Taziat....What is next?

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james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#61

Unread post by james » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:22 am

AgnosticTheist wrote: Looks like you failed to read the posts completely. It was claimed that folding hands is a sign of respect so my question was do you fold hands in front of everyone (teachers, elders etc.) whom you respect?
To save you the trouble ,

I would fold my hands in the following instances :

In front of Dai Zaman TUS whenever I approach him from far or near.

In front of Hudood Kiram of Dai Zaman during araz .

In front of parents if I were to apologize to them .

I see nothing wrong with people folding hands in front of their teachers or elders. To each their own,

james
Posts: 586
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Re: Taziat....What is next?

#62

Unread post by james » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:42 am

AgnosticTheist wrote:
Oh and why are you bringing afterlife in this argument? I was comparing two human beings - Maula and Maa.

Alright , I am limiting my reply to your comparison between Maula and Maa.
Volume 1, Book 2, Number 15:
Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said "None of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 16:
Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:

1. The one to whom Allah and His Apostle becomes dearer than anything else.

2. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.

3. Who hates to revert to Atheism (disbelief) as he hates to be thrown into the fire."
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-t ... 02-sbt.php

Ibn Ishaq said that the father, brother and husband of one of the women of the Ansar were killed in the Battle of Uhud fighting for the Messenger of Allah. She asked, "What has happened to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace?" They said, "He is as well as you would like, praise be to Allah!" She said, "Show him to me so I can look at him." When she saw him, she said, "Every affliction is as nothing now that you are safe."

Reference
Bayhaqi Volume 003, Page 302.
The above looks like the same narration as " Man la hul Maula falahul kul " which incidentally is the autograph of His Holiness Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS .
Ali ibn Abi Talib was asked, "How was your love for the Messenger of Allah?" He replied, "By Allah, we loved him more than our wealth, our sons, our fathers and our mothers, and more than cold water in a time of great thirst."[Ash-Shifa of Qadi Iyad]
Taken from : http://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.php?op ... Itemid=113

I have taken non bohra sources so that you don't squirm your way out by attacking the sources . :wink:

james
Posts: 586
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Re: Taziat....What is next?

#63

Unread post by james » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:51 am

faalse_ka_faasla wrote:TB and zinger,
M Taha has asked a simple question and ,as always, instead of answering him you are trying to divert the topic.

You should go to the Specsavers immediately. true_bohra answered his question so many times on this very thread,Did you even bother to read till the last post ?

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#64

Unread post by M Taha » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:55 am

james wrote:
faalse_ka_faasla wrote:TB and zinger,
M Taha has asked a simple question and ,as always, instead of answering him you are trying to divert the topic.

You should go to the Specsavers immediately. true_bohra answered his question so many times on this very thread,Did you even bother to read till the last post ?
No Mr james, your inmate didnt replied my question...

Question is : There was no money taken in taziyat in any form? or was there some kind of loop hole to collect money?

hsnhussain
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 7:36 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#65

Unread post by hsnhussain » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:01 am

M Taha wrote:
true_bohra wrote:yes I did salam empty handed because it was announced that no one should present najwa.

Now are you happy. Things are not always same as you think.
ok so let me put this in straight way....

you was called for taziyat, but then due to time constraints you was asked to just do salaam, and every body did salaam with empty hands to muffy?

and no body put any money in galla or gave money to kothar whats so ever.

is that corrrect?

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#66

Unread post by james » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:03 am

SBM wrote:[If SMB was Ghaiab Na Jankar and Infallible, how did he not know about SKQ when he appointed him as Mazoon? Was SMB Ghaiab Na Jankar and what happens to their loved ones who are carrying Rukku Chitti with SKQ.s name on it?
Now see how Zinger and James will try to divert the topic.
There is no need to divert the topic . The answer to your question is very simple .

This is not the first time a schism has happened in Dawat . It happened at the time of wafat of Rasulullah SAW , at the time of Imam Jafer Sadiq AS , at the time of Imam Mustansir Billah AS and during the era of Duat Mutlaqeen RA , it happened when mazoon Ali bin Ibrahim became a renegade when he claimed Daiship for himself according the Dawoodi Bohra doctrine.

Rasulullah SAW was infallible. Ask yourself , could he have not known ? And if he did know , why didn't he eliminate them ? But that is not the way the Adl of Allah Ta'ala works .

james
Posts: 586
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Re: Taziat....What is next?

#67

Unread post by james » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:05 am

M Taha wrote:
james wrote:
You should go to the Specsavers immediately. true_bohra answered his question so many times on this very thread,Did you even bother to read till the last post ?
No Mr james, your inmate didnt replied my question...

Question is : There was no money taken in taziyat in any form? or was there some kind of loop hole to collect money?

First of all , money is not " taken " . It is given " voluntarily " by Mumineen who want to participate in said good deeds.

And yes , there was no one collecting najwa covers during taziyat ,

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#68

Unread post by james » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:07 am

hsnhussain wrote:
M Taha wrote: ok so let me put this in straight way....

you was called for taziyat, but then due to time constraints you was asked to just do salaam, and every body did salaam with empty hands to muffy?

and no body put any money in galla or gave money to kothar whats so ever.

is that corrrect?
Galla was not kept in Saifee Masjid during taziyat for people to put money in it . It is always kept in Raudat Tahera and other mazhars where people can put money in the galla if they wish to .

M Taha
Posts: 372
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Re: Taziat....What is next?

#69

Unread post by M Taha » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:09 am

ok I got my answer, so by hook or by crook muffy took money on his fathers dead body, so this is why they invited more crowd in name of taziyat but taziyat was not given, they knew people will put money in galla atleast, so more business for kothar.

Thank You for being honest this time, appreciated.

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#70

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:16 am

james wrote: Alright , I am limiting my reply to your comparison between Maula and Maa.
You forgot to shed some light on the two phrases I wrote above:
Maula na qadmo na neeche daulat che
Maa na qadmo na neeche jannat che
Of course, here Maula doesn't mean any Prophets, Imams or previous Dais.

And just to save you trouble, the first phrase above is not written anywhere. It is what Abdes claim and I think was one of the placards in the recent milad julus.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
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Re: Taziat....What is next?

#71

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:31 pm

First of all , money is not " taken " . It is given " voluntarily " by Mumineen who want to participate in said good deeds.
Anyone know what those good deeds are? They are - "Giving Money" to Maula.

As they say in Christianity - the biggest lie perpetrated by the Devil was making people believe he doesn't exist. In reality though most people believe that the devil exists. The statement that "bohras give money voluntarily" follows the exact same pattern.

zinger
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#72

Unread post by zinger » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:04 am

SBM wrote:
faalse_ka_faasla wrote:TB and zinger,
M Taha has asked a simple question and ,as always, instead of answering him you are trying to divert the topic.
Just like none of them including Adam answered my question which is again
If SMB was Ghaiab Na Jankar and Infallible, how did he not know about SKQ when he appointed him as Mazoon? Was SMB Ghaiab Na Jankar and what happens to their loved ones who are carrying Rukku Chitti with SKQ.s name on it?
Now see how Zinger and James will try to divert the topic. Zinger will do a research on my IDs while not revealing his own and James multiple IDs
Also one more interesting fact about Zinger, he always finds multiple ID problem with people who start tearing apart Kotharti Goons but not a word about multiple IDs used by Goon supporter Abdes

Actually SBM bhai, we are very much on topic. it is YOU WHO HAS DIVERTED THE TOPIC ONCE AGAIN, AS IS YOUR TYPICAL HABIT. PROOF??? READ THE POST ABOVE FROM YOU :lol: :lol: :lol:

zinger
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#73

Unread post by zinger » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:07 am

And his answer by the way has already been given. but, medication-addled as his brain is, he is not able to read it. suggest you do the searching for him.

you are aware, by the way, of whom it is that you are supporting i hope.

again, a classic example of your mindset that my enemies enemy is my friend, not forgetting that he is your enemy too.

God help you :roll:

zinger
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#74

Unread post by zinger » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:11 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:bhai sbm,

there you again, ignoring my advice to you not to waste your time with brainwashed flyweights like zinger, adam, james et al. there is nothing to be gained by discussing weighty matters such as false claims of infallibility, ghaib na jaankar, mojiza na saheb, haqiqi kaaba, sajda to charlatans and religious criminals like muffy and the 51st and 52nd etc, with such fools and fanatics.

better utilise your valuable time in spreading the news of the shirk and kufr practised by bohras under the very able leadership of their so-called mola, among the other muslim organisations with whom you have excellent contacts. its time to hit them where it hurts the most. negative publicity, denunciation by the muslim world, deportation of bohras from islamic countries and bans on the travel there of their kafir leaders. its time the bohras were declared apostates and non-muslims like the ahmediyas. bhai hussain_ksa you too should use your close connections within the saudi govt to report on the kufr, money-laundering and unislamic and unethical practices to the saudi ministry of awqaf and religious affairs.

forget about mercy and circumspection where it concerns bohras. they dont deserve any compassion or retrospection, esp. when you have rabid idiots like zinger, james, adam, true bohra and other fanatic abdes defending the shirk, loot, arrogance and ayyashi of their slave masters. i dont know what all of you reform minded bohras are waiting for. these jaahils are beyond reform. its time to take affirmative action. report them to tax commissioners, to human rights organisations, to islamic countries, to all concerned deppts around the world who can destroy this evil organisation called dawate hadiyah, which is nothing but a smokescreen for religious mafia sitting on untold billions of unaccounted and ill-gotten wealth, living a life of extreme decadence and pomp whilst treating the community as untouchables and stupid retards.

a bunch of us did manage to have the previous amil of mississauga kicked out, had the charity tax status of both mississauga and toronto jamaats cancelled and the CRA alerted to their money mismanagement. now both jamaats office bearers live in fear of more such backlashes. the pity is that the movement was not followed up as strongly as it should. i have of course left this satanic cult, but am still an involved insider when it comes to the fight for reforms. my business and other work keeps me very busy, but the day i get a little freer, i promise i will make life hell for these haramkhors.

brainwashed flyweights blah blah blah... weighty matters blah blah blah... infallability blah blah blah... charlatans blah blah blah... shirk and kufr blah blah blah... negative publicity blah blah blah... apostates blah blah blah... compassion blah blah blah... report them blah blah blah...extreme decadence blah blah blah... haramkhors blah blah blah...


Yaar kabhi toh kucch naya likha karo

zinger
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#75

Unread post by zinger » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:14 am

For someone who has left the Dawoodi Bohra community AZ, you sure seem to care a lot about us even now.

Do yourself a favour. Cut yourself off completely from us. Gotta atleast respect Anajmi for that atleast. He cut of all ties and re-invented himself from scratch. He is more of a man than you can ever hope to be :roll:

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#76

Unread post by pheonix » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:30 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:bhai sbm,

there you again, ignoring my advice to you not to waste your time with brainwashed flyweights like zinger, adam, james et al. there is nothing to be gained by discussing weighty matters such as false claims of infallibility, ghaib na jaankar, mojiza na saheb, haqiqi kaaba, sajda to charlatans and religious criminals like muffy and the 51st and 52nd etc, with such fools and fanatics.

better utilise your valuable time in spreading the news of the shirk and kufr practised by bohras under the very able leadership of their so-called mola, among the other muslim organisations with whom you have excellent contacts. its time to hit them where it hurts the most. negative publicity, denunciation by the muslim world, deportation of bohras from islamic countries and bans on the travel there of their kafir leaders. its time the bohras were declared apostates and non-muslims like the ahmediyas. bhai hussain_ksa you too should use your close connections within the saudi govt to report on the kufr, money-laundering and unislamic and unethical practices to the saudi ministry of awqaf and religious affairs.

forget about mercy and circumspection where it concerns bohras. they dont deserve any compassion or retrospection, esp. when you have rabid idiots like zinger, james, adam, true bohra and other fanatic abdes defending the shirk, loot, arrogance and ayyashi of their slave masters. i dont know what all of you reform minded bohras are waiting for. these jaahils are beyond reform. its time to take affirmative action. report them to tax commissioners, to human rights organisations, to islamic countries, to all concerned deppts around the world who can destroy this evil organisation called dawate hadiyah, which is nothing but a smokescreen for religious mafia sitting on untold billions of unaccounted and ill-gotten wealth, living a life of extreme decadence and pomp whilst treating the community as untouchables and stupid retards.

a bunch of us did manage to have the previous amil of mississauga kicked out, had the charity tax status of both mississauga and toronto jamaats cancelled and the CRA alerted to their money mismanagement. now both jamaats office bearers live in fear of more such backlashes. the pity is that the movement was not followed up as strongly as it should. i have of course left this satanic cult, but am still an involved insider when it comes to the fight for reforms. my business and other work keeps me very busy, but the day i get a little freer, i promise i will make life hell for these haramkhors.
Al Zulfiqar, I thought you had taken a haitus from this forum for good. So what keeps you coming back?

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#77

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:49 am

When Dimwits like you do not have answers to such important issues...you come down to bad mouthing and vulgar language. I really do care for you people and pity you guys too. It is not your fault, it is what you have been taught at majlises and other events to utter lanat and gali galoch on people who speak and talk about reforms. You paid agents of Kothar Zinger KFC burger, James Bond, jinxed Phoenix etc. Tum log mumineen toh kya muslimeen hone ke laik nahee ho. tumhare Moula farmatey hain ke geebat mat karo lekin wohi khud geebat ke malik hain hain, joh bandha apney bhaiyo aur kaka ka nahee ho sakta, woh tum 2 kori ke karidhe hui tatuo ka kya hoga.

Akhtiar Wahid
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#78

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:52 am

Aur Dawoodi Bohra tum logo ki baap ki jaagir nahee hain. Tumhare Moula ne kharid ke nahee rakhee, It is a culture and society of like minded people, who have their forefathers and family related to this community, it is the Haq of all individuals who are born in this community to belong to it.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#79

Unread post by M Taha » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:04 am

why are these goondas Zinger/Phoneix allowed to bark here? I think this is the right time for Admin to ban these guys.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#80

Unread post by james » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:56 am

AgnosticTheist wrote:
james wrote: Alright , I am limiting my reply to your comparison between Maula and Maa.
You forgot to shed some light on the two phrases I wrote above:
Maula na qadmo na neeche daulat che
Maa na qadmo na neeche jannat che
Of course, here Maula doesn't mean any Prophets, Imams or previous Dais.

And just to save you trouble, the first phrase above is not written anywhere. It is what Abdes claim and I think was one of the placards in the recent milad julus.
"Maula na qadmo na neeche daulat che"

It may well very been a placard in the Mokib in shaan of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA . " Bhai Burhanuddin ne lai jaw. Ena qadmo na neeche daulat che " was said by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA.

" Maa na qadmo na neeche jannat che " is a hadith by Prophet Mohammed SAW .

Now that the light has been shed on both the quotes , lets revisit the real issue . You claim that Parents hold the highest position in your life rather than Maula . I posted hadiths by Rasullah SAW ( which you completely ignored ) which say otherwise . The people in zaman of Rasullah SAW , Ali AS , Husain AS and his noble lineage of Aimmat Taheeren AS kept the position of Saheb E Zaman above their own family . Likewise , people in zaman of Duat Mutlaqeen did the same and doing so even today . You may refer to such people as " insane " but your sanity is in direct contradiction of hadith by Rasulllah SAW .

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#81

Unread post by james » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:02 pm

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:Aur Dawoodi Bohra tum logo ki baap ki jaagir nahee hain. Tumhare Moula ne kharid ke nahee rakhee, It is a culture and society of like minded people, who have their forefathers and family related to this community, it is the Haq of all individuals who are born in this community to belong to it.

The primary tenet of Dawoodi Bohra sect is the belief in Imam uz Zaman AS and in his absence , belief in his Dai Mutlaq .

Stop believing in the Dai Zaman and you cease to be a part of the sect.

In fact " Dawoodi " refers to Syedna Dawood RA ( A Dai Multaq ) . It would be right to call it jaagir of Maula .

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#82

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:06 pm

The prophet (saw) has said that a true muslim loves him more than his parents. Now what does that imply? That implies that a normal muslim who is not an idol worshipper, loves his parents more than anything else. If he loves someone other than his or her parents more than anything else, then that person is not a normal muslim. If he had been, then the prophet (saw) would've said - love me more than any other human. By specifying parents, the prophet (saw) has indirectly indicated that if you love a dai more than your parents, then there is something wrong with you.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#83

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:15 pm

well Syedna Dawood RA never mentioned that he owns the community and is malik of jaan and maal like previous 3 dais are claiming to be. Infact the Dais before were pious and down to earth and they knew we are because of our people in the community, we are called dawoodi bohra but Dai Dawood bin Qutub Shah did not name it because of the split which happened people had to segregate them selves from the Suleymanis and give themselves a recognition. Dai Dawood bin Qutub Shah was the rightful successor and because of his dawat we did flourish and we do exist as compared to Suleymanis who have somehow secluded themselves and most of them have even converted to Sunni Islam. Every Qutub of the Zaman has faced the problem somehow, and aa Zaman na Qutub par bhi ek Aafat che lekin Haq will prevail.

Ozdundee
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#84

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:03 pm

Before the over zealous abdes criticize AZ and SBM they should read the below . Yes you may wonder why reformists care to reform the community and why we use the assertive way. It is logical the Kothar and SMS are not going to resolve issues diplomatically or democratically. As recently as in SKQ matter you have observed that they have used oppressive and coercive methods. Denying access to public facilities and social boycott.

SMS socialising with modi, powerful contacts in Mumbai , corrupt political connections in Africa and days of Middle East dictators, why is that not seen as political maneuvering.

Reformists do not have the money, but they have brains. The end justifies the means , we are trying to create a level playing field to reach compromises , so whether we report or publicise the secretive practises, have abdes ever asked why in the first place practise questionable and illegal practises. One cannot claim to be righteous in one place but offensive in the other .

Reformists are not trying to destroy the community but rather forcibly remove the rot, the cancer, the tumours so even a common man and woman has a voice can say no when trampled on. We desire to see all types of Bohra who can practise their type of faith whether they are following imam zaman, abde, Sunni, Islamic , agnostic , freethinking in a safe and free community within the simple Islamic framework enjoyed by broader Muslims. No compulsion no threats, not corruption, no dynasties. No this may not be the official pDB or SKQ vision but that is my vision.

Yes it is painful to see our dark secrets exposed but it is the SMS , Kothar, and YN legacy , Burhani guards methods that has made them to be assertive and responsive . The issues can no longer be resolved in classroom debates, or reason. Reformists tried for 40 years , they even tried to go to courts but money and influence was supreme and their rights denied.
While all the messengers appointed by Allaah were charged by Him with the responsibility to disseminate the revealed guidance with which they were entrusted, their respective nations too, were called upon to share in the fulfilment of Allaah’s orders. Allaah reminds us in the Holy Quran with (what means): “And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allaah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying]: 'You must make it clear [i.e., explain it] to the people and not conceal it.'…” [Quran: 3:187]

The position of the Muslim Ummah (nation), in this respect, is clear in the Quran, where Allaah states (what means): “You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong…” [Quran: 3:110]

Thus, Allaah Almighty has honoured this Muslim Ummah by appointing it to share in the noble cause of its Prophet by inviting people to follow the straight path. The Quran further stresses (what means): “The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong…” [Quran: 9:71] while: “The hypocrite men and hypocrite women are of one another. They enjoin what is wrong and forbid what is right…” [Quran: 9:71]

Hence, the truth emerges clearly that to enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong constitutes a fundamental difference between a believer and a hypocrite, who pretends to be a believer when he is quite the reverse. Consequently, all members of the Muslim Ummah, men and women alike, are individually responsible to further the cause of Islam with the zeal, determination and sense of sacrifice of the Prophet and his companions .

That the Companions did their utmost, individually and collectively, to convey the light of Islam to all people, even outside the Arabian Peninsula, is demonstrated by the lengthy and dangerous journeys they took, reaching the Atlantic Ocean in the west and the Great Wall of China in the East. Countless distinguished companions breathed their last in faraway and foreign lands preaching Islam, for which their sacrifices knew no bounds.

At this point some commonplace misconceptions ought to be cleared. To call all peoples of the world to Allaah is the duty of every responsible and conscientious Muslim. Since there is no priesthood in Islam or sacerdotal class among Muslims, the duty of the call to Allaah cannot be transferred to an ill-conceived and imaginary group called the 'men of religion.' In Islam everyone is a man of religion and every man will be accountable to Allaah as to whether he fulfilled his obligations sincerely and to the best of his abilities or not. The following verse of the Quran should be very enlightening in this respect; Allaah says (what means): “Say: 'This is my way; I invite to Allaah with insight, I and those who follow me. And exalted is Allaah; and I am not of those who associate others with Him.'” [Quran: 12:108]

Thus, anyone who rightly claims to be a follower of the Prophet cannot evade his duty to call people to Allaah.

The following prophetic traditions amply elucidate this point: “Let those who witness inform those who are absent.” [Al-Bukhaari] The word 'witness' here is taken to mean anyone who possesses some Islamic knowledge. The Prophet is also reported to have said: “Preach on my behalf, even with just one verse (i.e. verse of the Quran).”

Therefore, one need not be a profound scholar or a great jurist to call others to Islam. No doubt a person well-versed in Islamic sciences would be able to speak more authoritatively and would be in a position to explain matters of religion to the minutest details. However, a high level of scholarship is not a prerequisite to call others to Islam. Everyone’s effort has a definite gap to fill. A Muslim scholar will address his counterpart with a refined style and scholarly content, while a Muslim layman will have to reason with his equals in practical terms, each having a role complementary to the others.

Every individual of the Muslim Ummah is obliged to be actively engaged in whatever way he can to guide people to the right path and support, morally as well as materially, those who labour to discharge this responsibility. A common misconception that found appeal even among earlier Muslim generations and which still lingers on to this day stems from failure to comprehend the meaning of the following Quranic verse in the proper context (which means): “O you who have believed! Upon you is [responsibility for] yourselves. Those who have gone astray will not harm you when you have been guided...” [Quran: 5:105]

In all honesty and fairness, the above verse does not connote, by any stretch of imagination, that a so-called pious or saintly person may absolve himself of the responsibility to call mankind to truth simply by thinking that evil would not knock at his door, on account of his being pure and peaceful. Regardless of how pious one may appear to be, he can never equal the Prophet or excel his companions in their moral perfection, sincerity of worship and religious devotion.

None of the Prophet's companions ever dreamt of resigning from the noble task of inviting the nations of the east and the west to eternal bliss and salvation offered by Allaah through Islam. It was precisely to correct this wrong notion about the aforementioned verse that Abu Bakr issued the following warning: “O people! Indeed you read this exalted verse and put it in a place other than its own. Whereas I heard the Apostle of Allaah saying: "Indeed, if people see a cruel person and they do not restrain him, Allaah may punish all of them."”

The Ansaar (inhabitants of Madeenah who welcomed the Muslim immigrants) had gone through great material sacrifices in support of the Islamic cause. When Allaah granted victory to the Muslims after their long struggles against the polytheists and they conquered Makkah, some of the Ansaar felt satisfied. Now that Allaah had bestowed His favour upon the believers and had crowned their noble efforts with a glorious and decisive victory over their opponents, they thought it justified for themselves to return to their much neglected trades and palm groves. Thereupon, Allaah the Most High, revealed the following verse (which means): “…And do not throw [yourselves] with your [own] hands into destruction…” [Quran 2:195]

Which clearly meant that a believer would be exposed to the gravest danger if he were to abandon the struggle in the way of Allaah and confine himself to routine Islamic duties such as Salaat (prayer), Sawm (fasting), Zakaat (alms-giving), and the like. Abu Ayyoob Al-Ansaari was among the distinguished Companions. According to some sources, he was one hundred and ten (110) years old when he participated in the first Muslim siege of Constantinople (Istanbul) where he died a martyr. Considering his old age, his younger friends would sometimes recommend him to rest for a while, to which he would reply: “Are you telling me to throw myself into destruction?”

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#85

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:14 pm

M Taha wrote:why are these goondas Zinger/Phoneix allowed to bark here? I think this is the right time for Admin to ban these guys.
No... I think this is the right time to ban guys who keep creating fake accounts... like you do multi-dude! :wink:

It seems Admin has warned you for another reason already, hasn't he Mr Incredible Mission lol = http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 08#p124408

zinger
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#86

Unread post by zinger » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:58 pm

Ozdundee bhai,

i have said it many a times before, i sympathise with the reform movement and many a times, i have take proof from here and shown to my friends and jamat members, many who are slowly coming to terms with the truth now as far as the corruption goes.

i only have issues with SBM and AZ in certain areas, the main one being that often throw out the baby with the bathwater.

you need to understand... many Dawoodi Bohras who come to this site get extremely pained to see the vulgar language used against us an our Dai and against our community.

i have so often said to humsafar bhai that if there was some kind of control and quality check on the posts here, you would have a lot many people coming here. at the moment, the posts by AZ and his like just turn people away completely. i agree, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow but it needs to be done slowly and steadily. if you have a cold, you do not eat up 6 d-cold tablets at a time, you take them one by one, in proper intervals.

believe it or not, i have often used the posts of AZ and SBM to support my argument many a times.

AgnosticTheist
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#87

Unread post by AgnosticTheist » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:04 am

james wrote:
AgnosticTheist wrote: You forgot to shed some light on the two phrases I wrote above:
Of course, here Maula doesn't mean any Prophets, Imams or previous Dais.

And just to save you trouble, the first phrase above is not written anywhere. It is what Abdes claim and I think was one of the placards in the recent milad julus.
"Maula na qadmo na neeche daulat che"

It may well very been a placard in the Mokib in shaan of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA . " Bhai Burhanuddin ne lai jaw. Ena qadmo na neeche daulat che " was said by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA.

" Maa na qadmo na neeche jannat che " is a hadith by Prophet Mohammed SAW .

Now that the light has been shed on both the quotes , lets revisit the real issue . You claim that Parents hold the highest position in your life rather than Maula . I posted hadiths by Rasullah SAW ( which you completely ignored ) which say otherwise . The people in zaman of Rasullah SAW , Ali AS , Husain AS and his noble lineage of Aimmat Taheeren AS kept the position of Saheb E Zaman above their own family . Likewise , people in zaman of Duat Mutlaqeen did the same and doing so even today . You may refer to such people as " insane " but your sanity is in direct contradiction of hadith by Rasulllah SAW .
Dear James, I guess anajmi already answered your post.

Also, once again (since you are NOT looking at it), by Maula I meant the present day Dai. You are free to have your own opinion and put any one in the highest position. Also the keyword is the "lineage". The Dai is not from the "lineage" of Prophet. So my sanity is not in contradiction of the hadith but yours surely is where you contradict a lot of other hadis and Quran. Now don't ask me which ones!

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#88

Unread post by james » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:44 am

anajmi wrote:The prophet (saw) has said that a true muslim loves him more than his parents. Now what does that imply?
It implies that AgnosticTheist is not a true muslim .

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#89

Unread post by james » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:58 am

AgnosticTheist wrote: Dear James, I guess anajmi already answered your post.
He did call you a hypocrite .

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Taziat....What is next?

#90

Unread post by james » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:20 am

AgnosticTheist

Pay heed to words of Imam AS.
Ziyad al-Aswad came to Imam Abu Ja'far al-Baqir, peace be on him from a remote distance and a far-off place. He walked so much that his feet rip open. So, Imam Abu` Ja'far al-Baqir, peace be on him, asked him: "Ziya`d, what is this?"

"My master, I came on the back of a weak young camel. So, I walked the entire road. I had nothing to buy a camel. I added a thing to a thing so that I have bought this young camel," Ziyad replied.

Imam Abu` Ja'far, peace be on him, felt pity and wept for him. Then Ziyad said to him: "May Allah make me ransom for you. By Allah, I have extremely committed sins. Perhaps I said: 'I have perished!' Then, I remember my love for you, ahl al-Bayt. With that I wish for forgiveness." So, the Imam turned to him, and then he said to him with kindness and affection: "Glory belongs to Allah. Religion is nothing but love (for us).

Indeed Allah, the Blessed and Exalted said in His Book: 'Allah has endeared the faith to you and has made it seemly in your hearts. "

He said: 'If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you. (The Holy Qur'an, Al-Umran, 31)

He said: 'They love those who have fled to them. (The Holy Qur'an, al-Hashr, 9)

3- He, peace be on him, said: "Surely, the garden longs for and its light becomes intense for the coming of the family of Muhammad, may Allah bless him and his progeny, and their followers. If a servant worships Allah between the rukn (the corner of the Kaaba) and the maqam (the standing place of Abraham) to the extent that his bodily members cut off, Allah would not accept his worship unless he adopts our authority and loves us."

(Ayun al-Akhbar wa Funun al-Athar, p. 227)

4- He, peace be on him, said to a group of his lovers: "The one of you who becomes happy when his soul reaches here, he pointed to his mouth with his hand, the angel of death comes down to him and says to him: 'As for what you wish for, it has been given to you. As for what you fear, you are safe from it.' He will open the door of his abode in the garden and say to him: 'Look at your abode in the garden! Those are Allah's Apostle, may Allah bless him and his progeny, 'Ali, al-Hasan, and al-Husayn. They are your friends.' This is what the words of Allah, the Great and Almighty confirm: 'Those who believe and guard (against evil), they shall have good news in this world's life and in the hereafter.
http://www.jafariyanews.com/articles/2k ... mbaqir.htm