Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

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Sceptical
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#721

Unread post by Sceptical » Tue May 20, 2014 10:38 am

alam wrote:SMB was torn, with divided loyalties, and did Nass on two sahebs. That is the evidence that is glaringly becoming obvious. A highly inconvenient truth, for the ordinary Bohra.
With due respect to SMB, SKQ, SMS, and their respective positions, it's high time the rutba naa sahebs and their court holders and khidmat guzaars from ALL factions acknowledge that the betrayal is from SMB himself for not doing irrefutable Nass, rather than finger-pointing by either camp toward SKQ or SMS.
That's what I start thinking too. This is a difficult but plausible possibility.
Maybe STS(ra) had instructed SMB(ra) to do nass on KQ.
Maybe SMB(ra) did it in 1965.
Maybe he had slowly changed his mind.
Maybe that's why he didn't react enough when his mazoon was progressively and dangerously sidelined :?:
Last edited by Sceptical on Tue May 20, 2014 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#722

Unread post by Sufi monk » Tue May 20, 2014 10:43 am

Imam can be just one in one zamaan, why there cant be two dai in one zamaan? (just a thought I can never accept muffy as dai in any form lol)

as far as I know when Imam was zahir they use to have too many Dai at one time.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#723

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue May 20, 2014 10:48 am

I have a request for Adam who seems to be genuinely interested in removing doubts people may have about the alleged nass on SMS. Can you please post links to the nass audio and hospital video and the 18th Rajab shahadat that was shown/played in masjid. I am not quite sure where I stood in your categorization but I am still undecided. I was not so convinced by the hospital video when it was played in the masjid because it was grainy and quiet unclear and I did not even recognize Burhanuddin Moula. However many people I know have been somewhat more convinced by it and I'd like to view/hear a second time.
As far as your comment about my name - yes it was quite meant to say it all. I am quite unhappy about the state of affairs in Bohradom. However that is to be tackled separately after we first determine whether the nass on SMS was valid.

Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#724

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Tue May 20, 2014 10:50 am

Ummehani52 wrote:I think the words were "Ghanu mushkil laage Che..." From what I gather, it is because for all these years SMS has been doing salaam to QJ as his elder brother and all of a sudden, QJ was doing salaam to him... If you had an elder brother and you've paid your utmost to respect to him since your birth and all of a sudden he does salaam to you and bows his head down to you then it's expected to feel hard... Emotionally.
Who you kidding?
QJ and MS could not see eye to eye for many years. There was no love lost. Ask those who were involved in early stages of SBUT before Aqa Moula's stroke, what a power struggle there was. They have come together only for their convenience, because they both see SKQ as an arch enemy!

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#725

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue May 20, 2014 10:59 am

Another thing that bothered me in the hospital and Raudat Tahera video is the tentativeness of MS. Burhanuddin Moula always proudly and confidently took full reponsibility for our souls. MS claims the nass was revealed to him 4-5 years ago. One would imagine that the man had been preparing to be dai and leader of one million people for 4-5 years. His tentativeness shows that all this was a surprise to him. In Raudat Tahera his modesty seemed very phony especially more so after hearing his claim that Burhanuddin Moula did a silent nass on him by showing him the diary about 4-5 years ago. One would think that he would have started preparing his soul to lead the people for at least that period. Why all this show of modesty then...Nah...not getting convinced...please post those links. I will give it a little more consideration because I promised my wife.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#726

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Tue May 20, 2014 11:20 am

I think this war is over,
SKQ sahib is not responding to this video, their movement has come to a dead end, no more email updates, no more Q&A sessions are being broadcasted on their website regarding this whole london nuss video issue, they have accepted defeat i presume!

Truth-Prevails
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:02 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#727

Unread post by Truth-Prevails » Tue May 20, 2014 11:32 am

Brother Akhtiar,

Have patience. You want answers yesterday. This is a long and protracted battle and there will be ups and downs.

Truth-Prevails
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:02 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#728

Unread post by Truth-Prevails » Tue May 20, 2014 11:36 am

Just heard that the Solicitors representing Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin - Mulla and Mulla - specifically Eban Faizullabhoy have recused themselves from the case and are now not representing him in the Suit. Eban Faizullabhoy is a key confidante of Shz Qaid Johar bhaisab and the main law firm for SBUT with a Rs. 1.5 Cr retainer. Wonder what happened

This is getting murkier by the day

Truth-Prevails
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:02 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#729

Unread post by Truth-Prevails » Tue May 20, 2014 11:36 am

Just heard that the Solicitors representing Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin - Mulla and Mulla - specifically Eban Faizullabhoy have recused themselves from the case and are now not representing him in the Suit. Eban Faizullabhoy is a key confidante of Shz Qaid Johar bhaisab and the main law firm for SBUT with a Rs. 1.5 Cr retainer. Wonder what happened

This is getting murkier by the day

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#730

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue May 20, 2014 11:37 am

One other thing I noticed in the waaz....MS said the Burhanuddin Moula would come in our Qabr!! I thought the baton had been passed on to him! It seems as though he is just not ready to take on the responsibility. It is the dai us zaman who comes in your qabr, it would have to be him. But he does not want to take time off from his ayyashi to do his job. Big fail I think.....I am afraid I might have to break the bad news to the wife.

Sceptical
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#731

Unread post by Sceptical » Tue May 20, 2014 11:41 am

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:I think this war is over,
SKQ sahib is not responding to this video, their movement has come to a dead end, no more email updates, no more Q&A sessions are being broadcasted on their website regarding this whole london nuss video issue, they have accepted defeat i presume!
The video was shonw to the court last month. This has not prevented them put fatemidawat.com site up to date every week.
I think they have to take the time to respond carefully to this video because of the court case.

I am waiting too for an answer from them to make a definitive choice.

Akhtiar bhai, did you see the video?

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#732

Unread post by MMH » Tue May 20, 2014 11:41 am

What Truth prevails is saying to Akhtiar Wahid is exactly what I had in mind. You need to be patient. I am sure the video is being checked by the Qutbi side thoroughly and if they have to answer to so many people, it would be be best to come with results which are sound and genuine. I am sure this requires a lot of digging up to do to counter the video claims. Right now the odds are in MS's favour so its best to wait for a comprehensive explanation...

Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#733

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Tue May 20, 2014 11:43 am

After the London Nass Video it is more evident what happened about 1400 years back.
Aiyesha took advantage of Rasullulah's illness and gave raza for namaaz to awwal, today 85% Muslim believe that, similarly it is quite evident that shehzada's are taking advantage of their old fathers illness and making him read and do things he is possibly not cognative of. Just like Rasullulah was human so was Burhanuddin Moula, and his sons took advantage of his ill health to keep the power and money in their hands.

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#734

Unread post by alam » Tue May 20, 2014 11:46 am

Truth-Prevails wrote:Just heard that the Solicitors representing Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin - Mulla and Mulla - specifically Eban Faizullabhoy have recused themselves from the case and are now not representing him in the Suit. Eban Faizullabhoy is a key confidante of Shz Qaid Johar bhaisab and the main law firm for SBUT with a Rs. 1.5 Cr retainer. Wonder what happened

This is getting murkier by the day
Lawyers routinely get annoyed with clients for hiring them, then not following advice.

A) Violating gag order while court process is going on - by presenting these audio- video to masses -
B) Tampering with evidence - perhaps

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co

#735

Unread post by Sufi monk » Tue May 20, 2014 12:18 pm

Truth-Prevails wrote:Just heard that the Solicitors representing Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin - Mulla and Mulla - specifically Eban Faizullabhoy have recused themselves from the case and are now not representing him in the Suit. Eban Faizullabhoy is a key confidante of Shz Qaid Johar bhaisab and the main law firm for SBUT with a Rs. 1.5 Cr retainer. Wonder what happened

This is getting murkier by the day
they rescued them self to save their name and izzat.

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#736

Unread post by MMH » Tue May 20, 2014 12:50 pm

Truth-Prevails wrote:Just heard that the Solicitors representing Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin - Mulla and Mulla - specifically Eban Faizullabhoy have recused themselves from the case and are now not representing him in the Suit. Eban Faizullabhoy is a key confidante of Shz Qaid Johar bhaisab and the main law firm for SBUT with a Rs. 1.5 Cr retainer. Wonder what happened

This is getting murkier by the day

Truth prevails- are your sources reliable or this is just one of those high flung rumours that QJ b.s and SMS have parted ways or that there will a press conference by Dr. Moiz stating the London Nass never took place or that The new Mazoon is QJ...

All sorts of things happen on this forum..

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#737

Unread post by Adam » Tue May 20, 2014 2:28 pm

@kimanumanu
One question to you Adam:
When did you stop believing in the Mazoon?

Good question. But i'll rephrase.
I stopped believing in KQ as The Mazoon after the wafaat of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, when he openly contested the Rutba of the 53rd Dai, and he made his Dawedaari public. At that moment, he seized to remain a Mumin, let a lone the Mazoon.
The 53rd Dai Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin released him of his position as being a Mazoon. This was further clarified when the farmaan of the Dai was to remove his name from the Misaaq and Ruqu Chitti's.
That is my position of where it started. And in my opinion that should be what any Dawoodi Bohra Mumin should believe.
Whatever the Dai tells us, we will follow. The 52nd Dai said to accept him as The Mazoon, we said "yes". The 53rd Dai says he removed him from the position, we accept.

for starters, no where was it mentioned that Jafar us Saadiq b.s was present in London at the time of the Nass. How did he come up? I will come back to you with my issue with the entire nass episode, first answer me about Jaafar Us Saadiq b.s.


Correct. Jafar al Sadiq BS wasn't present during the Nass. If you had seen the video, he is seen in the hospital AFTER the Nass (when Syedna Mufaddal and Shz Qaid Johar came from Bonnam House). The story is the same. It's your understanding that is flawed.


@AgnosticIndian
Thanks for clearing your stance. Since you are neither a supporter of either parties, this doesn't concern you.

@UnhappyBohra
I don't have the video. Sorry. Maybe you can ask your Amil to see it again. In case you still doubt the Nass, you can always have alook at the video that has made public by the Qutbi Bohras. The words "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj" are clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9wG2Irv-Q
This should be enough for your to accept the truth.

Another thing that bothered me in the hospital and Raudat Tahera video is the tentativeness of MS. Burhanuddin Moula always proudly and confidently took full reponsibility for our souls. MS claims the nass was revealed to him 4-5 years ago. One would imagine that the man had been preparing to be dai and leader of one million people for 4-5 years. His tentativeness shows that all this was a surprise to him. In Raudat Tahera his modesty seemed very phony especially more so after hearing his claim that Burhanuddin Moula did a silent nass on him by showing him the diary about 4-5 years ago. One would think that he would have started preparing his soul to lead the people for at least that period. Why all this show of modesty then...Nah...not getting convinced...please post those links. I will give it a little more consideration because I promised my wife.


These are all secondary things, diverting from the Nass issue.
Do you accept that he was informed of the Nass, and knew about the Nass before hand? If yes, then half the issue is solved. It's just about accepting the truth.

In history, you will see that Moulana Ali AS was informed of the Nass in Mecca, even before the Hijrat to Madina. Yet, on many instances when Rasulullah referred to his Nass, he would express his modesty.
When Syedna ABdeali Saifuddin, the 43rd Dai did Nass on the 44th Syedna Mohammed Ezzuddin he repeatedly expressed his humility saying that he has much "qusoor".

Syedna Mufaddal's humility and modesty is nothing but what previous Imams and Duat have done. He is their perfect example. On the other hand, in KQ you can only see him talking about himself with arrogance. Obvious differences between the two.



@Haqq_Prevails
After the London Nass Video it is more evident what happened about 1400 years back.
Aiyesha took advantage of Rasullulah's illness and gave raza for namaaz to awwal, today 85% Muslim believe that, similarly it is quite evident that shehzada's are taking advantage of their old fathers illness and making him read and do things he is possibly not cognative of. Just like Rasullulah was human so was Burhanuddin Moula, and his sons took advantage of his ill health to keep the power and money in their hands.

This example has been quoted by KQ and his Qutbi Bohra children repeatedly, and it's clear you continue to hear it from them directly.
However, this example is flawed.
Yes, Rasulullah during his illness was taken for advantage. He tried to write the Nass document and Umar stopped him. Abu Bakr and Ayesha conducted Namaaz without his permission.
BUT AT NO POINT did Rasulullah do Nass on anyone other than Moulana Ali AS. No matter what they did, he said only what was true, and he said nothing "wrong".

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin has clearly documented and said the following words:
"Mufaddal Bhai ne Dawat na Rutba ma Qaim karu chu" - Audio
"Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu taaj" - Audi & Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9wG2Irv-Q

To claim that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin did Nass on the wrong person for any reason, is to believe that Rasulullah did Nass of Abu Bakr out of pressure.


Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#738

Unread post by Mazakyo » Tue May 20, 2014 2:29 pm

Sceptical wrote:
alam wrote:SMB was torn, with divided loyalties, and did Nass on two sahebs. That is the evidence that is glaringly becoming obvious. A highly inconvenient truth, for the ordinary Bohra.
With due respect to SMB, SKQ, SMS, and their respective positions, it's high time the rutba naa sahebs and their court holders and khidmat guzaars from ALL factions acknowledge that the betrayal is from SMB himself for not doing irrefutable Nass, rather than finger-pointing by either camp toward SKQ or SMS.
That's what I start thinking too. This is a difficult but plausible possibility.
Maybe STS(ra) had instructed SMB(ra) to do nass on KQ.
Maybe SMB(ra) did it in 1965.
Maybe he had slowly changed his mind.
Maybe that's why he didn't react enough when his mazoon was progressively and dangerously sidelined :?:

Scepti- I endorse your thinking.

Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#739

Unread post by Mazakyo » Tue May 20, 2014 2:38 pm

Quoted by Adam

The Video of 19th Rajab Raudat Tahera 1432H - clearly proves that Syedna was aware, he was giving salaami, looking at the crowd, seated on the floor near the Qabr, did ziyarat, gestured towards Syedna Mufaddal, placed his hand on his back, held the mic. Last but not least, he CLEARLY said the words "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj" (Min 26:50 to 27:10), and then later on he instantly says "Khuda Barakat apey", which shows his speech was clear.


Can only hear "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj". Maybe after that it was "Naheen pahnaoun" ????

Sceptical
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#740

Unread post by Sceptical » Tue May 20, 2014 2:55 pm

@ Adam bhai, about humility and arrogance, let's be more objective.
SMS said "mein laik nahi hoon". didn't he? As far I know, no previous Imam/Dai said such words.
I think you confuse "self-confidence" and "arrogance". SKQ is just saying that he is able to take the responsibility. STS(ra) and SMB(ra) themselves in many vaez did it.

I didn't hear "Muffaddal bhai ... nass nu taj" in Raudat Tahera video. Believe me, I tried many times to understand what SMB(ra) said.
Facts are here : in all video presented by SMS camp, SMB(ra) did not utter a single understandable word.
The timing used by SMS camp to show all those proofs let me confused. Why they kept Raudat Tahera video secret (shown only one time) until SKQ camp published it on Youtube?

Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#741

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Tue May 20, 2014 3:00 pm

Adam

You are nothing but a propaganda machine for MS and his cohorts who clearly took advantage of a sick Burhanuddin Moula.
You just do your propaganda in a manner which is sweet and palatable unlike some of the other paid Kotharis who are rude and jerks. But you are not fooling me. Burhanuddin Moula also never took any one else's name in the misaaq along with his for 50 years, but for his trusted Mazoon. Where as at the first opportunity MS introduced his own name in the misaaq adding a 4th rutba. Not only did they commit a sacrilegious act, but they fell on their faces because they made a mistake and had to correct it:
First version said "aa teen rutba na khao kasam ane kaho naam" then they would count 4 rutbas, and once they realized their folly they dropped the word 'teen" from the misaaq ibarat.
You and your kind never accepted the Mazoon in the first place, and hence have schemed for the last 50 years to get him removed, but you were not successful. Burhanuddin Moula very well knew who he could trust.
Our history is littered with sons who have betrayed Nabi's, Imam's and Duat's, these sons are no different, hungry for power and money!

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#742

Unread post by true_bohra » Tue May 20, 2014 3:11 pm

Haqq_Prevails wrote:After the London Nass Video it is more evident what happened about 1400 years back.
Aiyesha took advantage of Rasullulah's illness and gave raza for namaaz to awwal, today 85% Muslim believe that, similarly it is quite evident that shehzada's are taking advantage of their old fathers illness and making him read and do things he is possibly not cognative of. Just like Rasullulah was human so was Burhanuddin Moula, and his sons took advantage of his ill health to keep the power and money in their hands.
I can also relate the same thing with that of saqifa.

Even if I go with your version and presume things then why was KQ absent in approaching Syedna RA after his stroke. He could have come openly in Raudat Tahera and on many other occassions.

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#743

Unread post by kimanumanu » Tue May 20, 2014 3:18 pm

@Adam:

Why in the days following Moula (RA)'s wafaat, there were one after another speakers mentioning Mazoon's flaws? Did they also stop believing and suddenly remember these flaws after wafaat? Why weren't these flaws brought to light beforehand and why wasn't Mazoon removed? For a lifetime of a lot of people and some until they died, they were made to believe in him and even the misaaq mentioned his name. Nass was done since 1388 but Mansoos himself did not know whilst an ordinary person like Shk Yamani knew. How was this a secret when more than 2 people knew about it? What is the hikmat in hiding it from Mansoos when others knew about it? Why was misaq changed to include Mansoos after the stroke? If nass already happened then surely we should have been saying his name all the time and not after the stroke? What is the hikmat in this? Was Shk. Yamani and the other witnesses and the 2 shahzadas more aala than the rest of us mumineen? What gave them the honour of knowing this "secret" that was kept even from the Mansoos himself?

maxthemature
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#744

Unread post by maxthemature » Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

bhai truebhora
now even if burhanuddin aqa ra from the kabar wakes up and call individually and say syedna muffadal saifuddin is true haq na dai and haq will never end till qayamat some of the senseless reformist or qutbis wont accept it........ its just the case of nas by rasool on molana ali and then the whole 3 shayateen awwal salees saani episode!
the clan and soul and the very reason of comin to this world for these people is slightly different and sadly this is how it will end for all non believers of shariyat and haq!
we are quite happy that this kachro is out of our community and just barking here day and night

muffadal molas tawazo,selflessness and his love for burhanuddin aqa ra makes him say what he says and relates everything towards 52nd! in the years to come ppl wud see how mola tus carries our community to even furthur glory and progress! enemies like in( previous dai and imams zamaan including syedna qutbuddin shaheed molas time) will keep burning here and in life here after and this is quite inevitable!!
oh yesss untill the name of this website is changed to regressive dawoodi bhoras or sunniwahabi.com lot of people will confront sum of the foolish comments posted here! completely laughable even if u educate urself 2 percent.... let alone 100!

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#745

Unread post by true_bohra » Tue May 20, 2014 3:28 pm

@kimanumanu
- firstly tell me do you believe in misaaq and are you completely adhered to it??
-mazoons flaws never came out after death of Syedna ra, infact Syedna Ra himself said in 1408 that bhai se galti thai che.
- removal of mazoon is completely under Dai's discretion.
- shk yamani was no ordinary man, he was a person of great stature and a confidant of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA and Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA
- Syedna RA himself gave that honour to them to know about the secret.

Haqq_Prevails
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#746

Unread post by Haqq_Prevails » Tue May 20, 2014 3:30 pm

true_bohra wrote:
Haqq_Prevails wrote:After the London Nass Video it is more evident what happened about 1400 years back.
Aiyesha took advantage of Rasullulah's illness and gave raza for namaaz to awwal, today 85% Muslim believe that, similarly it is quite evident that shehzada's are taking advantage of their old fathers illness and making him read and do things he is possibly not cognative of. Just like Rasullulah was human so was Burhanuddin Moula, and his sons took advantage of his ill health to keep the power and money in their hands.
I can also relate the same thing with that of saqifa.

Even if I go with your version and presume things then why was KQ absent in approaching Syedna RA after his stroke. He could have come openly in Raudat Tahera and on many other occassions.
Clicked the wrong Button, ofcourse did not mean to like your comment!
It is very likely that SKQ tried to approach Burhanuddin Moula in private but the Shehzada's never allowed that. I know of one instance when Malik bs prevented SKQ from meeting moula. Of course SKQ was not going to confront Moula in public and do be-hurmati, especially given the ill health of Aqa Moula.

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#747

Unread post by kimanumanu » Tue May 20, 2014 4:45 pm

@true_bohra

Yes I believe in misaq and I try to adhere as much as humanly possible. Surely you agree that stature of the next Dai is above that of the witnesses? Regarding Mazoon, the sad thing is that what has happened was foretold years before:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100312002 ... a/id2.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20100312003 ... index.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20100310090 ... a/id3.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20030307023 ... batin.com/

So if all this was "public" knowledge, why the secrecy?

seeker110
Posts: 1727
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#748

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue May 20, 2014 4:53 pm

Perfect case of two cats fighting and the monkey (courts and politicians) gets the roti.

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#749

Unread post by MMH » Tue May 20, 2014 5:11 pm

true_bohra wrote:@kimanumanu
- firstly tell me do you believe in misaaq and are you completely adhered to it??
-mazoons flaws never came out after death of Syedna ra, infact Syedna Ra himself said in 1408 that bhai se galti thai che.
- removal of mazoon is completely under Dai's discretion.
- shk yamani was no ordinary man, he was a person of great stature and a confidant of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA and Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA
- Syedna RA himself gave that honour to them to know about the secret.
Aqa moula did not say bhai si galti (mistake)thai gayi che. He said qutbudin bhai ne galatfahmi thai (misunderstanding). He also said that qutbuddin bhai ne takleef uthavi padi. Dont misconstrue!

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: London hostpital nass video and audio

#750

Unread post by MMH » Tue May 20, 2014 5:15 pm

Adam wrote:@kimanumanu
One question to you Adam:
When did you stop believing in the Mazoon?

Good question. But i'll rephrase.
I stopped believing in KQ as The Mazoon after the wafaat of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, when he openly contested the Rutba of the 53rd Dai, and he made his Dawedaari public. At that moment, he seized to remain a Mumin, let a lone the Mazoon.
The 53rd Dai Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin released him of his position as being a Mazoon. This was further clarified when the farmaan of the Dai was to remove his name from the Misaaq and Ruqu Chitti's.
That is my position of where it started. And in my opinion that should be what any Dawoodi Bohra Mumin should believe.
Whatever the Dai tells us, we will follow. The 52nd Dai said to accept him as The Mazoon, we said "yes". The 53rd Dai says he removed him from the position, we accept.

for starters, no where was it mentioned that Jafar us Saadiq b.s was present in London at the time of the Nass. How did he come up? I will come back to you with my issue with the entire nass episode, first answer me about Jaafar Us Saadiq b.s.


Correct. Jafar al Sadiq BS wasn't present during the Nass. If you had seen the video, he is seen in the hospital AFTER the Nass (when Syedna Mufaddal and Shz Qaid Johar came from Bonnam House). The story is the same. It's your understanding that is flawed.

He was never mentioned after the nass happened either. My understanding is flawed...kq's testimony is flawed. I think you are the flawed propaganda machinery of the mufadali clan!





@AgnosticIndian
Thanks for clearing your stance. Since you are neither a supporter of either parties, this doesn't concern you.

@UnhappyBohra
I don't have the video. Sorry. Maybe you can ask your Amil to see it again. In case you still doubt the Nass, you can always have alook at the video that has made public by the Qutbi Bohras. The words "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj" are clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9wG2Irv-Q
This should be enough for your to accept the truth.

Another thing that bothered me in the hospital and Raudat Tahera video is the tentativeness of MS. Burhanuddin Moula always proudly and confidently took full reponsibility for our souls. MS claims the nass was revealed to him 4-5 years ago. One would imagine that the man had been preparing to be dai and leader of one million people for 4-5 years. His tentativeness shows that all this was a surprise to him. In Raudat Tahera his modesty seemed very phony especially more so after hearing his claim that Burhanuddin Moula did a silent nass on him by showing him the diary about 4-5 years ago. One would think that he would have started preparing his soul to lead the people for at least that period. Why all this show of modesty then...Nah...not getting convinced...please post those links. I will give it a little more consideration because I promised my wife.


These are all secondary things, diverting from the Nass issue.
Do you accept that he was informed of the Nass, and knew about the Nass before hand? If yes, then half the issue is solved. It's just about accepting the truth.

In history, you will see that Moulana Ali AS was informed of the Nass in Mecca, even before the Hijrat to Madina. Yet, on many instances when Rasulullah referred to his Nass, he would express his modesty.
When Syedna ABdeali Saifuddin, the 43rd Dai did Nass on the 44th Syedna Mohammed Ezzuddin he repeatedly expressed his humility saying that he has much "qusoor".

Syedna Mufaddal's humility and modesty is nothing but what previous Imams and Duat have done. He is their perfect example. On the other hand, in KQ you can only see him talking about himself with arrogance. Obvious differences between the two.



@Haqq_Prevails
After the London Nass Video it is more evident what happened about 1400 years back.
Aiyesha took advantage of Rasullulah's illness and gave raza for namaaz to awwal, today 85% Muslim believe that, similarly it is quite evident that shehzada's are taking advantage of their old fathers illness and making him read and do things he is possibly not cognative of. Just like Rasullulah was human so was Burhanuddin Moula, and his sons took advantage of his ill health to keep the power and money in their hands.

This example has been quoted by KQ and his Qutbi Bohra children repeatedly, and it's clear you continue to hear it from them directly.
However, this example is flawed.
Yes, Rasulullah during his illness was taken for advantage. He tried to write the Nass document and Umar stopped him. Abu Bakr and Ayesha conducted Namaaz without his permission.
BUT AT NO POINT did Rasulullah do Nass on anyone other than Moulana Ali AS. No matter what they did, he said only what was true, and he said nothing "wrong".

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin has clearly documented and said the following words:
"Mufaddal Bhai ne Dawat na Rutba ma Qaim karu chu" - Audio
"Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu taaj" - Audi & Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9wG2Irv-Q

To claim that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin did Nass on the wrong person for any reason, is to believe that Rasulullah did Nass of Abu Bakr out of pressure.