Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj passes away.

[Danish]

Mr. Mubarak, you have failed to refute any of my claims/criticisms but rather dwelled in silly and baseless analogies and bashing Christianity. But that is obviously understandable coming from thoughtless individuals. I call such people “runaway spineless addicts”.

The surah like it challenge has not only been adamantly furnished, far and beyond an ancient one but eloquently and superbly conveyed not one or ten of them (as per Quran) but twelve. Inspite of surah challenges, the entire Quran has been easily, irreversibly and passionately met with utmost fervent, dignity, love and humility that no Man today (including your 'HE GOD' ~ Allah) can match and accomplish in today/s times. That itself is a counter challenge.

Your "Allah" is not only stupid (deaf, dumb and blind) but is worried and shaken up to make a challenge (any kind of challenge) to HIS own creation in the first place. That is quite funny for a supernatural male deity of our cosmological universe to make challenges. Only Islam has such fantastic dieties.

Let me reiterate that I am NOT a religionist but a humanist, meaning that I DO NOT believe in YOUR kind of religious male Arabized chauvinist supernatural fathomable yet fathomless deity nor do I believe or worship any human and stone GODS like you but rather contemplate on Nature/Reality and the circumstance/events that unfold towards admonishing a righteous and meaningful path in every step of the way as we advance. For that, one does not need ancient religious holy shmoly ancient books nor a four+ years degrees nor anyone's Islaimically religious rhetorics.

Remember: There’s NO GOD but god.

[Danish]

By the way, here's what Amazon.com editorial review stated for "The True Furqan":

Editorial Reviews
Book Description
Arabic and English side-by-side on every page. Prose and poetry of the highest caliber in classical Arabic with English interpretation. It contains 77 surahs (chapters) dealing with as many subjects which are beautifully written and easily understood. Love, Light, Peace, Truth, Repentance, Women, Marriage, Fasting, Prayer, Abrogation, The Sacrifice, Inspiration, Paradise, The Scale and The Excellent Names are some of the chapters written in the unique style of the Quran.

Majority of the 250+ postal reviews were Islamofascists or IslamoApologists.

[Danish]

http://www.amazon.com/True-Furqan-Al-Sa ... 114&sr=8-2

[Maqbool]

Mubarak
Eik budhiya ne dava kiya ki mene Charkhe (hand spinning wheel) se seekha ki Allaha hai. Logo ne poocha: kaise? Budhiya boli: Jab me Charkha chalati hoon to yeh chalta hai aur jab me ruk jati hoon tab yeh bhi ruk jata hai. Jab itna chota sa Charkha mere bina chalye nahi chal sakta tab itni badi duniya bina kisi ke chalaye kaise chal sakti hai?

Will you please clarify?

The charkha is run by budhiya.
The budhiya is run by whom?
Obviously according to you it is God. (Jab itna chota sa Charkha mere bina chalye nahi chal sakta tab itni badi duniya bina kisi ke chalaye kaise chal sakti hai?

Then there has to be someone to run the God?

[Danish]

Originally posted by maqbool:
Then there has to be someone to run the God?

Excellent notion. Let us witness Mubarak's excuse or analogy.

[Mubarak]

Originally posted by Danish:
Mr. Mubarak, you have failed to refute any of my claims/criticisms but rather dwelled in silly and baseless analogies and bashing Christianity. But that is obviously understandable coming from thoughtless individuals. I call such people “runaway spineless addicts”.

The surah like it challenge has not only been adamantly furnished, far and beyond an ancient one but eloquently and superbly conveyed not one or ten of them (as per Quran) but twelve. Inspite of surah challenges, the entire Quran has been easily, irreversibly and passionately met with utmost fervent, dignity, love and humility that no Man today (including your 'HE GOD' ~ Allah) can match and accomplish in today/s times. That itself is a counter challenge.

Your "Allah" is not only stupid (deaf, dumb and blind) but is worried and shaken up to make a challenge (any kind of challenge) to HIS own creation in the first place. That is quite funny for a supernatural male deity of our cosmological universe to make challenges. Only Islam has such fantastic dieties.

Let me reiterate that I am NOT a religionist but a humanist, meaning that I DO NOT believe in YOUR kind of religious male Arabized chauvinist supernatural fathomable yet fathomless deity nor do I believe or worship any human and stone GODS like you but rather contemplate on Nature/Reality and the circumstance/events that unfold towards admonishing a righteous and meaningful path in every step of the way as we advance. For that, one does not need ancient religious holy shmoly ancient books nor a four+ years degrees nor anyone's Islaimically religious rhetorics.

Remember: There’s NO GOD but god.

Brother Danish,

To counter the challenge of the Quran you are pitching the Bible (New and Old Testaments)! Brother Danish, the Quran is flawless and your version of Bible is with full of flaws. For the complete detail of flaws in your version of Bible please read the literature of Mr. Thomas Paine. He was the key person in getting freedom for USA. Brother, first face your Bible flaws then dare to compete it with flawless Quran. For free access to ‘The Age of Reason’ Part 1 & 2 by Mr. Thomas Paine please visit the following sites:

http://www.infidels.org/library/histori ... part2.html

[Danish]

Originally posted by Mubarak:

To counter the challenge of the Quran you are pitching the Bible (New and Old Testaments)!

Please stop making excuses and bashing Bible or Christianity and refute my direct claims (I've not spoken of Jesus, Bible or Christianity).

[Danish]

Originally posted by Danish:

Originally posted by Mubarak:
Please stop making excuses and bashing Bible or Christianity and refute my direct claims (I've not spoken of Jesus, Bible or Christianity).

AND NEITHER DO I SUBMIT TO THEM. I was a born Muslim (a Dawoodi Bohra) for over 35 years until I realized that all religions are FAKE, Arabized Islam being the "devil" of all FAKE RELIGIONS.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Danish:

Originally posted by Danish:
AND NEITHER DO I SUBMIT TO THEM. I was a born Muslim (a Dawoodi Bohra) for over 35 years until I realized that all religions are FAKE, Arabized Islam being the "devil" of all FAKE RELIGIONS.

Abu al Qasim (the supposed prophet nickmaned 'muhammad' ~ "the praise one") would have never uttered the following verses if it weren't for you - the disbelivers:

Also can an "Allah", the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious, the All Knowing, the All Powerful, the All Present, utter such narcissist words on HIS own creation.

9:90 The Arabs made up excuses, and came to you seeking permission to stay behind. This is indicative of their rejection of GOD and His messenger - they stay behind. Indeed, those who disbelieve among them have incurred a painful retribution.

9:97
The Arabs are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and the most likely to ignore the laws that GOD has revealed to His messenger. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

9:98 Some Arabs consider their spending (in the cause of God) to be a loss, and even wait in anticipation that a disaster may hit you. It is they who will incur the worst disaster. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

9:101
Among the Arabs around you, there are hypocrites. Also, among the city dwellers, there are those who are accustomed to hypocrisy. You do not know them, but we know them. We will double the retribution for them, then they end up committed to a terrible retribution.

[Danish]

Also, considering just the above four verses of the 'quran' (the reading), YOU, MR. Mubarak and ALL your 1.5 billion Muslim ilk are Arabized disbelievers of your own 'Allah's Words'.

Now visit this site: http://www.submission.org/quran/webqt.php and type in the word "idol" & then "leaders"; then read, understand and contemplate on them.

[Mubarak]

Originally posted by porus:

Originally by Mubarak:

Humans are made of clay/soil and precious stones too are some form of soil.

Mubarak,

I commend you on your contributions to this forum, especially the references to Deeni books and where to order them from.

My opinion is that there is no argument that can be advanced from 'reason' that would prove that God exists. We need not regurgitate classical arguments of Creationism which have been discussed all over the web countless times.

With reference to your quote above, and leaving aside what the Quran says, if we go by modern science, we can say that human beings are made of 'nothing'.

The belief that everything on earth is made of about 100 basic elements, while correct, on a macro level, has been superseded by the belief that everything is made of fundamental particles or energy repositories which have ephemeral existence.

That said, it does not alter your argument. Both men and stones are made of the same stuff, or better, made of the same no-stuff.

The difference appears to be in the level of 'consciousness' in stones versus humans. Consciousness has three main components: energy/power, knowledge/wisdom, and will.

Could you, with your knowledge of haqaaiq, relate the concept of consciousness to the deeni concept of 'aashir-e-mudabbir'?

Salam alekum wa rehmatullah va barkatahu,

Dear Poras bhai,

I will be away for next ten days and will not have access to Forum, Inshallah. On my return I will share whatever little I know on Ashir Muddabbir. And also replies are due for post of: Aftab, Muslim First, Omabharti and partially to Hussain_KSA and Danish. Will share wahtever little bit I know. Inshallah

May Almighty Allah bless all Mumeens and Mumeenats

Best regards,

Mubarak

[seeker110]

No electricity Mubarak bhai?Or short course.

[Mubarak]

Originally posted by seeker110:
No electricity Mubarak bhai?Or short course.

Salam alekum

Dear Seeker110,

With Vasila of Panjatan Pak (a.s.) and their progeny I went for an Umrah trip.

Best regards,

[Gulf]

Umrah tour mubarak to you Taj bhai

God Bless You.

[Hussain_KSA]

Mubarak Bhai,

Umrah mubarak to you. Please let me know next time whenever you come to Makkah. I would like to meet you.

You may write to me on yaahussain@yahoo.com too.

[Mubarak]

Originally posted by Gulf:
Umrah tour mubarak to you Taj bhai

God Bless You.

Dear Brother Gulf,

Alhamdolillah. Thanks for your greetings. May Almighty Allah bless you and all of us in this holy Ramdan.

Best regards,

[Mubarak]

Originally posted by Hussain_KSA:
Mubarak Bhai,

Umrah mubarak to you. Please let me know next time whenever you come to Makkah. I would like to meet you.

You may write to me on yaahussain@yahoo.com too.

Alhamdolllah. Thanks Hussain bhai for your greetings. I will be pleased to meet you. May Almighty Allah bless us to visit Makkah again and again. Aameen.

Yours sincerely,

Mubarak

[Maqbool]

Dear Mubarak

Mubarak to your umrah trip.

Many of us like to know how you have arranged your trip to umrah, since the rubat and other facility of kothar will not be available to you.

Sharing your experience will show other bohras that, without help of kothar you can still perform haj or umrah.

[Mubarak]

Originally posted by maqbool:
Dear Mubarak

Mubarak to your umrah trip.

Many of us like to know how you have arranged your trip to umrah, since the rubat and other facility of kothar will not be available to you.

Sharing your experience will show other bohras that, without help of kothar you can still perform haj or umrah.

Dear Maqbool,

Thanks for your greetings. Alhamdolillah

We went to Umrah via Umrah travel agents. These travel agents take care of procuring Umrah Visas from the Saudi Arabian Embassies, they also arrange for taxes, paper work, etc. Depending on your budget these travel agents book hotels. More economic the budget is further away the hotel will be from Haram. They only arrange for commutation between Mecca and Madina.

The entire Umrah and Jiyarat of Mecca (5 days) and Madina (5 days) package including all expenses but food cost AED $275 to $380 with average to good travel agents. As per my Shababi friend who went last year to Madina told me for just only STAY with jaman (i.e. travel + visa + all expenses are charged additionally) in Madina’s Bohra guest house (Bohra Waqaf) cost $950 or $1225!!! The location of Bohra Guest house in Madina is equally far from Haram like my hotel with above fees.

During the stay travel agent also take to limited Mosques like Masjid-a-Kuba (Prophet (s.a.) said offering Salat in that Mosque bears equal ‘sawab’ like an Umrah), Masjid-a-Qiblaten, Battle ground of Uhad and jiyarat of Molana Hamza (a.s.), etc Majority of the important spots are not covered by these agents but one can go there by private taxies. Now question comes what are those spots which as per Fatimi Dawat rituals one must visit? The answer is in the book “Rehnuma-a-Haj va Jiyarat” by Sheikh Ahmed Ali Sahab.

How to perform Umrah and Madina’s Jiyarat (Masjid a Nabvi and Jaanat-ul-baqi) is in a very easy and step by step structural manner as per Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia is present in text + pictures in pocket size thin book named “Rehnuma-a-Haj va Jiyarat” by Sheikh Ahmed Ali Sahab this book can be ordered from the addresses mentioned in my previous posts.

Alhamdolillah a rabbil aalameen

[Mubarak]

Correction in 1st paragraph: Please read last line as:
They also arrange for commutation between Mecca and Madina

[seeker110]

Its more fun to to take life as Allah gives it to us.All sorts of prearrangement takes the fun out of traveling.I use travel agent for info.purpose only.They are aware of laws.After that I am on my own.
In Iraq the best place for money exchange is at the gold market (baghdad).Just like craft market in Bombay.Hotels are cheap if you ask around the workers at the airport.Find out how the workers get to and from work.Never trust a taxi driver.
At the bus stands there are private taxi drivers also looking for passengers.He may take a couple of extra passengers but it becomes more fun.
In Karbala the amil was asking for $350.I did not go to him.I rented a room across from hazrat Abbas's mazar for 3 days for about $10.00.Amil arranges cheap buses at fixed times.You can do this on your own conveniently and without restrictions.
The same rule applies for Jeddah to Mecca and Mecca to Madena.Help fill out forms for all the people in the airplane around you and earn sawab,at the same time you have got yourself a big group of people.Hire a bus and you will be with all the fellow travelers all the time.Its very inexpensive and lot of fun.
I did it with a little child.Piece of cake.
Dont let Amil rob you of the fun and money.Eat BBQ kababs in the Dahbas and the pomegranate juice from the street stalls,when you want to.
P.S. Take shan masala give it to the kabab guy to mix it with your meat.Arabs eat bland food.Do away with Amil and musafir khana.

[Maqbool]

The Sayedul kher Amil of Chennai is charging Rs 25 to50 thousand to give confirmation for Haj this year. These beggars have made religion their business.

It is high time that all mumenis going for Haj or Umra should get together and arrange the trip their own through a known travel agent. Otherwise these crooks will take mumenis at ride.

The guide lines are given by Mubarak and Seeker110 in earlier post.

[Smart]

^agree with the post.

Maybe we need a Obama to tell us about Hope and Change.

[Mubarak]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Br. AC wrote:

Admin: I would strongly suggest to edit Mubarak's posts.

Br.Mubarak should be allowed to express is opinion and his ignorance as per as what is Islam.

Br. Mubarak;

AS

Your 'Khachhar' story is fascinating. You do not give any reference to this lie and unless you come up with one you are a liar.

As far as Islam is concerned nowhere in 5 pillars of Islam or 7 Basic belief (Akida) of Islam, belief in succession is mentioned.

You can go on saying 'Lanat' for rest of your life.Please read read and understand the following Hadith from Prophet SAW. (BTW traditionally Prophet Muhammad is addressed as S.A.W., Other Prophets as A.S. and Sahabas are addressed as R.A.)

CURSING

Abu Darda narrated that Prophet SAW said:

when a person curses someone, the curse ascends to Heaven, where all gates are closed against it. Then it descends to earth and turns left and right. After finding no exit, it finds the one who has been cursed and attaches itself to him if he deserves it; but if he doesn't, it returns to one who uttered it
Recorded by Abu Dawood

History of Islam is well recorded. Majorities has one version and in general are concerned with 5 pillars and 7 basic beliefs. If you want to dwell of succession issue then you must ask yourself where are rightful successors?

Wasalaam
.

Muslim First: Your 'Khachhar' story is fascinating. You do not give any reference to this lie and unless you come up with one you are a liar.

Mubarak: Quran Majeed ki Ismaili Tafseer (book in 4 volumes, Available in Bohra Gujrati, also the audio CD’s are available from the addresses mentioned in my previous posts)

Muslim First: As far as Islam is concerned nowhere in 5 pillars of Islam or 7 Basic belief (Akida) of Islam, belief in succession is mentioned.

Mubarak: As per Daim-ul-Islam of Molana Kazi Noman (r.a.) there are seven pillars of Islam: Valayat, Taharat, Namaz, Roza, Zakat, Haj and Zihad. The first pillar itself is about succession.

Muslim First: You can go on saying 'Lanat' for rest of your life.

Mubarak: In Quran on several occasion Allah has sent ‘Lanat’, thus not only me but whomsoever will read Quran for rest of their life too will say lanat!

Muslim First: History of Islam is well recorded. Majorities has one version and in general are concerned with 5 pillars and 7 basic beliefs. If you want to dwell of succession issue then you must ask yourself where are rightful successors?

Mubarak: History of Islam says that every Prophet has appointed their successor like Aadam (a.s.) has appointed Habeel (a.s.), Nooh (a.s.) has appointed Saam (a.s.), Ibrahim (a.s.) has appointed Ismail (a.s.), Moosa (a.s.) has appointed Haroon (a.s.), Eesa (a.s.) has appointed Shamoon (a.s.), now will Mohammad (a.s.) leave world unlike his predecessors without appointing his successor?

[Mubarak]

Muslim First: If you want to dwell of succession issue then you must ask yourself where are rightful successors?

Mubarak: On the day of Mubahila Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) challenged Christians: come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars." (3:61)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Mubahila: Sunni interpreters such as Zamakhshari, Baydawi, Imam Fakhr Razi and others regard `Ali, Fatimah, Hasan and Husayn (peace be upon them all) superior to all other people and argue that Hassan and Husayn are the sons of the Messenger (s) of Allah. The term "anfusina" in the "mubahalah verse" proves the unity of the heart and soul of Prophet Muhammad and `Ali. The Holy Prophet (s) stated: "`Ali is of me and I am of `Ali." ("Fadail al- Khamsah" 343/1). The "mubahalah tradition" has been recounted in different books of "sirah" and history with various wordings. These include those of Tirmidhi ("Sahih" 166/2) which quotes S`ad ibn Abi Waqqas as follows: "When the mubahalah verse was recited, the Holy Prophet (s) summoned `Ali, Fatimah, Hasan, and Husayn and said: `O Allah, these are the Members of my Household." This tradition has been narrated by Hakim Nishaburi in "Al-Mustadrak" 150/3 and Bayhaqi in "Sunan" 63/7. Hakim regards this tradition as authentic

Mubarak: When it come to “our women” then why Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) took Molatina Fatima (a.s.) and not Aaisha? When it comes to “our near people” why Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) took Mola Ali (a.s.) and not Abu Bakr/Umar/Usman? When it comes to “Our sons” why Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) took Molana Hasan (a.s.) and Molana Hussain (a.s.)?

The answer is: ‘Lanat’ will come on those who are and who have practice ‘lies’. Mohammed, Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain (a.s.) are those who never practices lies thus they were present in the acid test of Mubahila and rest knew themselves that throughout their life they have practiced lies so they were not with Prophet Mohammed.

Aayat of Mubahila (3:61) unambiguously and doubtlessly convey that whoever will come to challenge Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husssain (a.s.) are liar. And Allah says ‘Lanat’ on liars.

[Mubarak]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

Dear Respected Brother Mr. Muslim First,

I regret, I do not know the answer for this question.

Best regards,

Mubarak

Br. Mubarak;, AS
Do you have any reference for your ‘Kipti Sipti’ story (Like Qur’an or Hadith)?

Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) was first to sacrifice his son Ibrahim on Imam Husssain (a.s.). One day Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) was very happy when he carried in one hand his son Ibrahim and in another hand Imam Hussain (a.s.). Angel Zibraeel came and said o’ Prophet you are very happy by carrying both kids but Allah want sacrifice of either Ibrahim or Hussain? Prophet sacrificed Ibrahim over Hussain (a.s.).

Another fantastic story.

Any Quran or Hadith reference and it is Bohra Taweel ? (Sorry Br. Porus this ‘Taweel ‘word creeps up all the time!)

Wasalaam
.[/b]

Muslim First: Do you have any reference for your ‘Kipti Sipti’ story (Like Qur’an or Hadith)?

Mubarak: Quran Majeed ki Ismaili Tafseer

Any Quran or Hadith reference and it is Bohra Taweel ? (Sorry Br. Porus this ‘Taweel ‘word creeps up all the time!)

Mubarak: Morning Moharram Majlis @ Vazeehpura Mosque - Year 2005/06

[Mubarak]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

Prophet (s.a.) will teach the Zahir Ilm and Mola Ali (a.s.) will teach the batini / taweel.

So Brother Mubarak;

Maula ali RA must have taught Batini for more than 20 years after passing away of Prohet SAW.

Where are the recorded books of his Tawil teachings?

Wasalaam

Nahjul Balagha

[Muslim First]

Where are the recorded books of his Tawil teachings?

Wasalaam

Nahjul Balagha

Who has copy?

Nahjul Balagha has no Tawil or Batin taught by Hz Ali RA

Is there any book recording Tawil/Batin by any Imams?

Or it is red herring that my Imam has Tawil/ Batin Knowledge.

[Muslim First]

Any Quran or Hadith reference and it is Bohra Taweel ?

Probably similat to Ginan being Tafseer of Qur'an!!!!!!

[Aarif]

Unfortunately Sheikh Ahmed Ali Raz has passed away long time back. However, we keep reusing this thread for various other debates. My sincere request to all is to stop using or over using this thread... Let the poor man's souls rest in peace. I think the ADMIN should close this topic...