Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifuddin

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Spectator
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:08 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#61

Unread post by Spectator » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:36 pm

Qutbi Londoner aka qutbi hero. I would like to point out that I am female hence not bro! I have read some of your posts over several months and I initially thought some of your contributions were interesting. However that soon changed when you indulged in mud slinging matches with some of the so called Sunnis and Wahhabis on the forum i.e anajmi. Anajmi is expressing his point of view (like we all do) via this forum though I personally feel this is a forum for bohra reforms not a platform for sectarian debate. I do not like to read anti Shia sentiments on this forum either. I guess I do not like people slamming other peoples beliefs. Incidentally my other half is a Sunni and I can so feel you shaking your head in disgust! You have come across to me as a narrow minded person and a typical fence sitter pouring scorn over others on this forum. Since you are a qutbi hero I am guessing that you gave misaaq to qutbuddin moula? You live in London area right? And I know there was SKQ misaaq in one of the UK cities (as per fatemi dawaat website) which you must have attended. I guess you are not attending London masjid now that you are part of qutbi dawaat? I think you're probably still attending SMS functions and have not given misaak to SKQ all the while professing to be a qutbi hero. Did you go for SMS misaak majlis? You asked me why don't I join my spouse's community? Simple reason I do not want to. I am born and brought up into a bohra family and still value bohra teachings as they were. Bohra generally a honest and good people. I do not subscribe to all the recent innovations and still do not agree to Ejamaat cards. I agree that there is a lot of good in bohras but I won't say we are the best especially in the recent years with mufaddal bhaisaheb farmans about roti making and people indulging on laanats etc. The problem is that everyone thinks they are the best and right etc etc. Do you not see how poor bohras are humiliated but rich ones can get up to all sort of shenanigans and pay off the Jamaat to still stay in the fold. I have seen a lot of that. So qutbi hero I hope you go and give misaaq to SKQ asap and prove you are a man of conviction and announce your decision to your friends and family and come out of the closet. It must be getting stuffy in there for you.

Qutbi-Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#62

Unread post by Qutbi-Hero » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:42 pm

Spectator wrote:Qutbi Londoner aka qutbi hero. I would like to point out that I am female hence not bro!
Welcome Sister - we need more ladies on the forum... there's way too much testosterone around here lol!
I have read some of your posts over several months and I initially thought some of your contributions were interesting.
Stop being so reserved... my posts are the most awesome thing on the internet! :mrgreen:
However that soon changed when you indulged in mud slinging matches with some of the so called Sunnis and Wahhabis on the forum i.e anajmi.
Bullshit. If anybody mocks my faith - I will mock theirs... if you had true belief in anything, you would do the same Bhen.
Anajmi is expressing his point of view (like we all do) via this forum though I personally feel this is a forum for bohra reforms not a platform for sectarian debate.
Anajmi comes here to spread Wahhabi propaganda and hate - he is Anti-Shia therefore I am Anti-Sunni... otherwise I have no problem at all with "real" Sunnis, as they are the ones who respect the beliefs of other communities, instead of calling Shias Kufr like Anajmi does.
I do not like to read anti Shia sentiments on this forum either.
Bullshit, If this was true, then you'd speak out against it like I do - this forum is full of that crap.
I guess I do not like people slamming other peoples beliefs.
Really? Yet you defend Anajmi, when all he does is slam Shia beliefs, on a Shia forum!
Incidentally my other half is a Sunni
I see, now your post makes sense lol - you are upset at me for defending Shia Theology against Sunni attacks... and therefore concluded that I must dislike all Sunnis... when actually I only dislike a couple on this forum!
and I can so feel you shaking your head in disgust!
Quite the contrary - a good Sunni is no different to a good Shia... unfortunately your best buddy Anajmi is a bad Sunni...
You have come across to me as a narrow minded person and a typical fence sitter pouring scorn over others on this forum.
Fencesitter? Me! LOL!
I've made my decision as my username clearly describes - you on the other hand are sitting not just on the fence between Muffy & Kuzzy... but tragically on the fence now between Islam & Agnosticism... have faith Bhen, have faith.
Since you are a qutbi hero I am guessing that you gave misaaq to qutbuddin moula? You live in London area right? And I know there was SKQ misaaq in one of the UK cities (as per fatemi dawaat website) which you must have attended. I guess you are not attending London masjid now that you are part of qutbi dawaat? I think you're probably still attending SMS functions and have not given misaak to SKQ all the while professing to be a qutbi hero. Did you go for SMS misaak majlis?
You're very naive aren't you... I suggest you read a few of my older (and very lengthy!) posts :wink:
You asked me why don't I join my spouse's community? Simple reason I do not want to.
Why not? What have you got against the Sunni Community?
I am born and brought up into a bohra family and still value bohra teachings as they were. Bohra generally a honest and good people.
The same is true of good Sunnis - so why not join them instead of thinking about leaving Islam completely?
I do not subscribe to all the recent innovations and still do not agree to Ejamaat cards. I agree that there is a lot of good in bohras but I won't say we are the best especially in the recent years with mufaddal bhaisaheb farmans about roti making and people indulging on laanats etc. The problem is that everyone thinks they are the best and right etc etc. Do you not see how poor bohras are humiliated but rich ones can get up to all sort of shenanigans and pay off the Jamaat to still stay in the fold. I have seen a lot of that.
Yep, you most certainly need to read my past posts... I constantly criticise the Kothar for all their bullshit - which is why I'm a Qutbi-Hero now! (Gimme a high-five Sister!)
So qutbi hero I hope you go and give misaaq to SKQ asap and prove you are a man of conviction and announce your decision to your friends and family and come out of the closet. It must be getting stuffy in there for you.
Everybody who needs to know is well aware, indeed my family are just as Qutbi (and Heroic!) as me!

Anyway, you know Bhen, my post to you was friendly and supportive... yet you have been quite hostile in reply...

I realise this is due to your mistaken assumption that I generally hate all Sunnis (when in reality I only hate certain Sunnis, who deeply hate Shias, and go out of their way to join a Shia forum to spread that hate and call us Kufr :wink: ) so I'll drop this argument with you as it's not right for a man to exchange heated words with a Sister... but I do hope you remain a Muslim, be it Shia or Sunni.

Peace!

PS: Don't sit on the sidelines being a "Spectator" - listen to your heart and make a decision Bhen.

canadian
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#63

Unread post by canadian » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:39 pm

OMG I did not know this Qutbi Hero is reincarnation of DB Londoner and Qutbi Londoner. If I had known, I would not have responded to his mail on another subject. He is a muffy mole planted here to disrupt debates.

Spectator
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:08 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#64

Unread post by Spectator » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:43 pm

Qutbi hero I apologise if you found my reply to you hostile. I do not want to get into a quarrel. It's just that I felt that you were attacking sunnis and you sounded like the narrow minded badrijanab. Could I clarify that I have never defended Anajmi. If you can point out where I have defended him I will be most grateful and I will rectify that post. All I said that people are entitled to their opinions though we may not agree with those opinions. In fact sometimes it is so irksome coming across sunni/shia debates from people like Anajmi and badrijanab (and yes sometimes yourself) on this forum that I just skip the post. So I definitely do not defend Anajmi's views when he ranting off about shias and bohras etc. I just skip the post and ignore and wished he would take it to a sunni forum or whatever. I am sorry I have not read all your previous lengthy posts. I know you do criticize kothar for all its ills but I don't recall you mentioning that you and your family attended SKQ misaaq? Just by having qutbi hero as your username does not mean that you are out in the open. It was an honest question asking if you have stopped attending all of SMS dawaat functions? And are you out in the open supporters of SKQ like think-for-yourself from the USA? Did you have baraat imposed upon you?

I accept that I am a fence sitter bohra muslim agnostic and perhaps that is some sort of cowardice but I am fine with that. Yes I do wish my faith will be restored. As for my wish not to join the sunni community I do not want to. The reason for that is that I am happy with practicing my waning faith in my own in the confines of my own home. This is why I attend bohra jamaat very occasionally when I want to for ashara etc. Let the almighty be my judge.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#65

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:01 pm

Dear Sister Spectator,

What you have realized over the last few weeks, I have been saying on this forum for years. Think about how SKQ became a lanati within one day. Same is the case with anajmi. Just because you and qulfi do not agree with my point of view, doesn't mean I am wrong. Infact, quite the opposite. You now know that you were wrong. Maybe, you are wrong again. Be open minded. You have taken the first step. I have taken a few more. I hope you will be taking the rest soon inshaAllah. I advise you to spend a few months going through my 11000 plus posts and find the gems in them. SMS and SKQ are two sides of the same coin. Neither of them can live like Ali and neither of them will die like Hussain.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#66

Unread post by M Taha » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:02 pm

kick ass mozzy DB londoner need to be banned.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#67

Unread post by M Taha » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:05 pm

any one judging bohra faith by the action of muffy and his supporter need long sessions with some good psychiatrist.

Spectator
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:08 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#68

Unread post by Spectator » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:36 pm

Anajmi bhai I generally do not like to ascribe to Sunni/Shia debates. You may think your opinion holds true but I do not have to accept it. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions just as I am to mine. You may be right or wrong ..... God knows. We all think ours is the pristine faith. I am glad you found your calling and the perfect faith for you. Like I mentioned in my previous post to qutbi hero I am fine with being bohra muslim agnostic whatever it is. It gives me peace of mind. Just as there are some fanatic bohras there are also fanatic Sunnis too and I cannot be bothered all that. The main thing is to put your trust in Allah and live and let live.Btw I am not a follower of SMS or SKQ. They may be one the same thing. But from person experience I have met SKQ years ago and he seemed decent. So this lanaat business is disgusting.

anajmi
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Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#69

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:09 pm

Dear Sister Spectator,

You might not realize it, but you have already accepted my opinion. In my opinion, one shouldn't be following either SMS or SKQ and you are a follower of neither. So, you are of the same opinion as I. Now, what you choose to do next is up to you. Either take the next step now, or wait for something else to blow up before you take the next step. The choice is yours. Allah gave you a great blessing when he decided for you to marry outside the bohra community. Whether you take advantage of that or not is up to you. We are supposed to put our trust in Allah. But choosing to do nothing about the ills within the community is akin to abusing the blessings given to you by Allah. The least we can do is raise our voices on an anonymous forum. Do not say live and let live. Because that sounds to me like "Live and let die".

You have realized that what SMS is doing is wrong. Who was SMS' teacher? SMB. When a Dai couldn't teach his own son the right things, what kind of Dai is that? Think about it. I know, people will give the example of Nuh (as) and his son, but they would be as ignorant about them as about SMB and SMS. Nuh (as) wanted to reform his son and Nuh (as) survived the flood. Nuh (as)'s son was killed in the flood. He wasn't able to carry on with his mischief. SMS is very much alive and will continue to milk the bohras for who knows how many decades, unless the bohras wake up.

As far as SKQ is concerned, if he had been in SMS' position, he would've been throwing lanaats around too. If he is decent, then he should live like Ali. Give up the claim to the throne and prevent the division of families. Will he?
Last edited by anajmi on Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SBM
Posts: 6228
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#70

Unread post by SBM » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:15 pm

If he is decent, then he should live like Ali. Give up the claim to the throne and prevent the division of families. Will he?
Br Anajmi
Sometimes you have to fight for the right causes, If Imam Hussain would not have stood up to tyranny of Yazid then the Islamic history would have been written very differently. Imam Hussain did not fight to claim the throne but for the cause. I am neither SMS or SKQ camper as you might have already known about that.

anajmi
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Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#71

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:20 pm

SBM,

I was only trying to make a point. SKQ isn't Imam Hussain. I guarantee you that when push comes to shove, more bohras will die and SKQ will take flight. And then SKQ followers will give the example of Imam Hassan just like current abdes do.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#72

Unread post by M Taha » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:56 pm

anajmi wrote:Dear Sister Spectator,

You might not realize it, but you have already accepted my opinion. In my opinion, one shouldn't be following either SMS or SKQ and you are a follower of neither. So, you are of the same opinion as I. Now, what you choose to do next is up to you. Either take the next step now, or wait for something else to blow up before you take the next step. The choice is yours. Allah gave you a great blessing when he decided for you to marry outside the bohra community. Whether you take advantage of that or not is up to you. We are supposed to put our trust in Allah. But choosing to do nothing about the ills within the community is akin to abusing the blessings given to you by Allah. The least we can do is raise our voices on an anonymous forum. Do not say live and let live. Because that sounds to me like "Live and let die".

You have realized that what SMS is doing is wrong. Who was SMS' teacher? SMB. When a Dai couldn't teach his own son the right things, what kind of Dai is that? Think about it. I know, people will give the example of Nuh (as) and his son, but they would be as ignorant about them as about SMB and SMS. Nuh (as) wanted to reform his son and Nuh (as) survived the flood. Nuh (as)'s son was killed in the flood. He wasn't able to carry on with his mischief. SMS is very much alive and will continue to milk the bohras for who knows how many decades, unless the bohras wake up.

As far as SKQ is concerned, if he had been in SMS' position, he would've been throwing lanaats around too. If he is decent, then he should live like Ali. Give up the claim to the throne and prevent the division of families. Will he?
Having a good teacher is no guarantee of getting " true hidayat"

Noha was good teacher but his son was against dawat and finally died in flood.

Mosses got lessons under firon, but mosses learn good things and he became prophet.

Hazrat ayyub(s) gave lessons to all his son all his life but every thing was futile untill ayyub(s) died. even today tribe of israel is doing fitnah in world.

there are numerous such examples. HIDAYAT comes from ALLAH and none else. , Having a good teacher is no guarantee of any thing.

so dont try to imposed your wahabi concepts which even you dont understand.
Last edited by M Taha on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
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Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#73

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:11 pm

Having a good teacher is no gaurantee of getting " true hidayat"
Yeah, go teach that to your non-Wahhabi brethren.

The problem with people like yourself is that you always try to fit a round peg in a square hole. The reason the community is in a mess is because people have been giving and believing in the wrong analogies. Even after I predicted what you were going to say, you came out and said it exactly as I had predicted.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#74

Unread post by M Taha » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:17 pm

anajmi wrote:
Having a good teacher is no gaurantee of getting " true hidayat"
Yeah, go teach that to your non-Wahhabi brethren.

The problem with people like yourself is that you always try to fit a round peg in a square hole. The reason the community is in a mess is because people have been giving and believing in the wrong analogies. Even after I predicted what you were going to say, you came out and said it exactly as I had predicted.

I think this is high time for you to really "MOVE ON"

you are advising sister to move on, while you are still stuck with bohras from years, you have already chose path for your self, and I think there is no reason for you to still hang around.

well being a muslim it is obvious we will take lessons and examples from QURAAN, so there is no big deal if u think u predicted my answer.

I personally never had any problem with bohra theology, but yes corruption in community was my biggest concern, now when I realize it wasnt from the leader, but it was from few hijackers, I would definately reconsider my mistake and belive in truth.
Last edited by M Taha on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spectator
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:08 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#75

Unread post by Spectator » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:19 pm

Anajmi bhai I do not agree that we are of the same opinion. Yes we are neither followers of SKQ nor SMS but I do not agree to your anti Shia/anti bohra sentiments. I would feel the same if someone was bashing Christians, Hindus or other faiths. I presume you were bohra once? Then you saw all the ills of bohraism and saw your salvation in
in sunnism? I am glad you found your calling. But I am sure you also see some of the ills in the Sunni community just as you did with the bohra community? Perhaps I am just not a very religious person. For me live and let live definitely works. I do not need to take the "next step" as I feel I have already taken it. I wish you all the best but I would request that we let this be the last on the issue. I do not want this turning into a Sunni Shia bohra debate. Thank you.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#76

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:30 pm

Dear Sister Spectator,

Obviously, you are not content with where you are right now. There is a reason why you are here on this forum. When you figure that out, let me know. I will still be here. And do not be allergic to a Sunni Shia Bohra debate. People should not be afraid, least of all on an anonymous forum. Speak your mind. That is probably why you are here in the first place.

Normally, people try to avoid discussions where their shortcomings might be exposed. But we are on an anonymous forum. One needs to know what is wrong with oneself before one can become better.




























By the way that was some good psycho babble from me. Normally I am much worse as you, no doubt, already know.

Spectator
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:08 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#77

Unread post by Spectator » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:57 pm

Anajmi bhai I reiterate that I am fine with my beliefs. Please do not trouble yourself on my behalf. I asked a question to which I received no reply. Do you not see any ills in the Sunni or Wahhabi communities? If your answer is no then good for you. If you were really content with where you are what are you doing on this forum too? I started reading the posts on this forum just to see what kothar is upto ......like the 53000 coconuts(!) and to learn some facts that we were not taught in madressa BUT definately not for sectarian debates. Anyways br please let us end this discussion. I do not want this subject matter to get hijacked.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#78

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:13 pm

Do you not see any ills in the Sunni or Wahhabi communities?
Of course there are ills in the Sunni and the Wahhabi communities. I am not content with what I am doing. To tell you the truth, I have learned more about Islam and Quran after joining this forum. Some one would quote an ayah out of context and then I would go and do research. It helped me a lot. I had no clue what Daimul Islam was or what it taught before I joined this forum. I have a lot more to learn. This forum has a lot more to offer. I won't be content with what I have till the day I die. I was a shaky bohra before I joined, but am a firm muslim now. And I am nowhere near complete. But at least, I am not in the web of deceit spun by the bohra mafia clergy. The problem with some of us over here is that as soon as we hear a different point of view, we want to label it as Wahhabi or Sunni or Barelvi etc etc, without even trying to understand it.

People would say Imamat is in the Quran and then I would go look for it. Still looking by the way. But then it helped me understand the Quran. Better than some Arabic speaking folks I might add!! But then, my goal was to understand the Quran and Islam. I am not content with "live and let live".

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#79

Unread post by voice » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:53 pm

anajmi wrote:Dear Sister Spectator,
....................... SMS and SKQ are two sides of the same coin. Neither of them can live like Ali and neither of them will die like Hussain.
I read d whole discussion above between anajmi and Spectator, I feel its great to have people like such thinking in these forum. Regarding the above quote on SMS & SKQ, I also use to feel the same but communicating with SKQ camp made me realized that they are different. They are determine for change in ritualistic, ignorant, blind following of Islam. But at present they are having limitations too. They have to fight a battle in which they need time, patience to implement reforms else opponents will more easily label them as Sunnis / Wahabis. Already when fear and social factor are not allowing people to support them than how easily people will be distracted with such labels on them.

They are in fact inviting us to join an awaited revolution. In fact we all need a central leadership who can reform the community on mass scale. If SKQ is agreeing, showing his inclination, determination for same than the responsibility is now on all of us to assist them in this revolution.

I personally feel that in every sect of Islam there are good points and bad too. Shaitan highlight`s the bad in eyes of other sects regarding a particular sect and good of it is overlooked. Islam teaches us to see good in others and ignore the bad points. So when shaitan succeeds then sectarian rift increases more and more, bad points are highlighted. Lets respect all sects, see good in everyone and try to improve bad of ours. InshaAllah sectarian issues can be resolved with the simple implementation of this teaching of Islam.

In my (Bohra) sect I feel that now no good is left, its far away from true Islam, money and worldly gains are only priority except that a revolution is needed to overthrow this corrupt system. If SKQ is willing for same than its our duty to support him with the sole intention of "fi-sabeelillah".

anajmi
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Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#80

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:45 am

The problem with people like yourself is that you always try to fit a round peg in a square hole. The reason the community is in a mess is because people have been giving and believing in the wrong analogies. Even after I predicted what you were going to say, you came out and said it exactly as I had predicted.
Make that a square peg in a round hole. :wink:

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#81

Unread post by juzerali » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:09 am

Did anyone mentioned teacher?

The Real Teacher 
 
You have sought teachers to show you the way, and you have been lead astray‐ have 
you not?  You have been sold new concepts and fantastic ideas about enlightenment.  
These teachers have told you of amazing experiences and transformations.  You 
have learned many new ideas, however, you still feel as if something is missing.  You 
have been left to ask, “When is it going to happen for me?” 
 
Please see that self‐proclaimed, or self‐implied teachers, gurus and enlightened 
people are just people, like you.  They have a false sense of themselves just as you 
have.  But for some reason, you have mistakenly given yourself to them by way of 
worship and admiration.  You know this mistake, but you do not want to see it 
because you have hope that one‐day you can be like the teacher.  
 
This is not to say that there are not people who have broken through to something 
beyond this life, but they would not be obvious to you, because you want something 
else.  You want what the aspiring spiritual teacher has‐ an outward looking 
appearance of spirituality and personal freedom.  And that is exactly the kind of 
teacher or “way” you have found, over and over again.  But each has left you 
searching for more. 
 
How many ways and techniques will you seek before you see that they are all just 
games and performances?  When will you see that your search for the true “way” is 
really just another search for your “way?”   
 
When will you let Truth become your real teacher?   
 
Don’t you see that you are captive to your spiritual wanting?  You want to be 
spiritual, you want to be enlightened, and so you fall for anyone who says they have 
attained these things.  And you do so without the slightest bit of investigation.  Your 
trust of a teacher is directly proportionate to the similarity of what they believe to 
what you already believe.  Do you see the futility in such an endeavor? 
 
Deep inside there is a signal from Truth that says something is wrong with the 
teacher, but you ignore it, because to abandon the teacher or teaching, would be to 
abandon the only hope you have to succeed in your spiritual quest.  You hold false 
hope that someone will show you the way.  
 
To hold another human being in high regard for any purpose is unnecessary.   A real 
teacher would not put up with this falseness.  The real teacher would know that 
beyond the shell of the human condition, there is nothing to compare and thus 
empty worship is simply a result of more selfish wanting on the part of the student. 
 
Here is another interesting fact.  All of the necessary lessons in the cosmic universe 
have already been taught, and you have immediate access to them.  In fact, where Truth is concerned, all lessons are really one lesson.  This lesson is infinite, and the 
lesson is Truth.  All of your concerns about it are irrelevant in light of this one Truth. 
 
You are asking at this very moment, “What is that one Truth?”  In doing this you 
continue to err.  It is not a lesson of words, or circumstances, or of life‐as you‐know‐
it.  Truth is all around you, right now.  Your only work is to remove the clutter that 
shields you from knowing it.  Instead you want to know it as you know other things, 
in a way that benefits you. 
 
You are standing in a garden of rich bounty and looking yonder for your food.  Even 
crying at times how unfair it is that you should starve!  Look around you right 
now—there you will see the teacher, there is your food.  The reason you cannot see 
it is that you want food that you are familiar with and so you are blind to the True 
but unfamiliar food that has been graciously put in front of you. 
 
Ignore the rituals, the stages, and signs of enlightenment that you have been taught.  
These are all simply tricks of the mind.  These tricks have been created as ways to 
materialize Truth, which cannot be materialized.  Human ways cannot transcend the 
eternal; the eternal must be seen by a nature that transcends the human. 
 
This is not to say that one should deny humanness—that would be impossible 
anyway.  Your humanness is real and there is much to be said for enjoying it.  You 
have taken unnecessary ownership of it, however, and in doing so you have brought 
trouble to your mind.  
 
Let go of your teacher; then, and only then, will you truly learn from that teacher.  
While seeing another in an elevated position, you have placed judgment in the way 
of learning.   You may learn a great deal about your own falseness by simply 
observing the teacher and your subsequent reactions.   When this happens, the 
teacher truly becomes a teacher, unbeknownst to him or her.   When you see this 
truth you will also understand that there is in fact no teaching, but only learning.   
 
Live life with a watchful mind, beyond false notions.  Do not yield your self to 
another for the sake of progress.  See all others and everything else before you as 
your teachers.  Examine, but do not search—for there is nothing to find that is not 
already before you. 
 
© 2010 Trueself.org
http://trueself.org

juzerali
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#82

Unread post by juzerali » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:10 am

This was really the highlight
To hold another human being in high regard for any purpose is unnecessary. A real
teacher would not put up with this falseness. The real teacher would know that
beyond the shell of the human condition, there is nothing to compare and thus
empty worship is simply a result of more selfish wanting on the part of the student.

Fatema MN
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#83

Unread post by Fatema MN » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:15 pm

Fatema MN wrote:Maxthe(im)mature bhai...let me get this right. You said...

"Let me tell u all in our zyafat in surat burhanuddin aqa mentioned bhai muffadal ni bhi zyafat aapjo! 53rd ma dai che ehna kadam ma barakat che and we all got close to mola and his wordings were crystal clear mola repeated thrice!dr moiz bsb was stopped by mola and mola himself said and we had to come quite close to hear it!"

1) Exactly when was this zyafat held?
2) You have been posting on this forum for quite some time now, how come you withheld such an important piece of data? If I was you, this would be my very first post.
3) So if what you say is true, then this was another instance of 'nass', assuming that this zyafat happened before Aqa Burhanuddin Moula's (RA) stroke.
4) If his words were crystal clear, why did he repeat the same thing thrice???
5) Why is your family's story missing from the 'nass nama' document (assuming the event happened before London episode).
6) Why didn't you and your family record your statement and upload it with all the other videos on the believeinsyednaqutbuddin site? A hindu gives testimony of the nass based on his dream and that is shown to the whole world, but a mumin family who claim to have heard Burhanuddin Aqa's own words as stated above, does not step forward to record/relay their story??
7) Assuming this event happened before the stroke, do you really expect us to believe that Burhanuddin moula (RA) would choose your family to reveal his 'amal saleh' (most important amal) !!!????
8] Assuming this event happened after the stroke, do you really expect us to believe that you and your family could understand clearly what Burhanuddin Moula (RA) was saying??? Since the day of Moula's stroke, I and thousands of mumineen have done so much matam and shed so many tears in the hope and prayer that moula will clearly utter the words 'ya husain' and here you are claiming to understand full sentences supposedly spoken by him!!!!

May Allah forgive your immaturity!
Max bhai, where have you disappeared? No answers to my questions yet! Can I safely assume that your little story about your Zyafat was nothing but a figment of your imagination?

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#84

Unread post by james » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:34 pm

Qutbi-Hero wrote:
james wrote:You call Khuzaima " knowledgeable " . His knowledge dictated him to offer sajda shukr to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA , take zyafats and najwa from mumineen . If you hold his knowledge in high esteem , you have give due respect to the actions borne out of the knowledge he acquired which you don't . I can see through your hypocrisy very well .
Dude, you seem like a smart guy... actually, you're definitely a smart guy, as I've seen you merrily slaughter Anajmi every chance you get lol - more power to ya Bro!
(Now I know why SBM thinks you are me lol! :mrgreen:)

Unfortunately though, you're clearly a Muffy Maniac... which is a crying shame dude - why not better yourself and become a Qutbi Hero like me!

Please do explain why you think the character and conduct of the Mad Muffy Mob... is in any way superior to the Cool Qutbi Crew?
I'm genuinely curious why a man of high intelligence and ample Shia knowledge... would think Muffy has/will make a better Dai than Khuzzy?
What positive qualities do you see in the Mad Muffy Mob, that I obviously don't?
Qutbi-Hero

Don't you find it odd that not one , not even one Hudood Kiram of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA has sided with Khuzaima ? The naysayers are accusing the sons of 52th Dai RA to have vested interests in the appointment of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS . What about the sons of the 51st Dai ? If it is all about the wealth and power like some people are claiming to be , wouldn't they be better off with their own brother at the helm ? Why would they offer allegiance and bow towards their brother's son ( A Younger Generation ) ? Surely , there would be more security and power for them in supporting Khuzaima from a worldly view .

And also , if everyone has colluded in a grand conspiracy against Khuzaima by producing forged signature of the 52th Dai RA ( Nozubillah ) , they surely could have made Mukasir Saheb DM , other Hudood ( Sons of 51st Dai RA ) as the witnesses to the private nass by 52nd Dai RA . They could have forged signatures and announced multiple occasions on which 52nd Dai RA did nass in private in front of various Hudood. Hell , they could have even made Khuzaima as one of the witnesses to the nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS if they wanted to . That would have been the Sucker Punch !

Khuzaima's evidence of nass is allegedly one incident from 50 years ago without any witnesses . It is just his word against the word of all the Hudood Kiram DM of 52nd Dai RA and lastly , I heard the two statements in the Raudat Tahera nass video quite clearly .

Ps : Thank you for your kind words in your first paragraph .

Sceptical
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#85

Unread post by Sceptical » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:40 pm

Answer :
Yusuf Najmuddin --> Badral Jamali --> Mufaddal's wife.
Maybe Qutbuddin is not as influenceable as Mufaddal.

Qutbuddin's words against Shehzadas = he was mazoon-e-mutlaq.
Dawood bin Qutubshah RA was mazoon of Syedna Ajabshah RA, that's why most of bohra followed him, including our ancestors. Instead of Sulaiman who had even a letter from Syedna Ajabshah to prove his claim.

M Taha
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#86

Unread post by M Taha » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:49 pm

hey james,

please verify from dawat books,

who is more in rutbaa and person to be trusted?

Mazoon sahab or hudood?

hudood can be brought by money or black mailed for X reasons.

MAZOON is defacto DAI if no one has any proof of nass.

even common sense accepts this.

james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#87

Unread post by james » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:55 pm

Sceptical wrote:Answer :

Qutbuddin's words against Shehzadas = he was mazoon-e-mutlaq.
Dawood bin Qutubshah RA was mazoon of Syedna Ajabshah RA, that's why most of bohra followed him, including our ancestors. Instead of Sulaiman who had even a letter from Syedna Ajabshah to prove his claim.
Come to think of it , if one looks closely there are parallels between Khuzaima and Suleman . Suleman did Iqrar of Nass for 3 years and then he claimed Daiship for himself . Close to 3 years for Khuzaima as well . :wink:

Sceptical
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#88

Unread post by Sceptical » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:01 pm

james wrote: Come to think of it , if one looks closely there are parallels between Khuzaima and Suleman . Suleman did Iqrar of Nass for 3 years and then he claimed Daiship for himself . Close to 3 years for Khuzaima as well . :wink:
Sulaiman did Iqrar 4 years AFTER Syedna Dawood Qutbshah RA had officially taken over his fonction of Dai.
Let me this parallels, beacause according Mazoon, Nass upon him was already done 49 years ago :
  • Letter of Sulaiman = video of Raudat Tahera, London Hospital drama, Hindu Zaveri dream, ...
Just a matter of POV, Bhai.

SBM
Posts: 6228
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#89

Unread post by SBM » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:29 pm

James
Is not odd that SMB while alive never questioned Mazoon and being a Ghaiab Na Jankar did not know the evil side of SKQ?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Logical Reasons for not beleiving Shezada Mufaddal Saifu

#90

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:41 pm

There should be another thread titled "Logical Reasons For Not Believing in Hidden Imam being in Regular Touch With Dai" because the manner in which the entire Nass drama was played has raised serious doubts in the minds of average Bohras ! The 51st Dai confers Nass upon 52nd some 25 years prior to his death and now both the warring groups claim that Nass was conferred on them 30, 40 or 49 years back. Now how on earth can an Imam who is suppose to be from the progeny of Mola Ali (a.s.) make such factual errors and leave his followers in a lurch ? Why would he appoint his next vicegerent way before the current one dies ? Although more importantly , can an Imam of such impeccable qualities ever be in touch with the ones who are 24x7 violating almost all the tenets of Islam and have turned Islam into a money making business ? Can he be in touch with the ones who have made slaves of their followers who have to obey their every command without questioning ?

Needless to say that abdes will now start comparing this drama with Prophet (s.a.w.) and Mola Ali (a.s) in order to defend their masters although there are 2 sides of that story which are far more logical if viewed with an unbiased mind compared to the Nass which in all probability seems to be a case of grabbing power as it comes with billions of dollars stashed in the dungeons of Saifee Mahal.