now, but before when did you talk about him? And also again just out of curiousity, could someone send me a link if any, which was written before wafaat on how they thought the nass was staged, and an orchastated attemt to take control of dawat?

think_for_yourself
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#131

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:30 am

Fulan Bhai, prior to the declaration by Syedna Qutbuddin, we were not posting nor reading this forum. Many thinking families were discussing and questioning the nass. One other person I know also did not give misaaq ever since they inserted the mansoos bit in it. So perhaps you lapped up the whole nass drama like a faithful pet. Most thinking families did not. When we learned of the nass on Qutbuddin Moula, we felt vindicated and started speaking out. We had started withdrawing from the community long before SKQ declaration and I imagine that we would have stopped going altogether anyway after MS took over. Luckily the decision was made easy.

Also Fulan Bhai, the actions of MS followers are a reflection of their "Moula" and the dignified behavior of SKQ is a reflection of his dawat.

true_bohra
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#132

Unread post by true_bohra » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:36 am

I am just trying to put my perspective to this. This forum has always shown concerned about activities of Kothar and the community on the whole. Every act of Dai has been criticised on this platform despite it being a good initiative.

Now they feel very bad when KQ's name is distorted or taken in disrespectful manner but they fail to observe that this forum has always mocked Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and is still using distorted name for Aaliqadar Maula TUS.

After the demise of Muqaddas Maula RA, as we know that the community is split into two sects and most of the reformist have saturated with the KQ camp. So now as you believe in KQ as your Dai then I do not understand why this forum is so much concerned about Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS and Kothar.

Your community is now kothar free and you can enjoy any type of freedom under the reign of your so called alleged Dai KQ who is progressive and his sons holding PhD. They will suffice your needs and objects for your so called community

fulan ibn fulan
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#133

Unread post by fulan ibn fulan » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:45 am

think for yourself, while you were not posting I am sure others were, which is simply why I asked. We lapped it up? KQ followers did exactly the same thing, so I don't understand how you can insult us for listening to someone when you do the same? I keep posting about double standards although it obviously is having no effect.
So the actions of Muffadal Maula's supporters is a reflection on Muffadal Maula himself, By that same logic, Al-Qaeda, Taliba, Hamas, Al-Shabab are all a reflection on Khuda, his Prophet, and his Quran? KKK and Nazis are a reflection of Isa Nabi? NauzoBillah. Muslims as a whole hate when they are judged by the actions of a few nutters, so please show us the curtousy and don't judge true dawoodi bohras on the actions of a few nutters.

True_Bohra, you have hit the nail on the head, reformists have always been concerened about our actions and now they have their own leader they still can't stop talking about us.

Akhtiar Wahid
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#134

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:53 am

True_bohra the way you speak on this forum on each and every thread u sound like an educated and well mannered person, the only problem with you is accepting the problems and flaws in our dawat. You and many of the bohras cannot deny the fact that our community is corrupted like a rotten tomato filled with bugs and leeches sucking out each and every penny out of each and every bohra mumin. let me tell you again people on this forum are not fighting for who is Dai and who is not?, they are fighting for their basic human rights and prosperous living conditions, compare ourselves with other sects for example Nizaris, they have proper welfare system, with health care associated to their community members which is free of charge, several schools and educational institutions, giving allowances to community members for studies abroad and looking after each and every family of their community. But in our case it is all about extortion and extraction from people and never giving back in any form, there is only a show of giving back to people which is obviously for the benefit of them. So True_Bohra whoever the Dai be he should be for the people and always caring towards his small and lovely community.

Akhtiar Wahid
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#135

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:56 am

fulan ibn fulan wrote:think for yourself, while you were not posting I am sure others were, which is simply why I asked. We lapped it up? KQ followers did exactly the same thing, so I don't understand how you can insult us for listening to someone when you do the same? I keep posting about double standards although it obviously is having no effect.
So the actions of Muffadal Maula's supporters is a reflection on Muffadal Maula himself, By that same logic, Al-Qaeda, Taliba, Hamas, Al-Shabab are all a reflection on Khuda, his Prophet, and his Quran? KKK and Nazis are a reflection of Isa Nabi? NauzoBillah. Muslims as a whole hate when they are judged by the actions of a few nutters, so please show us the curtousy and don't judge true dawoodi bohras on the actions of a few nutters.

True_Bohra, you have hit the nail on the head, reformists have always been concerened about our actions and now they have their own leader they still can't stop talking about us.
Fulan ibn Fulan in this case Dawoodi bohras are the nutters :mrgreen:

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#136

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:41 pm

fulan ibn fulan wrote:Ghulam, Kothar was also a cananite God, but that doesn't mean the Kothar are based on him does it? Everything has to be taken into context.
That's the reason I asked you to first tell me the meaning of Kothar when you wanted to know my views on them.
fulan ibn fulan wrote:Can you tell me what your definition of Kothar is because I think it is different from mine.

zinger
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#137

Unread post by zinger » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:50 am

fulan ibn fulan wrote:Ghulam, Kothar was also a cananite God, but that doesn't mean the Kothar are based on him does it? Everything has to be taken into context. There is a surname Kothari now in India and the original Kothari were care-takers for the Kings palace. Although it seems to me that a lot of people assume that they are infact cunning,devious people who take money from people. I don't know if you know any people from Kothar, maybe you should actually ask them what they do.

Maqbool, I understand why KQ didn't do laanat, he had fear for himself and his followers, I can understand that given that we heavily out weigh them in numbers but all these attacks on his supporters should not reflect badly on the community as a whole, all those people burning his effigies were doing it on their own accord, not because of farmaan. Muffadal Maula would never say ke logo ne pakri ne marjo.

I don't want to sit here and keep justifying the laanats because I personally feel it is okay and I have said this before, I don't want to keep repeating myself and let the same arguement keep coming back. Zinger I totally agree with you that people used to make fun of Burhannuddin Maula on this forum long beofore his wafaat. But I just have to ask, why do you have that view on someone who went against maula directly?

Just out of curiosity, I know that before wafaat there used to be many forums on Muffadal Maula, were there any which were solely dedicated to KQ? It seems he has become the topic of conversation now, but before when did you talk about him? And also again just out of curiousity, could someone send me a link if any, which was written before wafaat on how they thought the nass was staged, and an orchastated attemt to take control of dawat?
Fulan bhai, i think what you mean to ask is an extremely personal question and i would have preferred to not answer it here. since you ask me however, here it is.

I have given my Misaq to Mufaddal Maula. So you know where i stand

I cannot and will bring myself to give Lanat to ex Mazun Maula for the simple reason that as long as Burhanuddin Maula RA was alive, he kept him near him. Reasons best known to him.

I am not believing nor am i denying any of the rumours/proofs/stories/justifications/validations etc being placed.

As of now, only Allah knows who the true Dai is. If people knew who the true Dai was, there would be no split.

zinger
Posts: 2031
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#138

Unread post by zinger » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:52 am

fulan ibn fulan wrote:Ghulam, Kothar was also a cananite God, but that doesn't mean the Kothar are based on him does it? Everything has to be taken into context. There is a surname Kothari now in India and the original Kothari were care-takers for the Kings palace. Although it seems to me that a lot of people assume that they are infact cunning,devious people who take money from people. I don't know if you know any people from Kothar, maybe you should actually ask them what they do.

Maqbool, I understand why KQ didn't do laanat, he had fear for himself and his followers, I can understand that given that we heavily out weigh them in numbers but all these attacks on his supporters should not reflect badly on the community as a whole, all those people burning his effigies were doing it on their own accord, not because of farmaan. Muffadal Maula would never say ke logo ne pakri ne marjo.

I don't want to sit here and keep justifying the laanats because I personally feel it is okay and I have said this before, I don't want to keep repeating myself and let the same arguement keep coming back. Zinger I totally agree with you that people used to make fun of Burhannuddin Maula on this forum long beofore his wafaat. But I just have to ask, why do you have that view on someone who went against maula directly?

Just out of curiosity, I know that before wafaat there used to be many forums on Muffadal Maula, were there any which were solely dedicated to KQ? It seems he has become the topic of conversation now, but before when did you talk about him? And also again just out of curiousity, could someone send me a link if any, which was written before wafaat on how they thought the nass was staged, and an orchastated attemt to take control of dawat?

Yes, i believe there were some threads and discussions on ex-Mazun Maula being considered as the new Dai

DB- MUMBAIKAR
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:20 am

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#139

Unread post by DB- MUMBAIKAR » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:13 am

zinger wrote:
fulan ibn fulan wrote:Ghulam, Kothar was also a cananite God, but that doesn't mean the Kothar are based on him does it? Everything has to be taken into context. There is a surname Kothari now in India and the original Kothari were care-takers for the Kings palace. Although it seems to me that a lot of people assume that they are infact cunning,devious people who take money from people. I don't know if you know any people from Kothar, maybe you should actually ask them what they do.

Maqbool, I understand why KQ didn't do laanat, he had fear for himself and his followers, I can understand that given that we heavily out weigh them in numbers but all these attacks on his supporters should not reflect badly on the community as a whole, all those people burning his effigies were doing it on their own accord, not because of farmaan. Muffadal Maula would never say ke logo ne pakri ne marjo.

I don't want to sit here and keep justifying the laanats because I personally feel it is okay and I have said this before, I don't want to keep repeating myself and let the same arguement keep coming back. Zinger I totally agree with you that people used to make fun of Burhannuddin Maula on this forum long beofore his wafaat. But I just have to ask, why do you have that view on someone who went against maula directly?

Just out of curiosity, I know that before wafaat there used to be many forums on Muffadal Maula, were there any which were solely dedicated to KQ? It seems he has become the topic of conversation now, but before when did you talk about him? And also again just out of curiousity, could someone send me a link if any, which was written before wafaat on how they thought the nass was staged, and an orchastated attemt to take control of dawat?
Fulan bhai, i think what you mean to ask is an extremely personal question and i would have preferred to not answer it here. since you ask me however, here it is.

I have given my Misaq to Mufaddal Maula. So you know where i stand
I cannot and will bring myself to give Lanat to ex Mazun Maula for the simple reason that as long as Burhanuddin Maula RA was alive, he kept him near him. Reasons best known to him.

I am not believing nor am i denying any of the rumours/proofs/stories/justifications/validations etc being placed.

As of now, only Allah knows who the true Dai is. If people knew who the true Dai was, there would be no split.
Zinger bhai on one hand you say that you have given misaak to Mufaddal moula thereby confirming that you believe him as the 53rd Dai after taking some very major oaths including Allah Ta'ala (i dont prefer using the word Khuda !!), Quran, eingeel, torat etc. and in the last line (quote : "only allah knows who the true Dai is") you doubt whether he is actually a Dai or not thus contradicting your own action of taking his (Mufaddal Maula) misaak. This means that your aqida towards new dai is in doubt making your misaak null & void.....

What has been inculcated since birth of every bohra in our comminuty is that once you have taken misaak of Dai, then there is no room for any doubts for any of his actions and if any doubts arises in your heart then your misaak has been broken and everything i.e. all your material wealth and even your legally wedded wife is haram on you !!!... Isn't it so ? Correct me if I m wrong...

zinger
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#140

Unread post by zinger » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:38 am

Thank you for pointing out a contradiction in my own posts DBM bhai, how very astute of you :roll:

i have given my Misaq based on my belief.

the last line is a general statement, not indicative of what i believe in or not, but to the community in general which believes differently

should have clarified this, my apologies

As for the haramness of my wife, i believe you should be more worried about the sanctity of your marriage than others. :roll:

DB- MUMBAIKAR
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:20 am

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#141

Unread post by DB- MUMBAIKAR » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:17 am

zinger wrote:Thank you for pointing out a contradiction in my own posts DBM bhai, how very astute of you :roll:

i have given my Misaq based on my belief.

the last line is a general statement, not indicative of what i believe in or not, but to the community in general which believes differently

should have clarified this, my apologies

As for the haramness of my wife, i believe you should be more worried about the sanctity of your marriage than others. :roll:
I m definately not worried nor do I care about the sanctity of anybody's marriage... least of all an unknown stranger...

You have perhaps not read my last para carefully... I have clearly made a general statement about all bohras regarding the consequence of breaking the misaak. In the last part of the misaak, they (generally the aamil in common misaak) gives us all kinds of oaths (kasam) and tell us that if we break any of the shart of the misaak then our own maal is haram on us and even our bairo is haram on us etc. etc...... (in lisaan ud-dawat zaban !!!!!)

So if you are really upset about this word (haram ness), then your anger should be directed to whoever has penned the wordings of the narration of Misaak which is read during the misaak... :|

zinger
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#142

Unread post by zinger » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:49 am

lets not get into this debate. you asked me a question. i clarified. lets end this now

SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#143

Unread post by SBM » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:14 am

[quote="zinger"]lets not get into this debate. you asked me a question. i clarified. lets end this now[/quote
As usual when faced with reality, Zinger does not want to get into this debate. It was very pertinent questions, Same way what happens to your belief of Rukku Chitti which carried Mazoon's name and now since there is no Mazoon, do you get blank chitti and no GUARANTEES OF JANNAT TO ABDES.

zinger
Posts: 2031
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#144

Unread post by zinger » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:21 am

SBM bhai, unlike you, i have no desire to bombard different topics with the same question and derail the conversation, like you are doing now.

also, lets look at facts now.

i was asked a question, i clarified, he clarified, we said fine. i decided to shake hands and move on.

you on the other hand, have this irritating habit of repeating the same question, on multiple threads over and over and over again, almost like a kid, which can be quite annoying really

and since we are on questions, my answer to you is simple. i dont know. no one has gone to see what happens after death.

now you tell me. why did you want to go to the Roza 5 years ago?

Are you going to answer me here or should i do an SBM and hound you across every post of yours?

SBM
Posts: 6350
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#145

Unread post by SBM » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:39 am

now you tell me. why did you want to go to the Roza 5 years ago?
To see the architectural work inside just like I have visited many Temples and Churches around the world too No desire to kiss the grave
And yes I will keep on irritating you just like Kothari Goons have been doing to all you Abdes and you should be used to repeated words, donot you keep on repeating Ghavo Jivo and Ta Qayamat and look what happend

seeker110
Posts: 1726
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#146

Unread post by seeker110 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:59 pm

Why is it that the abdes are not thinkinking of the poor,elders,yateem and children. All they are concerned is who gets what. None of the leaders in bohra community is doing anything but talking about people who lives of haram ki kamae. 51st onwards are haram khores. They ruined many decent families. I can list you many of them in Karachi. 51 destroyed the best of the best. None of his children stood up and backed the aam bohra. They all lived in mahail and never funded any schools yateem khana or musafir khana. I know our rasul was the richest man, once. I also know the jahaez he gave to his daughter. All good and notable leaders of Islam were poor. All rich leaders of Islam were haram khore. Education just made them better chor.

true_bohra
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Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#147

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:45 am

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:True_bohra the way you speak on this forum on each and every thread u sound like an educated and well mannered person, the only problem with you is accepting the problems and flaws in our dawat. You and many of the bohras cannot deny the fact that our community is corrupted like a rotten tomato filled with bugs and leeches sucking out each and every penny out of each and every bohra mumin. let me tell you again people on this forum are not fighting for who is Dai and who is not?, they are fighting for their basic human rights and prosperous living conditions, compare ourselves with other sects for example Nizaris, they have proper welfare system, with health care associated to their community members which is free of charge, several schools and educational institutions, giving allowances to community members for studies abroad and looking after each and every family of their community. But in our case it is all about extortion and extraction from people and never giving back in any form, there is only a show of giving back to people which is obviously for the benefit of them. So True_Bohra whoever the Dai be he should be for the people and always caring towards his small and lovely community.
Tell me where in the world you wont find corruption. Yes there is corruption in Dawat but is that a reason the Dai is abused.

You are telling me to believe that system is corrupted but on the same point you are saying that this forum is not deciding who the real Dai is? Should I give the numbers and the topics wherein this issue is discussed. You all guys are believing in what KQ is saying about secret nass but denying the signed paper of Syedna RA and terming it fake without even viewing it.

You just have to believe that this forum is not targetting the Ill practices in Dawat but only the Dai and his actions. I accepted that there are some practices in community which is not perfect but has this forum in all its threads compiled in 219 pages have appreciated the Dai and have shown a good faith towards him???

I will look forward for a abuse free answer from the members.

SBM
Posts: 6350
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#148

Unread post by SBM » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:58 am

True Bohra
The problem is Dai has not done any thing positive for us to praise him.. Let us look all his schemes and how it ended up
Qarde Hasanah- A good idea-- literally it is Qard or loan guaranteed by Allaha but Kothari Goons which include Dai asks for Gold Guarantee or post dated checks so where is the Hasanah in this formula
Dabba-Thaali Scheme; Originally it was announced as Koi Mumin Bhooko Na rahey and initially it was free to all Mumineen-good program worthy program but guess what now it is money making scheme
So ask your Masters and Dai to do some thing worthwhile then we can praise him otherwise TRUTH ALWAYS HURTS. It really hurts me to find that NO good Dai has done for the community from his own money except robbing Abdes

shehzada
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#149

Unread post by shehzada » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:46 pm

True_Bohra
If you look through the history before SMB on this forum , most of the commentators who consider themselves Bohra had always been respectful of Aqa Maula. The succession issue has clearly changed some people's mind set where they are no longer willing to give SMS the benefit of doubt around the corruption especially when it comes to his in-laws. You are accepting that part of the administration is bad and has faults yet you are not willing to put any of the blame on the administrators. If I strictly break it down in political terms, SMS is the head administrator and people are pointing fingers for how they have handled things in the last few years and especially after SMB's death.

The mainstream koolaid drinking bohras (most of my family included) sound a lot like my sunni friends who admit that many of the Islamic leaders after Rasul Allah (SAW) may have been corrupt and not deserving of the titles they gained via political maneuvering or other means but there is corruption every where and hence they choose to ignore the great injustices committed by them.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Muffy celeberate the birthday!!!

#150

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:09 pm

true_bohra wrote:Tell me where in the world you wont find corruption. Yes there is corruption in Dawat but is that a reason the Dai is abused.
If you agree that there is corruption in Dawat then who should be held responsible ?? Who heads the dawat ? Is the head not jaankar of ghaib nu ilm and masum according to present day abdes ? If a war is won then the General gets all the accolades but if it is lost then ONLY he faces the brickbats, not the soldiers ! If there are any wrongs in a corporate house then the head honcho has to face the music, not his subordinates ! As far as dawat goes, even an average bohra is aware of the rampant corruption and extortion so how come that the Dai is not aware of it ?