Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Muslim First
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#121

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:38 pm

Agitation: It was lady Aaisha who came on Camel to fight against Mola Ali Ameer-al-mumeneen in the war of Jamal, later she came on ‘khachhar’ on the death ceremony of Imam Hasan (A.S.) and sitting on ‘khacchar’ she fired arrows on the dead body of Imam Hasan. A lover of progeny of Molatina Fatima (A.S.) told Aaisha that if you live more than you agitate against Imam Hussain (A.S.) on an elephant!
War of Jamal OK but where did you get this story of Aisha RA on Khachhar?
A lover of progeny of Molatina Fatima (A.S.) told Aaisha that if you live more than you agitate against Imam Hussain (A.S.) on an elephant!
Can you explin this? Does not make any sense.

Aftab
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#122

Unread post by Aftab » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:51 am

It is difficult to remain within and also fight the system. However he wanted to remain in and I guess for the right reasons, Sheikh Ahmedali was forced out. Two of his colleague also got killed in the process. This might be an extreme case, but the very fact that one has to take mishaq and pay wagibat makes it difficult to remain within. Al Zulficar remained in as well as avoided payment. He also influenced others in disobedience and all the power to him.

Hussain_KSA
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#123

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:43 am

Originally posted by porus:
That Sayedna Abdali had ruled against breast beating for Husain is great news. If confirmed that it is authentic Fatimid tradition, then Bohras can be spared this ugly demonstration every day. Which book of the late Sayedna are you quoting from?
Brother porus,

It is being qouted from one of the Risael (letters) of Syedna Abde Ali Saifuddin which he wrote to Amils that time. I has been mentioned on this forum earliar by Mr. Saifuddin Insaf. He might have copy of that letter.

However, I am not agree with you that Bohras can be spared this ugly demonstration every day as the Young Generation of Dawoodi Bohras only know 51 & 52 while the older generation has proved tradition of blind following. Matam has now become a compulsory part of daily prayers too.

Hussain_KSA
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#124

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:10 am

Originally posted by Mubarak:
Mubarak Inputs:
Molana, Sayyedina, Aaka Abde Ali Saifuudin sahib was 43rd Dai, sorry for the typing error. Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) said that should you be addressing any religious head irrespective of he belonging to any religion (Yahood/Nasara/anyone) you must address him with dignity and respect. In my personal opinion as a matter of etiquettes should anyone be a Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Mustali Shia then he/she must name Dawat-a-haq Molana Abde-a-Ali aaka with respected titles along with his name.
Brother Mubarak,

Thanks for the clarification on Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj Saheb's mafinama. Where did it mention that "Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) said that should you be addressing any religious head irrespective of he belonging to any religion (Yahood/Nasara/anyone) you must address him with dignity and respect." I have gone through the books but I could find it. Could you kindly qoute the source just for my knowledge. I apprecite your personal openion but I personally would not like to call any one Aaqa or maula except Allah (SWT). My due respect for Syedena Abdeali Saifuddin but I was just wondering the title you are attaching to Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj Saheb.
Matam of Imam Hussain has no relation with Shariate Mohammadi as the incident took place after the death of Prophet Mohammed (SWT).

I think you should use term of Shariat Ismaili, Muastali, Tayyabi, Taheri or Burhani instead of Shariate Mohammadi. Wouldn't it be better if you could scan and put the entire book "sansanikhez haqaiqe". on this board with the permission of administrator.

Muslim First
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#125

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:51 am

Moosa (A.S.) served to Firoun dedicatedly for decades, preaching among his ‘Kipti’ students that Firoun is the true God on Earth. Among his trusted students ‘Sipti’, Moosa taught them the right things that there is no God than Allah. Allah is one. And Firoun is not God. There was a debate between Kipti and Sipti, they went to Moosa and Moosa favored Sipti student. Matter went to Firoun and warrant issued to arrest Moosa. Aasia, the wife of Firoun was a muminaa bai, she informed Moosa about it and Moosa went in hiding. Later, equipped with Allah’s gift of stick Moosa in the court of Firoun did debated and defeated Firoun and his sorceress.
Br. Mubarak

Fantastic tale. How come it was not included in film '10 Commandments'?

Hussain_KSA
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#126

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Br. Mubarak

Fantastic tale. How come it was not included in film '10 Commandments'?
Be patient sir. It might be included in second part of the film. ;)

Aftab
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#127

Unread post by Aftab » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:59 pm

[Moosa (A.S.) served to Firoun dedicatedly for decades, preaching among his ‘Kipti’ students that Firoun is the true God on Earth. Among his trusted students ‘Sipti’, Moosa taught them the right things that there is no God than Allah. Allah is one. And Firoun is not God. There was a debate between Kipti and Sipti, they went to Moosa and Moosa favored Sipti student. Matter went to Firoun and warrant issued to arrest Moosa. Aasia, the wife of Firoun was a muminaa bai, she informed Moosa about it and Moosa went in hiding. Later, equipped with Allah’s gift of stick Moosa in the court of Firoun did debated and defeated Firoun and his sorceress.]

It is interesting to note that once Moses declared his intentions, he preferred to go in to hiding rather than submit an apology to Firoun. You can however justify any thing and every thing, but does it make it right?

Mubarak
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#128

Unread post by Mubarak » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:13 pm

Originally posted by Hussain_KSA:
Originally posted by Mubarak:
.

As you write that Mr. Engineer and Mr. Insaaf are not claiming any religious sanctity. If we assume your claim to be right then it implies that duo is not qualified to comment on the matter of religion. Isn’t? If the duo is advocating ONLY agenda of fairness and accountability then we all are with the duo. If the duo toe anything against the faith and rules and regulations (i.e. Shariyat) of Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Mustali Shia then we will fight tooth and nail.

.
Do you agree that recent innovations and practices in dawoodi bohra sect is according to Sahriyat of Imailiya mustali shia jurisprudence? The reform movement is not against shariate muhammadi but apposing the misuse of office of dai and unaccountabilty and other mal practices. The titles you are attaching with shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj is similar to what abde syedna do with their demi god.[/QB]
Salam alekum wa rehmatullah wa barkatahu

Dear respected brother Hussain_KSA,

Thanks for your query about me. I sincerely believe that whosoever is a Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Mustali Shia must have their loyalty to Shariyat (rules and regulations) as ordered by Prophet Mohammed (a.s.), his true successor Mola Ali (a.s.), from the first Imam Molana Hasan (a.s.) till the 100th Imam Molana Quaim (a.s.) and to whomsoever they appoint. Thus any innovation in the society should it not be against the Shariyat then it is tolerable and should it be against the Shariyat then Mumeen and Mumeenat must not only reject but also rectify those innovations.

Single rule of success is - strictly follow rules. But you must learn what the right rules are. – Nicolas Darwas

Sura Fateha (Sura Alhamd) is the summary of the whole Quran.
“Ahdinas siratal mustakema, Siratal lazeena…”
What is this request - asking Allah to make our feet firm on the straight path?
One meaning is: Allah grants us strongest will power to abide by rules and regulations which when we follow will please Allah.

In my personal opinion - I have great respect for Sheikh Ahmed Ali sahib thus to express my love and respect it comes naturally and not artificially to associate him with those titles which he does deserve.

Mubarak
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#129

Unread post by Mubarak » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:54 pm

Originally posted by Fatwa Banker:
Originally posted by Mubarak:
As you write that Mr. Engineer and Mr. Insaaf are not claiming any religious sanctity. If we assume your claim to be right then it implies that duo is not qualified to comment on the matter of religion. Isn’t?

As you say Dr. Mr. Engineer and Mr. Insaaf do not bear any religious sanctity thus the right Shariyat cannot be learnt from them. Then who will teach the right Shariyat?
Your view of who one can learn from is overly simplistic and hence the problem at hand with the Bohra community. Is merely "claiming" religious sanctity good enough for you ? Is it an accurate assumption then that you will only learn religion from those who claim authority or are appointed to do so ?
Is merely "claiming" religious sanctity good enough for you ?
No.

Is it an accurate assumption then that you will only learn religion from those who claim authority or are appointed to do so?
Yes & no.

Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) parallel joined two index fingers of his two hands and said, “me tumhare darmiyan do nafees cheeze chod ke ja raha hoon – eik quran aur doosri meri itrat. Tum in dono so walge rehna. Yeh dono hamesha eik doosre ke saath rahenge aur quayamat ke roz hoz-a-kausar per muz se aa milenge.”
“I’m departing from this world by gifting two things to you: one is Quran and other is my progeny (Molatina Fatima (a.s.) progeny). Compulsorily keep in association with both. The duo won’t separate from one other. And on the day of judgement will together meet me.”

Yes:
If the claimant of authority is from the unbroken chain of Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) then his true successor Mola Ali (a.s.) then 1st Imam Molan Hasan (a.s.) through 21st Imam Molana Tayyeb (a.s.) till 100th Imam Molan Quaim (a.s.) and their appointed Dawat-a-haq i.e. 1st till 46th Dawat-a-haq Molana Sayyedna Mohammed Badruddin (r.a.) sahib. These all are the Itrat or the true progeny of Molatina Fatima (a.s.) and their appointees.

No:
Whosoever is not from the Itrat (progeny of Molatina Fatima (a.s.)) or their appointee.

accountability
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#130

Unread post by accountability » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:13 am

can you please give refrences for your above post. You are writing without refrences. 100th imam ? where did you get this.

Mubarak
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#131

Unread post by Mubarak » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:40 am

Originally posted by accountability:
can you please give refrences for your above post. You are writing without refrences. 100th imam ? where did you get this.
"Daimul Islam" by Molana Kazi Noman

porus
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#132

Unread post by porus » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:27 am

Originally posted by Mubarak:
Originally posted by accountability:
can you please give refrences for your above post. You are writing without refrences. 100th imam ? where did you get this.
"Daimul Islam" by Molana Kazi Noman
This is very fanciful. The Daaim was written at the time when the Fatimi Imams probably expected continue ruling for ever and the office of Dai ul Mutlaq was not even a glimmer in their eyes.

The idea of Qaimul Qiyama was initially advanced by Hamiduddin Kirmani and dates after Daimul Islam. Qaimul Qiyama is not 100th Imam but, as part of Ismaili cycle of seven, his number would have to be some multiple of 7.

accountability
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#133

Unread post by accountability » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:18 pm

thankyou porous. as always the only learned bohra about bohra history.

porus
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#134

Unread post by porus » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:04 pm

To clarify, the term qaimul qiyama was initially applied to Muhammad al-Mastur, the first hidden Imam. The idea was that Muhammad al-Mastur would re-appear at the end of time.

However, instead, al-Mahdi appeared claiming to be the descendant of Muhammad al-Mastur and the idea of qaimul qiyama was modified by Kirmani and others in their elaboration of Ismaili Taawil.

The present Bohra belief retains the idea of the cycle of 7 and the qaimul qiyama would be some multiple of 7. Clearly not 21.

Muslim First
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#135

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:11 pm

Ismaili Taawil
Yes Br. Porus

Taawil ex[lains everything.

Muslim First
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#136

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:24 pm

Qiyam

Here is Ismaili Brothers prediction


http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=2720

What is the significance of the land of suncontinent. All the avatar before hazrat Ali (a.s) are either born in subcontinent or came to subcontinent. we also believe that the last avatar will also come in subcontinent for the restablishment of truth (our imam as Qaim). Why the land of subcontinent has tremendious value.

porus
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#137

Unread post by porus » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:40 pm

I should really use the word 'Tayyibi' or 'Bohra' Taawil. Tha is because the Taawil of Bohras and current Ismailies have diverged somewhat since sectarian split at the time of Imam Mustaali.

Mubarak
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#138

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:20 pm

Originally posted by porus:
In the name of Allah. The Compassionate, the Merciful.

“Rabbish rahli sadri wa yas sirli amri wah lul uk datam mil lisani yaf kahu kauli wa salle ala Mohammadin wa ale Mohammad”
- Moosa (a.s.) ki dua in Quran

A Allah is kaam ke liye mere seene ko khol de, aur mere kaam ko aasan kar de aur meri jaban ki girha ko khol de taki yeh log meri baat ko samaj sake. Aur Nabi Mohammad wa unki aal per salwat.
This dua is from Sura Taha (20:25-28).
The ,proper transliteration is as follows:

qala rabbi ishraH li Sadri
wa yassir li amri
wa aHlul Uqdatan min lisaani(spoken: waHlul Uqdatm mil lisaani)
yafqahu qawli

The final "wa salle ala Mohammadin wa ale Mohammad" does not appear in the Sura. Please be careful when you quote Quran and render the transliteration more accurately.

That Sayedna Abdali had ruled against breast beating for Husain is great news. If confirmed that it is authentic Fatimid tradition, then Bohras can be spared this ugly demonstration every day. Which book of the late Sayedna are you quoting from?
Dear brother Mr. Porus,

Thank you for better transliteration.

Convention in Fatimi Dawat is: we club ‘Dua’ with ‘salwat’ on Prophet Mohammed (a.s.). Allah will surely accept the request for ‘salwat’ on Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) and along with it our prayers as they are clubbed together.

Danish
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#139

Unread post by Danish » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:39 pm

Originally posted by Mubarak:
Convention in Fatimi Dawat is: we club ‘Dua’ with ‘salwat’ on Prophet Mohammed (a.s.). Allah will surely accept the request for ‘salwat’ on Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) and along with it our prayers as they are clubbed together.
What's the purpose of consistently and relentlessly regurgitating/parroting 'duas' & 'salaats' on human beings and the dead (especially the ones whom one has never known) and adding A.S., TUS, SAW, etc. after their names? Is your 'Allah' deaf, forgetful, unknowing or evanescence?

Mubarak
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#140

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:05 pm

Originally posted by accountability:
Yazeed ibn Mawiya the killer of Imam Hussain (a.s.) too was a renowned personality, indeed he was king of more than half of the world. (FYI: Imam Temmai is the inspirational guru of Dr. Mr. Asghar Ali Engineer, and this Imam Temmai says that “Lanat us per jo Yazeed per lanat padhe”). Abu Baqr (lanat) & Omar (lanat) (1st & 2nd Caliph) - the killer of Molana Mohsin s/o Ali ibn Abi Talib and Molatina Fatima (a.s.) too were and indeed are very renowned personalities. But, does being a renowned personality make anyone right?
Mubarak saheb: this is the rhetoric that I despise so much. Cursing and name calling, using so called historical refrences to drive your point of view, rather forcing it on others. It is in the same line with the present bohra administration. you have mixed history and twisted analogies therin to fit your whim. Shiekh saheb is a respected aalim, let him be so.

Now replying to your other point, Then imam hussain should not have stood fast, and waited till the time was ripe, Rasulilah SAW should not have declared islam, rather waited for oppurtune time, Jesus should not have been crucified, but waited till the time comes. I see waiting for oppurtune time as cowardice, and honest and steadfast humane being will always stand tall against all odds for truth and jsutice.
Dear respected brother Mr. Accountability,

Allah subanhu has sent ‘lanat’ on several occasions in Quran. Example: Allah says ‘lanat’ in Quran on people associated with consumption of alcohol, on liars (Abu Baker, the 1st Caliph was a liar as he denied the verdict of ‘Gadeer-a-khum’), etc. Thus sending ‘lanat’ on appropriate people is part of Shariyat. Allah practice what he think is right and appropriate and Allah does sends ‘lanat’ then dear respected brother Mr. Accountability why shall we the obedient of Allah may not send ‘lanat’ on those on whom Allah has sent ‘lanat’?

When you say that you see “waiting for opportune time as cowardice”, you are expressing your personal opinion.

The single most powerful man of his time who can single headedly defeats the whole world together, the bravest of all: Molana Imam Hussain (a.s.) did waited till the appropriate time. The war was supposed to be broken on 9th Moharram. But Imam Hussain wanted to appropriately time it on 10th Moharram thus to coincide his martyrdom on 10th Moharram – the historic day on which 10 very important events took place in history like Prophet Nooh (a.s.) ark was anchored, etc. And also Imam Hussain was seeking further opportunity to pass one more night in the prayers to Almighty Allah.

Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) did waited for the right time to declare Dawat of Islam to commoners. For years Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) worked to prove commoners his character. When people started calling Mohammed (a.s.) as “Sadik-ul-Ameen” i.e. when people have acknowledged that Mohammed (a.s.) is a truthful man then at that appropriate opportunity Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) called the “Dawat-a-zul-asheera” for inviting his family member Dawat of Islam.

Brother accountability, sorry to write but I know almost nothing about Prophet Christ (a.s.).

One last thing on appropriate time/opportunity - Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) told his aide Hazrat Jabir bin Abdullah, “Jabir you will live very long. Pass my message to Imam Mohammed Bakir that O’ Bakir Salam on you from your grandfather Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) and your grandfather says that the appropriate time has came to unveil right knowledge.

Har kaam ka waqt hota hai aur har waqt ke liye kaam!
Thus, actions are not taken in haste but executed at appropriate time when the opportunity is optimum.

Danish
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#141

Unread post by Danish » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:11 am

Mubarak, can you (or anyone) answer or rebuttal my concerns in my previous post. Thank you.

Also, we often hear that Muslims/Bohries curse others with their narcissist slogan: "khuda ni(ki) laanat". What does that exactly mean? Can 'Allah/Khuda' give laanats to his own creation?

Mubarak
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#142

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:07 am

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Agitation: It was lady Aaisha who came on Camel to fight against Mola Ali Ameer-al-mumeneen in the war of Jamal, later she came on ‘khachhar’ on the death ceremony of Imam Hasan (A.S.) and sitting on ‘khacchar’ she fired arrows on the dead body of Imam Hasan. A lover of progeny of Molatina Fatima (A.S.) told Aaisha that if you live more than you agitate against Imam Hussain (A.S.) on an elephant!
War of Jamal OK but where did you get this story of Aisha RA on Khachhar?

A lover of progeny of Molatina Fatima (A.S.) told Aaisha that if you live more than you agitate against Imam Hussain (A.S.) on an elephant!
Can you explin this? Does not make any sense.
In history there are two Prophets whose wives went against their successors – one was Safoora, the wife of Prophet Moosa (a.s.) and another was Aaisha, the wife of Prophet Mohammed (a.s.). [FYI: Safoora means yellow and Aaisha means red.]

Aaisha approach was materialistic than spiritualistic that is why she came to fight with Mola Ali (a.s.). She rode on a camel. Unlike common men the wife of Prophet remains in the wedding of Prophet even after the death of Prophet that is why the widows of Prophet cannot marry after the death of Prophet. Those widows divorce power remains in the hand of Prophet’s successor. Mola Ali (a.s.) told Aaisha that Religious War (jihad) are only for Males and not Females, you return back otherwise I will give you divorce on Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) behalf. After listening that Aaisha realised that if she fought with Ali (a.s.) and Ali (a.s.) gave her divorce on behalf of Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) then she will be deprived of all the titles she enjoyed being Prophet wife. In that divorce fear she ran away from the battleground.

Aaisha came to fight with Mola Ali (a.s.) i.e. she expressed enmity with Mola Ali (a.s.). We are on the side of Mola Ali (a.s.), we love Mola Ali (a.s.) and we will fight for Mola Ali (a.s.) against any enemy who come fighting with our Mola Ali (a.s.). In this case Aaisha came to fight with Mola Ali.

Whom will we fight for and whom will we fight against? We the Dawoodi Bohras Ismailiya Shia’s will fight for Mola Ali (a.s.) and will fight against the Mola Ali (a.s.) enemy = Aaisha (lanat). We pray for those who support Ali (a.s.) and send Lanat on those who support enemy of Ali (a.s.). Janab Abbas Ali Alvi in one of his Moharram morning majlis in Udaipur said that Dr. Mr. Asghar Ali Engineer supports Aaisha (lanat) thus by the above contention we send Lanat on Dr. Mr. Asghar Ali Engineer.

Mawiyah (lanat) martyred Imam Hasan (a.s.) with poison. Mukhtar (lanat) who for materialistic reasons tried to revenge Martyrdom of Imam Hussain (a.s.) along with the great son of Molana Malekul Ashtar (r.a.) too planned to kill Imam Hasan (a.s.) for prize.

When Imam Hasan (a.s.) was martyred then as per the will of Imam Hasan (a.s.) the brother of Imam Hasan (a.s.) tried to burry him near the grave of Prophet Mohammed (a.s.). When Aaisha (lanat) heard that, she rode a ‘khachchar’ and came to fight. She claimed that she will not allow to burry Imam Hasan (a.s.) near the grave of Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) as she wanted to get her buried their after her death. To stop the last ceremony of Molana Hasan (a.s.) she fired arrows sitting on the ‘khachchar’, many arrows pierced in the dead body of Imam Hasan (a.s.)

Laina Aaisha in relation was grandmother (nani) of Imam Hasan (a.s.) instead of sitting in ‘sog’ (condolence) she rode on a ‘khacchar’ to fire arrows on Imam Hasan (a.s.) dead body.

Aaisha (lanat) like Safura (lanat) w/o Prophet Moosa (a.s.) hated true successor of Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) = Ali (a.s.) and progeny of her stepdaughter Molatina Fatima (a.s.). There were no children from Laina Aaisha.

In worldly history as well as in Quran Elephant has always been a cause of embarrassment to the owner. Prithviraj Chohan loosed the battle with Mohammed Ghori because of immobility in his force caused by elephants. Rana Sanga loosed with Babar because the cannon noise disturbed elephant and they run over Rana Sanga’s own soldiers. In the Olympic that were held in India an Elephant named Appu was trained to offer garland and that point was loudly marketed and at the time of performance Appu elephant ashamed and embarrassed India and the then PM Indira Ghandhi by not performing. Hindu considers Elephant God (Ganesh) as the most intelligent!!!!!

Janab Abdullah Yusuf Ali (who was our Bohra Mumin) in his text, translation and commentary named as ‘The Holy Quran’ comments about Surah Feel as follow:
Abrahah Ashram was the Abyssinian governor or viceroy. Intoxicated with power and fired by religious fanaticism, he led a big expedition against Makkah, intending to destry the Kaabah. He had an elephant or elephants in his train. But his sacrilegious intentions were defeated by a miracle. No defence was offered by the custodians of the Kaabah as the army was too strong for them. But a shower of stones, thrown by flocks of birds, destroyed the invading army almost to a man. The stones produced sores and pustules on the skin, which spread like a pestilence.

Aaisha hated his stepdaughter Molatina Fatima (a.s.) and her progeny and when she fired arrows on dead body of Imam Hasan (a.s.) then on seeing that incidence one empathiser of Molana Hasan (a.s.) read a poetry whose meaning is O’ daughter of Abu Baker, you have only 1/12 (twelve wives) right and you are claiming everything. You came fighting with Ali (a.s.) on a camel and now in your hatred of your stepdaughter son Molana Hasan (a.s.) you are riding a ‘khachchar’ and firing arrows on dead body of Imam Hasan (a.s.), should you live long then do fight with Imam Hussain (a.s.) as well and at that time ride on elephant.

Mubarak
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#143

Unread post by Mubarak » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:14 am

Originally posted by Danish:
Mubarak, can you (or anyone) answer or rebuttal my concerns in my previous post. Thank you.

Also, we often hear that Muslims/Bohries curse others with their narcissist slogan: "khuda ni(ki) laanat". What does that exactly mean? Can 'Allah/Khuda' give laanats to his own creation?
Brother Danish,

Before u there are many post unanswered by me thus I will come to u in chronological sequence. Despite me facing time constraints I will try to give u as satisfactory answer as possible by me, Inshallah.

porus
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Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#144

Unread post by porus » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:41 pm

Originally posted by Mubarak:
In history there are two Prophets whose wives went against their successors – one was Safoora, the wife of Prophet Moosa (a.s.) and another was Aaisha, the wife of Prophet Mohammed (a.s.). [FYI: Safoora means yellow and Aaisha means red.]

My understanding is that Safoora was a devoted wife of Musa. Can you elaborate on how she disobeyed Musa in relation to his successor, Harun?

[By the way Aaisha does not mean Red. Prophet called Aaisha by the name Humeira, which means red. That is because she dyed her hair red with henna or because she was beautiful with rosy red cheeks.]

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#145

Unread post by accountability » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:12 pm

Admin: I would strongly suggest to edit Mubarak's posts. He is spreading hatred and bigotry. His cursing and name calling is, and will offend many muslims. His rhetorical approach and his half baked knowledge do not drive any point, rather his use of abusive language against early and notable muslims hurt many a feeling.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#146

Unread post by Danish » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:03 pm

Accountability, I do not find any "abusive language" in Mubarak's posts. One will find them in the "Islam Today" and "Here and Now" sections between a "wahabi" and an "Ismaili".

This forum [QB]MUST[/AB] have at least two "full time" moderators to moderate in moderation. I believe it's getting out-of-control. Mind you, some illeterates take criticims as abusive.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#147

Unread post by accountability » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:23 pm

Danish: I do share your views about religion in general, but dont you think, one must avoid unbecoming language towards other's revered personalities. Criticism does not mean foul language. He has every right to his opinion about isalm and Bohra doctorine. I will respect his right to critcize historical figures, but in historical perspect. Sending lanat can not be termed as constructive criticism.

That is what jamat is doing day in and day out.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#148

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:38 am

Originally posted by accountability:
Admin: I would strongly suggest to edit Mubarak's posts. He is spreading hatred and bigotry. His cursing and name calling is, and will offend many muslims. His rhetorical approach and his half baked knowledge do not drive any point, rather his use of abusive language against early and notable muslims hurt many a feeling.
Muslims means followers. Follow what Allah ask/does. In Quran Allah on several occasions have sent ‘lanat’ on several types of people (example: all people associated with alcohol consumption – drinker, transporter, etc; people speaking lies, interest seekers (money on money), etc) and I am following what Allah does. Is it wrong to follow what Allah does?

Allah is sending ‘lanat’, and so am I. If you say that my sending ‘lanat’ on liars, alcohol consumers is using abusive language, spreading hatred and bigotry then implicitly the charges are on Allah. It implies as per your text that Allah in Quran by sending ‘lanat’ – Allah is using abusive language; Allah is spreading hatred and bigotry. If Allah is right in sending ‘lanat’ then me too following (Muslim) Allah’s practice.

If you express that you are a Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia then it implies that you acknowledge that on 10th Moharram Hijri 10, on the ground of ‘Gadeer-a-khum’ Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) has openly, categorically and doubtlessly announced, “…Mankuto molao fa haza Aliyun mola” = My successor and nominate is Ali (a.s.). (Allah mera mola hai,me mumineen ka mola hoon aur jis-jis ka me mola hoon ab un sabke mola Ali hai.)

That is Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) has declared Mola Ali (a.s.) as his true successor i.e. after him authority is Mola Ali (a.s.). Abu Baker too was present during that announcement and has given the loyalty oath (Misaq) to Mola Ali (a.s.) in presence of Prophet Mohammed (a.s.). When Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) was martyred then Mola Ali (a.s.) was busy in last bath, coffin and burial whereas Abu Baker and his accomplice in place named as Sakifa were plotting to make Prophet Mohammed‘s Gadeer-a-khum announcement as false and occupy Prophet successor seat by himself. Abu Baker falsified Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) order, he lied that there was no such (Gadeer-a-khum) announcement.

If you express that you are a Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia then you have to COMPULSORILY acknowledge the above two paragraph as right. The above two paragraph in principle are our core faith. If you do not acknowledge that above two paragraphs as right then you imply that you are not part of Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia. If you acknowledge that above two paragraphs are right then come to what Allah says about liar in Quran: ‘lanat’ on liars. That is ‘lanat’ on Abu Baker who spoke lie - that there was no successor announcement by Prophet on Gadeer-a-khum.

Thus, Allah sent ‘lanat’ on Abu Baker. Allah sends ‘lanat’, so as we the followers (Muslims). Allah by sending ‘lanat’ cannot by default be using abusive language or spreading hatred or bigotry then why am I be charged by you of using abusive language and spreading hatred and bigotry for doing as Allah does?

Best regards,

Mubarak

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#149

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:55 am

Originally posted by accountability:
Admin: I would strongly suggest to edit Mubarak's posts. He is spreading hatred and bigotry. His cursing and name calling is, and will offend many muslims. His rhetorical approach and his half baked knowledge do not drive any point, rather his use of abusive language against early and notable muslims hurt many a feeling.
Admin brother Accountability is right. Many of my non bohra friends visiting this site has objected to insulting and defaming writing by some of the board member. You may not be agree with such writings but it gives wrong impression about the movement and board as well. Thanks

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

#150

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:16 am

Mubarak,

Now you are showing your ture color and it is clear visible from writing that what you have learned from your great teacher. Same teaching was given to kothar gange so no wonder whatever they are preaching.

You have qouted Mr. Abbas Ali Alvi's majlis during moharram in Udaipur. I think people of udaipur knows Mr. Abbas Alvi and his past very well. I don't need to comment on this. Who knows him outside of Udaipur?

History qouted by you on vaious posts are fabricated. Don't qoute daim ul islam and other books as per your perception.

I know some people who are well studied religiously but never like to participate in argument. So, please don't think whatever you are writing is correct.