Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

[Qadir]

Yes, I will definitely reconsider my position if the video is proved to be fabricated.

[SBM]

Qadir
You keep on referring Dai as "Ghayab Naa Janakar"
So do you believer SMS is 'Ghayab Naa Jankar"? depending on your answer, we can take it further.
I am not sure if I read any were the followers of STF calling him Ghayab Na Jaankar but if they are, same question applies to them.

[Qadir]

Yes i do believe that Dai in satr and Imam are ghayb na jankar.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Yes i do believe that Dai in satr and Imam are ghayb na jankar.

Then, depends how you look at it. So if SMS and SMB can "see" the future, they could see where Modi and his team were going in terms of CAA/NRC, Delhi riots, lock-down on Kashmir (now that we are in a mild lock-down compared to what the Kashmiri people went thru, we can appreciate somewhat what the Kashmir people went thru), etc.

In which case, it is even more disturbing that they became such close buddies. Does that not bother those who believe that they are ghayb na jankar?

[SBM]

Yes i do believe that Dai in satr and Imam are ghayb na jankar.

So why he did not prepare his community (Abdes/Amtes) from Covid-19, How come he did not inform Dr Baharainwala and his family (personal physicians to Ghayab Naa Jankaar) and how come he does not know if Lailatul Qadr will take place in Masjid or not and
MOST IMPORTANT WHERE IS HE HIDING (PLEASE DONOT TELL ME HE IS NOW IN PURDAH TO STAY AWAY FROM ENEMY) cannot afford to have both Imam and Dai in Purdah at the same time

[SBM]

now that we are in a mild lock-down compared to what the Kashmiri people went thru, we can appreciate somewhat what the Kashmir people went thru), etc.

He does NOT care for Kashmiri or for that reason his own Slaves, he only cares for his immediate family, remember on Goon was arrested in Saudi Arabia for breaking rules and they brought him back by lying to authorities that he was suffering from Mental illness ( which I believe entire Clan, leaders and flock are suffering)

[Biradar]

Qadir
You keep on referring Dai as "Ghayab Naa Janakar"
So do you believer SMS is 'Ghayab Naa Jankar"? depending on your answer, we can take it further.
I am not sure if I read any were the followers of STF calling him Ghayab Na Jaankar but if they are, same question applies to them.

What is funny is that Qadir is so naive he has a fairytale view of the power of da'is and imams. He thinks they are like Superman, just wearing white cape instead of red (or is it blue?). The reality is that there is no 'Ghayab Naa Jankar'. There is no basis for this ridiculous statement. I have never heard any da'i actually make this statement. I believe this is something concocted by childish people like Qadir, perhaps from reading one too many Arabian Nights tales. Next we will hear da'i flies on a magic carpet and does jadu-tona and sends legions of angels to help his followers. Oh wait. Muffy already said that!

The da'i is just an ordinary human being. Sure, his job is to provide guidance to the community in religious matters but beyond that there is nothing particularly important he has to say on secular matters. For example, SMB visited Germany and many other places for advanced treatment. Why? Could he not just have his sickness cured by the legions of farista who were are apparently at his beck-and-call? Why did he get a brain stroke and then could not do anything when his son was parading him around to extract maximum benefit from his ailing father? Really, though, all this just goes to show the poor and childish nature of some Bohris who can't tell truth from fiction. Sad, really.

[Crater Lake]

https://www.alvazarat.org/1433/

You can see that SMB did waaz on 2nd Moharram, then on 3rd and 4th a recording from past was played of Burhanuddin Moula. Then starting from 5th Moharram, SMS did bayaan.

I was present for this waaz. Could not understand a word. This is the waaz in which the quack Moiz and the douche MS did all kinds of behurmati towards SMB such as taking the microphone away from him while he was still making sounds in it! It was clear to everyone present that SMB thought he was doing waaz but those present could not make out a word of what was being said. I don’t remember whether it was in this waaz or another that Burhanuddin Moula slapped MS’s hand away..

[Biradar]

https://www.alvazarat.org/1433/

You can see that SMB did waaz on 2nd Moharram, then on 3rd and 4th a recording from past was played of Burhanuddin Moula. Then starting from 5th Moharram, SMS did bayaan.

I was present for this waaz. Could not understand a word. This is the waaz in which the quack Moiz and the douche MS did all kinds of behurmati towards SMB such as taking the microphone away from him while he was still making sounds in it! It was clear to everyone present that SMB thought he was doing waaz but those present could not make out a word of what was being said. I don’t remember whether it was in this waaz or another that Burhanuddin Moula slapped MS’s hand away..

I was present too. The shameful behavior of Muffy and his goons, on how they disrespected SMB was painful to watch. Obviously, they realized the fiasco and then decided best not to put SMB in in this situation and started to broadcast older waaz and then Muffy started his bhasaans. In fact, if SMB was so able to deliver the waaz why did they stop him? Was he about to say something that would put Muffy in a bad spot? One wonders ...

For those of who realize the da'i is a human and not some superman, it was clear that the stroke had severely impacted SMB's ability to speak or even be aware of what was happening around him. He was clearly incapable to making clear speech and likely had lost situational awareness. Again, I have run the audio of these events through sound analysis software and there is very little of coherence that can be made out. But Muffy and his Iblisi toli wanted maximum benefit so forced SBM and disrespected him. Everyone saw this and those with some compassion saw through also the pain that SMB was being put to. But it did not stop the Muffy Mafia from doing this again and again as they knew that SMB was their meal ticket and so they used him as much as they could. Sad, really.

[Qadir]

I was present for this waaz. Could not understand a word. This is the waaz in which the quack Moiz and the douche MS did all kinds of behurmati towards SMB such as taking the microphone away from him while he was still making sounds in it! It was clear to everyone present that SMB thought he was doing waaz but those present could not make out a word of what was being said. I don’t remember whether it was in this waaz or another that Burhanuddin Moula slapped MS’s hand away..

I was present too. The shameful behavior of Muffy and his goons, on how they disrespected SMB was painful to watch. Obviously, they realized the fiasco and then decided best not to put SMB in in this situation and started to broadcast older waaz and then Muffy started his bhasaans. In fact, if SMB was so able to deliver the waaz why did they stop him? Was he about to say something that would put Muffy in a bad spot? One wonders ...

For those of who realize the da'i is a human and not some superman, it was clear that the stroke had severely impacted SMB's ability to speak or even be aware of what was happening around him. He was clearly incapable to making clear speech and likely had lost situational awareness. Again, I have run the audio of these events through sound analysis software and there is very little of coherence that can be made out. But Muffy and his Iblisi toli wanted maximum benefit so forced SBM and disrespected him. Everyone saw this and those with some compassion saw through also the pain that SMB was being put to. But it did not stop the Muffy Mafia from doing this again and again as they knew that SMB was their meal ticket and so they used him as much as they could. Sad, really.

You are mentioning two contradictory scenarios, in first paragraph you say SMB wanted to do bayaan and others stopped him.
In second paragraph you say SMB was forced to do the waaz. If you don't remember, the waaz audio was being relayed worldwide and even though we were not able to understand most of the waaz, we sat through because we were still benefitting from Moula's voice. Also, I personally remember very clearly able to understand Imam Hussain's shahadat.

I don't really need to expect you people to revert course and start believing in the roohani power of duat mutlaqeen. But, my faith in the institution is quite strong.
What a dai does might not make sense to people like you or me, but it means its doing its job of preventing mumineen getting in harm's way. Also, SMS is in Khandala and just like everyone else in the country and community is following government guidelines.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Yes, I will definitely reconsider my position if the video is proved to be fabricated.

Thank you fro answering the question.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

https://www.alvazarat.org/1433/

You can see that SMB did waaz on 2nd Moharram, then on 3rd and 4th a recording from past was played of Burhanuddin Moula. Then starting from 5th Moharram, SMS did bayaan.

Are you sure this video is after SMB's stroke? The audio of this shahadat bayaan is totally clear. I don't think so. Please clarify.


Again, simple question: Is this video after SMB's stroke? And if so, why not the whole 1st waiz that SMB did?

[zinger]

I was present too. The shameful behavior of Muffy and his goons, on how they disrespected SMB was painful to watch. Obviously, they realized the fiasco and then decided best not to put SMB in in this situation and started to broadcast older waaz and then Muffy started his bhasaans. In fact, if SMB was so able to deliver the waaz why did they stop him? Was he about to say something that would put Muffy in a bad spot? One wonders ...

For those of who realize the da'i is a human and not some superman, it was clear that the stroke had severely impacted SMB's ability to speak or even be aware of what was happening around him. He was clearly incapable to making clear speech and likely had lost situational awareness. Again, I have run the audio of these events through sound analysis software and there is very little of coherence that can be made out. But Muffy and his Iblisi toli wanted maximum benefit so forced SBM and disrespected him. Everyone saw this and those with some compassion saw through also the pain that SMB was being put to. But it did not stop the Muffy Mafia from doing this again and again as they knew that SMB was their meal ticket and so they used him as much as they could. Sad, really.

You are mentioning two contradictory scenarios, in first paragraph you say SMB wanted to do bayaan and others stopped him.
In second paragraph you say SMB was forced to do the waaz. If you don't remember, the waaz audio was being relayed worldwide and even though we were not able to understand most of the waaz, we sat through because we were still benefitting from Moula's voice. Also, I personally remember very clearly able to understand Imam Hussain's shahadat.

I don't really need to expect you people to revert course and start believing in the roohani power of duat mutlaqeen. But, my faith in the institution is quite strong.
What a dai does might not make sense to people like you or me, but it means its doing its job of preventing mumineen getting in harm's way. Also, SMS is in Khandala and just like everyone else in the country and community is following government guidelines.

Friend Qadir, i must first of all, thank you for maintaining a civil and decent code of conduct. its very rare a thing on this forum, and i mean this for both sides of the fence

secondly, i too will disagree with your claim of being able to hear every word clearly, of the shahdat of Imam Hussain AS on 2nd Muharrum. if you did, then i must say your ears are even better than the audio forensic equipment that Birader has

and thirdly, and this is my last point, i completely empathise with your situation. i was once in the exact same spot as you are, blindly believing in all that the Dai said. Over time, i opened my eyes. in spite of all the love and respect and belief i had in Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin, i too eventually came to accept that he too, was mortal, with feet of clay

i dont mean to try and make you change your views and opinions. if you do it someday on your own, wonderful then, and join the club.

if you dont, no problem, hold on to the faith. its important to have belief, it doesnt matter in what, whats important is that you must believe

[Crater Lake]

You are mentioning two contradictory scenarios, in first paragraph you say SMB wanted to do bayaan and others stopped him.
In second paragraph you say SMB was forced to do the waaz. If you don't remember, the waaz audio was being relayed worldwide and even though we were not able to understand most of the waaz, we sat through because we were still benefitting from Moula's voice. Also, I personally remember very clearly able to understand Imam Hussain's shahadat.

I don't really need to expect you people to revert course and start believing in the roohani power of duat mutlaqeen. But, my faith in the institution is quite strong.
What a dai does might not make sense to people like you or me, but it means its doing its job of preventing mumineen getting in harm's way. Also, SMS is in Khandala and just like everyone else in the country and community is following government guidelines.

Friend Qadir, i must first of all, thank you for maintaining a civil and decent code of conduct. its very rare a thing on this forum, and i mean this for both sides of the fence

secondly, i too will disagree with your claim of being able to hear every word clearly, of the shahdat of Imam Hussain AS on 2nd Muharrum. if you did, then i must say your ears are even better than the audio forensic equipment that Birader has

and thirdly, and this is my last point, i completely empathise with your situation. i was once in the exact same spot as you are, blindly believing in all that the Dai said. Over time, i opened my eyes. in spite of all the love and respect and belief i had in Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin, i too eventually came to accept that he too, was mortal, with feet of clay

i dont mean to try and make you change your views and opinions. if you do it someday on your own, wonderful then, and join the club.

if you dont, no problem, hold on to the faith. its important to have belief, it doesnt matter in what, whats important is that you must believe

NOOO!!!!! What are you saying Zinger? Having belief that a wishy-washy moron is your dai, can only lead you in harm’s way. How is it more important to allow a usurping liar to guide you rather than not believing and letting your own instincts guide you? Although having seen what I have of Qadir’s instincts...it could be a tough call.

[Ambassador_Mumbai]

Yes i do believe that Dai in satr and Imam are ghayb na jankar.

Then how come STS did not know that Fatema Bai Saheb and Husaina Aaisaheb were milk sisters, before proposing her for marriage and then putting the plans on hold, when Wife of Syedna Abdullah Badruddin informed her of so.

[zinger]

Friend Qadir, i must first of all, thank you for maintaining a civil and decent code of conduct. its very rare a thing on this forum, and i mean this for both sides of the fence

secondly, i too will disagree with your claim of being able to hear every word clearly, of the shahdat of Imam Hussain AS on 2nd Muharrum. if you did, then i must say your ears are even better than the audio forensic equipment that Birader has

and thirdly, and this is my last point, i completely empathise with your situation. i was once in the exact same spot as you are, blindly believing in all that the Dai said. Over time, i opened my eyes. in spite of all the love and respect and belief i had in Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin, i too eventually came to accept that he too, was mortal, with feet of clay

i dont mean to try and make you change your views and opinions. if you do it someday on your own, wonderful then, and join the club.

if you dont, no problem, hold on to the faith. its important to have belief, it doesnt matter in what, whats important is that you must believe

NOOO!!!!! What are you saying Zinger? Having belief that a wishy-washy moron is your dai, can only lead you in harm’s way. How is it more important to allow a usurping liar to guide you rather than not believing and letting your own instincts guide you? Although having seen what I have of Qadir’s instincts...it could be a tough call.

Actually Sister Crate Lake, i beg to differ. what matters is that you have faith. it is the conviction of belief that often gives strength and succor to people. then whether you believe in a Allah, God, Yahweh, Ishwar, Bhagwan, Supreme Intelligence or a Dai, Pope, Dalai Lama, Ram, Krishna, Hanuman etc,that is a matter of personal choice.

i wont admit to knowing anything more than a gram of psychology, but what i do know is this, that it is faith or belief that is the foundation of core strength

[Crater Lake]

NOOO!!!!! What are you saying Zinger? Having belief that a wishy-washy moron is your dai, can only lead you in harm’s way. How is it more important to allow a usurping liar to guide you rather than not believing and letting your own instincts guide you? Although having seen what I have of Qadir’s instincts...it could be a tough call.

Actually Sister Crate Lake, i beg to differ. what matters is that you have faith. it is the conviction of belief that often gives strength and succor to people. then whether you believe in a Allah, God, Yahweh, Ishwar, Bhagwan, Supreme Intelligence or a Dai, Pope, Dalai Lama, Ram, Krishna, Hanuman etc,that is a matter of personal choice.

i wont admit to knowing anything more than a gram of psychology, but what i do know is this, that it is faith or belief that is the foundation of core strength

But one should fall short of believing that a moron is one’s guide to a righteous path.

[Saif53]

If so, did your lawyer (Mr. Iqbal Chagla) point out that this was a distorted text? What was the witness and the judge's response? This is all elementary as you state, so I am sure those smart lawyers caught it and corrected the witness. What was response from the judge to a distorted text being submitted? Did the judge rebuke them? And how did it proceed/end?

And for the FD folks, the question would be:

" However, as always, other Fatimi texts refute the Qutbi claim, and establish the text of al-Hidāyah al-Āmirīyah as a true Fatimi work. Syedna Mohammed bin Taher RA and Syedna Idris Imaduddin RA reference al-Hidāyah al-Āmirīyah as the work[1] of Imam Amir AS.

What’s more, Taher Fakhruddin’s sister, Bazat Saifiyah Qutbuddin in her M.A Thesis paper extensively references it as Imam Amir’s AS work.[2] Further, Husain Qutbuddin in one of his initial Q&A sessions mentions al-Hidāyah al-Āmirīyah as Imam Amir’s AS work, in great detail.[3]"

Is the above stated accurate? Please clarify your position. Thanks.

The Professor didn't state that the book claims this. He questioned the validity of the book in general. There's no need to respond. That was his own position. That's what he was hired for. To dismiss the book that challenges their changing nass position.

However, since the Qutbi Bohras want to deny that the book is authentic, they've rejected the words of Syedna Idris and Syedna Mohammed Bin Taher, because both these Dai's have confirmed it's authenticity.

If the Qutbi's claim that this particular manuscript isn't authentic, then fine. They should've brought forth their manuscript where it states otherwise.
The fact that Husain Qutbuddin and Bazat Saifiyah have referred to Hidayat al Amiriyah shows either A) They've relied on this same text or B) They have another text, but they haven't revealed it. Catch 22.

[quote=dal-chaval-palidu What was distorted (by whom) and misquoted (by whom)?

Misquoted by the Qutbi Bohras. They knew that the text doesn't state it. (The text is actually refuting it). But, they continued to write that on this forum and make everyone think that the text actually states it. Reference to 2 messages below:

Crater Lake wrote:
Sat Dec 07

And do you think that dawat would sanction ANY kitaab which claimed that one imaam killed another?! You are a bigger moron than I thought.

objectiveobserver53 wrote:
Sat Dec 07

Well spotted my friend. Do you think that if they had ANYTHING at all that they would need to play this elaborate charade?

[Ambassador_Mumbai]

I have sincere a question for members on this forum from both SMS and STF side,

What is your opinion about the revelations made by Ismail Bs Luqmani?

Why is there no official response to charges made by him against the Dai's from 47th till 51st.

Almost everyone curses the AdamJee's sons and the Four ustads, but Faizullah Hamdani and Ismail Luqmani who were chief witness in cases against STS are conviniently left out of this list of cursing?

are those related to family of Syedna free from sin of inteqeta un Nass?

[ajamali]

If so, did your lawyer (Mr. Iqbal Chagla) point out that this was a distorted text? What was the witness and the judge's response? This is all elementary as you state, so I am sure those smart lawyers caught it and corrected the witness. What was response from the judge to a distorted text being submitted? Did the judge rebuke them? And how did it proceed/end?

And for the FD folks, the question would be:

" However, as always, other Fatimi texts refute the Qutbi claim, and establish the text of al-Hidāyah al-Āmirīyah as a true Fatimi work. Syedna Mohammed bin Taher RA and Syedna Idris Imaduddin RA reference al-Hidāyah al-Āmirīyah as the work[1] of Imam Amir AS.

What’s more, Taher Fakhruddin’s sister, Bazat Saifiyah Qutbuddin in her M.A Thesis paper extensively references it as Imam Amir’s AS work.[2] Further, Husain Qutbuddin in one of his initial Q&A sessions mentions al-Hidāyah al-Āmirīyah as Imam Amir’s AS work, in great detail.[3]"

Is the above stated accurate? Please clarify your position. Thanks.

The Professor didn't state that the book claims this. He questioned the validity of the book in general. There's no need to respond. That was his own position. That's what he was hired for. To dismiss the book that challenges their changing nass position.

However, since the Qutbi Bohras want to deny that the book is authentic, they've rejected the words of Syedna Idris and Syedna Mohammed Bin Taher, because both these Dai's have confirmed it's authenticity.

If the Qutbi's claim that this particular manuscript isn't authentic, then fine. They should've brought forth their manuscript where it states otherwise.
The fact that Husain Qutbuddin and Bazat Saifiyah have referred to Hidayat al Amiriyah shows either A) They've relied on this same text or B) They have another text, but they haven't revealed it. Catch 22.

[quote=dal-chaval-palidu What was distorted (by whom) and misquoted (by whom)?

Misquoted by the Qutbi Bohras. They knew that the text doesn't state it. (The text is actually refuting it). But, they continued to write that on this forum and make everyone think that the text actually states it. Reference to 2 messages below:

Crater Lake wrote:
Sat Dec 07

And do you think that dawat would sanction ANY kitaab which claimed that one imaam killed another?! You are a bigger moron than I thought.

objectiveobserver53 wrote:
Sat Dec 07

Well spotted my friend. Do you think that if they had ANYTHING at all that they would need to play this elaborate charade?

I just wanna know why you guys think that nass can be changed. And why you claimed in court that Sadiq Imam did nass on Moosa Qasim.... why would the Dai who does nass with the ilhaam of the Imam need to change the nass? Are you saying that the Imam is fallible then? Did STS believe Imam Jafar us Sadiq do nass on Moosa Qazim, did SMB believe that? How can you say it is irrelevant what STS wished SMB to do? would SMB think it was irrelevant what STS wished him to do?

Having said those things in court do not try to align yourself with STS and SMB on this forum.

[Saif53]

I just wanna know why you guys think that nass can be changed. And why you claimed in court that Sadiq Imam did nass on Moosa Qasim.... why would the Dai who does nass with the ilhaam of the Imam need to change the nass? Are you saying that the Imam is fallible then? Did STS believe Imam Jafar us Sadiq do nass on Moosa Qazim, did SMB believe that? How can you say it is irrelevant what STS wished SMB to do? would SMB think it was irrelevant what STS wished him to do?

Having said those things in court do not try to align yourself with STS and SMB on this forum.

1. Nass can be changed, because it has been in the past. There are almost 4 occasions. Hidayat Amiriyah also establishes this possibility. Each Imam/Dai has the right to appoint whomsoever/whenever he wishes.
All the details are here: http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/p/summa ... itnat.html

2. About Musa Kazim. You'll need to provide the exact court text. Not rely on what the Qutbis are feeding you on this Forum. As seen above in regards to the killing of Imam Hasan, the Qutbis made you'll believe that that was what was written in the text, and our position. When it wasn't. You'll drank the cool-aid without asking for any evidence. Be smart.

[RedBox]

400 waras thi Imam ne biju koi momeen maltij nathi.

Èkkaj family naa baap dada ane chora dudh naa dhoila che. Etle baddhu ilhaam emnej mali rahyu che.

[ajamali]

I just wanna know why you guys think that nass can be changed. And why you claimed in court that Sadiq Imam did nass on Moosa Qasim.... why would the Dai who does nass with the ilhaam of the Imam need to change the nass? Are you saying that the Imam is fallible then? Did STS believe Imam Jafar us Sadiq do nass on Moosa Qazim, did SMB believe that? How can you say it is irrelevant what STS wished SMB to do? would SMB think it was irrelevant what STS wished him to do?

Having said those things in court do not try to align yourself with STS and SMB on this forum.

1. Nass can be changed, because it has been in the past. There are almost 4 occasions. Hidayat Amiriyah also establishes this possibility. Each Imam/Dai has the right to appoint whomsoever/whenever he wishes.
All the details are here: http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/p/summa ... itnat.html

2. About Musa Kazim. You'll need to provide the exact court text. Not rely on what the Qutbis are feeding you on this Forum. As seen above in regards to the killing of Imam Hasan, the Qutbis made you'll believe that that was what was written in the text, and our position. When it wasn't. You'll drank the cool-aid without asking for any evidence. Be smart.

No one fed me any koolaid. I had reached out to a Fatemi Dawat member and was given the exact account. And even then I agree with Stewart. How could an imam write a book in which he would claim that any Shia sect believed that one imam murdered another. The text you brought to court is a contortion. That’s just plain ridiculous. And yes, you cannot provide an answer for The claim you made about Moosa Qazim in court is because you have no answer that can justify it. I have a first hand account of it from someone who was present in court.
Why don’t you guys just call yourselves Twelvers rather than Ismailis or Dawoodi Bohras? Now we know who was actually visiting the Imambara while asking his own followers not to

Also if you claim that nass can be changed then you are saying that the ilhaam of the imam can be wrong. That just does not sound too infallible to me. How can the imam be wrong in the most important inspiration he provides to a Dai? Your arguments are not at all convincing and your historical accounts are twisted just so.

It’s like someone said here before...”Apparently Mufaddal Saifuddin is infallible but it took Imam Jafar us Sadiq three attempts to get it right!”

[Saif53]

That's fine. That's your opinion.
I'm a Dawoodi Bohra. So i'll follow the teachings of the Duat such as Syedna Idris Imaduddin, Syedna Mohammed bin Taher that establish the text of al-Hidayah al-Amiriyah. Thanks

[ajamali]

That's fine. That's your opinion.
I'm a Dawoodi Bohra. So i'll follow the teachings of the Duat such as Syedna Idris Imaduddin, Syedna Mohammed bin Taher that establish the text of al-Hidayah al-Amiriyah. Thanks

Not my opinion - a fact. If nass is changed, the logical conclusion is that the imam was wrong the first time and in some cases, and based on the court records, also a second time!! So you are now questioning the infallibility of the Imam - I take back what I said. I don’t think you even qualify as adhering to Shia beliefs. I think the Twelvers would boot you right out of their Imambaras also!

[james]

Dude ajamali,no one gives a crap about your anal analysis. For the Bohras,it is enough that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA did nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS. So not sure why you've been getting your undies in a bunch over all this. You have begun to sound downright desperate

I had reached out to a Fatemi Dawat member and was given the exact account. I have a first hand account of it from someone who was present in court.

The same member reached out and said he fed you bullshit and also told me to tell you that you are a moron who believes everything if it fits in your hatred filled narrative. The said member has an Egyptian friend at work and they both want to tell you that it is stupid to bring personal narrative into the mix on a forum and they would like you to stop making a fool of yourself.

One can only challenge your tripe if its in the public domain.Otherwise he-said-she-said nonsense can go on for a long time.

[ajamali]

Dude ajamali,no one gives a crap about your anal analysis. For the Bohras,it is enough that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA did nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS. So not sure why you've been getting your undies in a bunch over all this. You have begun to sound downright desperate

I had reached out to a Fatemi Dawat member and was given the exact account. I have a first hand account of it from someone who was present in court.

The same member reached out and said he fed you bullshit and also told me to tell you that you are a moron who believes everything if it fits in your hatred filled narrative. The said member has an Egyptian friend at work and they both want to tell you that it is stupid to bring personal narrative into the mix on a forum and they would like you to stop making a fool of yourself.

One can only challenge your tripe if its in the public domain.Otherwise he-said-she-said nonsense can go on for a long time.

Haha “ Anal analysis,” “Hate filled narrative” say the authors of QutbiBohra blog. Mufaddal Saifuddin just whispered that in my ear and laughed a mocking laugh.

You know and I know that desperate is your attempt to prove the fake nass. So go ahead and add Moosa Qazim’s name to takarrub....

[UnhappyBohra]

Dude ajamali,no one gives a crap about your anal analysis. For the Bohras,it is enough that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA did nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS. So not sure why you've been getting your undies in a bunch over all this. You have begun to sound downright desperate

I had reached out to a Fatemi Dawat member and was given the exact account. I have a first hand account of it from someone who was present in court.

The same member reached out and said he fed you bullshit and also told me to tell you that you are a moron who believes everything if it fits in your hatred filled narrative. The said member has an Egyptian friend at work and they both want to tell you that it is stupid to bring personal narrative into the mix on a forum and they would like you to stop making a fool of yourself.

One can only challenge your tripe if its in the public domain.Otherwise he-said-she-said nonsense can go on for a long time.

It is obvious what’s happening here. James cannot somehow make the imam infallible while also making it OK for him to change nass. So he has stooped to ad hominem.

AJ makes a valid argument.

And we all know that a great number of Muffy Bohras only care about entry into Club Bohra. I think that’s code for what it is that you said they cared for. They don’t give a rat’s ass about their “Dai” - if the videos and WhatsApp messages they float about him are anything to go by. Also, they ratted him out to the media when he forced them to congregate in a pandemic. Not much love is lost there obviously.
It’s funny how you assumed that all of us had been fed a lie by FD and floated it out there as a fact. Apparently that’s OK on a public forum! AJ countered a false narrative with personal experience and you called him stupid. Apparently that’s OK on a public forum too.

The quotes from CL and OO53 were rather far fetched as an attempt to prove your point.

[Qadir]

So, when the whole topic of prof stewart discrediting the kitab saying it claims imam Hussain had something to do with Imam Hassan's shahadat, i said that there's something missing from the argument.
All the FD people were on their toes getting happy about it and unknowingly doubted Imam Aamir's kitab which even KQs children have referenced in past.
Now that its been proven that I was correct in saying that the argument initially was not valid because the information people on this forum provided was incomplete.
FD people are discrediting Imam Aamir's kitab and also claiming that something about Musa Kazim was mentioned in court.
I once again say that information provided on this Musa Kazim thing is incomplete. If FD people can provide one valid evidence such as a news article or something from TFs bayaan or something else from their leadership, I will put forward my opinions. I don't know and so does anyone else know what exactly why Musa Kazim was mentioned and if mentioned in what context.

James, your post was uncalled for. Ajamali, you hearing something from someone even if its TF is not valid just like how KQ saying he was told by SMB he is mansoos is not valid.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

So, when the whole topic of prof stewart discrediting the kitab saying it claims imam Hussain had something to do with Imam Hassan's shahadat, i said that there's something missing from the argument.
All the FD people were on their toes getting happy about it and unknowingly doubted Imam Aamir's kitab which even KQs children have referenced in past.
Now that its been proven that I was correct in saying that the argument initially was not valid because the information people on this forum provided was incomplete.
FD people are discrediting Imam Aamir's kitab and also claiming that something about Musa Kazim was mentioned in court.
I once again say that information provided on this Musa Kazim thing is incomplete. If FD people can provide one valid evidence such as a news article or something from TFs bayaan or something else from their leadership, I will put forward my opinions. I don't know and so does anyone else know what exactly why Musa Kazim was mentioned and if mentioned in what context.

James, your post was uncalled for. Ajamali, you hearing something from someone even if its TF is not valid just like how KQ saying he was told by SMB he is mansoos is not valid.

Below is the udaipur times news article.

https://udaipurtimes.com/news/dawoodi-b ... s10698.htm

It is a public newspaper and if it stated things incorrectly, why does SMS / QaidJohar BS not correct them? Previously, the Kothar has put their views in public - For example, QaidJohar BS wrote a letter to Hindustan Times stating their position sometime in April 2013. Why not do it here.

And if they deliberately misprint, India has libel laws. Take legal action.

So bhai Qadir,here is a news article stating what people are saying. Please gives the SMS refutation to this. And, if not, FD puts information on their website. Why not the Kothar put their viewpoint out too?