Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#661

Unread post by Sufi monk » Mon May 19, 2014 12:43 am

Muffy finally digged his grave, last nail in his coffin will come soon.

suleman
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:01 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#662

Unread post by suleman » Mon May 19, 2014 12:50 am

Muqaddas Sydena Arab look alike used in video... now dead..
Attachments
sydena lookalike.jpg

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#663

Unread post by Sufi monk » Mon May 19, 2014 12:54 am

suleman wrote:Muqaddas Sydena Arab look alike used in video... now dead..
omg did they really thought they can fake SMB(r) with this person?

Muffy has lost his nuts.

Bhai salaar must be laughing loud now.... :roll:

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#664

Unread post by Sufi monk » Mon May 19, 2014 12:57 am

they will have to submit this video in court and also hand over one copy to SKQ, and now they have no chance to fake out.

Truthseeker
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:01 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#665

Unread post by Truthseeker » Mon May 19, 2014 1:05 am

First and foremost, I wonder why the video was not taken and just an audio was taken when the nass was conferred on SMS.
Secondly, The video doesnt show anything besides SMB waving his hands here and there and doing what he was told by the people around him under the influence of Medication.
Thirdly, Assuming that the audio is genuine, SMB could have easily told the same words to the general public when he was out of hospital as he was alive atleast for 20 months or so after the alleged London Hospital Nass. Especially that when he did shahadat in the latter part , he could have atleast mentioned a few words validating the nass in presence of outsiders and not just his family.

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#666

Unread post by MMH » Mon May 19, 2014 1:17 am

suleman wrote:Muqaddas Sydena Arab look alike used in video... now dead..
This person died in 2013. He can't be the look alike used...

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 587
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#667

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Mon May 19, 2014 1:20 am

I saw the video today at the Masjid. The 1st question is: If they had this video and others, why not show it 3 years back and minimize the split in the community? Did they not have an obligation to do that?

The timing of it? Why now? And there was nothing in terms of time stamp that this was on 3rd Rajab? I assume it was in the Cromwell hospital, but it could have been 10-15th Rajab, when Moula is better and can sit. How do we know it was 3rd Rajab? No reference to any date was made (as best as I could catch the video) and nothing could be proven that this was taken on 3rd Rajab.

I would like to know the answers to the following questions:

• On 3rd Rajab, was Moula in a private room, like this video suggests, or in an intensive care unit (ICU)? Hospital records should show that. If he was in a private room, okay, else there is a disconnect. And if he was in ICU, is this how ICUs look in the Cormwell hospital? If not, that would mean one more lie (??) – and it may be damaging in the courts.
• What is the hospital policy? Do they allow so many people at one time in a room, even a private room? On a Sunday at 9:30 PM? [Weekend policy may be different.]
• And what do the hospital records show in terms of the # of visitors? Does the hospital keep records and did it show all these people on that date and time going into the room?
It was about 9:30 pm (I checked that magrib is about 9:07 PM in London on June 4th) on a Sunday and this is after Magrib.
• And what do the hospital records show of Moula’s health - was he conscious or was he unconscious on 3rd Rajab?
• The # of people in the video. Does it line up with the 6people that Abdul Qadir BS said? It was hard to keep track, but assuming this video is posted online, I would like to review that.
• Who shot this video? That is one more person? Was it from a phone or something else? If something else, how did they have a recording equipment right away a few hours after a stroke?
• Right after a stroke would there not be more telemetry and monitoring of a patient? Did not see a lot of telemetry? Is that how he would have been monitored on rajab 3rd? The hospital folks should be asked about it.
• How come nobody came to check on Moula? And if he suddenly became conscious, after he was unconscious, the Shezadas are just going about talking of the nass, qadambosi, etc. I would get very happy and immediately run to the medical staff with the good news, correct?
• Why not after that have some urgency and call the doctor to convey the improvement in the patient’s (Moula’s) health?

• And what happened after this video, assuming it is on 3rd Rajab? After this again Maula became unconscious? Just curious?

• The whole period is more than 90 minutes. Abdul Qadir BS says he looked at the time and it was 8:07 PM. And then they went to get Muffadal Maula and they prayed magrib at Bonham House (Magrib is 9:07 PM) and then they came back. Has to be at least 9:20-9:30 PM. And then this whole video. That is 90 minutes plus. No medical staff came anytime in that whole period to check and be a witness to any of this?

This raises more questions, and if something does not match up with other information, or is in contradiction with other information – that may hurt the case.

One of my concerns is that people may end up seeing in this video what they want to see. I personally have some doubts, but --- will let it be argued by non-Bohra lawyers in court.

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#668

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Mon May 19, 2014 1:37 am

Another question I have is the guy shooting this video knew that a Nass was going to be done?

Did he take "Raza" as its compulsory to do so?

And I will say once again, this cannot be a private video or event that could not be shown earlier. Its a major event and when minor events are shown live or recordings, this was the mother of all events

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#669

Unread post by true_bohra » Mon May 19, 2014 1:41 am

KQ asked for the proofs, we gave
- witten testimony
- personal testimonies
- Audio
-Video

What is he having- HAWA MAIN BAATEIN...

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#670

Unread post by Sufi monk » Mon May 19, 2014 1:44 am

true_bohra wrote:KQ asked for the proofs, we gave
- witten testimony
- personal testimonies
- Audio
-Video

What is he having- HAWA MAIN BAATEIN...
SKQ asked for authentic proofs and he is swearing on Quraan for nass on him, while muffy is providing every thing fake and jumping around here and there trying to fool masses.

Syedna Qutbuddin has already invited muffy for mubhailaa, if muffy is so correct he must say labbaik and appear for mubhaila in front of Syedna Qutbuddin.

maddy
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:12 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#671

Unread post by maddy » Mon May 19, 2014 2:04 am

(informed abt nass)
Je_waqat_ghare_padhaara
Attachments
(informed abt nass) Je_waqat_ghare_padhaara.jpg

reluctantreligist
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:02 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#672

Unread post by reluctantreligist » Mon May 19, 2014 3:27 am

one straightforward question.why there was only audio of the nuss.,and in the video smb has no knowledge of what is happening around him.Doesnt speak a single word.again the kothars making a fool of abdes.a most silly video to convince the foolish abdes and must have succeded to a certain extent.

answerer
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:01 am

Re: nass video and audio clip

#673

Unread post by answerer » Mon May 19, 2014 4:16 am

confused_mumin wrote:I just saw the video & heard the audio and as far as i remember then last time mufaddal bhaisaab had said that he was not present in the hospital instead his other brothers were present in the hospital along with Dr.Moiz Bhaisaab.He was infact at home & someone went there & broke the news to him about nass.But here in the video it shows that he is very much present there & others are doing his qadambosi.Also face of Burhanuddin Moula isnt similar & voice is not clear.Something fishy for sure.
dear confused mo**n

truth is truth you can't ran awat from it now !!!

Okay as your question is Muffadal moula(tus) was not present in hospital yes it is right !!! but as you said you saw the video yestrdy ,if you were not sleeping at that time before that video a audio clip is shown at dat tym Muffadal moula was not there and aftr that a video is shown up its of next day where moula (TUS. was present and all shezada saab did kadambosi

suleman
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:01 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#674

Unread post by suleman » Mon May 19, 2014 4:26 am

Can someone post the audio of nass..which was really in maszid.

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#675

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Mon May 19, 2014 4:50 am

true_bohra wrote:KQ asked for the proofs, we gave
- witten testimony
- personal testimonies
- Audio
-Video

What is he having- HAWA MAIN BAATEIN...
The proofs provided by SMS team will be INSHAALLAH in favor of khuzaima Saheb if all the documents, videos and audios are not doctored by SMS team.

confused_mumin
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:42 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#676

Unread post by confused_mumin » Mon May 19, 2014 4:54 am

Confirmed news from sources that the video & audio submitted in the court is not the one which was shown to all the general public on sunday (18/5/2014).

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#677

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Mon May 19, 2014 5:00 am

confused_mumin wrote:Confirmed news from sources that the video & audio submitted in the court is not the one which was shown to all the general public on sunday (18/5/2014).
If the source of news is confirmed than i think the court should be made aware that how this SMS team is playing with momins emotion. Hope SKQ team is having this video.

I really feel pity from the bottom of my heart that these momeens are considering him equal to GOD and instead of becoming their Massiah he is using them.

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#678

Unread post by Sufi monk » Mon May 19, 2014 5:09 am

only mad guy will think he can play with million brains, muffy is digging deeper and deeper hole for himself, finally a small push will come from public and he will fall in this pit, as it happens in movie 300.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=514IEcgz1Q8
Attachments
300boot.jpg

confused_mumin
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:42 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#679

Unread post by confused_mumin » Mon May 19, 2014 5:20 am

well not exactly because for now almost all the abdes of sms have accepted this & for them this is the final proof for any doubts they had in their minds.Now probably a much bigger & solid proof from SKQ Saheb can only do a trick or two & force the abdes to start thinking & questioning again.

Yes SKQ Camp have already got the audio & video.Probably they may start analysing & find the missing points in both the audio & video.Yes there is serious doubts about the voice in the audio.Also if the video is of the 2nd day after nass then well MS & his brothers would have gone to the hospital well prepared (read with a proper camera for video recording with the necessary permission from the hospital authorities as this is a big event).Now if they did take a proper camera then why did not they zoom onto the face of SMB Saheb?just why?and even if they did not have a proper camera then i am sure that SMS & his brothers do use a high end smartphone with a better camera which can be used to zoom in & out.Note the health of SMB Saheb.Note his neck movement.His neck is also straight there is no hunch.Also note that he had a serious stroke & if accepted that it was a mojiza and he sat up & started moving his neck & hands then why is he not in the ICU?..the doctors would definately have to monitor his movements & they for sure would keep him in ICU.The room doesnt resemble an ICU!!

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#680

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon May 19, 2014 5:51 am

Frankly, SMS camp is taking a lot of efforts to convince the bohra fold of SMS being the right successor. He is touring all over the place, mingling with people, announcing schemes and events forming a stronghold opinion in minds of community people. While SKQ is passive, limited to his thane residence and doing dawaa through his website. As he believe he is the rightful daai, he needs to get out, get going and act like one !


Broadcasting his bayaans on internet and sharing literature is good, but not effective enough. Morever, he is behaving like a contender rather then act like a rightful DAI ! while SMS is parading all over the place, be it on foot or high flying helicopters !

Looks like, SMS has learnt very well campaigning skills from NaMo !


SKQ was silent for 50 years, SKQ murmured after the “Nass” for 3 years and he is not very loud after death of SMB !


Frankly, If he himself is committed to well being of the people, he would carry on with his mission of piety and attract people with his work, words, simplicity and wisdom. After all Dai are not suppose to chase people to come to bohra fold. They need to just take care of those who believe in Bohraism. Truth will outshine now or later !


SKQ needs to work on his PR and Marketing skills if he wants to be the owner of the fortune ! if he is genuine DAI, then he needs to just focus on faith and move on his life. Such court battle presents his desires to control the fortunes.
Last edited by humanbeing on Mon May 19, 2014 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ummehani52
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:43 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#681

Unread post by Ummehani52 » Mon May 19, 2014 5:56 am

Again. I repeat.. If KQ had all these evidences and SMS didn't and swore on the quran most of you will say its clear the evidence KQ has are true.. It's visual, you can hear SMB ect.. In other words its practical... KQ took a practical path saying that there was no evidence in that hospital when Nass was done... It was impossible to have Sharbat, impossible for whole hospital Nass to happen... He ignored the divine persona of SMB.. Which not many will agree here for SMB but point is... It's there. His argument and even Abdeali and Aziz press conferences said it's all false the way they Shezadas described the Nass because there's no adequate evidence... People will always try to pick out bits and operate on it, you could say... But if that visual was shown in KQs favour, this particular topic forum would be totally different right now.

byculla
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:40 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#682

Unread post by byculla » Mon May 19, 2014 6:25 am

Adam - I am an "Abd" of Syedna Burhanuddin - truly distressed by current events. I have now seen the video and what I saw was convincing. However this question still does linger in my mind - if you have the proof why not show it immediately ? Further you are certainly not helping me by disclosing who is the culprit in not resolving this by a discussion.

I am not a qutbi bohra - still undecided although certainly leaning more towards mufaddal mola after seeing the video. You have to be ludicrous to think I am not a dawoodi bohra (do any of my previous comments even suggest that ?)

I really doubt your sources when you tell that the "delegation was returned by SKQ". Think for yourself - if that were true what would prevent believesyednaqutbuddin.com to tell this (believesyednaqutbuddin.com have twisted many a facts and have told outright lies as well previously. What would prevent them from telling a truth like this if it were ? ) ? What would prevent PR machinary of dawat to put this out - that its SKQ who is preventing a dialogue and not SMS ? My common sense tells me in the many waaz since 4th Rabiul Akhar, Mufaddal mola would certainly have had announced that our delegation went but was returned back from SKQ side. In fact it was his responsibility to announce that since he initiated this in a public waaz relayed worldwide.

As I see it, SKQ camp have been consistently telling they want a dialogue starting from the first sermon itself. They declared in the first press conference that they may have to go to courts as attempts to settle this by dialogue have failed so far. They went to court only after they figured the other party was not willing to come for a dialogue. If you are on "Haq" as SMS camp believes and with the power and ilm of Jamea Saifiyah to back you its hard to imagine why would you not be willing for a dialogue and an outright open debate especially with a person whose speech is not clear. It defies all my logic. In fact that should be the very first response from SMS side and irrefutably that has not been the first response - not the response to this date.

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#683

Unread post by Sufi monk » Mon May 19, 2014 6:32 am

mumbaikar bohra says they are now treated very well, amazingly all amil talks with low tone and when they visit amil office they are not treated as dog like before.

ps - source my relatives in Mumbai.

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#684

Unread post by Sufi monk » Mon May 19, 2014 6:38 am

why cant they just organize debate in masjid and clear all doubts once for all?

after all SKQ is uncle and former mazoon, why keeping him away from talks?

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#685

Unread post by true_bohra » Mon May 19, 2014 6:54 am

Sufi monk wrote:
true_bohra wrote:KQ asked for the proofs, we gave
- witten testimony
- personal testimonies
- Audio
-Video

What is he having- HAWA MAIN BAATEIN...
SKQ asked for authentic proofs and he is swearing on Quraan for nass on him, while muffy is providing every thing fake and jumping around here and there trying to fool masses.

Syedna Qutbuddin has already invited muffy for mubhailaa, if muffy is so correct he must say labbaik and appear for mubhaila in front of Syedna Qutbuddin.
Even if Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin takes Holy Qur'an in his hand and vows, you all are not going to believe it.

So if I go with that logic, was KQ holding Holy Qur'an that day when he vowed about being the Dai

maddy
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:12 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#686

Unread post by maddy » Mon May 19, 2014 7:18 am

Eagerly Waiting for Video and Audio............. :?: :?:
Someone please upload ......................

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#687

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon May 19, 2014 7:57 am

true_bohra wrote: Even if Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin takes Holy Qur'an in his hand and vows, you all are not going to believe it. i
Has SMS done that yet ? not a difficult oath to take, why not do that too ! it will add to the pile of evidences !

Insensitivity with which kotharis take islamic principles and its followers on a ride, I doubt it will matter to conscience of SMS or SKQ to swear upon quran.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#688

Unread post by anajmi » Mon May 19, 2014 8:14 am

The irony of this entire situation is that the dead Al-Hayy and the living Al-Hayy are both supposed to be Ghaib Na Jannar and both of them missed this major issue the community is facing in their Jankari. And yet the abde jokers keep giving excuses.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#689

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon May 19, 2014 8:23 am

SMS is also capable of communicating with Late SMB, but, that will not be considered as valid proof in court of law !

When a simpleton bohra asks for evidence , accountability and transparency, kotharis will bark loud and cry munafekeen ! wherein now matters have gone to court of law, SMS and SKQ are dishing out evidences after evidences, such videos, audios, letters and diaries were supposedly private and arrogant kothar does not believe in accountability to its people, so felt no need to make them public. When commanded by outsiders they will bow and present the accounts like sheeps !

silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#690

Unread post by silvertongue » Mon May 19, 2014 8:47 am

Image

Why do I have a doubt that both are not the same person.... :?: :?: :?: