Question to our new fanatic

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Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#181

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:39 am

answerer wrote:
think_for_yourself wrote: Salaar bhai as an adna mumin I see myself more than qualified to sense the spirituality of one person over another. I do trust my own heart and mind more than what someone tells me. That is why I doubted the alleged nass when I saw the video and never heard Burhanuddin Aqa say in his own voice that he had conferred nass. And please do not point to the newly uploaded video with it's doctored audio. I have seen the original video enough number of times to know what I heard and saw.

MS's tentative and unsure behavior in Raudat Tahera and his first sentence claiming that he was not deserving, increased my doubts further! I never ever heard SMB doubt his own capabilities or his worthiness as a dai. In fact he always said loud and clear that HE would lead us to watan e qadeem. My doubts were confirmed when I heard MS's nonsensical bayaans. I want my two and a half years and 50 hours spent in hearing nonsensical bayaans back! There were some simple reasons why I was won over by SKQ. No one had to enact a drama to make me believe that he was the 53rd dai. He told the truth in a way that made me believe him. His rutba is one of three that has defined dawat for me for my whole life. If SMB trusted him to keep him as mazoon for fifty years, I had no reason not to trust him.

If your heart tells you that MS is the next dai and your brain is convinced then I guess you must follow your heart and mind. Mine begs to differ. But it sounds like you are not really entirely convinced because you cannot think of 10 qualities that makes him fit to lead his people. And you are jumping to criticize his administration which is really SMB's administration that was run by proxy by his sons for the last few years....

well bhai ...
For many people the question might arise that how could Khuzaima Qutbuddin have remained in his position for so long and never been removed. In fact, this is one of the claims that he and his children have
purported on their website, Fatimidawat.com,“On 17th Shaban 1434H Syedna Qutbuddin became the only Mazoon in the history of Dawat to serve a single Dai for fifty years. Despite many attempts by those exploiting Syedna’s trust over the years – especially Shehzada Mufaddal bhaisaheb – Syedna Burhanuddin maintained without fail, in every misaq and every majlis, that Syedna Qutbuddin was his Mazoon.”This might seem compelling if one did not keep the history of Da’wat in mind. Aqa Moula al-Hayy al-Muqaddas Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA always read the zikr of Rasullullah’s SAW zaman in his Mawa’iz Nuraniyya (bayaano). Even at that time there were certain figures whom we all know seemed very close to Rasullullah SAW. Rasullullah SAW did not explicitly remove them from Da’wat, rather he kept them close and in their positions. This might be a very difficult concept to understand,however, it is by no means an isolated event in Da’wat’s history. Awliyaullah AS have followed this policy, one that is focused on the prosperity and of Da’wat and the preservation of the nufus of mumineen.For instance, Aqa Moula al-Hayy al-Muqaddas RA has done bayan in his Risala Sharifa,Rawḍ Dār al-Salām,about the 41st Dai Syedna Abduttayyib Zakiuddin RA and his organization of the tartib of the hudood when he ascended to ‘Arsh ud Da’wat (pgs. 257-258). In this event,Syedna Zakiuddin RA kept some of the hudood in their positions despite their insufficiencies, either completely or partly, in knowledge (‘ilm), deeds (‘amal),and walayat, because the time at hand required the political step to do so. This was done for a reason and matter keepingin mind the the ultimate welfareof the Da’wat and the conformity and harmony of the community at large.Therefore, it shouldn’t be that surprising that this policy, one with spiritual benefits in mind, also took place in this zaman. Aqa Moula Syenda Muhammed Burhanuddin RA always kept the well-being of mumineen in mind and emphasized the forces that united us rather than pay attention to the lurking darkness that might divide us. Therefore, this might explain why Khuzaima waited until Moula al-Hayy al-Muqaddass RA closed his eyes for eternal rest to deploy what he has been scheming for fifty years.
Answerer, use a little common sense when you try to make analogies. You are trying to compare Rasulallah's keeping of the 3 close to him with Burhanuddin mola's keeping SKQ as mazoon for 50 years. Let's rationalize these two situations:
Rasulallah kept the 3 close to him as they were powerful, affluent and influential people, he needed them in the early days for the spread of Islam. Whereas SMB RA had no political reason to make SKQ mazoon, he was a young around 25 year old bhaisab and way down in tarteeb. There were many more powerful people SMB RA could have chosen if siyasat was his objective. But he chose SKQ because he was created and moulded by STS RA and destined to be Dai some day. So as you see the two situations are not analogus. Similarly Syedna Abdul Tayyeb Zakiyuddin had to keep some of his hudood in place because they were powerful people and siyasat was necessary. Whereas SMB's appointment of SKQ was a show of conviction of faith and it ruffled many powerful people like YN and his bros. This was no act of siyasat!

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#182

Unread post by alam » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:21 am

Don't you see, HAQQ Prevails, hypothetically speaking
that If syedna Burhanuddin had openly declared Mufaddalbhaisaheb as mansoos as early as 1388 and again and again, couldn 't one expect mazoon Saheb to revolt back then, form his own firqa back then, thwart the machinery of Dawat, sabotage Yusufbhai Saheb Najmuddin and his family's devoted khidmat of Dawat, and sway 1-2 million plus Bohras toward his new firqa, and the 1 million plus dawoodi bohras would be gone from the faith of syedna Burhanuddin and his declared mansoos?
:roll: :roll:

monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#183

Unread post by monginis » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:22 am

more than a month passed yet no one can bring at least 10 qualities of muffy to prove him dai?

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#184

Unread post by true_bohra » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:25 am

More than 3 months passed and yet your dai is unable to prove that he is the real Dai...

monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#185

Unread post by monginis » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:08 am

true_bohra wrote:More than 3 months passed and yet your dai is unable to prove that he is the real Dai...
Congratulations true_a** !!!

atleast you have balls to show up on this thread.

btw I am not asking to prove who is dai and who is not, but I am just asking for basic 10-20 qualities in muffy which can make him look like DAI or shiyate Ali.

as far as SKQ is concern, at least he has written in public about his views and how he will run his dawat, he is transparent enough to world.

muffy has given any thing in written to his sheepish abdes?

http://fatemidawat.files.wordpress.com/ ... on-1-1.pdf

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#186

Unread post by way2go » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:27 am

monginis wrote:
true_bohra wrote:More than 3 months passed and yet your dai is unable to prove that he is the real Dai...
Congratulations true_a** !!!

atleast you have balls to show up on this thread.

btw I am not asking to prove who is dai and who is not, but I am just asking for basic 10-20 qualities in muffy which can make him look like DAI or shiyate Ali.

as far as SKQ is concern, at least he has written in public about his views and how he will run his dawat, he is transparent enough to world.

muffy has given any thing in written to his sheepish abdes?

http://fatemidawat.files.wordpress.com/ ... on-1-1.pdf
Monginis bhai...asking 10-20 qualities not required at one go...let them start at just three...ONLY 3...and these should be with covincing explanations of each quality stated.

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#187

Unread post by silvertongue » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:11 am

3... are you serious man... thats a big challenge...

Truth-Prevails
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:02 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#188

Unread post by Truth-Prevails » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:42 am

No. 1 fazeelat of Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin

- has the guts to cross closed unmanned railway tracks so he can meet with his followers who will have 10 more minutes to shower him with Fakhri najwa. He is willing to risk his life and that of all those of his followers who will consider themselves shaheed is they die crossing railways tracks as they are following in the literal footsteps of their savior.

Beat that you coward rationalists

monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#189

Unread post by monginis » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:47 am

Truth-Prevails wrote:No. 1 fazeelat of Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin

- has the guts to cross closed unmanned railway tracks so he can meet with his followers who will have 10 more minutes to shower him with Fakhri najwa. He is willing to risk his life and that of all those of his followers who will consider themselves shaheed is they die crossing railways tracks as they are following in the literal footsteps of their savior.

Beat that you coward rationalists
:mrgreen: cant beat that :lol:

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#190

Unread post by way2go » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:58 am

Truth-Prevails wrote:No. 1 fazeelat of Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin

- has the guts to cross closed unmanned railway tracks so he can meet with his followers who will have 10 more minutes to shower him with Fakhri najwa. He is willing to risk his life and that of all those of his followers who will consider themselves shaheed is they die crossing railways tracks as they are following in the literal footsteps of their savior.

Beat that you coward rationalists

:D :P :lol:

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#191

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Tue May 20, 2014 4:06 pm

Adam bhai i appreciate your efforts to give us detailed explanation related to London nass episode.

Using such efforts may i request you to kindly showcase min 5 or 10 points of SMS capabilities, qualifications, achievements (combined)which make you die-hard follower of SMS.

Small rule : Please dont mention Nass part in the list.

Thanks

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#192

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:50 am

I was going through education qualifications of SKQ sahab family and MS family, there is no comparison, only Hussain son of MS looks impressive because he is Quraan hafiz, who else looks educated?

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#193

Unread post by MMH » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:40 pm

Sufi monk wrote:I was going through education qualifications of SKQ sahab family and MS family, there is no comparison, only Hussain son of MS looks impressive because he is Quraan hafiz, who else looks educated?

Jafar Us Sadiq b.s's qualifications (got this from Wikipedia) he is scholar on comparitive religious studies....

Ja'far us Sadiq Mufaddal Saifuddin is the eldest son of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin. He is a professor, author and scholar in the field of Islamic, Ismaili, Fatemi[disambiguation needed] and Dawoodi Bohra studies. He is also a religious poet[citation needed].

He completed his Masters al Faqih al Jayyid (Arabic: الفقيه الجيد‎) at Al Jamea tus Saifiyah in Surat, India[citation needed]. He further on graduated in Arabic literature from Cairo University. He is currently studying for a Masters Degree in Arabic Literature at ALESCO, the institute of Arabic Research and Studies, Cairo. He received a Doctorate in Literature and Philosophy from the University of Cairo in 2013.

Heads and overlooks the viva sessions (المناقشة) for Masters Degree dissertations written by students.[citation needed]

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#194

Unread post by Sufi monk » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:43 pm

MMH wrote:
Sufi monk wrote:I was going through education qualifications of SKQ sahab family and MS family, there is no comparison, only Hussain son of MS looks impressive because he is Quraan hafiz, who else looks educated?

Jafar Us Sadiq b.s's qualifications (got this from Wikipedia) he is scholar on comparitive religious studies....

Ja'far us Sadiq Mufaddal Saifuddin is the eldest son of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin. He is a professor, author and scholar in the field of Islamic, Ismaili, Fatemi[disambiguation needed] and Dawoodi Bohra studies. He is also a religious poet[citation needed].

He completed his Masters al Faqih al Jayyid (Arabic: الفقيه الجيد‎) at Al Jamea tus Saifiyah in Surat, India[citation needed]. He further on graduated in Arabic literature from Cairo University. He is currently studying for a Masters Degree in Arabic Literature at ALESCO, the institute of Arabic Research and Studies, Cairo. He received a Doctorate in Literature and Philosophy from the University of Cairo in 2013.

Heads and overlooks the viva sessions (المناقشة) for Masters Degree dissertations written by students.[citation needed]
Thanx, it means MS sons are better educated and more layak of dai post than their father :roll: (at least in education sense)

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#195

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:52 pm

One wonders these guys SKQ and SMS sons if they were really pursuing theological studies in places like Cairo and UK why are they still abde. Surely some of the knowledge would brush on and they would be more secular.

Unless they go to get the titles and because the are private fee and donation paying students they are allowed to pass ?

Something is cooking, can I claim I am a scholar in reforms , pursuing masters in ideological revolutionary sciences

Secondly a phd graduate scholar professor is pursuing masters ?

Any one seen the thesis or problem solved by their postgrad effort, notice wiki is asking for clarity and citations

Even Kim Jung studied in Switzerland but the what after the studies , what did they do with the knowledge

They look like titles to dazzle Abdes

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#196

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:41 am

Mufaddal is a good role model, looking at him one can learn that "how one should not be"

every kid must learn from him "that what should not be done in life and how one can become munafiq, and also that how not to treat own parents and uncles"

so yes Mufaddal is important for bohras.

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#197

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:07 am

I personally believe tone of speaker in every sect is also important to find if they are on haq or on batil, I have attended hundreds of majlis from almost every sect and here is conclusion on their tone of speaking.

aggressive to passive speech goes in descending order from my findings.

sunnis (attended their jumuaa khutba and I am so amazed they shout like there is no tomorrow with really low substance in their entire speech)
wahabia (same like sunnis but they are more stupid)
shia (most scholars apart from highest one is found to shout a lot)
mufaddalis (they shout like any thing, specially the leader, and there is no substance at all)
Qutbis (leader has lost his speech so it is really hard to know if he is shouting in his speech or he is normal, but some times he does losses his temper while making a point)
sufis (moderate speakers, till now havent found any sufi lecturer shouting in his bayan)
agha khanis (sober they dont shout at all, but they are more like corporates than an islamic scholars)

Saeed al Khair
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: Question to our new fanatic

#198

Unread post by Saeed al Khair » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:04 am

Jafar us Sadiq elder son of MS is a real enemy of educated class. He said not to read books published without Raza or by out siders from non Dawat sources, even translation is perfect but question of Raza is there.

MMH wrote:
Sufi monk wrote:I was going through education qualifications of SKQ sahab family and MS family, there is no comparison, only Hussain son of MS looks impressive because he is Quraan hafiz, who else looks educated?

Jafar Us Sadiq b.s's qualifications (got this from Wikipedia) he is scholar on comparitive religious studies....

Ja'far us Sadiq Mufaddal Saifuddin is the eldest son of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin. He is a professor, author and scholar in the field of Islamic, Ismaili, Fatemi[disambiguation needed] and Dawoodi Bohra studies. He is also a religious poet[citation needed].

He completed his Masters al Faqih al Jayyid (Arabic: الفقيه الجيد‎) at Al Jamea tus Saifiyah in Surat, India[citation needed]. He further on graduated in Arabic literature from Cairo University. He is currently studying for a Masters Degree in Arabic Literature at ALESCO, the institute of Arabic Research and Studies, Cairo. He received a Doctorate in Literature and Philosophy from the University of Cairo in 2013.

Heads and overlooks the viva sessions (المناقشة) for Masters Degree dissertations written by students.[citation needed]