Taziat....What is next?

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AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#31

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:02 am

zinger wrote: We wished our teacher "Good morning teacher" every day but folded hands on special occasions like teachers day and took their blessings after my exams

Do you do salam to your parent every day on certain occasions???

Please feel free to drag it as long as you like
So if you wished orally to your teachers every day, why do you fold your hands whenever you see Dai? And why do you bend (sajda)? I presume you never bent to your teacher? or did you?

Salaam is different from folding hands. And yes, I do salam to my parents every day because they gave me birth. No other human being on this planet enjoys the position higher than my parents for me.

Maula na qadmo na neeche daulat che.
Maa na qadmo na neeche jannat che.

It is obvious for me (and any other sane person) as to who enjoys the highest position in one's life. And since you might not be able to comprehend that, it is one's "Maa" and "Bawa".

zinger
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#32

Unread post by zinger » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:12 am

AgnosticTheist wrote:
zinger wrote: We wished our teacher "Good morning teacher" every day but folded hands on special occasions like teachers day and took their blessings after my exams

Do you do salam to your parent every day on certain occasions???

Please feel free to drag it as long as you like
So if you wished orally to your teachers every day, why do you fold your hands whenever you see Dai because of the fact that he is the Dai? And why do you bend (sajda)? I presume you never bent to your teacher? or did you? if you consider me bending down to touch their feet and take their aashirwaad/blessings, then yes, i did

Salaam is different from folding hands. And yes, I do salam to my parents every day because they gave me birth. No other human being on this planet enjoys the position higher than my parents for me. Amazing. Truly. No sarcasm, just pure admiration

Maula na qadmo na neeche daulat che.
Maa na qadmo na neeche jannat che.

It is obvious for me (and any other sane person) as to who enjoys the highest position in one's life. And since you might not be able to comprehend that, it is one's "Maa" and "Bawa". Naturally. It is only extreme fanatics who put Dai before their parents

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#33

Unread post by james » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:25 am

AgnosticTheist wrote:
james wrote:
It is due to time constraints.

No one has " made " people to fold their hands. It is the ikhlas and adab of people which is making them do so as they realize they are approaching their Maula . A mere sign of respect.
Do you respect all your elders and teachers? Do you fold your hands in front of them as a sign of respect?

Agreed, that there is a time constraint. But then please stop calling it a Taziyat.

What has elders and teachers got to do with this ? Don't beat around the bush. Put up straight-forwarded questions and you would be rewarded with straight answers. I see you have failed miserably with zinger ,

Do you disagree that folding hands is a sign of respect ?

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#34

Unread post by M Taha » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:45 am

hey james I like your attitude of straight forwardness, seems one of your inmate true_abde already left ground, so can you please confirm on his behalf that NO money was taken in this taziyat event by any means?

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#35

Unread post by M Taha » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:47 am

james wrote:
AgnosticTheist wrote: Do you respect all your elders and teachers? Do you fold your hands in front of them as a sign of respect?

Agreed, that there is a time constraint. But then please stop calling it a Taziyat.

What has elders and teachers got to do with this ? Don't beat around the bush. Put up straight-forwarded questions and you would be rewarded with straight answers. I see you have failed miserably with zinger ,

Do you disagree that folding hands is a sign of respect ?
if there was time contrain then why people were invited from world wide in the name of taziyat, when taziyat was not even done, and it was just salaam?

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#36

Unread post by james » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:47 am

AgnosticTheist wrote:
Salaam is different from folding hands. And yes, I do salam to my parents every day because they gave me birth. No other human being on this planet enjoys the position higher than my parents for me.

Maula na qadmo na neeche daulat che.
Maa na qadmo na neeche jannat che.

It is obvious for me (and any other sane person) as to who enjoys the highest position in one's life. And since you might not be able to comprehend that, it is one's "Maa" and "Bawa".
This physical world is much more important to you than your afterlife. Your parents gave you a life of 50-60-70 years. What about the hereafter ? It is Maula ( Be it Rasullah SAW , Ameerul Mumineen AS , Fatema AS , Hasan AS , Husain AS , Noble lineage of Imams from Husain AS , his Duat Mutlaqeen RA and Dai Zaman Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS) who is shaping your afterlife. Who taught you about Islam ? You will probably say your parents. Who taught your parents ? Their grandparents ? Keep denying and go back to your ancestry and the final answer will be Duat Mutlaqeen RA .

Now the million dollar question : Which life do you hold more weightily ? This life or the next ? If indeed your answer is life after death , then the next deduced answer would be Maula !

Regarding the criterion of "sanity" , ask any Muslim , which life holds more weight ? If their answer is Afterlife , don't forget to call them Insane to their faces. I bet after that , you will start running . :mrgreen:

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#37

Unread post by james » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:51 am

M Taha wrote:hey james I like your attitude of straight forwardness, seems one of your inmate true_abde already left ground, so can you please confirm on his behalf that NO money was taken in this taziyat event by any means?

You do realize people have a life away from this forum. I suggest you try having a life. :roll:

Instead of pestering true_bohra and others , it would be wiser for you to just pick up the phone and talk to your brother in law.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#38

Unread post by M Taha » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:51 am

hey james can you post any ayat which says respect to dai and fold hands and do sajda to him?

but on other hand I can post ayat which clearly says respect your parents and talk with them in most respectful way.

so lets Quraan be judje between us.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#39

Unread post by M Taha » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:53 am

james wrote:
M Taha wrote:hey james I like your attitude of straight forwardness, seems one of your inmate true_abde already left ground, so can you please confirm on his behalf that NO money was taken in this taziyat event by any means?

You do realize people have a life away from this forum. I suggest you try having a life. :roll:

Instead of pestering true_bohra and others , it would be wiser for you to just pick up the phone and talk to your brother in law.
then what you are paid for? oh come on, if it was free why not just say it?

lets see if muffy left money on his fathers dead body and didnt charged any thing for at least taziyat.

I really want to be wrong this time in my assumption about muffy. so prove me wrong.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#40

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:08 am

I see you have not taken your medicine today. It would be very fine if you ask your brother in law whether he paid or not.

ohh sorry, do you have brother in law in real or you just hallucinating.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#41

Unread post by M Taha » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:11 am

oh ok true abde is back, so let me ask him again

ok so let me put this in straight way....

you was called for taziyat, but then due to time constraints you was asked to just do salaam, and every body did salaam with empty hands to muffy?

and no body put any money in galla or gave money to kothar whats so ever.

is that corrrect?

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#42

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:15 am

james wrote: What has elders and teachers got to do with this ? Don't beat around the bush. Put up straight-forwarded questions and you would be rewarded with straight answers. I see you have failed miserably with zinger ,

Do you disagree that folding hands is a sign of respect ?
Looks like you failed to read the posts completely. It was claimed that folding hands is a sign of respect so my question was do you fold hands in front of everyone (teachers, elders etc.) whom you respect?
james wrote:
AgnosticTheist wrote:
Salaam is different from folding hands. And yes, I do salam to my parents every day because they gave me birth. No other human being on this planet enjoys the position higher than my parents for me.

Maula na qadmo na neeche daulat che.
Maa na qadmo na neeche jannat che.

It is obvious for me (and any other sane person) as to who enjoys the highest position in one's life. And since you might not be able to comprehend that, it is one's "Maa" and "Bawa".
This physical world is much more important to you than your afterlife. Your parents gave you a life of 50-60-70 years. What about the hereafter ? It is Maula ( Be it Rasullah SAW , Ameerul Mumineen AS , Fatema AS , Hasan AS , Husain AS , Noble lineage of Imams from Husain AS , his Duat Mutlaqeen RA and Dai Zaman Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS) who is shaping your afterlife. Who taught you about Islam ? You will probably say your parents. Who taught your parents ? Their grandparents ? Keep denying and go back to your ancestry and the final answer will be Duat Mutlaqeen RA .

Now the million dollar question : Which life do you hold more weightily ? This life or the next ? If indeed your answer is life after death , then the next deduced answer would be Maula !

Regarding the criterion of "sanity" , ask any Muslim , which life holds more weight ? If their answer is Afterlife , don't forget to call them Insane to their faces. I bet after that , you will start running . :mrgreen:
It is only ALLAH who will shape my afterlife (no other human being) and if I don't keep my parents in highest regards than I am sure that Allah will not be pleased with that.

I give more importance to this life because the deeds I do now will be of importance in my afterlife. But people like you spend their whole life in slavery without applying their mind just for a good afterlife.

Oh and why are you bringing afterlife in this argument? I was comparing two human beings - Maula and Maa. With your own logic above, "Don't beat around the bush. Put up straight-forwarded questions and you would be rewarded with straight answers. I see you have failed miserably with all the sane people".

Anyways, this discussion is going off topic. Lets get back to topic. What next after Taziyat? Oh wait, it seems Karbala trip has already been announced.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#43

Unread post by M Taha » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:15 am

true_bohra wrote:I see you have not taken your medicine today. It would be very fine if you ask your brother in law whether he paid or not.

ohh sorry, do you have brother in law in real or you just hallucinating.
thanx for asking, I have already took my multivitamins and vitamin E tablets, now can you please reply my above question?

did your master left money on his fathers dead body? or did he charged in some way?

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#44

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:25 am

and what about the shocks???

are you getting on daily basis.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#45

Unread post by M Taha » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:28 am

true_bohra wrote:and what about the shocks???

are you getting on daily basis.. :lol: :lol: :lol:
well yes shocks from stupid farmaan by muffy are getting almost daily.

so back to topic, did your master charged some thing from people on his fathers dead body ? or it was free for a change?

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#46

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:53 am

But you Dont believe in him so why hear his farmaans. This is again a stupid answer from you.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#47

Unread post by M Taha » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:56 am

true_bohra wrote:But you Dont believe in him so why hear his farmaans. This is again a stupid answer from you.
but you believe in it isnt it? this is what gives me shocks.

it seems you have already wet your pants and dont want to reply my above question, dont worry let GM bhai come and shed some light.

I strongly believe muffy took money on his fathers dead body, but this time I would like to be wrong. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#48

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:03 am

GM is very subjective and would not indulge in your absurd reasoning.

faalse_ka_faasla
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:28 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#49

Unread post by faalse_ka_faasla » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:58 am

TB and zinger,
M Taha has asked a simple question and ,as always, instead of answering him you are trying to divert the topic.

SBM
Posts: 6367
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#50

Unread post by SBM » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:10 am

faalse_ka_faasla wrote:TB and zinger,
M Taha has asked a simple question and ,as always, instead of answering him you are trying to divert the topic.
Just like none of them including Adam answered my question which is again
If SMB was Ghaiab Na Jankar and Infallible, how did he not know about SKQ when he appointed him as Mazoon? Was SMB Ghaiab Na Jankar and what happens to their loved ones who are carrying Rukku Chitti with SKQ.s name on it?
Now see how Zinger and James will try to divert the topic. Zinger will do a research on my IDs while not revealing his own and James multiple IDs
Also one more interesting fact about Zinger, he always finds multiple ID problem with people who start tearing apart Kotharti Goons but not a word about multiple IDs used by Goon supporter Abdes

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#51

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:03 am

bhai sbm,

there you again, ignoring my advice to you not to waste your time with brainwashed flyweights like zinger, adam, james et al. there is nothing to be gained by discussing weighty matters such as false claims of infallibility, ghaib na jaankar, mojiza na saheb, haqiqi kaaba, sajda to charlatans and religious criminals like muffy and the 51st and 52nd etc, with such fools and fanatics.

better utilise your valuable time in spreading the news of the shirk and kufr practised by bohras under the very able leadership of their so-called mola, among the other muslim organisations with whom you have excellent contacts. its time to hit them where it hurts the most. negative publicity, denunciation by the muslim world, deportation of bohras from islamic countries and bans on the travel there of their kafir leaders. its time the bohras were declared apostates and non-muslims like the ahmediyas. bhai hussain_ksa you too should use your close connections within the saudi govt to report on the kufr, money-laundering and unislamic and unethical practices to the saudi ministry of awqaf and religious affairs.

forget about mercy and circumspection where it concerns bohras. they dont deserve any compassion or retrospection, esp. when you have rabid idiots like zinger, james, adam, true bohra and other fanatic abdes defending the shirk, loot, arrogance and ayyashi of their slave masters. i dont know what all of you reform minded bohras are waiting for. these jaahils are beyond reform. its time to take affirmative action. report them to tax commissioners, to human rights organisations, to islamic countries, to all concerned deppts around the world who can destroy this evil organisation called dawate hadiyah, which is nothing but a smokescreen for religious mafia sitting on untold billions of unaccounted and ill-gotten wealth, living a life of extreme decadence and pomp whilst treating the community as untouchables and stupid retards.

a bunch of us did manage to have the previous amil of mississauga kicked out, had the charity tax status of both mississauga and toronto jamaats cancelled and the CRA alerted to their money mismanagement. now both jamaats office bearers live in fear of more such backlashes. the pity is that the movement was not followed up as strongly as it should. i have of course left this satanic cult, but am still an involved insider when it comes to the fight for reforms. my business and other work keeps me very busy, but the day i get a little freer, i promise i will make life hell for these haramkhors.

canadian
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#52

Unread post by canadian » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:25 am

Bros. AZ and SBM:

May I respectfully request all of you to refrain from going to outside communities or governments about our problems. You know that I do not believe in and do not follow the kothari goons' idea of Islam. But I am concerned about thousands of bohras working and living in the Middle East (e.g. U A E, Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc.). Can you imagine what will happen to these poor, hard working bohras and their families in India and Pakistan, if these governments take action not only with the leaders but also against these poor people?

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#53

Unread post by think » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:38 am

mumineen are fed up of dawate haddi and chichhra. They desperately need to breathe the fresh air of freedom and would like chicken and meat for a change. I say , report to one and all organizations that can put an end to this dawate haddi and chihhra.

scared
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:01 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#54

Unread post by scared » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:51 am

Folding of hands in front of idols has always been a hindu custom. It has been recently introduced amongst the bohras because the bohras are going back to their hindu roots of worshipping human idols. This "it is a sign of respect" is hogwash. Historically, folding of hands is associated with worship and not with "respect". The folding of hands in early human history was also a mark of one man's power over another man. Subjugation of a man who was shackled with his hands folded.

A little information from whatsapp, oops sorry, Wikipedia, oops sorry, well some source that james can easily dismiss :wink:

"Religious historians trace the gesture back to the act of shackling a prisoner’s hands with vine or rope: joined hands came to symbolize submission. In ancient Rome, a captured soldier could avoid immediate death by joining the hands together. Just as waving a white flag today, the message was clear. “I surrender.” Centuries later, subjects demonstrated their loyalty and paid homage to their rulers by joining their hands. In time, clasping the hands together communicated both an acknowledgement of another’s authority and one’s own submission to that authority."

Please don't ask me which religious historians. If you care enough, find out yourself. If not, continue living like prisoners!!

SBM
Posts: 6367
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#55

Unread post by SBM » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:58 am

Br Canadian
This forum is being monitored by law enforcement agencies in USA and they are very well aware of Dawat E Hadiyah and the activities of Malek Ul Chster and his gang. I am sure with the work done by Br Oz in Australia, their law enforcement agencies are also monitoring this forum and notice all the Fraud work exposed at this forum

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#56

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:07 pm

canadian wrote:Bros. AZ and SBM:

May I respectfully request all of you to refrain from going to outside communities or governments about our problems. You know that I do not believe in and do not follow the kothari goons' idea of Islam. But I am concerned about thousands of bohras working and living in the Middle East (e.g. U A E, Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc.). Can you imagine what will happen to these poor, hard working bohras and their families in India and Pakistan, if these governments take action not only with the leaders but also against these poor people?
i am sorry bhai canadian, but i do not agree with your views. it is these same hard working bohras, (btw, most of them are not poor), who are swallowing the kufr crap of their leaders and filling their coffers. this is like saying that, allah should spare grevious sinners just because they are poor and hardworking?

what this community needs is a massive kick on its backside, let all these bohras in the gulf and middle-east return home realising it was their kufr and blind faith in their ayyash and arrogant slave masters that put them in their sorry condition. when kuwait was invaded, hundreds of thousands of indians and several thousand bohras had to return back home, literally with just a suitcase or two. allah took care of them, many returned when things settled down and normalcy was restored, many prospered in india itself and other countries. no one starved or died of misery.

when the millions of dollars in loot from the gulf and middle-east instantly dries up, then the rascals of saifee mahal will wake up and rue their arrogance and violations and insult of our deen. whether even that will serve as a jolt to them is questionable, because they are too far beyond the pale of islam and humanity to understand.

attempting to punish the kothari mafia and the dai, whilst sparing the common bohra is like trying to churn the milk without a single drop being spilt.

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#57

Unread post by alam » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:15 pm

SBM wrote:Br Canadian
This forum is being monitored by law enforcement agencies in USA and they are very well aware of Dawat E Hadiyah and the activities of Malek Ul Chster and his gang. I am sure with the work done by Br Oz in Australia, their law enforcement agencies are also monitoring this forum and notice all the Fraud work exposed at this forum

Bhai please - just wondering how do you know this. PM me please.

Bori85
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#58

Unread post by Bori85 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:35 pm

canadian wrote:Bros. AZ and SBM:

May I respectfully request all of you to refrain from going to outside communities or governments about our problems. You know that I do not believe in and do not follow the kothari goons' idea of Islam. But I am concerned about thousands of bohras working and living in the Middle East (e.g. U A E, Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc.). Can you imagine what will happen to these poor, hard working bohras and their families in India and Pakistan, if these governments take action not only with the leaders but also against these poor people?

To fight with this powerful Kothar, outside Powerful help is needed, I mean other governments help, now in doing so, if some of the abde's are hurt, then we should take it as collateral damage.

Ozdundee
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#59

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:59 pm

canadian wrote:Bros. AZ and SBM:

May I respectfully request all of you to refrain from going to outside communities or governments about our problems. You know that I do not believe in and do not follow the kothari goons' idea of Islam. But I am concerned about thousands of bohras working and living in the Middle East (e.g. U A E, Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc.). Can you imagine what will happen to these poor, hard working bohras and their families in India and Pakistan, if these governments take action not only with the leaders but also against these poor people?
I appreciate and salute your concern...but where laws are broken as faithful citizens the law has to be upheld. If we cannot live as law abiding then we should go back to where we came from. And even in India abdes have to be law abiding, but that is for the Indians to decide how pedantic they want to be.

Those abdes who as grown ups consciously follow the establishment and flirt with the laws should be prepared for the consequences , there is no sympathy ...they have a choice to be moderate or blind fanatics.

In UAE why can Bohras not practise General Islamic practises , why do they need to go overboard...may be they should be worried about how they can be law abiding so their future is secure.

Many governments are aware of what Bohras do...some issues are tolerable while some are not. Depends on circumstances and impact on broader society. What we can conclude the days of double stories are over, say something nice to the public and live like shit inside.

A simple advice that I recall within the ranks... follow the law and life will be uncomplicated

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#60

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:13 pm

Bro SBM,

I just got an unconfirmed news that the US govt has swooped upon Dawate Hadiyah, USA and that there is a frantic effort going on by Muffy and gang to settle the matter. Could you confirm with your local sources as what exactly is going on ?