Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 626
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1771

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:23 am

GM bhai,

Where is the secret witness that you are talking about? In today's newspaper SKQ mentions 2 witnesses who have both passed away - Syedi Saleh BS and Amatullah Aai saheba.

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mumbai/othe ... 089752.cms

------------------------ Part of the mumbai mirror article --------

On Tuesday, he told the court that Syedna had explained his decision not to make public Qutbuddin's anointment as the successor to Qutbuddin's uncle, Syedi Saleh. Syedna told Saleh "talwaro chal jati" had he made the decision public, Qutbuddin claimed.

Saleh was the third in command at the time, while Qutbuddin was the second.

Senior advocate Iqbal Chagla, who is representing Saifuddin, asked Qutbuddin if Saleh and other people knew about the "nass".

Qutbuddin said that he believed that Saleh and one Musab Amatullah Aaisaheb knew about the development. Qutbuddin told the court that the way certain people respected him, he thought they, too, were aware of the anointment.

Syedna's half-brother, in his deposition before Justice Gautam Patel, revealed details of a rift within the first family. He said that in the early 1960s, his elder step-brother, Yusuf Nijamuddin, told him that he was "very jealous of him as he had attained such a high position at such a young age".

"Yusuf bhai was scheming against me from that time... Yusuf bhai influenced His Holiness's family, including the defendant [Saifuddin] and his brother."

Qutbuddin claimed that Saifuddin's three brothers, Yusuf's two brothers and children were also all involved in the alleged ploy against him.

Qutbuddin also told the court there had been attempts to his life in the past. One time, he was attacked by a group of men in Indore, where he was supposed to give sermons during Muharram.

He could not recall the year of the incident, but indicated that underworld elements were involved.

In another incident, shots were fired at a car that was part of Qutbuddin's convoy. One person was killed.

Qutbuddin said that he was the intended target. When asked if believed that Saifuddin and his brothers were involved in the attack, he said: "I do not know." MMB

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1772

Unread post by New » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:54 am

Is Muffy going to take the stand for cross examination? If the plaintiff calls him then what excuse would he have? Would he say that the Nuss happened to him at Cromwell followed by at Raudet Tahera. Then what are the proofs?

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1008
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1773

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:24 am

i have noticed something unusual recently
whenever there is farmaan from vazara or any shz, they signed as abde sayedna tus
this is a common norm for everybody.
but recently i have seen a couple of letters from shz and one from husena ben saheb signed as abde mufaddal bhai saheb
even the its letter from qaidjohar bs was signed as abde walado jamia
is it not strange? or it is me only who is finding this strange? is there something more to it than meets the eye?

HighFlyer
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:38 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1774

Unread post by HighFlyer » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:32 am

Do they video record every thing in court?

thesource
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:26 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1775

Unread post by thesource » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:09 am

the best part of yesterday ms s claim that u have no witness proved wrong as moula said that I myself is the witness. and khuda nu karvanu Jo ke this question was asked after the question what exactly is the duty of the mazoon to which moula replied that dai and mazoon r first two people they give orders, title s , ilm, guidance, etc etc to the entire community starting from mukasir till last bohra born till date. now the second in command when says ke hu witness choo to the person doubting it is not a mumin otherwise tomorrow they will tell moula ke jannat maa lai jaaso ehna 2 guarantor laavo. we have to take his word without doubting. and before the duty question the question asked was the rutbas of dawoodi bohra when the imam is in seclusion. to which the reply was dai al mutlak, mazoon al mutlak , and mukasir. BAS no mention of mansoos or be moula. and qaid joher, ammar, aliasgar,Moiz, Hussain(ms no chokro) and others were silent spectators. koi naa ma dum nohto uthi ne ms nu naam levaanu. chup chaap suni rahya hata. now they have no choice but to do ikraar that they were not happy with moulas mazoon and by doing that they will start challenging the 51 st and 52nd dai also ane ahista ahista ughaara thai jaase.

dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1776

Unread post by dawedaar » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:43 am

What happened in court today (29/4) ???

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1777

Unread post by kimanumanu » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:00 am

When SMS proclaimed during last Ashara waaz that ex-Mazoon was a dushman for last 25 years it pretty much laid it out that he did not believe in him or his rutba. Which of course begged the question of what misaq he was taking different from everyone. And if he wasn't taking misaq then what does that make him?

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1778

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:20 am

MS and Company are very shrewd and clever people, these people will devise a method to manipulate bohras more and more, but will make sure that the power remains in their hand as it is right now.
This case might be in the worlds eye a victory for SKQ saheb but SKQ saheb will never be able to garner that support and sympathy from people which he rightfully deserves.
People are brainwashed till such an extent that everything even good or bad SKQ saheb does, he is still a forbidden part of their life which they do not want to talk about or discuss anymore.

I pray this case brings out the truth of this whole drama which is happening in the royal family and who ever is rightful comes victorious on the forefront and gets the ruling power as deserved.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1779

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:01 pm

kimanumanu wrote:When SMS proclaimed during last Ashara waaz that ex-Mazoon was a dushman for last 25 years it pretty much laid it out that he did not believe in him or his rutba. Which of course begged the question of what misaq he was taking different from everyone. And if he wasn't taking misaq then what does that make him?
Don't you understand, the venom was injected by Yousuf Najmuddin in the blood of these young sons of SMB (RA), He in their eyes i think was the rightful Mazoon of SMB(RA) and he was successful in convincing these young lads that STS (RA) had to make SKQ saheb Mazoon due to pressurization of SKQ saheb's mother.

It is all well planned and strategically controlled by the sons of Yousuf Najmuddin till date to keep these sons of SMB(RA) in dark.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1780

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:01 pm

Court battle lays bare inner intrigues of Bohras' priestly family

The uncle versus nephew fight for the spiritual leadership of the Dawoodi Bohras enters the court-room, spilling family secrets and exposing the divide in the community. Jyoti Punwani reports.

Jealousy and intrigue, attacks and assassination attempts -- the closed and highly exclusive world of the powerful ruling priestly family of the Dawoodi Bohras lay exposed on Tuesday in a Mumbai courtroom, reminding one of the intrigues of the Mughal empire.

The Bombay high court’s majestic Central Court where Lokmanya Tilak had argued for Swarajya, formed a fitting backdrop to the story which unfolded during the cross-examination of Khuzaima Qutbuddin, (image, left), the 74-year-old brother of the late Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin, the 52nd Dai or spiritual head of the Dawood Bohra community. The cross-examination was conducted by Iqbal Chagla.

The Syedna died on January 17, 2014, and his son Mufaddal Saifuddin took over as the next Syedna. Qutbuddin has challenged this ascension, claiming that he himself is entitled to that position.

While he admitted that none of his 12 brothers and eight sisters, all children of the 51stDai, had acknowledged openly his claim of being the successor to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin, Qutbuddin maintained that he had been conferred the nass (ie, officially anointed) by the former on December 10, 1965 -- in secret. He was the only witness to this, he said.

He had not asked the Syedna why this event should be kept a secret, said Qutbuddin; he had simply obeyed the Syedna’s request that it should. But his uncle had asked the Syedna why the nass was not being made public. “Talwaaro chali jaasey” (swords will be unleashed), was the reply given to him, revealed Qutbuddin.

But weapons deadlier than swords figured in Qutbuddin’s testimony.

Referring to attempts at eliminating/assassinating him, Qutbuddin described two incidents without giving a date to either. The first was in Indore during Muharram, the second in Yemen. While in Indore there was an attempt to physically attack him, in Yemen, firing had taken place on a car in which one person had died.

Qutbuddin said he had been expected to travel along with that car, but he had changed his plan at the last minute. “I believe that it had been arranged to block my car and open fire on it. Since I had stayed behind, it was the persons in the second car who were attacked,” he said.

According to Qutbuddin, he had been the object of jealousy from way back in 1961-62, due to the position of respect he held in the community. Yusuf Najmuddin Bhaisaheb, his half-brother, who had been 20 years senior to him, had felt slighted, revealed Qutbuddin, and had actually told the latter he felt jealous of him. Said Qutbuddin: “Najmuddin told me that I had attained such a high position at such a young age that he was very jealous of me.”

From that time on, said Qutbuddin, Najmuddin started scheming against him.

Thereafter, a few years after the late Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin took over, Najmuddin influenced the Syedna’s family against him as well, including his son Mufaddal Saifuddin (the current Syedna). Saifuddin is Najmuddin’s son-in-law, he pointed out.

In the ’80s, Mufaddal Saifuddin (seen on the left with Prime Minister Narendra Modi) and his brothers joined Najmuddin in scheming against him, said Qutbuddin. Together, they succeeded to a certain extent in maligning him in the eyes of the community. In fact, some “well-positioned members of the community, prominent businessmen” had personally told Qutbuddin that Najmuddin had poisoned their minds against him.

Najmuddin passed away in 1987 in Cairo; Qutbuddin did not attend his funeral as he was in Burhanpur then, he said.

Yet, despite the scheming and the secret nass, the respect that he was accorded by many, including his uncle, who was third in the Dawoodi Bohra hierarchy (Qutbuddin was second), made him believe that many persons knew he had been anointed successor.

Qutbuddin said this could have been because of the favours that the late Syedna had showered upon him. Indeed, while appointing him Mazoon (second in the hierarchy after the Dai), the late Syedna had said in his sermon: “You are a beloved son.” “This carried the meaning that I was more than a Mazoon, I was his successor,” said Qutbuddin.

To a question whether he believed the current Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin too knew that he had been conferred the nass, Qutbuddin replied, “I think so.”

The intense rivalries and intrigues were not the only facet of the priestly family that were laid bare in court. The absolute authority over the community enjoyed by the Syedna and his second-in-command, the Mazoon, were also described in their full glory.

The frail-looking Qutbuddin, who had to be helped into and out of his chair, held forth in firm, ringing tones on the position of Mazoon, which he had held.

“The Dai and the Mazoon together guide the community. They are the fountains of spiritual knowledge of the community, the only two ranks referred to in this manner. Both are the only ones who spread spiritual knowledge. They have the right to decide what spiritual knowledge is to be disseminated and from what text. They are the two who give knowledge to teachers and students seeking higher religious knowledge.”

It was the duty of the Mazoon to protect the Dai, and the veracity of the Mazoon, said Qutbuddin, was “beyond doubt.”

It is rarely that a Syedna or anyone close to him in hierarchy comes to court. When Qutbuddin, who one section of the community believes is the 53rd Dai, and who is the splitting image of his late brother, entered the court, many of his followers kissed his hand. Before he could sit on one of the cushioned chairs, his followers spread a white and green printed quilt on the chair, repeating the same before he took the witness’s chair.

A footstool was provided for him as he deposed. During breaks in the cross-examination, his followers knelt before him, listening to his instructions.

“How shall I address the plaintiff?” Justice Gautam Patel asked Qutbuddin’s legal team, led by advocates Ravi Kadam and Anand Desai. “I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.” “As the plaintiff,” replied Advocate Kadam. Plainly uncomfortable with addressing him as ‘Plaintiff’ or ‘Mr Qutbuddin’, the judge did not use any term to address him.

However, none of this affected the majesty of the law. Finding the plaintiff repeatedly evading a direct reply to a question regarding the names of persons of “higher spiritual learning” in the community, the judge told him: “You’ve come to my court. Be under no misapprehension… The other side is entitled to ask you what you mean. Do you mean yes or no? The witness is directed to answer the question.”

But perhaps the one time the saying ‘Howsoever high may you be, the law is above you’ came to life was when the court clerk, after administering oath to Qutbuddin, and asking him his name, asked, as is the rule: “What’s your occupation?”

The surprise on the face of Khuzaima Qutbuddin, claimant to the position of the supreme head of the Dawoodi Bohra community, and the hushed embarrassed titter that swept the room, will not be forgotten for a long time.

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/cour ... 150428.htm

HighFlyer
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:38 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1781

Unread post by HighFlyer » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:17 pm

I liked the pic in article, KQ is in namaz while muffy chor is with modi thug..... :lol:

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1782

Unread post by kimanumanu » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:03 am

Next hearing on 15th June according to court website.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1783

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:18 am

But perhaps the one time the saying ‘Howsoever high may you be, the law is above you’ came to life was when the court clerk, after administering oath to Qutbuddin, and asking him his name, asked, as is the rule: “What’s your occupation?” The surprise on the face of Khuzaima Qutbuddin, claimant to the position of the supreme head of the Dawoodi Bohra community, and the hushed embarrassed titter that swept the room, will not be forgotten for a long time.
What was SKQ’s answer to that Question on occupation ?

Maqbool
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1784

Unread post by Maqbool » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:18 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:i have noticed something unusual recently
whenever there is farmaan from vazara or any shz, they signed as abde sayedna tus
this is a common norm for everybody.
but recently i have seen a couple of letters from shz and one from husena ben saheb signed as abde mufaddal bhai saheb
even the its letter from qaidjohar bs was signed as abde walado jamia
is it not strange? or it is me only who is finding this strange? is there something more to it than meets the eye?
May be it is because Muffaadal BS is not giving loot share to this all, and to be specific they are writing at the end ab de (now give) Muffaddal bhai saheb

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1785

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:34 am

whats your occupation?!

SKQ saheb - Humanitarian!

Muffadal Saifuddin - Conman my Lord!

Biradar
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1786

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:05 pm

The outcome of the court case will be completely irrelevant. Those who follow the con-man Dawedar Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin (DMMS) (LA) will continue to do so. Dadhis will get longer, bellies bigger and minds emptier. No change there. Followers of S. Qutbuddin will remain a few in number. It is very likely that the communities will diverge significantly. The followers of Iblisi Dawaat will become more and more fanatic, handing over all their remaining autonomy to DMMS, while the followers of Dawaat al-Haq will become liberal, forward looking, highly educated, modeled after the brotherhood of the Ikwan as-Safa.

Now, what the court case will do, I think, is open up the use of the community properties to both parties. That is the best one can hope for.

As to the specifics of the drama. Many people here, including me, have repeatedly pointed out that the roots of this infernal mischief were laid by Yusuf Najmudin (LA) and watered by jealousy. YN could not stand that his younger brother, 20 years his junior, was made mazoon. In fact, the jealousy probably started during the life-time of STS (RA) himself, as is clear that STS (RA) had a lot of love and affection for S. Qutbuddin. It is also likely, that STS (RA) had instructed SMB (RA) to appoint him as mazoon and mansoos.

When SMB (RA) came to power, YN (LA) schemed to take over the administrative machinery of the dawaat. He did this in two ways. First, by forcing the da'i's immediate family to take over amaalat and administrative jobs. Second, by subverting the institution of the Jaamia. I think the Progressive Movement, ironically, was partly responsible. Like a menacing "Other", the Progressives gave the ammunition which YN (LA) needed to tighten the screws. So, instead of achieving "progress", the Progressive movement gave an opportunity to the dawaat administration to make Bohras even more regressive.

A contributing factor was that S. Qutbuddin by nature is a quiet and does not assert himself. This could partly be because he is the youngest and was used to being bossed around by his uncles and then his brothers. Also, as is more and more evident, he was influenced, probably very early, by the concept of brotherhood and syncretism in the Ikhwan as-Safa. To him, this fanaticism was contrary to the spirit of mutual love and understanding, seeking of knowledge and giving mutual help as espoused in the Rasail. YN (LA) knew this submissive nature of S. Qutbuddin, and knew he would not do much to oppose this nefarious plans. So he got to work. One by one, he took over the dawaat administration, and then started to turn the children of SMB (RA) against the mazoon. Which, in itself if enough to disqualify DMMS (LA) as the da'i, as he openly disobeyed his own father, and in secret turned many people to believe in this own Iblisi ideas.

YN (LA) worked relentless to undermine the position of the mazoon and the mukasir. The children of SMB (RA) openly laughed at the aging mukasir, Seydi Saleh bhaisabeb. YN (LA) made sure that Saleh bhaisaheb was put in his place, and knew who the real boss was. The incident of humiliating him for the supposed faults of mumineen of Bombay is well known. Also, Saleh bhaisaheb knew of the nass on S. Qutbuddin and probably told many people about it, trying to prevent them from doing iblisi actions against the future da'i.

Once the position of mukasir was destroyed, they went after the mazoon. This is all well known. Pointless rehashing it here. The end result was total sidelining of the mazoon and mukasir, and rise in the power of the shehzadas. Politics at this point became supreme, and spirituality became, as Marx put it, opium of the masses, to be used to put the common bohra to sleep while these daylight robbers staged a coup.

Eventually, the situation was so dire that even SMB (RA) was just a puppet in their hands. They made access to him impossible, and all information from and to him was controlled by his children and his personal physician, Dr. Moiz (LA). The whole conspiracy against the mazoon and mukasir was done in secret, but, unfortunately for them, Taizoon Shakir opened a can of worms with his zahirbatin website. In that, we clearly see that DMMS (LA) says that the mukasir is reading so-and-so book (referring to Hussain bhaisaheb) to make himself look big. Now, DMMS (LA) has appointed this same person, Hussain, his new mazoon! I mean, how wicked and evil can this DMMS (LA) get? And, how stupid and senseless can the bohras be to not see this obvious political machinations by DMMS (LA)?

The so-called Africa episode was pre-planned attempt to discredit the mazoon in front of SMB (RA). They thought that just like Syedi Najam Khan, on machinations of his enemies, was removed from the post of mazoon, so would SMB (RA) removed S. Qutbuddin. However, as a huge slap on their face, SMB (RA) did nothing. He not only kept S. Qutbuddin as the mazoon, but continued to say on how important the position of the mazoon was, and kept sending him in his stead for namaaz and kept giving him honors.

Incidentally, Syedi Najam Khan has great honor in the dawaat history. He obeyed unconditionally, and let the matter take its own course. Then, when the da'i uncovered the machinations of S. Najam Khan's enemies, he was about to reappoint him as his mazoon. But, as fate would have it, S. Najam Khan passed away.

However, the damage had been done already. The infernal roots which were Yusuf Najmuddin (LA) had now yielded the infernal flower, Muffadul Saifuddin (LA). When SMB (RA) fell sick in the early 2000s they had already made plans for announcing nass on DMMS (LA) if anything happened to SMB (RA). We can see this in the vague pronouncements by DMMS (LA) on how SMB (RA) had told him about the nass, for example. However, providentially, and in a delicious irony, DMMS (LA) while sitting on the takhat, himself said that he does not remember the exact date! I mean, here is the most important date in his life, and, like a bumbling idiot, he forgets it!

The incidents after the brain stoke are well known. The Iblisi toli did not think that SMB (RA) would live for more than a few days, and so made a hasty pronouncement. However, SMB (RA) lived for two more years. During this time DMMS (RA) made a right fool of himself. His foot-in-mouth disease was revealed early on. The whole fiasco of openly tattling on people and humiliating them for small vices became a notorious stain on the community. His stupid pronouncements on education have become (in)famous. Then, we all saw with our own eyes on how he stuffed his father's mouth with false teeth, pumped him up with drugs and paraded him in front of fanatical bohras so he could earn legitimacy. We saw how he manipulated the misaaq text. We saw how he pushed his father on the takhat, forcing him to perform sajda, when the poor old father could hardly sit straight. Just for his behavior of two years, DMMS (LA) has earned himself a spot deep in the hottest part of hell. And may he remain there for eternity.

Now, more than a year later, DMMS (LA) has turned the bohras into a burping, junglee dadhi waving, mola mola singing, funny hat wearing, bunch of idiots. He has succeeded, and now the infernal tree has dead branches, laden with rotten leaves, which will soon fall, be swept away and burned. All for the petty jealousy of Yusuf Najmuddin (LA)! Just like the pride and jealousy of Iblis caused his fall, and the decent and creation of the world of buka, so has the jealousy of YN (LA) caused this unforeseen calamity.

However, those who see, will continue to see. Court cases won't make much different in their spiritual beliefs, but perhaps make it a little simpler to access community properties and resources. Otherwise, the die has now been cast, and things will go the way they will. No judge in court can make any difference at this point.

Biradar
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1787

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:09 pm

I humbly request my friends here to send my writeup above to as many people as possible via Whatsapp, email, etc. If you can believe it, in this day and age, I still don't have a smart phone, and would not know how to use one either. I request that this brief synopsis, and others which are found here, need to be circulated more widely. I understand that one can say something is a "forward" from someone else. You don't need to take responsibility for this, but spread this, and other information on this website is important. We need to expose the Iblisi toli for what it is.

Eventually, I will compile a set of essays (not mine, but based on contributions here) and put it up publicly. For now, we must not allow these daylight robbers to take away from us our rich history, our autonomy and our brains.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1788

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:29 pm

Bro biradar,

A very well compiled post by you !

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1789

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:48 pm

I reproduce below an article written by me on 14th Feb 2014 (Almost 1 year back), the substance of which has become the MAIN issue in this court case. This is to refresh the memories of old members and provide an insight to the new members :-

The "Fitnah" Behind The Present Turmoil In Bohra Community.

It is imperative to know the CAUSE of the ongoing war between factions of the 2 camps of Saifee Mahal which has created unprecedented chaos, mayhem and confusion in the once peaceful Bohra community. This has not happened all of a sudden but it is the result of a careful and systemic planning which started many years ago, this is the result of a great “Fitnah” created by Late Yusuf Najmuddin (YN) decades ago. YN was the son of Taher Saifuddin saab (ST) (He had 4 wives and 24 children) and the half brother of Burhanuddin saab (MB) as well as Khuzema Qutbuddin saab (KQ). He was the MOST arrogant, ruthless, cunning and calculative man who played his cards extremely well, he was also the MOST powerful man in Saifee Mahal during Burhanuddin saab’s era. It was a known fact that all major decisions were taken by him and Burhanuddin saab was just like a rubber stamp who endorsed all his decisions as no one had the might to take him head on. He was also responsible for once slapping MB, a matter which had then become the talk of the town.

YN was always eyeing for the post of ‘Mazoon’ which was denied to him as per instructions of his father, ST who had endorsed KQ’s name for the same. This angered YN no end and he made it his mission to teach KQ a lesson and at the same time settle scores with MB for denying him what he felt was his birth right. He took control of virtually all the main lucrative branches of Kothar and gained undue importance. He was also responsible for siphoning off a large sum of money collected for some fanciful scheme (Scam) from rich bohras staying in Lahore/Karachi which was then a part of the Indian state. It so happened that India got independence in 1947 due to which bohras living in parts which then became Pakistan were in no position to claim the amount as it was under the control of the Indian part of dawat headed by YN. He also became the rector of jamea Saifiyah which trained the future amils who were totally under his control.

The Mohurrum tamashas are the brainchild of YN who first “experimented” it in the 80s when he organised Mohurrum vayez in Cairo, Egypt. This was the first overseas vayez ever held by any Dai. The response to this scheme was overwhelming as thousands of bohras flocked to Cairo and seeing this, YN and other Saifee Mahal mafias sensed a very lucrative business in Mohurrum tamashas which then became a routine affair. YN was a very smart businessman who too wanted to encash upon this business and for which he planned to make Cairo another major hub of Bohraism and planned to settle bohras there and for which he wanted to construct huge housing complexes in Cairo. He entered into business deals with Egyptian land mafias which turned sour and due to which he was ultimately murdered although Kothar managed to hush up the whole incident and claimed that he died a natural death. His death was under suspicious circumstances which was also reported in local newspapers. His body was not brought back to India but was ultimately buried in Cairo.

As part of his hidden agenda, YN also saw to it that the sons (Shehzadas) of MB didn’t pursue much education, especially Islamic and for which he engaged them in all sorts of luxuries like outings at various countries, Shikars and other ayyashis which were the prerogative of maharajas. The sons enjoyed these activities and also helped YN in keeping them away from day to day affairs and taking full control over dawat. He himself was the co-owner of Hotel Ambassador at Churchgate, Mumbai which had a full fledged bar which was then sold to the famous antique smuggler Manu Narang. He used to visit the hotel often for “Relaxing” and had a permanent suite booked in which he had his share of rendezvous.

To penetrate further into the workings of dawat and to keep a hold over its treasures, he got his daughter Jawharat u sharaf married to MB’s son Mufaddal Saifuddin. His daughter has inherited her father’s genes as she too is known for her arrogance and high handedness just like her brothers Syedul Kher and Badrul Jamali who are ace extortionists and very powerful even now. MB was actually very keen in getting his son Mufaddal Saifuddin married to KQ’s daughter which he finally did but only after Mufaddal Saifuddin was already married to YN’s daughter. This irked YN’s family no end as they realised that KQ could now become more powerful and their evil plans would be jeorpardised so Jawharat u sharaf saw to it that her husband divorced Safia, daughter of KQ within just 3 to 4 months of their marriage. This also helped YN and his family in straining the ties between KQ and MB’s family which resulted in KQ and MB’s sons slowly drifting apart.

KQ was systematically sidelined by MB’s sons under the guidance and pressure of YN’s daughter Jawharat u sharaf and her brothers Kher and Badrul Jamali. Their vice like grip over MB’s sons and their abuse of power can be seen from the fact that when Kher was the amil of Surat he even went to the extent of orchestrating a physical attack on KQ in Surat. Although a person holding the second highest rutba (Mazun) was physically attacked by a local amil but NO action was taken against him, such is the hold and grip of YN’s family over the sons of MB. Even as soon as MB became indisposed, his sons saw to it that KQ was not given any importance as all amils were instructed to neglect him which can be observed from the recent visits of KQ to various cities when no sooner did KQ express his desire to visit a city, the local amil made it a point to disappear to Mumbai 2/3 days prior to the visit.

Hence, YN atlast succeeded in his evil designs of creating an unending rift between the 2 factions, the brunt of which is now borne by average bohras who are standing at crossroads as everyday some new crap is served to them highlighting the alleged good of MS and the alleged evils of KQ. The brain washing sessions have helped Muffy in erasing from the memory of Bohras, especially the elders, the Fitnah created by his father-in-law Yusuf Najmuddin, which is the MAIN cause of the sad present day state of affairs in the community. They even refuse to analyse a simple fact that the late MB had personally solemnised the marriages of not only one but 4 daughters of KQ who were married to his own sons and grandchildren. If at all KQ was an evil as is made out by Muffy gang and YN family then why would the 52nd Dai get his own siblings married to KQ’s daughters ? The fact remains that there was NEVER any enmity between KQ and MB but the seeds of hatred were sown by YN and his family over a period of time and Muffy and gang fell prey to its evil designs coupled with the fact that tonnes of money were also at stake !!


Excerpts of some comments made by Mr.S.Insaf on various threads with regard to YN's arrogance and manipulations :-

1) In June 1966 he (SMB) went to Karachi and sent his men to kill Mulla Abbas Aurangabadi who entered his house, tied him with a chair and burnt him alive by pouring petrol on his body in broad day light. Mulla Abass died in the Karachi's Civil Hospital next day after giving his dying declaration naming Burhanuddin Maula and his brother Yusuf Najmuddin as conspirators.


2) His younger brother and political advertiser, Yusuf Najmuddin took charge of the affairs of Dawat in his name. Yusuf Najmuddin was ruthless and cruel.
In June 1966 Mulla Abbas Aurangabadi was burnt alive in Karachi in day light by goons of Yusuf Najmuddin. Sympathy for Pragati Mandal reached to the Bohras of Pakistan.
In 1967 Yusuf Najmuddin in the name of Syedna Burhanuddin Saheb forcefully imposed an authoritarian constitution on the East Africa Jamats. A large number of Bohras from East Africa Jamats joined the reformist movement.

3) In 1973 when innocent young and old Bohra women were attacked in front of Syedna Saheb and the resentment turned in mass rebellion in Udaipur. In the same year four senior ustads of Jamiya Saifia Surat were thoroughly beaten and one Shaikh Sajjad Husain was killed by the goons of Yusuf Najmuddin.

In the same year 1980, in order to rebuild Syedna Saheb's tarnished image Yusuf Najmuddin for the first time in the Dawoodi Bohra history organised a big Tamasha of show of strength in Egypt in the name of Syedna Saheb's Moharram vaiz in Cairo. For the first time in the Dawoodi Bohra history local vaiz were banned and the Amils were asked to bring as much Bohra to Cairo as possible. A false propaganda was made that Imamuz-Zaman is going to appear in Egypt and it will be big 'Sharaf' to be with your Daiz-Zaman.
After the success of that Tamasha in Cairo, every occasion was turned in to big Tamasha and every act related to Syedna Saheb a 'Sharaf'.
Both the President of Egypt, Anwar Sadat and Yusuf Najmuddin later met with tragic death in Egypt and no one remembers them.

4) Mr. Shashi Bhushan visited Surat to address a party meeting the Bohras were instigated not to allow him to enter the city. A large crowd went on a rampage and the situation became so tense that the police imposed section 144 to control it. Yusuf Najmuddin the rector of Jamia Saifia rushed to Surat and instigated a large crowd of Jamia’s students to teach a lesson to their “munafik” (hypocrite) teachers. Thereafter four senior ustads (eminent scholars), Shaikh Sajjad Husain, Shaikh Hasan Ali, Shaikh Ali Ahmed and Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj were haunted and assaulted mercilessly by their own students under pressure from the rector.
Galiakot incident made Surat’s Jamiah Saifia a hotbed of discussion. In order to frighten the teachers and students Jamias rector and Sayedna Saheb’s brother Yusuf Najmuddin rushed to Surat and incited a mob which attacked the houses of four senior teachers of Jamiah on 23 November 1974. The attack resulted in the death of Shaikh Sajjad Husain Sarangpoorwala.

5) Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb organized a one-day Convention on 5th June 1961 at Saifee Masjid Bombay. Noman Contractor and other reformists were not invited. Various schemes for welfare and economic upliftment of the community were put forward and sanctioned. Then Yusuf Najmuddin raised a question “For materializing these welfare schemes through out the community ‘large fund’ will be required, who is going to foot the finance?” Then after some close consultation with Sayedna Saheb he after quoting from Quran at length he said “Allah helps those who help themselves” and with blessings and foresight of Aqa Maula he announced a new Tax “Sabil" saying that the quantum of the tax would be decided by our Bawa Shafeeq.

6) There were two persons among many other who were hired by Yusuf Najmuddin to oppose Asghar Ali Engineer and Bohra reform movement when seatings of Nathwani Commission of Inquiry were announced in Bombay, Ahmedabad, Udaipur and Delhi. It was first time in the Bohra history that the inhuman atrocities committed, and large scale infringement of human and civil rights of Dawoodi Bohras at the hands of Sayedna Taher Saifuddin and his son Sayedna Burhanuddin were going to be recorded in black and white.
One was Maulana Atiqur-Rehman Usmai and another was Salamat Ali Mehdi. Both tried their best through their speeches, statements and writings to prove that Asghar Ali is an enemy of Islam, Russian agent to destroy Islam and another Salman Rishdi etc.

7) The word "Baraat" based on Quranic Sura "Baraat" was coined by Yusuf Najmuddin and an a practice of verbal announcement was started to avoid legal complications.

8) During 3rd World Dawoodi Bohra Conference held in Bombay in Feb. 1981, the opposition from Kothar was at its peak and was headed by Yusuf Najmuddin. It was then that he came out with two very strange logics to defend his side in the newspaper. One, that a Dawoodi Bohras is not Dawoodi Bohra by birth, but becomes one only by giving misaq to Sayedna. Second that Dawoodi Bohra community is a Club and one who agrees with the rules and regulations of the Club can only remain in the Club.
On these self-claimed strange logics the Reformist asked him through newspaper:
If a Dawoodi Bohra is not by birth why the tax on Hamal (child in mother’s womb) charged and collected, and why the kids in "birth register" and "schools" are written as Dawoodi Bohras?
Secondly every club has a constitution. Where is the constitution of the Bohra Community? Again in every Club the office-bearers are elected and the members have the right to dissent.
These hard questions were never answered by YN but since then the Kothar has taken the back seat and has stopped opposing the reformist Conferences and meetings.


THE MYSTERIOUS DEATH/MURDER OF YUSUF NAJMUDDIN AS REPORTED BY VARIOUS EGYPTIAN NEWSPAPERS, COMPILED BY MR.S.INSAF :-

Daily newspaper Al-Shaabi, reported on 04-22-1987 as under:
“Deal resulting in Death
On ill-faith 20th morning at around 6am, a crushed body was spotted by a Sudanian Arab visitor, lying in front of Hotel Conrad. It was hurriedly collected by Hotel management and handed over.
Brother of Daudi head was here in Cairo since 13th Feb visiting and throwing parties to several government officials. Unconfirmed reports point to some Land-deal. He also had an audience with the President.
No official comments so far.”

Al-Heddaf Daily
"The Prince’s death concealed
The dead body found on 20th April in front of a luxurious hotel said to be that of Naib Sultan Yusuf Najmuddin from India. It was in “broken” condition unable to fly to his native country. Hence buried here. The Prince was seen having some meeting at last night with some land-dealers on the 4th floor room. It is suspected that he fell down from there. The investigations by police are going on.
The Prince brother Sultan Mohammad is in London.

News in brief had also appeared in Akhbarul-Hawadis and Weekly Jaridatul-Fajar.

But News-Magazine Rosal-Yusuf wrote a detailed article describing the “strange practices of tiny sect of Shiite”, the story of harassment of the followers quoting from the report of Nathwani commission, damage done to the Egypt heritage by the desirous person of Fatimid glory and finally questioning the secrecy about the death and a complete silence on the part of the government. And why the body was buried outside the general cemetery?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2239&p=36961&hilit=yusuf+najmuddin#p36961

HighFlyer
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:38 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1790

Unread post by HighFlyer » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:21 pm

mukzsir and mazoon were side line and no one can deny this, while common sense says after dai these two should have been given more importance.

but now there is a bigger question why MB was silent about all this, why he didnt asked people in open to respect more to mazoon and mukasir, why could not throw 2-3 guys who were behind this out? this is clear failure if this was gone unchecked.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 626
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1791

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Fri May 01, 2015 12:24 am

Biradar wrote:The outcome of the court case will be completely irrelevant. Those who follow the con-man Dawedar Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin (DMMS) (LA) will continue to do so. Dadhis will get longer, bellies bigger and minds emptier. No change there. Followers of S. Qutbuddin will remain a few in number. It is very likely that the communities will diverge significantly. The followers of Iblisi Dawaat will become more and more fanatic, handing over all their remaining autonomy to DMMS, while the followers of Dawaat al-Haq will become liberal, forward looking, highly educated, modeled after the brotherhood of the Ikwan as-Safa.

Now, what the court case will do, I think, is open up the use of the community properties to both parties. That is the best one can hope for.

As to the specifics of the drama. Many people here, including me, have repeatedly pointed out that the roots of this infernal mischief were laid by Yusuf Najmudin (LA) and watered by jealousy. YN could not stand that his younger brother, 20 years his junior, was made mazoon. In fact, the jealousy probably started during the life-time of STS (RA) himself, as is clear that STS (RA) had a lot of love and affection for S. Qutbuddin. It is also likely, that STS (RA) had instructed SMB (RA) to appoint him as mazoon and mansoos.

When SMB (RA) came to power, YN (LA) schemed to take over the administrative machinery of the dawaat. He did this in two ways. First, by forcing the da'i's immediate family to take over amaalat and administrative jobs. Second, by subverting the institution of the Jaamia. I think the Progressive Movement, ironically, was partly responsible. Like a menacing "Other", the Progressives gave the ammunition which YN (LA) needed to tighten the screws. So, instead of achieving "progress", the Progressive movement gave an opportunity to the dawaat administration to make Bohras even more regressive.

A contributing factor was that S. Qutbuddin by nature is a quiet and does not assert himself. This could partly be because he is the youngest and was used to being bossed around by his uncles and then his brothers. Also, as is more and more evident, he was influenced, probably very early, by the concept of brotherhood and syncretism in the Ikhwan as-Safa. To him, this fanaticism was contrary to the spirit of mutual love and understanding, seeking of knowledge and giving mutual help as espoused in the Rasail. YN (LA) knew this submissive nature of S. Qutbuddin, and knew he would not do much to oppose this nefarious plans. So he got to work. One by one, he took over the dawaat administration, and then started to turn the children of SMB (RA) against the mazoon. Which, in itself if enough to disqualify DMMS (LA) as the da'i, as he openly disobeyed his own father, and in secret turned many people to believe in this own Iblisi ideas.

YN (LA) worked relentless to undermine the position of the mazoon and the mukasir. The children of SMB (RA) openly laughed at the aging mukasir, Seydi Saleh bhaisabeb. YN (LA) made sure that Saleh bhaisaheb was put in his place, and knew who the real boss was. The incident of humiliating him for the supposed faults of mumineen of Bombay is well known. Also, Saleh bhaisaheb knew of the nass on S. Qutbuddin and probably told many people about it, trying to prevent them from doing iblisi actions against the future da'i.

Once the position of mukasir was destroyed, they went after the mazoon. This is all well known. Pointless rehashing it here. The end result was total sidelining of the mazoon and mukasir, and rise in the power of the shehzadas. Politics at this point became supreme, and spirituality became, as Marx put it, opium of the masses, to be used to put the common bohra to sleep while these daylight robbers staged a coup.

Eventually, the situation was so dire that even SMB (RA) was just a puppet in their hands. They made access to him impossible, and all information from and to him was controlled by his children and his personal physician, Dr. Moiz (LA). The whole conspiracy against the mazoon and mukasir was done in secret, but, unfortunately for them, Taizoon Shakir opened a can of worms with his zahirbatin website. In that, we clearly see that DMMS (LA) says that the mukasir is reading so-and-so book (referring to Hussain bhaisaheb) to make himself look big. Now, DMMS (LA) has appointed this same person, Hussain, his new mazoon! I mean, how wicked and evil can this DMMS (LA) get? And, how stupid and senseless can the bohras be to not see this obvious political machinations by DMMS (LA)?

The so-called Africa episode was pre-planned attempt to discredit the mazoon in front of SMB (RA). They thought that just like Syedi Najam Khan, on machinations of his enemies, was removed from the post of mazoon, so would SMB (RA) removed S. Qutbuddin. However, as a huge slap on their face, SMB (RA) did nothing. He not only kept S. Qutbuddin as the mazoon, but continued to say on how important the position of the mazoon was, and kept sending him in his stead for namaaz and kept giving him honors.

Incidentally, Syedi Najam Khan has great honor in the dawaat history. He obeyed unconditionally, and let the matter take its own course. Then, when the da'i uncovered the machinations of S. Najam Khan's enemies, he was about to reappoint him as his mazoon. But, as fate would have it, S. Najam Khan passed away.

However, the damage had been done already. The infernal roots which were Yusuf Najmuddin (LA) had now yielded the infernal flower, Muffadul Saifuddin (LA). When SMB (RA) fell sick in the early 2000s they had already made plans for announcing nass on DMMS (LA) if anything happened to SMB (RA). We can see this in the vague pronouncements by DMMS (LA) on how SMB (RA) had told him about the nass, for example. However, providentially, and in a delicious irony, DMMS (LA) while sitting on the takhat, himself said that he does not remember the exact date! I mean, here is the most important date in his life, and, like a bumbling idiot, he forgets it!

The incidents after the brain stoke are well known. The Iblisi toli did not think that SMB (RA) would live for more than a few days, and so made a hasty pronouncement. However, SMB (RA) lived for two more years. During this time DMMS (RA) made a right fool of himself. His foot-in-mouth disease was revealed early on. The whole fiasco of openly tattling on people and humiliating them for small vices became a notorious stain on the community. His stupid pronouncements on education have become (in)famous. Then, we all saw with our own eyes on how he stuffed his father's mouth with false teeth, pumped him up with drugs and paraded him in front of fanatical bohras so he could earn legitimacy. We saw how he manipulated the misaaq text. We saw how he pushed his father on the takhat, forcing him to perform sajda, when the poor old father could hardly sit straight. Just for his behavior of two years, DMMS (LA) has earned himself a spot deep in the hottest part of hell. And may he remain there for eternity.

Now, more than a year later, DMMS (LA) has turned the bohras into a burping, junglee dadhi waving, mola mola singing, funny hat wearing, bunch of idiots. He has succeeded, and now the infernal tree has dead branches, laden with rotten leaves, which will soon fall, be swept away and burned. All for the petty jealousy of Yusuf Najmuddin (LA)! Just like the pride and jealousy of Iblis caused his fall, and the decent and creation of the world of buka, so has the jealousy of YN (LA) caused this unforeseen calamity.

However, those who see, will continue to see. Court cases won't make much different in their spiritual beliefs, but perhaps make it a little simpler to access community properties and resources. Otherwise, the die has now been cast, and things will go the way they will. No judge in court can make any difference at this point.
Brother Birader,

Just a question only for the purpose of knowing, no other agenda: Do you know SKQ saheb personally well enough? How confident are you that what you say above (in bold) is correct?

Again, no agenda, we ordinary bohras just did not know much about him, and so I am just trying to get some information - and unbaised information is hard to come by :D :D

araz5253
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:18 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1792

Unread post by araz5253 » Fri May 01, 2015 12:46 am

HighFlyer wrote:mukzsir and mazoon were side line and no one can deny this, while common sense says after dai these two should have been given more importance.

but now there is a bigger question why MB was silent about all this, why he didnt asked people in open to respect more to mazoon and mukasir, why could not throw 2-3 guys who were behind this out? this is clear failure if this was gone unchecked.
actually nobofy is questioning burhanuddin hiself he was the main don and was autocratic and assertive. Whatever happened happened with his orders and wishes while he was well.

MB clearly saw KQ as a thorn , but was caught in "dawat" doctrine, hence did not do anyhthing knewing well that shahzadas would takeover him in a coup, which they did.

Bohras should come out of this mafia cult and embrace Quran and Sunnah which many intelligent bohras have already done.

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1793

Unread post by Adam » Fri May 01, 2015 3:04 am

jungle999
IF SKQ is appering in high court WHY not mms as i kown if some one puts a case agaist secound party they both party have to come to court for hearing or his it that mms is afriad that lies will come out he will have to do dispearing act from abdes in the court. like
he always does which he is very good at.

Well. You don't know much about Law now do you?


and before the duty question the question asked was the rutbas of dawoodi bohra when the imam is in seclusion. to which the reply was dai al mutlak, mazoon al mutlak , and mukasir. BAS no mention of mansoos or be moula.

The Dai and Mansoos are considered one. = First Rutba
Mazoon and Mukasir are Second & Third

Learn first, then comment.

It's fascinating to see all the people who once insulted Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, cheering on for KQ.
The reason is because they simply hated Syedna RA, their hatred is aimed at his true Mansoos, Syedna Mufaddal TUS.



jungle999
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:26 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1794

Unread post by jungle999 » Fri May 01, 2015 5:37 am

ADAM wrote] Well. You don't know much about Law now do you? I am not a lawer but i konw little bit of it .I will give you an example if you are lieing to some one and that person takes you to court isnt that you and that persons have to appear in court to find out the truth
its up to the juge to decide when to call that persons to court if he wants one at a time or not. tell me how much do you know about the law.

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1795

Unread post by Adam » Fri May 01, 2015 5:49 am

@jungle999
am not a lawer but i konw little bit of it .I will give you an example if you are lieing to some one and that person takes you to court isnt that you and that persons have to appear in court to find out the truth
its up to the juge to decide when to call that persons to court if he wants one at a time or not. tell me how much do you know about the law.
It's obvious you aren't a lawyer, and your "little bit" isn't very much.
If you don't need to go to courts, your lawyer represents you.
It's KQ's hearing. Not Syedna's TUS.

next_generation2014
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:37 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1796

Unread post by next_generation2014 » Fri May 01, 2015 7:14 am

1. The notes of evidence of the cross-examination conducted in
Court yesterday have been corrected this morning. As noted in the
previous orders, special arrangements have been made in this trial
for a videographic recording. There is some disagreement in
relation to the answers to Question 120 and Question 142. These
two answers will be cross-verified against the video recording on
the next occasion before these notes of evidence are finalized.

2. List the matter for directions on 15th June 2015.

next_generation2014
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:37 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1797

Unread post by next_generation2014 » Fri May 01, 2015 7:15 am

Adam wrote:
jungle999
IF SKQ is appering in high court WHY not mms as i kown if some one puts a case agaist secound party they both party have to come to court for hearing or his it that mms is afriad that lies will come out he will have to do dispearing act from abdes in the court. like
he always does which he is very good at.

Well. You don't know much about Law now do you?


and before the duty question the question asked was the rutbas of dawoodi bohra when the imam is in seclusion. to which the reply was dai al mutlak, mazoon al mutlak , and mukasir. BAS no mention of mansoos or be moula.

The Dai and Mansoos are considered one. = First Rutba
Mazoon and Mukasir are Second & Third

Learn first, then comment.

It's fascinating to see all the people who once insulted Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, cheering on for KQ.
The reason is because they simply hated Syedna RA, their hatred is aimed at his true Mansoos, Syedna Mufaddal TUS.


@Adam why MS has not submitted London nass in court? :roll: :?:

dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1798

Unread post by dawedaar » Fri May 01, 2015 10:49 am

I have a question for Adam - Abde Syedna (TUS) which I believe Adam will conveniently ignore because he always runs away when asked proper and logical questions.

If the evidences in support of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin are so strong, why is the court case prolonging? The opposition would have lost quite early. The prolonging of the court case implies that SMS side doesn't have solid or substanstial proof to prove that Burhanuddin Maula (RA) did a clear nas!

Adam wrote:

Sceptical
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1799

Unread post by Sceptical » Fri May 01, 2015 12:37 pm

Adam wrote: The Dai and Mansoos are considered one. = First Rutba
Mazoon and Mukasir are Second & Third
Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin was Mazoon and Mansoos, like many of our previous Duat.
So why a Mansoos, who is considered as the highest rutba according to you (Mansoos = Dai), will endorse a lower rutba?
Adam wrote:The reason is because they simply hated Syedna RA, their hatred is aimed at his true Mansoos, Syedna Mufaddal TUS
As usual, the same stupid rhetoric to divert the topic.

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#1800

Unread post by kimanumanu » Fri May 01, 2015 2:44 pm

So if ex-Mazoon is telling the truth that he was also the Mansoos then it was correct for him to be treated the same as the Dai. Adam has confirmed that so I do wonder why he was the "dushman" of 50 years!