Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Fakhruddinsuratwala
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:03 am

Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin

#1

Unread post by Fakhruddinsuratwala » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:36 am

Logical reasons not to believe SMS
1) As Dai is known to have the ILM of everything than why Aqa Moula kept the other claimant as the Mazoon for 50 years and why he publicly never said anything about Shezada Mufaddalbhai Saheb until his illness. Aqa Moula would have removed SKQ long before if that was the case but he kept him in his current position for 50 years that clearly reflects that the Aqa Moula Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA had faith in the Mazoon and that reflects clearly that 52nd Dai was not in favour of changing the Mazoon nor the Mansoos(being the same).
Why Nass was done after the Moula got sick? Why not before that ?
2) No sustainable proof that Nass was conferred upon him as there is any video of the Hospital Nass done on him and the Raudat ul Tahera chapter is absolute orchestrated between the Aqa moula sons and Dr Moiz bhai saheb. 1388 document is a very questionable document which will not stand anywhere as it was produced after 4 days of Aqa Moula Wafaat and there is no current living mentioned as the witness who can verify it.
Why they don’t give us the strong proof of the Nass? Why Shezada Muffaddan sahib had to use the words that is he and his brother lying? Psychologically such kind of references are given by the people who carry the guilt.
3) Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin saheb and his team have taken a much sustained propaganda to prove that Shezada sahib is the right claimant. Such was the apprehension that they even brought a Hindu to claim that he saw a dream that Nass was conferred upon him. If that Hindu is such a believer and he knew that Nass was conferred upon him why he didn’t accept Islam as his religion.
Have we ever seen that propaganda has stooped so low that we have to bring any class of people to tell us who is the true Dai? Will Baba Ramdev or Sharad Pawar decide our Dai’s?
4) In the first 2 weeks of verbal and physical attack on Mazoon-e-Dawaat whom we all have given Misaak (including) Shezada Mufaddal sahib. They have shown their true character on what class or side of the religion they are going to propagate after the dust of the current controversy settles.
Have we come across a son who is busy with targeting his opponents in the 1st 10 days while he should be grieving his reverend father?
5) Allowed the women of the family to accept the Taziyat while in our sect Women accept Taziyat until 3rd day. Accepted Najwa and Money while accepting the Taziyat.
Have we ever come across that any religious leaders accepting gifts while grieving his own father?
6) Gilafs (cloth which is put on the religiously important graves) for Aqa Moula Turbet were sold at hefty prices all over the Jamaats and huge amount was collected.
Have we ever come across a son who tries to make money out of his own Father turbet in the first 10 days of grieving?
7) All other Dai’s in history have been carried on shoulders of memineen or the family and especially the Mansoos but in this case the Janaza was placed on the truck with the Kalma was hidden by the National Flag. Did you ensure that the National Flag was washed before placed. People who touched the flag were clean?
Did any Son do such things to achieve public glory and undermine the janaza of our beloved Aqa Moula?
8) Quran as guidance and witness – Despite all claims the hujjat was done based on documents and other irrelevant things while Shezada Mufaddal saheb should come forward and take an oath on Quran that the Nass has been done on him. Let all witnesses also do the same so it becomes between them and Allah and poor Bohras stay out of it. Right now the Bohras are in dilemma
Why Shezada Mufaddal Saheb has not taken an oath on Quran that he is the rightful Mansoos and the Nass has been done on him as proclaimed by him ?
9) As offered by the other side that a public debate be held between the two claimants and let it be judged by the Islamic Scholers to decide who is the rightful claimant was either ignored or avoided.
Why Shezada Mufaddal Saheb is not willing to get into a debate with the other claimant ? Is he scared that his knowledge will be proved too little against a giant in knowledge.? Moulana Ali always was ready for the debate while the 3 Shaitans always moved away from it.
10) Created 3 specific sites – 53 reasons not to believe SKQ, Pearls of Wisdom and Moula Mufaddla overnight to counter FatemiDawat website. Even created a fake website for ITS to blame it on the other Claimant. Spent Millions of Rupees on this stunts where if you are on Haq than they should be worried about the claims done by anyone?
If Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin Saheb is on Haq and right on claiming the truth why they are working so hard on refuting the claim.?
11) Aqa Moula was coerced on taking some decisions. Especially the propaganda of the Kenya Visit of the other claimant where the other side has a letter stating the names of the two brothers who were working on the instructions of the Shezada Mufaddal sahib and Shezada Qaid Johar. When Aqa Moula went on the visit to Africa he said to save the split in the community that he believes that the two brothers have no role in troubling Mazoon E Dawaat but at the same time he categorically mentioned that “ Bhai Kutbuddin ne ghani takleef uthavi padi” if Moula knew that the other claimant was wrong he would have no mentioned anything about him. Indirectly he also mentioned that Aqa Moula himself had to go through this turmoil in Tanzania before few years and he knew who was behind it.
Why Aqa Moula didn’t say a word to Mazoon e Dawaat if he was wrong ? Why Sheikh Hussain of Nairobi contacted Shezada Qaid Johar and Shezada Mufaddal Saheb instead of going straight to Aqa Moula?
12) If Mazoon E Dawaat is the second highest Rutba in the Community than why was he sidelined for years and insulted by the sons of Aqa Moula and why was he pushed in Surat by the goons of Badre Jamali bs and Kher bs. Why was the great tamasha created when the other claimant wanted to come for ziyarat after the sad demise of Aqa Moula ?
Does a religious leader of a peaceful community do these kinds of heinous acts? Does anyone stop anyone from ziyarat of his father and his brother and above all his dais? If the other claimant was stopped while he has powerethan where do we mumineen stand ?
13) Shejadas walking on the heads of the Mumeneen – As most of us have seen that during the burial of Aqa Moula several Shezadas walked on people heads/ topis so casually that as if it was their birthright? I am sure Shezada Mufaddal saheb has seen this video and why didn’t take his brothers and sons to task?
Is his brothers, nephew and sons more important to Shezada Mufaddal saheb or the community? If community why he doesn’t ask for a public apology from his relatives for such a shameful act.?
14) Shezada Qaid Johar visit Switzerland and France after few days of the Wafaat of Aqa Moula which is known to almost all of us. If that is the case what was the need to travel in the days of grief of Wafaat of Aqaa Moula ?
Is Shezada Mufaddal saheb aware of his travel and if that could be made public why there was so urgency in travel to Switzerland and France ?
15) Vaaz of Shezada Mufaddal saheb is pure rhetoric and nothing to add as at times I have seen people sleeping in Markaz while the other are playing games on mobile. Whereas the other claimant has been known for his knowledge and substance in zikr.
Why Shezada Mufaddal saheb knowledge is so limited while the Dai has to have the knowledge of everything ?
16) For years Aqa Moula use to try to avoid leaders who have been non secular and divisive and at time 52nd Dai use to be very clear on what is his views on such leaders. He has evaded for years Narendra Modi while Narendra Modi use to barge in the Masjid while Aqa Moula use to do vudu after use to leave. Shezada Mufaddal saheb has been inviting this leaders like Udhav Thakerey, Raj Thakerey, Sharad Pawar, Naredra Modi, and above all Baba Ramdev. All this leaders are corrupt and have no ethics and in some or the other way liable for killing thousands of Muslims while Shezada Mufaddal saheb was mingling with them as if they were a part of his own campaign.
Why was Shezada Mufaddal saheb so eager to show this people coming to meet or pay condolences ? Was he feeling too important or he had to show that he was important?
17) RasulAllah used to say that education is so important that if you have to go to China please do so while SMS actually prohibits secular education and have imposed on us only the religious education. Is the Deen of RasulAllah not right for him?
Why Shezada Mufaddal saheb doesn’t want to educate the community?
18) Women Education has been very important in Islam and several Muslim Women have contributed to Islam in a big way. While all the Dai’s and especially Aqa Moula Burhanuddin Moula use to propagate education for our girls always and I have personally heard some of the bayans while SMS does the exactly opposite.
Why Shezada Mufaddal saheb doesn’t talk about education and uplifting the Bohra Community in terms of education? Why no scholarship or other higher education schemes are started by SMS? Is educating the Women of the society brings the change in the society and that is what Shezada Mufaddal Saheb is afraid off?
19) Ideology - Fundamentals of Islam and the Ideology of Dai are the principles on which our Dawaat has been working historically. 51st Dai was a person of known intelligence and 52nd of his spirituality.
What is the ideology of Shehzada and why he doesn’t come out in spell his ideology for the community?
20) After the Nass was proclaimed by Shezada Mufaddal saheb after Aqa Moula suffered stroke, a 50 page document was created by Shezada Mufaddal saheb and his brothers which speaks of the Nass done in London (which has no proof) and the drama at RT. But there was no mention of the 1388 Nass which they claim is documented. If this document was with them why this document was not mentioned in the 50 page document and why no reference of it earlier.
Nass without witness is questionable but the fake documents become more questionable. Does Shezada Mufaddal saheb or his office has any fake clarification on it ?
21) How can second in command become a Rebel ? In history there has not one instance where the second in command gone rebel. In case of 29th Dai the case was quite different as the Nass was never an issue there. It was a simple case of ambition getting over Syedi Qutub Sulieman.
Can Shezada Mufaddal saheb explain why 2nd in command will go rival ?
22) Argument is that the Aqa Moula was coerced in saying things which he never approved. During the times of PYN and later his sons and Aqa Moula own sons have manipulate, maneuver, or influenced the decision either by coercion, pleading or even blackmailing. If they could get decisions against Mazoon e Dawaat 38 years ago on Nairobi incident or Cairo Incident when Moula was hale and hearty that getting the Nass fabiracted would be very easy when Aqa Moula was seriously ill.
If 1388 Nass was conferred than what was the reason to sideline Mazoon E Dawat ? Why so many conspiracies against the people who were aligned with former Mazoon e Dawat? Can Shezada Mufaddal saheb explain it ?
23) Steroids and Straps : A normal human being would not do this to his father what Kothar and especially Dr Moiz bhai and sons of Aqa Moula have done to our beleoved Aqa Moula. Give steroids to Aqa Moula just to keep his vital organs running ? Strap him to the chair (Hear say) I am not a witness to it.
Will a Son do this to his Father ? Will a Dai be made to suffer like this ? Will a 100 year old Man made to suffer like this ? Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb answer this ?
24) Not allowing the other claimant from attending the Janaza of Aqa Moula was the greatest crime. Right now the blame is put on SKQ but as we know always that goons of Kothar would not have allowed him to come there and do you think they would let them go alive.
A brother was not allowed for burial of his brother? A Mazoon was not allowed for burial of his Dai for 50 years ? Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb explain this ?
25) Arguments put forwards against by the so called Think Tank of SMS is flawed. Some of the arguments put in are so illogical or flawed on facts that it makes you laugh. Does SMS have the knowledge of these websites and if so why he doesn’t stop them? Or it is done with his permission?
If Shezada Mufaddal saheb knows about the arguments than he himself will feel that he has to rethink his ideology or (strategy)?
26) Quantity is not what matters – 6-7 people to support RasulAllah, Very few people to follow Moulana Ali initially, while 72 with Imam Hussain. We know what their strength today. If Quantity is strength than Islam would not have survived.
Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb carry the quantity or quality?
27) Quality is that Matters – In terms of Ilm, Akhlaq and Rutba the other claimant stands quite tall in comparison to SMS. SMS and his brothers know about it and that is their major discomfort.
Will SMS agree to debate with SKQ?
28) Spirituality – When use to see 51st and 52nd Dai, we could see the spirituality despite stiff opposition but there was a spirituality connect with the people. Major problem with the Shezada Mufaddal sahib is the lack of spirituality connect. His bayans are baseless and read out with noconnection to the people. Kakaji Gale lagavi layshu dialougue has been blown out of proportion and next day Baba Ramdev ne gale lagavi didha…
Where will the Shezada Mufaddal saheb get the spiritual connect ?
29) Below is one of the comments on one of the sites which are flawed and written with simple emotions and no logic.
When I was born, HE helped my parents get my name from Moula RA. You were busy giving your own.
- Moula had given raza to give names. Secondly people went to him to get names from him. Does Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin have the ability to give right mazoon (forget the names)?
HE made my parents understand that Deeni Taaleem preceded secular education. You showed your children the opposite.
- RasulAllah said that deeni talim is important but at the same time the secular education is equally important. RasulAllah used to let go prisoners of war free if they were able to teach 10 people to read. Aqa Moula never restricted education but Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin does.
HE addresses my children in his bayans. You are incomprehensible to them.
- It is your choice and not theirs.
HE captured their hearts. You were irrelevant to them.
- There are thousands but scared of excommunication by the community. Irrelevance comes at a stage where you are of no value but writing pages after pages about him states that how important he is.
HE has taught them to recite Moula’s shahadat (of Imam Husain SA). You have not seemed to learn it yourself.
- Educate yourself as for years SKQ vasilo on Ashura afternoon was yearned by people. We use to wait for it when we were kids. SMS and his brothers have tormented SKQ so much that he preferred to stay away from the Ashura and he used to go and do Vaaz as per the Raza Mubarak.
HE was busy taking Moula’s mesaaq. Your allegiance was to yourself alone.
- SKQ has given misaaq to Moula for years and Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin used to give Ahad to him and did Sajda to him as well. If Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin was mansoos than why did he do sajda to Mazoon.
HE was seen satiating the thirst of a Jamea student. You were thinking them gundao.
- Everyone knows that the Jamea students are goons of Badrul Jamali and Kher and PYN before.
HE struggled amidst the mountains of Yemen. You were busy making mountains out of molehills.
- After the struggle also he couldn’t unite the community there. Aqa Moula Mohammed Burhanuddin RA struggled and not Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin . Please correct your facts.
HE shows me the Shari’at. You show me how to abuse it
- Playing bands in masjids and marakez was not taught by SKQ. Putting pictures of Dai’s was not taught by SKQ. Taking money on every pretext was not taught by SKQ. All these practices were started by PYN, his sons and the Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin and his brothers. So who abused the Shariat? Who placed the national flag on the Kalema? Correct your facts.
HE shows me business. You show me interest.
- Dealing with Mercantile Bank was stopped because of the land deal. Who was dealing in Banks? There are 12 banks or ATMs on Dawaat Properties. Who is taking interest? Check with Dawaat e Hadiyah Trust how many other properties they have which are rented to Banks or related institutions? Check your facts.
HE took me to Moula’s RA hazrat. You were hardly there.
- Absolutely as Moula had given him Raza to do many other important works which his sons didn’t have the capacity to conclude.
HE blessed me with courage for Moula’s ziyafat. You were encouraging your own.
- No comments as I am against Ziyafat
HE facilitated deedar. You resonated inkaar.
- No Comments as yet it is not clear who is right for the Inkaar.
HE taught me participation in Moula’s Ashara Mubarakah. You advocated alienation.
- It was not alienation but doing Waaz at other places with Raza Mubarak of Aqa Moula.
HE shows me Moula’s ability. You speak of his incapacity.
- Absolute Lies as SKQ has never tried to show the incapacity of 52nd Dai.
HE ensures me Moula’s Faizul Mawaid. You were busy buying your support.
- By calling all this Baba’s and Killers of Muslims what was Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin trying to buy ? Udhav Thakeray, Raj Thakrey and Narendra Modi…Wow what an audience to buy support for ownself.
HE opens ziyaarat. You closed it.
- His own choice. You have no right to debate that as Moula Taher Saifuddin Moula use to do the same.
HE tirelessly joins hearts. You fract Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin ured a community.
- It can be said the same for SMS. If you don’t want to fracture it why don’t you visit Thane and sort the family issue.
HE walked in a throng of supplicants. You had to beckon them.
- All Zaman Imam and Dai’s who were on right path did that.
HE smiled at us. You frowned.
- People like you made him frown.
30) Comparison of SKQ to SMS by individuals
There has been complete silence from SKQ and has been no abusive language used by them while the goons in from Nairobi or Mumbai or even Surat have come forward with incidents that has no relevance to the incidents they are mentioning and SKQ. But the only issue that baffles me is if Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin believes that he is on Haqq that why he is trying to compare himself through his goons to SKQ. Cheap publicity, humongous hoardings and celebrations that cost crores is done just to bohra believe that who is the right Dai?
Can Shezada Mufaddal saheb prove that the he is better than SKQ ?
31) To have sight but no vision
Yes we firmly believe that Shezada Mufaddal saheb has and had a long sight on the Dai ship but he lacks vision and he will have to play in the hands of his brothers, uncles and the most important brother in laws.
Can Shezada Mufaddal saheb guide the mumineens to his vision ? If he has any ?
32) Difference of Education between the two brothers sons
As we already know that the Son of Sayedna Mumammed Burhanuddin were spoiled with intention by PYN and his sons. None of the sons of 52nd Dai has deeni ilm of that extent and most of the degrees they have are either bought or from Jamea – Surat.
While we know that the sons of SKQ are highly educated equally in Deeni Talim along with secular education.
Shezada Mufaddal Saheb himself forgets dua’s in bayans, at times he doesn’t remember what 2 rakats we pray after magrib (Dafil Affat). If that is the state of our his Taleem…how can we take him as Dai ?
Does Dai forget such simple things that too of Deen?
33) No Comparison
Till 50th Dai Dawat was under severe pressure from several sources and had debt on it. 51st Dai worked so hard to get things in place and he created this whole set up while 52nd Dai took this forward along with his Mazoon and Mukasir to ensure that the people stay together and prosper. SKQ has several projects on his name which he ensured that they were successful. Name one project which Shezada Mufaddal saheb has carried on his shoulders and delivered.
Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb all over his era rely on his supports ?
34) Rhethoric is no substance.
Saying one and the same things 100 times might be right with Bohra who have forgotten to think on their own but it will carry no substance with people who will have brains. Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb be able to convince the intellectual community.
35) Is it reasonable to dismiss the entire nass of 1388 H by declaring the document as a forgery without having even seen it, held it, or examined it? Argument is whether 52nd Dai’s broher, sons, nephews are not to be trusted on this aspect ?
People how have disobeyed 52nd Dai (PYN and his sons), people who cheated him, People who fired gun shots at 52nd Dai, gave him steroids and straped him to make him sit erect..Are they to be believed?
36) Like Father Like Son – Adam Nooh and Sayedna Taher Saifuddin
Argument put forward that ADAM AS had two sons out of which Habil was good and Qabil was not. And Similarly Sons of 51st Dai are put in this context. Here the comparison is flawed and that can be understood from the below :
The Qur'an states that the story of Qabil and Habel was a message[7] for mankind, as it had told them about the consequences of murder and that the killing of one person would be as if he/she had slain the whole of mankind. But the Qur'an states that still people rejected the message of the story and continued to commit grave sins, slaying prophets, messengers as well as the righteous people. All the prophets who preached since the time of Adam were persecuted, insulted or reviled in one way or another. With some righteous men, however, the Qur'an states that people went one step further, in attempting to slay them or indeed slaying them. The Qur'an itself mentions the slaying of the righteous, saying "As to those who deny the Signs of God and in defiance of right, slay the prophets, and slay those who teach just dealing with mankind, announce to them a grievous penalty".[
37) Name of Aali Qadr from Taher Saifuddin Moula- - Name Aali Qadr was given by 51st Dai but that doesn’t prove anything while the name of SKQ was also given by 51st Dai.
38) Davedaar ni Kahani – I have received 20 videos with the above title. Some of them are the same people talking. In the community of 2 Million almost only 20 people know how bad SKQ is ? Give me a break sir…
39) The Case of the Honorific: Al-Walad al-Ahab (The Beloved Son) – SKQ claims that he called by Aqa Moula 3 times as Al Walad Al Ahab publicly. I don’t understand the logic of SKQ but refuting something like this with even naive argument that he called all the children as “Pyara Pyara Farzando” In last 50 years I have not heard Aqa Moula say the same for Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin publicly..
A sage was asked: Which of your children are most beloved to you? He replied: The youngest amongst them till he matures, and the ailing amongst them till he is cured, and the distant amongst them till he returns.
In the context of the above SKQ was the youngest of the sons of 51st Dai, he is not been well for a while and distant as he was to Aqa Moula 
40) Intellectuals sidelined and opposition crushed – Several intellectuals have been sidelines by the Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin , his brothers and brothers in law and opposition simply crushed. 1980 na Mufaddalia have come out in open today.
Does Dawaat or Dai crush people and sideline the people with secular or Deeni Ilm ?
41) Reason #41: Regarding The Mutation Of The Misaaq And Deviation From Haqq
“Mutation of Misaaq and Shari’at to suit personal agenda
Misaaq. Most important point: Very soon after Sh Qaid Joher bhaisaheb announced “Nass” on Shz Mufaddal bhaisaheb, Shz Mufaddal bhaisaheb had his own name inserted into the misaaq following the name of the Dai, adding to and modifying the misaaq text. The misaaq text is inviolable and cannot be tampered with under any circumstances. One who violates this trust cannot be haqq-na-saheb.”
A close reading of the above text unveils the following claims:
A specific ibarat (text) was sent by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s Vazarat (office) which functioned under His direction with His permission and blessings containing the proper text to be recited following Syedna Burhanuddin’s name containing the Mansoos’s name in the Misaaq. Any claim to the contrary should be backed with proof since the allegation is very grave and is tantamount to saying that every namaz and religious matter, rite and custom conducted in the last few years was without Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s RA Raza Mubarak and thus invalid. Questioning and doubting the validity of the actions of the al Dai al Mutlaq and the affairs of His Vazarat should not be a mumin’s concern.
Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin wanted nothing to prevent him to become the Dai so he inserted his own name in Misaq which has never been the case in history. Why such a hurry to do this?
Secondly Dai was ill to give any kind of permission and this kind of Raza cannot be obtained from the office of Dai but change in Misaq is such an important change which a specific permission from Dai. That implicates that change was done without the raza of Aqa Moula.
42) Vacant position of Mazoon e Dawaat – Keeping the position of Mazoon itself speaks how much influence the brother have on Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin. Does Dai work under pressure ?
43) Mufadalia – In 1990’s there was a strong group which use to have lot of influence and weightage in the community started a campaign that Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin would be the next Dai. Aqa Moula has 7 sons and why SMS was singled out because of only one reason. He was the son in law of PYN. PYN had a long ambition to become the Dai but because of his own character he could not.
44) Dawaat e Hadiyah Trust -
Biggest of all….136,000 Crores (22 Billion USD – 13 Billion Sterlings) Don’t you think this is the reasonable amount to fight it for ??????

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#2

Unread post by M Taha » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:40 am

jazakallah u summarized every thing.

Fakhruddinsuratwala
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:03 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#3

Unread post by Fakhruddinsuratwala » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:42 am

feel free to add anything that is required.
M Taha wrote:jazakallah u summarized every thing.

tasneempati
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:44 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#4

Unread post by tasneempati » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:58 am

45. Questionable role of QJ bhai saheb.

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#5

Unread post by james » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:40 am

Fakhruddinsuratwala


Why was the website fatemidawat.com registered on 18th November 2013/15th Muharram 1435H ?

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#6

Unread post by M Taha » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:49 am

james wrote:Fakhruddinsuratwala


Why was the website fatemidawat.com registered on 18th November 2013/15th Muharram 1435H ?
because after nass drama it was clear "sidhi ungi se ghee nahi niklenga" , and preparation for saving dawat was meant to be started.

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#7

Unread post by james » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:57 am

M Taha wrote:
james wrote:Fakhruddinsuratwala


Why was the website fatemidawat.com registered on 18th November 2013/15th Muharram 1435H ?
because after nass drama it was clear "sidhi ungi se ghee nahi niklenga" , and preparation for saving dawat was meant to be started.
But Khuzaima was allegedly advised by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA to disclose his alleged nass only after his death. Are you saying he started the preparation during hayat tayeba of the 52nd Dai RA ?

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#8

Unread post by M Taha » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:04 am

james wrote:
M Taha wrote: because after nass drama it was clear "sidhi ungi se ghee nahi niklenga" , and preparation for saving dawat was meant to be started.
But Khuzaima was allegedly advised by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA to disclose his alleged nass only after his death. Are you saying he started the preparation during hayat tayeba of the 52nd Dai RA ?
yes this is why he didnt declared, but remaining prepared is not wrong as per farmaan of SMB.

open declaration just came after demise of SMB, so he did followed the farmaan.

hsnhussain
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 7:36 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#9

Unread post by hsnhussain » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:10 am

james wrote: But Khuzaima was allegedly advised by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA to disclose his alleged nass only after his death. Are you saying he started the preparation during hayat tayeba of the 52nd Dai RA ?
Your statement reminds me of a classmate who used to say "why start studying now when there is still a month left for exams."

SBM
Posts: 6228
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#10

Unread post by SBM » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:30 am

Have we come across a son who is busy with targeting his opponents in the 1st 10 days while he should be grieving his reverend father?
Yes
Aurangzeb whom Abde Bohras hate so much so there is a similarity between Aurangzeb and SMS

SBM
Posts: 6228
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#11

Unread post by SBM » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:52 am

Why Shezada Mufaddal Saheb has not taken an oath on Quran that he is the rightful Mansoos and the Nass has been done on him as proclaimed by him ?
Because a Unkown Hindu has testified that SMB told him in his dreams that Nuss was done on SMS so SMS does not need Quran to take oath
Shezada Mufaddal saheb has been inviting this leaders like Udhav Thakerey, Raj Thakerey, Sharad Pawar, Naredra Modi, and above all Baba Ramdev.
Only the leaders of Hindus can verify the claim of another Hindu's testimony.
Why Shezada Mufaddal saheb doesn’t want to educate the community?
Then educated people like you start questioning him and his Hikmat
Women Education has been very important in Islam
But Abdes are not Muslims, they are MUMINS and if women get educated then who will make ROTIS
51st Dai was a person of known intelligence and 52nd of his spirituality.
And look where Dawat is today :cry:
Can Shezada Mufaddal saheb explain why 2nd in command will go rival ?
Yes-2nd in command is victim of Black Magic which he is now spreading to Muffy Abdes
Will a Son do this to his Father ? Will a Dai be made to suffer like this
Yes-they learned it from their favorite ruler-Aurangzeb
A brother was not allowed for burial of his brother? A Mazoon was not allowed for burial of his Dai for 50 years ? Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb explain this ?
That is TAAWIL and you will be not be able to comprehend it
Quantity is not what matters – 6-7 people to support RasulAllah, Very few people to follow Moulana Ali initially, while 72 with Imam Hussain. We know what their strength today. If Quantity is strength than Islam would not have survived.
And you know what happened to all of them--they gave their lives.
Where will the Shezada Mufaddal saheb get the spiritual connect ?
Baba Ramdev
More to follow

SBM
Posts: 6228
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#12

Unread post by SBM » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:05 am

Fakhruddin Suratwala
I like your posting but seems you are giving too much credit to 51st and 52nd. If memory serves right, the Dawat got hijacked and got corrupted during the reins of 51s t and was perfected for corruption and nepotism by 52nd and now totally screwed up by the questionable 53rd SMS

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#13

Unread post by james » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:14 am

M Taha wrote: yes this is why he didnt declared, but remaining prepared is not wrong as per farmaan of SMB.
It would be a hard sell to say that he himself registered the website without anyone assisting him. :roll:

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#14

Unread post by M Taha » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:16 am

james wrote:
M Taha wrote: yes this is why he didnt declared, but remaining prepared is not wrong as per farmaan of SMB.
It would be a hard sell to say that he himself registered the website without anyone assisting him. :roll:
Ms was preparing this scam from last 30 years, and almost all wrong schemes got introduced in dawat just by his toli, so what is wrong if few people with HAQ started preparing battle against falsehood?

even Imam hussain started preparationg for karbala, before few years.

exploitedpocket
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#15

Unread post by exploitedpocket » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:18 am

james wrote:Fakhruddinsuratwala


Why was the website fatemidawat.com registered on 18th November 2013/15th Muharram 1435H ?

To know the logical answer for this suddenly risen sense of humor of an abde, please refer to your local Amil, and ask him why takhmeens for fat vaajebaats began months before the holy month and money collected as well in 99% takhmeens.

He will nicely explain you the hidden hikmats and kindly assume the same as solution for your above mentioned query.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 802
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#16

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:27 am

arrey bhai Taha.....James is blind, deaf and dumb, he does not want to understand, whatever you are trying to make him understand, i have said before also save yourself for some one brave who can face these facts and statements, not coward and pussy cats hiding in their wardrobe and coming to this website. Muffadal Moula had passed a farman long time ago, that do not see what we do not want you to see, then why the hell do you get your uptown hairy face on this website, go tell your master to make a website to debate for him only and not against him, he cannot because he knows that majority of people will speak about reforms and changes. Muffy ne khali shikar kartawa aawe che james bhai.....anney tu ohno shikar che!

hasman001
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#17

Unread post by hasman001 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:10 pm

Akhtiar bhai i think you are wrong. I hardly think james is a shikar. James is actually someone very close to the kothar specifically planted on this forum to try and debate intelligently with reformists so that new members find it hard to open their eyes to reality. SMS camp for sure has been monitoring this website..and i think they are getting scared ofthe burgeoning roots of revolt.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 802
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#18

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:17 pm

I think people from Kothar are Baba Ramdev followers since Muffy did not hug his kaka but instead a Baba!

adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#19

Unread post by adna_mumin » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:34 pm

Nass without witness is questionable but the fake documents become more questionable. Does Shezada Mufaddal saheb or his office has any fake clarification on it ?
To put this on record, is the intended reference to "Nass" here the London event or what SKQ alleges of 50 years ago? The London event sure supposed to have had "witnesses", folks are doubting those "witnesses" is another matter.

Many of your points are definitely ponder-worthy but not all. Some observations down below:
37) Name of Aali Qadr from Taher Saifuddin Moula- - Name Aali Qadr was given by 51st Dai but that doesn’t prove anything while the name of SKQ was also given by 51st Dai.
The subject matter of this point is not that Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA gave the name - as he may have to many of his children or grandchildren. I am reasonably sure the stress is to the term "Aali Qadr" instead to mean that Moula RA by giving that name was conveying of the shaan of this child!

Now, consider 2 of your statements,
Strap him to the chair (Hear say) I am not a witness to it.

AND
People how have disobeyed 52nd Dai (PYN and his sons), people who cheated him, People who fired gun shots at 52nd Dai, gave him steroids and straped him to make him sit erect..Are they to be believed?
So while in the initial part of your post you admit this (strap allegation) was mere hearsay, now you go on to make that as (one of) basis for (un)belief?

Let's dissect this second statement bit more.

People how have disobeyed 52nd Dai (PYN and his sons): What was the disobedience, who and when it happened?
people who cheated him: Again what was the cheating and who did it when?
People who fired gun shots at 52nd Dai: Fingers shiver as one types this, when did this happen and why not let's gather this one thing itself and expose the hypocrites with our fullest might. You can count me in to help in whatever way if you have anything to move this forward?

P.S: Sincere request, let's move beyond the individual users here, no point will be achieved by engaging in who is motivated how. If we instead spend time discussing the matter and principle, will go a long way.

Allah ta knows best.

questions
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:11 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#20

Unread post by questions » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:41 pm

Fakhruddinsuratwala wrote:Logical reasons not to believe SMS
1) As Dai is known to have the ILM of everything than why Aqa Moula kept the other claimant as the Mazoon for 50 years and why he publicly never said anything about Shezada Mufaddalbhai Saheb until his illness. Aqa Moula would have removed SKQ long before if that was the case but he kept him in his current position for 50 years that clearly reflects that the Aqa Moula Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA had faith in the Mazoon and that reflects clearly that 52nd Dai was not in favour of changing the Mazoon nor the Mansoos(being the same).
Why Nass was done after the Moula got sick? Why not before that ?
2) No sustainable proof that Nass was conferred upon him as there is any video of the Hospital Nass done on him and the Raudat ul Tahera chapter is absolute orchestrated between the Aqa moula sons and Dr Moiz bhai saheb. 1388 document is a very questionable document which will not stand anywhere as it was produced after 4 days of Aqa Moula Wafaat and there is no current living mentioned as the witness who can verify it.
Why they don’t give us the strong proof of the Nass? Why Shezada Muffaddan sahib had to use the words that is he and his brother lying? Psychologically such kind of references are given by the people who carry the guilt.
3) Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin saheb and his team have taken a much sustained propaganda to prove that Shezada sahib is the right claimant. Such was the apprehension that they even brought a Hindu to claim that he saw a dream that Nass was conferred upon him. If that Hindu is such a believer and he knew that Nass was conferred upon him why he didn’t accept Islam as his religion.
Have we ever seen that propaganda has stooped so low that we have to bring any class of people to tell us who is the true Dai? Will Baba Ramdev or Sharad Pawar decide our Dai’s?
4) In the first 2 weeks of verbal and physical attack on Mazoon-e-Dawaat whom we all have given Misaak (including) Shezada Mufaddal sahib. They have shown their true character on what class or side of the religion they are going to propagate after the dust of the current controversy settles.
Have we come across a son who is busy with targeting his opponents in the 1st 10 days while he should be grieving his reverend father?
5) Allowed the women of the family to accept the Taziyat while in our sect Women accept Taziyat until 3rd day. Accepted Najwa and Money while accepting the Taziyat.
Have we ever come across that any religious leaders accepting gifts while grieving his own father?
6) Gilafs (cloth which is put on the religiously important graves) for Aqa Moula Turbet were sold at hefty prices all over the Jamaats and huge amount was collected.
Have we ever come across a son who tries to make money out of his own Father turbet in the first 10 days of grieving?
7) All other Dai’s in history have been carried on shoulders of memineen or the family and especially the Mansoos but in this case the Janaza was placed on the truck with the Kalma was hidden by the National Flag. Did you ensure that the National Flag was washed before placed. People who touched the flag were clean?
Did any Son do such things to achieve public glory and undermine the janaza of our beloved Aqa Moula?
8) Quran as guidance and witness – Despite all claims the hujjat was done based on documents and other irrelevant things while Shezada Mufaddal saheb should come forward and take an oath on Quran that the Nass has been done on him. Let all witnesses also do the same so it becomes between them and Allah and poor Bohras stay out of it. Right now the Bohras are in dilemma
Why Shezada Mufaddal Saheb has not taken an oath on Quran that he is the rightful Mansoos and the Nass has been done on him as proclaimed by him ?
9) As offered by the other side that a public debate be held between the two claimants and let it be judged by the Islamic Scholers to decide who is the rightful claimant was either ignored or avoided.
Why Shezada Mufaddal Saheb is not willing to get into a debate with the other claimant ? Is he scared that his knowledge will be proved too little against a giant in knowledge.? Moulana Ali always was ready for the debate while the 3 Shaitans always moved away from it.
10) Created 3 specific sites – 53 reasons not to believe SKQ, Pearls of Wisdom and Moula Mufaddla overnight to counter FatemiDawat website. Even created a fake website for ITS to blame it on the other Claimant. Spent Millions of Rupees on this stunts where if you are on Haq than they should be worried about the claims done by anyone?
If Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin Saheb is on Haq and right on claiming the truth why they are working so hard on refuting the claim.?
11) Aqa Moula was coerced on taking some decisions. Especially the propaganda of the Kenya Visit of the other claimant where the other side has a letter stating the names of the two brothers who were working on the instructions of the Shezada Mufaddal sahib and Shezada Qaid Johar. When Aqa Moula went on the visit to Africa he said to save the split in the community that he believes that the two brothers have no role in troubling Mazoon E Dawaat but at the same time he categorically mentioned that “ Bhai Kutbuddin ne ghani takleef uthavi padi” if Moula knew that the other claimant was wrong he would have no mentioned anything about him. Indirectly he also mentioned that Aqa Moula himself had to go through this turmoil in Tanzania before few years and he knew who was behind it.
Why Aqa Moula didn’t say a word to Mazoon e Dawaat if he was wrong ? Why Sheikh Hussain of Nairobi contacted Shezada Qaid Johar and Shezada Mufaddal Saheb instead of going straight to Aqa Moula?
12) If Mazoon E Dawaat is the second highest Rutba in the Community than why was he sidelined for years and insulted by the sons of Aqa Moula and why was he pushed in Surat by the goons of Badre Jamali bs and Kher bs. Why was the great tamasha created when the other claimant wanted to come for ziyarat after the sad demise of Aqa Moula ?
Does a religious leader of a peaceful community do these kinds of heinous acts? Does anyone stop anyone from ziyarat of his father and his brother and above all his dais? If the other claimant was stopped while he has powerethan where do we mumineen stand ?
13) Shejadas walking on the heads of the Mumeneen – As most of us have seen that during the burial of Aqa Moula several Shezadas walked on people heads/ topis so casually that as if it was their birthright? I am sure Shezada Mufaddal saheb has seen this video and why didn’t take his brothers and sons to task?
Is his brothers, nephew and sons more important to Shezada Mufaddal saheb or the community? If community why he doesn’t ask for a public apology from his relatives for such a shameful act.?
14) Shezada Qaid Johar visit Switzerland and France after few days of the Wafaat of Aqa Moula which is known to almost all of us. If that is the case what was the need to travel in the days of grief of Wafaat of Aqaa Moula ?
Is Shezada Mufaddal saheb aware of his travel and if that could be made public why there was so urgency in travel to Switzerland and France ?
15) Vaaz of Shezada Mufaddal saheb is pure rhetoric and nothing to add as at times I have seen people sleeping in Markaz while the other are playing games on mobile. Whereas the other claimant has been known for his knowledge and substance in zikr.
Why Shezada Mufaddal saheb knowledge is so limited while the Dai has to have the knowledge of everything ?
16) For years Aqa Moula use to try to avoid leaders who have been non secular and divisive and at time 52nd Dai use to be very clear on what is his views on such leaders. He has evaded for years Narendra Modi while Narendra Modi use to barge in the Masjid while Aqa Moula use to do vudu after use to leave. Shezada Mufaddal saheb has been inviting this leaders like Udhav Thakerey, Raj Thakerey, Sharad Pawar, Naredra Modi, and above all Baba Ramdev. All this leaders are corrupt and have no ethics and in some or the other way liable for killing thousands of Muslims while Shezada Mufaddal saheb was mingling with them as if they were a part of his own campaign.
Why was Shezada Mufaddal saheb so eager to show this people coming to meet or pay condolences ? Was he feeling too important or he had to show that he was important?
17) RasulAllah used to say that education is so important that if you have to go to China please do so while SMS actually prohibits secular education and have imposed on us only the religious education. Is the Deen of RasulAllah not right for him?
Why Shezada Mufaddal saheb doesn’t want to educate the community?
18) Women Education has been very important in Islam and several Muslim Women have contributed to Islam in a big way. While all the Dai’s and especially Aqa Moula Burhanuddin Moula use to propagate education for our girls always and I have personally heard some of the bayans while SMS does the exactly opposite.
Why Shezada Mufaddal saheb doesn’t talk about education and uplifting the Bohra Community in terms of education? Why no scholarship or other higher education schemes are started by SMS? Is educating the Women of the society brings the change in the society and that is what Shezada Mufaddal Saheb is afraid off?
19) Ideology - Fundamentals of Islam and the Ideology of Dai are the principles on which our Dawaat has been working historically. 51st Dai was a person of known intelligence and 52nd of his spirituality.
What is the ideology of Shehzada and why he doesn’t come out in spell his ideology for the community?
20) After the Nass was proclaimed by Shezada Mufaddal saheb after Aqa Moula suffered stroke, a 50 page document was created by Shezada Mufaddal saheb and his brothers which speaks of the Nass done in London (which has no proof) and the drama at RT. But there was no mention of the 1388 Nass which they claim is documented. If this document was with them why this document was not mentioned in the 50 page document and why no reference of it earlier.
Nass without witness is questionable but the fake documents become more questionable. Does Shezada Mufaddal saheb or his office has any fake clarification on it ?
21) How can second in command become a Rebel ? In history there has not one instance where the second in command gone rebel. In case of 29th Dai the case was quite different as the Nass was never an issue there. It was a simple case of ambition getting over Syedi Qutub Sulieman.
Can Shezada Mufaddal saheb explain why 2nd in command will go rival ?
22) Argument is that the Aqa Moula was coerced in saying things which he never approved. During the times of PYN and later his sons and Aqa Moula own sons have manipulate, maneuver, or influenced the decision either by coercion, pleading or even blackmailing. If they could get decisions against Mazoon e Dawaat 38 years ago on Nairobi incident or Cairo Incident when Moula was hale and hearty that getting the Nass fabiracted would be very easy when Aqa Moula was seriously ill.
If 1388 Nass was conferred than what was the reason to sideline Mazoon E Dawat ? Why so many conspiracies against the people who were aligned with former Mazoon e Dawat? Can Shezada Mufaddal saheb explain it ?
23) Steroids and Straps : A normal human being would not do this to his father what Kothar and especially Dr Moiz bhai and sons of Aqa Moula have done to our beleoved Aqa Moula. Give steroids to Aqa Moula just to keep his vital organs running ? Strap him to the chair (Hear say) I am not a witness to it.
Will a Son do this to his Father ? Will a Dai be made to suffer like this ? Will a 100 year old Man made to suffer like this ? Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb answer this ?
24) Not allowing the other claimant from attending the Janaza of Aqa Moula was the greatest crime. Right now the blame is put on SKQ but as we know always that goons of Kothar would not have allowed him to come there and do you think they would let them go alive.
A brother was not allowed for burial of his brother? A Mazoon was not allowed for burial of his Dai for 50 years ? Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb explain this ?
25) Arguments put forwards against by the so called Think Tank of SMS is flawed. Some of the arguments put in are so illogical or flawed on facts that it makes you laugh. Does SMS have the knowledge of these websites and if so why he doesn’t stop them? Or it is done with his permission?
If Shezada Mufaddal saheb knows about the arguments than he himself will feel that he has to rethink his ideology or (strategy)?
26) Quantity is not what matters – 6-7 people to support RasulAllah, Very few people to follow Moulana Ali initially, while 72 with Imam Hussain. We know what their strength today. If Quantity is strength than Islam would not have survived.
Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb carry the quantity or quality?
27) Quality is that Matters – In terms of Ilm, Akhlaq and Rutba the other claimant stands quite tall in comparison to SMS. SMS and his brothers know about it and that is their major discomfort.
Will SMS agree to debate with SKQ?
28) Spirituality – When use to see 51st and 52nd Dai, we could see the spirituality despite stiff opposition but there was a spirituality connect with the people. Major problem with the Shezada Mufaddal sahib is the lack of spirituality connect. His bayans are baseless and read out with noconnection to the people. Kakaji Gale lagavi layshu dialougue has been blown out of proportion and next day Baba Ramdev ne gale lagavi didha…
Where will the Shezada Mufaddal saheb get the spiritual connect ?
29) Below is one of the comments on one of the sites which are flawed and written with simple emotions and no logic.
When I was born, HE helped my parents get my name from Moula RA. You were busy giving your own.
- Moula had given raza to give names. Secondly people went to him to get names from him. Does Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin have the ability to give right mazoon (forget the names)?
HE made my parents understand that Deeni Taaleem preceded secular education. You showed your children the opposite.
- RasulAllah said that deeni talim is important but at the same time the secular education is equally important. RasulAllah used to let go prisoners of war free if they were able to teach 10 people to read. Aqa Moula never restricted education but Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin does.
HE addresses my children in his bayans. You are incomprehensible to them.
- It is your choice and not theirs.
HE captured their hearts. You were irrelevant to them.
- There are thousands but scared of excommunication by the community. Irrelevance comes at a stage where you are of no value but writing pages after pages about him states that how important he is.
HE has taught them to recite Moula’s shahadat (of Imam Husain SA). You have not seemed to learn it yourself.
- Educate yourself as for years SKQ vasilo on Ashura afternoon was yearned by people. We use to wait for it when we were kids. SMS and his brothers have tormented SKQ so much that he preferred to stay away from the Ashura and he used to go and do Vaaz as per the Raza Mubarak.
HE was busy taking Moula’s mesaaq. Your allegiance was to yourself alone.
- SKQ has given misaaq to Moula for years and Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin used to give Ahad to him and did Sajda to him as well. If Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin was mansoos than why did he do sajda to Mazoon.
HE was seen satiating the thirst of a Jamea student. You were thinking them gundao.
- Everyone knows that the Jamea students are goons of Badrul Jamali and Kher and PYN before.
HE struggled amidst the mountains of Yemen. You were busy making mountains out of molehills.
- After the struggle also he couldn’t unite the community there. Aqa Moula Mohammed Burhanuddin RA struggled and not Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin . Please correct your facts.
HE shows me the Shari’at. You show me how to abuse it
- Playing bands in masjids and marakez was not taught by SKQ. Putting pictures of Dai’s was not taught by SKQ. Taking money on every pretext was not taught by SKQ. All these practices were started by PYN, his sons and the Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin and his brothers. So who abused the Shariat? Who placed the national flag on the Kalema? Correct your facts.
HE shows me business. You show me interest.
- Dealing with Mercantile Bank was stopped because of the land deal. Who was dealing in Banks? There are 12 banks or ATMs on Dawaat Properties. Who is taking interest? Check with Dawaat e Hadiyah Trust how many other properties they have which are rented to Banks or related institutions? Check your facts.
HE took me to Moula’s RA hazrat. You were hardly there.
- Absolutely as Moula had given him Raza to do many other important works which his sons didn’t have the capacity to conclude.
HE blessed me with courage for Moula’s ziyafat. You were encouraging your own.
- No comments as I am against Ziyafat
HE facilitated deedar. You resonated inkaar.
- No Comments as yet it is not clear who is right for the Inkaar.
HE taught me participation in Moula’s Ashara Mubarakah. You advocated alienation.
- It was not alienation but doing Waaz at other places with Raza Mubarak of Aqa Moula.
HE shows me Moula’s ability. You speak of his incapacity.
- Absolute Lies as SKQ has never tried to show the incapacity of 52nd Dai.
HE ensures me Moula’s Faizul Mawaid. You were busy buying your support.
- By calling all this Baba’s and Killers of Muslims what was Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin trying to buy ? Udhav Thakeray, Raj Thakrey and Narendra Modi…Wow what an audience to buy support for ownself.
HE opens ziyaarat. You closed it.
- His own choice. You have no right to debate that as Moula Taher Saifuddin Moula use to do the same.
HE tirelessly joins hearts. You fract Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin ured a community.
- It can be said the same for SMS. If you don’t want to fracture it why don’t you visit Thane and sort the family issue.
HE walked in a throng of supplicants. You had to beckon them.
- All Zaman Imam and Dai’s who were on right path did that.
HE smiled at us. You frowned.
- People like you made him frown.
30) Comparison of SKQ to SMS by individuals
There has been complete silence from SKQ and has been no abusive language used by them while the goons in from Nairobi or Mumbai or even Surat have come forward with incidents that has no relevance to the incidents they are mentioning and SKQ. But the only issue that baffles me is if Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin believes that he is on Haqq that why he is trying to compare himself through his goons to SKQ. Cheap publicity, humongous hoardings and celebrations that cost crores is done just to bohra believe that who is the right Dai?
Can Shezada Mufaddal saheb prove that the he is better than SKQ ?
31) To have sight but no vision
Yes we firmly believe that Shezada Mufaddal saheb has and had a long sight on the Dai ship but he lacks vision and he will have to play in the hands of his brothers, uncles and the most important brother in laws.
Can Shezada Mufaddal saheb guide the mumineens to his vision ? If he has any ?
32) Difference of Education between the two brothers sons
As we already know that the Son of Sayedna Mumammed Burhanuddin were spoiled with intention by PYN and his sons. None of the sons of 52nd Dai has deeni ilm of that extent and most of the degrees they have are either bought or from Jamea – Surat.
While we know that the sons of SKQ are highly educated equally in Deeni Talim along with secular education.
Shezada Mufaddal Saheb himself forgets dua’s in bayans, at times he doesn’t remember what 2 rakats we pray after magrib (Dafil Affat). If that is the state of our his Taleem…how can we take him as Dai ?
Does Dai forget such simple things that too of Deen?
33) No Comparison
Till 50th Dai Dawat was under severe pressure from several sources and had debt on it. 51st Dai worked so hard to get things in place and he created this whole set up while 52nd Dai took this forward along with his Mazoon and Mukasir to ensure that the people stay together and prosper. SKQ has several projects on his name which he ensured that they were successful. Name one project which Shezada Mufaddal saheb has carried on his shoulders and delivered.
Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb all over his era rely on his supports ?
34) Rhethoric is no substance.
Saying one and the same things 100 times might be right with Bohra who have forgotten to think on their own but it will carry no substance with people who will have brains. Will Shezada Mufaddal saheb be able to convince the intellectual community.
35) Is it reasonable to dismiss the entire nass of 1388 H by declaring the document as a forgery without having even seen it, held it, or examined it? Argument is whether 52nd Dai’s broher, sons, nephews are not to be trusted on this aspect ?
People how have disobeyed 52nd Dai (PYN and his sons), people who cheated him, People who fired gun shots at 52nd Dai, gave him steroids and straped him to make him sit erect..Are they to be believed?
36) Like Father Like Son – Adam Nooh and Sayedna Taher Saifuddin
Argument put forward that ADAM AS had two sons out of which Habil was good and Qabil was not. And Similarly Sons of 51st Dai are put in this context. Here the comparison is flawed and that can be understood from the below :
The Qur'an states that the story of Qabil and Habel was a message[7] for mankind, as it had told them about the consequences of murder and that the killing of one person would be as if he/she had slain the whole of mankind. But the Qur'an states that still people rejected the message of the story and continued to commit grave sins, slaying prophets, messengers as well as the righteous people. All the prophets who preached since the time of Adam were persecuted, insulted or reviled in one way or another. With some righteous men, however, the Qur'an states that people went one step further, in attempting to slay them or indeed slaying them. The Qur'an itself mentions the slaying of the righteous, saying "As to those who deny the Signs of God and in defiance of right, slay the prophets, and slay those who teach just dealing with mankind, announce to them a grievous penalty".[
37) Name of Aali Qadr from Taher Saifuddin Moula- - Name Aali Qadr was given by 51st Dai but that doesn’t prove anything while the name of SKQ was also given by 51st Dai.
38) Davedaar ni Kahani – I have received 20 videos with the above title. Some of them are the same people talking. In the community of 2 Million almost only 20 people know how bad SKQ is ? Give me a break sir…
39) The Case of the Honorific: Al-Walad al-Ahab (The Beloved Son) – SKQ claims that he called by Aqa Moula 3 times as Al Walad Al Ahab publicly. I don’t understand the logic of SKQ but refuting something like this with even naive argument that he called all the children as “Pyara Pyara Farzando” In last 50 years I have not heard Aqa Moula say the same for Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin publicly..
A sage was asked: Which of your children are most beloved to you? He replied: The youngest amongst them till he matures, and the ailing amongst them till he is cured, and the distant amongst them till he returns.
In the context of the above SKQ was the youngest of the sons of 51st Dai, he is not been well for a while and distant as he was to Aqa Moula 
40) Intellectuals sidelined and opposition crushed – Several intellectuals have been sidelines by the Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin , his brothers and brothers in law and opposition simply crushed. 1980 na Mufaddalia have come out in open today.
Does Dawaat or Dai crush people and sideline the people with secular or Deeni Ilm ?
41) Reason #41: Regarding The Mutation Of The Misaaq And Deviation From Haqq
“Mutation of Misaaq and Shari’at to suit personal agenda
Misaaq. Most important point: Very soon after Sh Qaid Joher bhaisaheb announced “Nass” on Shz Mufaddal bhaisaheb, Shz Mufaddal bhaisaheb had his own name inserted into the misaaq following the name of the Dai, adding to and modifying the misaaq text. The misaaq text is inviolable and cannot be tampered with under any circumstances. One who violates this trust cannot be haqq-na-saheb.”
A close reading of the above text unveils the following claims:
A specific ibarat (text) was sent by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s Vazarat (office) which functioned under His direction with His permission and blessings containing the proper text to be recited following Syedna Burhanuddin’s name containing the Mansoos’s name in the Misaaq. Any claim to the contrary should be backed with proof since the allegation is very grave and is tantamount to saying that every namaz and religious matter, rite and custom conducted in the last few years was without Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s RA Raza Mubarak and thus invalid. Questioning and doubting the validity of the actions of the al Dai al Mutlaq and the affairs of His Vazarat should not be a mumin’s concern.
Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin wanted nothing to prevent him to become the Dai so he inserted his own name in Misaq which has never been the case in history. Why such a hurry to do this?
Secondly Dai was ill to give any kind of permission and this kind of Raza cannot be obtained from the office of Dai but change in Misaq is such an important change which a specific permission from Dai. That implicates that change was done without the raza of Aqa Moula.
42) Vacant position of Mazoon e Dawaat – Keeping the position of Mazoon itself speaks how much influence the brother have on Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin. Does Dai work under pressure ?
43) Mufadalia – In 1990’s there was a strong group which use to have lot of influence and weightage in the community started a campaign that Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin would be the next Dai. Aqa Moula has 7 sons and why SMS was singled out because of only one reason. He was the son in law of PYN. PYN had a long ambition to become the Dai but because of his own character he could not.
44) Dawaat e Hadiyah Trust -
Biggest of all….136,000 Crores (22 Billion USD – 13 Billion Sterlings) Don’t you think this is the reasonable amount to fight it for ??????

Very well summarized ! But I would urge all concerned people to realize ultimately it's about money and lots if it
Do not get bogged down in details of videos and documents and who is alive to give witness etc
The most important test is who is following Islam in true spirit and who has least greed for money ....

maxthemature
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#21

Unread post by maxthemature » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:24 pm

Fakhruddin we know whose chamcha u r and what u trying to do here!
All ur stupid logical explanatins answers r given in www.believesyednaqutbuddin.com (inspired by syedna qutbuddin shaheed mola 32nd dai) and after everything if u have still doubts then u might as well leave our religion and join elsewhere
Let me tell u all in our zyafat in surat burhanuddin aqa mentioned bhai muffadal ni bhi zyafat aapjo! 53rd ma dai che ehna kadam ma barakat che and we all got close to mola and his wordings were crystal clear mola repeated thrice!dr moiz bsb was stopped by mola and mola himself said and we had to come quite close to hear it!

U guys can keep on typing shit as and how much u like but wallahilazeem not once twice thrice but many occasions mola has done nas on muffadal mola tus!
Guys I am repeatedly telling u khuzema and his sons r fraudsters and just way too many proof just way too many audio and video proof available for all to see! This blog itself wud come to an end forever once all go through everything! As a fmly we have been told shocking stuff by them over the years and we had approached huzurala as well and were asked to stay silent by his own blood brothers as he was in mazoom rutba and if kicked out that time he wud have done fitnat 100 times more and wud hav openly started swearing on burhanuddin aqa as well
Anywys anyone need his fake claims and audio proof pls feel free to contact me!
Shukran

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#22

Unread post by wise_guy » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:31 pm

maxthemature wrote:
Guys I am repeatedly telling u khuzema and his sons r fraudsters and just way too many proof just way too many audio and video proof available for all to see! This blog itself wud come to an end forever once all go through everything! As a fmly we have been told shocking stuff by them over the years and we had approached huzurala as well and were asked to stay silent by his own blood brothers as he was in mazoom rutba and if kicked out that time he wud have done fitnat 100 times more and wud hav openly started swearing on burhanuddin aqa as well
Anywys anyone need his fake claims and audio proof pls feel free to contact me!
Shukran

@max the immature : Tell me, till now which side has given more lanats?? Khozema Qutbuddin side has still not given lanats or abuses to the other side.

maxthemature
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#23

Unread post by maxthemature » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:59 pm

Mr fooolish oops wise guy don't jump in from between do some homework
Before u come up with same old repeated crap! All was been told and explaned
And if u still need audio video proofs inumerous feel free to msg me...
Loads of ppl have received and have accepted wit emberassment for
Even saying a word in support of this low quality fraudster!
And well lanat is wajib on imams and his dais enemy so if ordinary ppl like me and u say it
No big deal! Infact such ppl shud dealt more severly may the same
Way molana ali did against the enemies of rasool!!
By the way whoever wanted to know has came to know the truth
And whoever does not wanna and jus for entertainment can sit here and keep reading shit and bark as long as they like

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#24

Unread post by M Taha » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:09 pm

Instead of refuting each points with intellectual and logic, again MS goondas have started abusing and threatning.

it seems this is only way they know to forcefully hide truth.

SBM
Posts: 6228
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#25

Unread post by SBM » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:09 pm

maxmature
Why you keeping asking people to PM you for proof why do not you just post it here. You are not that important to me that I am going to send you a PM. Is it TAAWIL that you can not share with everyone. If you have proof just post it here so every one can read and understand it. Do not give yourself too much importance by asking everyone to CONTACT ME/ PM ME

shehzada
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#26

Unread post by shehzada » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:09 pm

hasman001 wrote:Akhtiar bhai i think you are wrong. I hardly think james is a shikar. James is actually someone very close to the kothar specifically planted on this forum to try and debate intelligently with reformists so that new members find it hard to open their eyes to reality. SMS camp for sure has been monitoring this website..and i think they are getting scared ofthe burgeoning roots of revolt.

I totally am in agreement on this and would advise you to ignore her/his. This person keeps on bombarding every thread with posts like her/his life depends on it.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#27

Unread post by M Taha » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:35 pm

The way james has tailormade replies it is obvious he is trying to do this as a JOB and not as a regular member.

but any ways he is not good in what ever he is trying to do lol

Bohra spring
Posts: 1272
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#28

Unread post by Bohra spring » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:14 pm

maxthemature wrote:Mr fooolish oops wise guy don't jump in from between do some homework
Before u come up with same old repeated crap! All was been told and explaned
And if u still need audio video proofs inumerous feel free to msg me...
Loads of ppl have received and have accepted wit emberassment for
Even saying a word in support of this low quality fraudster!
And well lanat is wajib on imams and his dais enemy so if ordinary ppl like me and u say it
No big deal! Infact such ppl shud dealt more severly may the same
Way molana ali did against the enemies of rasool!!
By the way whoever wanted to know has came to know the truth
And whoever does not wanna and jus for entertainment can sit here and keep reading shit and bark as long as they like
Max wow how have you made SKQ the enemy of SMS and call him low quality.

Since when claiming leadership makes one an enemy. He has claimed leadership and there could be reason he is right give him a chance to validate his claim. He has not attacked physically or verbally .

Really you guys need to come out of the Stone Age...you can not take any questioning or challenge...any debate is treated like an act of war. Whether it means asking for accounts, questioning an instruction or suggesting and alternative. This Gestapo style will bring you guys down. At least SKQ allows time to listen and even if he does not respond as one would like him he has reached half way of being an inspiring leader.

And don't accuse Imam Ali aS to be intolerant or temperamental . He would only lift a sword as a last resort and where there was an act of war. You deserve cursing if you loosely tarnish the Revered Imams reputation so casually.

About accusing someone of low quality , ask yourself are you as knowledgable and of good character compared to SKQ . If that is the case why we're you not the Mazoom. He was the deputy of the 52 nd Diai so respect him of that position as a baseline.

If not you are are rubbishing the 52 and 51 st decision and foresight. Is that what SMS is trying to do through you to replace the glory of the 51 and 52 in abdes mind. I will not be surprised because he has guzzumped the 52 nds birthday bash. If that is the case then 52 need not worry about reformists , his own abdes will shoot his credibility.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#29

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:37 pm

Mr. max immature, How I wish your mother to have had the headache the night you were conceived.

trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#30

Unread post by trvoice » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:02 am

seeker110 wrote:Mr. max immature, How I wish your mother to have had the headache the night you were conceived.
+1 Dad should have pulled out. :(