Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
byculla
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:40 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2851

Unread post by byculla » Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:02 am

james wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:09 am
byculla wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:44 am

You think meaning behind wordings of a Dawat kitab could be understood by taking help from any outside translator who wouldn't know dawoodi bohra theology, who wouldn't know who wrote the kitab, what is intended audience, what is the relevant context ? Seriously ? Word "maula" can have a different interpretation but a word "izn" can't? I did read what you presented 2nd time. I remember reading it before as well (in 2016 I think) when it originally came out - I already told you that.

I do know that the word Dai and Izn has different meanings in Arabic. I recall a conversation with a muslim friend, for whom Tablighis and zakir Naik are examples of "dai" and in general anybody doing islamic preaching is a dai. I am sure he is going to say anybody given any kind of "permission" is "izn". Context and interpreting it is important. Credentials of who is doing it is as well. Maratib of Mazoon is also an indication of his high "ilm".
Let's collectively try to get to the root of this reference that you are talking about.

Firstly post the reference to it and I hope this time you won't refer to court or FateliDavat correspondence.


Once you post the reference,it will come to light even if one were to agree on whom the text was referring to,there is a lot of difference in a statement and an instruction.


As an example:

byculla will always speak the truth

byculla should always speak the truth

On a lighter vein,

byculla will never believe in fake whatsapp circulations

byculla should never believe in fake whatsapp circulations.


You yourself has admitted that people who have been made Mazoon or Mukasir are fallible and can go astray.
For a fallible entity,"SHOULD" as an instruction makes more sense. But perhaps you don't have the 98th Chapter in mind.So for the sake of clarity and truth,please post the reference and let's take it forward from there.


As a bonus,here's an example/lesson on nifaaq.

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA said,
“I believed Husain bhai and I unequivocally declared that he and his entire family are innocent of these accusations. I accepted his diyafat, honoured him with a shawl and prayed for his wellbeing.

After having done all this and after all that has transpired till now, if someone is still in doubt as to whether Husain bhai may have lied to me and was subsequently pardoned [even though he lied], then it is tantamount to having doubt in my judgement and the appropriateness of my actions. This stands true regardless of the rank and station of the person harbouring that doubt.”


Qutbis claim:
Shehzada Mufaddal bhaisaheb immediately accepted their oath—with no other evidence, and without listening to Qutbuddin Mola’s side of the story

The ultimate context is the above enlarged text. :D
@James - a lot of your post is sarcasm which is not worthy of response. I will not comment on that. You should know you have used Profanity before on this forum. Hope you will improve with time.

About the events of 1409 you should know that SMB RA had ordered to put to rest those events and stop talking about it. After wafaat of SMB RA. SKQ RA did NOT bring it up (in response) until your leader Mufaddal's followers started harping about it in majlises presided by MS and with his permission.. I have no further interest in any conversation with you on this 1409H topic.

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2852

Unread post by RedBox » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:20 am

While world is fighting a pandamic
While world is moving to space
While world needs real advice and finances

these soo called jamiya langurs are busy fighting their dead master who made a great blunder intentionally to confuse masses and install his son to the throne.

these are scholars of BOHRAS.......to be precise Chu*** of Bohras.

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2853

Unread post by RedBox » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:43 am

momeenin has given crores of rupees so far to dawat, but I know right now neither Taher or Muffy are doing anything for the momeenin in such hard times. small businesses in India and pak needs urgent funds to survive, but both taher and muffy are busy avoiding help and just giving false promises, so many such cases have came to my attention in recent times.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2854

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:22 pm

RedBox wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:43 am momeenin has given crores of rupees so far to dawat, but I know right now neither Taher or Muffy are doing anything for the momeenin in such hard times. small businesses in India and pak needs urgent funds to survive, but both taher and muffy are busy avoiding help and just giving false promises, so many such cases have came to my attention in recent times.
In the context of your question above, does anybody know if the help provided by FD is good? I understand that the need is immense, and of course they are a drop in the bucket, but it would be good to know that they are doing their little bit in a good way.

https://www.fatemidawat.com/connect/con ... id-19-help

I don't want arguments or partisanship here, just some people who are familiar with this effort - if they can provide an accurate picture of this effort, that would be good. Some of the questions:

That the accounting is good?
Help is reaching the needy?
etc.

Saif53
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2855

Unread post by Saif53 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:44 am

byculla wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:44 am You think meaning behind wordings of a Dawat kitab could be understood by taking help from any outside translator who wouldn't know dawoodi bohra theology, who wouldn't know who wrote the kitab, what is intended audience, what is the relevant context ? Seriously ? I did read what you presented 2nd time. I remember reading it before as well (in 2016 I think) when it originally came out - I already told you that.

I do know that the word Dai and Izn has different meanings in Arabic. I recall a conversation with a muslim friend, for whom Tablighis and zakir Naik are examples of "dai" and in general anybody doing islamic preaching is a dai. I am sure he is going to say anybody given any kind of "permission" is "izn". Context and interpreting it is important. Credentials of who is doing it is as well. Maratib of Mazoon is also an indication of his high "ilm".
1. Well, the Qutbis approached Prof. Devin Stewart to help with their interpretations, so maybe you could ask him for his translation. Since he's an "expert".

2. The text doesn't refer to "Dai and Izn".
It mentions the words Izn & Itlaaq. Both are used in the same context in the text, i.e permission to teach.

3. If you don't agree, then just ask the Qutbis for the translations of the first and last lines of that Chapter 98 from Taaj al Aqaid.
Here, let me help you:
FIRST LINE: "When he reaches those stages, he is "atlaqa" for "nutq" (given permission to speak, i.e, teach) - Does this line talk about a Dai Mutlaq? Obviously not.

LAST LINE: [Similarly] "When he reaches those stages [mentioned above] he is "yuzan" for "itlaq" and kalaam (i.e given *permission* for to teach). Does this line talk about a Dai Mutlaq? Obviously not.

Oh by the way, the same text doesn't guarantee anyone's [mentioned in the text's] truthfulness. That's just another product of the Qutbi Bohra fabrication factory situated in Thane. :D

Don't believe me? Go on. Ask the Qutbis or Devin Stewart for a translation: dstewar@emory.edu

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2856

Unread post by RedBox » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:40 pm

There is no difference between mufaddali and taheri when it comes to help momeenin.

I asked one of my friend to seek financial help from FD because he was having some financial issues. I asked him because I wanted to know what is the difference there. He already seeked help with mufaddali dawat and standard reply was get gauranters and gold to get money.

So I thought lets try FD and see if they have some thing different for momeenin in such pandemic and dire economic situation.

But to our surprise nothing is different he got a call from some commity member and the reply was standard. If you dont have gold we cant help you.

So basically no matter whome you follow do not expect any help when you need it.

I encourage others to contact FD and see what the reply.

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2857

Unread post by RedBox » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:40 am

Basically even in pendamic these guys so called father of bohras are busy saving their wealth.

If you think this is untrue. Then please contact FD and check by your self.

Qadir
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2858

Unread post by Qadir » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:17 am

RedBox wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:40 pm There is no difference between mufaddali and taheri when it comes to help momeenin.

I asked one of my friend to seek financial help from FD because he was having some financial issues. I asked him because I wanted to know what is the difference there. He already seeked help with mufaddali dawat and standard reply was get gauranters and gold to get money.

So I thought lets try FD and see if they have some thing different for momeenin in such pandemic and dire economic situation.

But to our surprise nothing is different he got a call from some commity member and the reply was standard. If you dont have gold we cant help you.

So basically no matter whome you follow do not expect any help when you need it.

I encourage others to contact FD and see what the reply.
One thing that i want to mention regarding Qardan Hasanat is that Qard is given without gold to people who might need it for essentials like medical procedures or food. Apart from this, there's also other various ways people can receive help. Eg. FMB, Upliftment Committee (housing needs), directly from mumineen, etc.

Now Qard is given to people for other various needs such as buying new house, car, higher education, business related, etc but only if they can bring guarantors or gold or both. Guarantors can also give gold to Qardan Hasanat on behalf of the mumin who needs help. Sometimes Guarantors even pay off the debt of the mumin too in times of dire need.

As I've mentioned before, dawat also pays off debt of some people on a case-by-case basis.

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2859

Unread post by RedBox » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:27 am

Qadir tu bau mohto dallo che.....tane e pun khabar nai padti ke humna reality su che...humna economic crises ewa che jaha loko ne madad ni jaroor che, pun taro master ane Taheri gang banne pot potana fayda maa laagela che.

aa loko khali paisa leta samjhe che, jyaare madad karwani aawi to laakho bahana yaad aawi jai che.
Last edited by RedBox on Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Qadir
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2860

Unread post by Qadir » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:30 am

Now reverting back to the case, because that's what this forum is about, I am going to day what's probably going to happen in two scenarios:
1) Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin's side wins!
TF and FD will say we lied and used money to influence case in our favor and everything, which includes properties, followers, ideas, positions all will remain the same no matter what.
2) TF side wins!
Majority of followers will still remain on SMS side. We might lose a lot of properties, including masjids and markaz but FD will not be able to maintain them well simply due to lacking numbers in administration. People will try to revolt by not letting imam appointed by TF to pray namaz in masjid and overtime, dawat will buy out the properties from FD side because where more people are is where more capital lies. Dawat will ask people to contribute money to buy masjids and markaz or make new ones. Dawat might once again be indebted but with the strong belied that the sun will shine again just like how it did in STS zaman.

On a people's point of view, SMS win is favorable. If this was a case of some different religion or say a political one, we all would be favoring the SMS side because that's what works for the general majority.

Crater Lake
Posts: 349
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2861

Unread post by Crater Lake » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:52 pm

Qadir wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:30 am Now reverting back to the case, because that's what this forum is about, I am going to day what's probably going to happen in two scenarios:
1) Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin's side wins!
TF and FD will say we lied and used money to influence case in our favor and everything, which includes properties, followers, ideas, positions all will remain the same no matter what.
2) TF side wins!
Majority of followers will still remain on SMS side. We might lose a lot of properties, including masjids and markaz but FD will not be able to maintain them well simply due to lacking numbers in administration. People will try to revolt by not letting imam appointed by TF to pray namaz in masjid and overtime, dawat will buy out the properties from FD side because where more people are is where more capital lies. Dawat will ask people to contribute money to buy masjids and markaz or make new ones. Dawat might once again be indebted but with the strong belied that the sun will shine again just like how it did in STS zaman.

On a people's point of view, SMS win is favorable. If this was a case of some different religion or say a political one, we all would be favoring the SMS side because that's what works for the general majority.
Haha Qadir.... the world would be an amusing place if all the people were like you i.e. like people who could not see beyond the tip of their noses but pretended they were visionaries. Your limited foresight is amusing.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2862

Unread post by james » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:06 pm

byculla wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:40 am
No he was not a witness. The rest is plain rhetoric. The fake nass letter which MS produced was shown 2.5 years after the (fake) nass. The whole nass story from Mufaddal Saifuddin has evolved from first event in London Hospital to adding 2 shahids QJ and MA few months later to Adding nass diary 2.5 years later to adding a hindu shahid from MP state a little later. Enough said. Your story has evolved. Why didn't original nass nama which had all indications of so called shaan of MS not have any mention of 1388 diary. Why it took them so long to reveal this evidence if it was so authentic.


On one hand you question the timing of multiple nuss and on the other hand you don't mind accepting a claim of nass done without any witnesses from 50 years ago by a fallible entity?

If schism would have happened in 1432,make no mistake that Nass diary and the Hospital audio/video (which you yourself called it convincing) would have been revealed at that time but then again never in the lifetime of a Naas,a dawedaar has made a claim. It always happens after the passing away of Saheb e Zaman. Khuzaima most probably manipulated by his sons and daughters into making this nass claim on the basis that only Raudat Taher nass video will be enough to sway the mumineen away from the path of Haq but they forgot that Allah Ta'ala SWT is the best of planners and Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA in his infinite wisdom did multiple Nuss to save his mumineen from the dawedaar's evil agenda. You are reduced to questioning the timing of the multiple Nuss to divert the focus away from the fact that such a document actually exists. On on hand you close your ears when one person is asked to keep it a secret for 50 years and on the other hand you question why Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA asked the shahids to keep it a secret? You have even crossed Biradar in hypocrisy and that says so much about your nonsense.
Because I don't have details about arabic dawat kitabs. Why do you ask us when we have already told you so ? Ask them in court. Scared ?
If you do not have any details why would you even bring it into the discussion? Back up what you claim or be condemned for it when called upon it. It is shameful to see no Qutbis have come to your rescue and quote the Taaj Al Aqaid reference on your behalf.I guess Crater Lake is still researching on Mala's products :lol: And the other lackeys are busy dissecting on how to counter Abdeali's hate fueled youtube sessions to the gullible lot who were disturbed by the lanats at that time not knowing that 6 years later,Abdeali in total frustration will make them rethink on the lanat topic.
I already see how convenient it is for you to "not" answer how SMB RA in the condition he was wrote 72 bands of 2013 munajat "in that year itself" as is Kothar's version.
Like I have said before,I am not interested in your personal opinions casting aspersions on the amal of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.You claim that he couldn't have written the 72 bayt of Munajat after the stroke,whereas I am saying what is 72 bayt for an infallible entity whose every single breath is Munajat! Here's another free lesson on Nifaq.

Qutbis on their youtube channel have uploaded a video titled Syedna Burhanuddin's Last Ashara which has salami video from Ashara 1432H. Now if 1432H was the last Ashara then why do you Qutbis keep saying Khuzaima was Mazoon for 50 years? That should be corrected to 47 years. :mrgreen:

The stench of hypocrisy is strong with you fitnatis. On one hand,keep kissing the Misaal Shareef of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and on the other hand cast aspersions on his maqaam on writing Munajaat.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2863

Unread post by james » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:17 pm

byculla wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:02 am

@James - a lot of your post is sarcasm which is not worthy of response. I will not comment on that. You should know you have used Profanity before on this forum. Hope you will improve with time.

It's not that you won't comment on it because of simple examples.It's that you have no defense to it.Go back to the drawing board. Learn the difference between a statement and an instruction.

About the events of 1409 you should know that SMB RA had ordered to put to rest those events and stop talking about it. After wafaat of SMB RA. SKQ RA did NOT bring it up (in response) until your leader Mufaddal's followers started harping about it in majlises presided by MS and with his permission.. I have no further interest in any conversation with you on this 1409H topic.

Don't divert. Understand the nifaaq.

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA said:

“I believed Husain bhai and I unequivocally declared that he and his entire family are innocent of these accusations. I accepted his diyafat, honoured him with a shawl and prayed for his wellbeing.

After having done all this and after all that has transpired till now, if someone is still in doubt as to whether Husain bhai may have lied to me and was subsequently pardoned [even though he lied], then it is tantamount to having doubt in my judgement and the appropriateness of my actions. This stands true regardless of the rank and station of the person harbouring that doubt.”


But 26 years later,Qutbis have the audacity to post this :

Shehzada Mufaddal bhaisaheb immediately accepted their oath—with no other evidence, and without listening to Qutbuddin Mola’s side of the story


You Qutbis should be ashamed of yourself. :x

Saif53
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2864

Unread post by Saif53 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:35 pm

Thank you James for keeping the Qutbi hypocrisy alive.

They'll continue to avoid explaining the Taaj Al Aqaid quote, and how they conveniently avoid conversation on how unsubstantiated KQs and TQs claims are.

They'll just wait until the conversation moves on and it's forgotten.

However, #WeWillNotForget

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2865

Unread post by RedBox » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:25 am

Lesson for Mufaddal and Taher to learn from Imam Hussain saw.


Khali mohti mohti waato ane dawa karwa thi kai nai thatu....panjatan jewa akhlaaq bhi howa joiyye.
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byculla
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:40 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2866

Unread post by byculla » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:58 am

james wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:06 pm
On one hand you question the timing of multiple nuss and on the other hand you don't mind accepting a claim of nass done without any witnesses from 50 years ago by a fallible entity?

If schism would have happened in 1432,make no mistake that Nass diary and the Hospital audio/video (which you yourself called it convincing) would have been revealed at that time but then again never in the lifetime of a Naas,a dawedaar has made a claim. It always happens after the passing away of Saheb e Zaman. Khuzaima most probably manipulated by his sons and daughters into making this nass claim on the basis that only Raudat Taher nass video will be enough to sway the mumineen away from the path of Haq but they forgot that Allah Ta'ala SWT is the best of planners and Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA in his infinite wisdom did multiple Nuss to save his mumineen from the dawedaar's evil agenda. You are reduced to questioning the timing of the multiple Nuss to divert the focus away from the fact that such a document actually exists. On on hand you close your ears when one person is asked to keep it a secret for 50 years and on the other hand you question why Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA asked the shahids to keep it a secret? You have even crossed Biradar in hypocrisy and that says so much about your nonsense.
If my writings were nonsense I know you wouldn't even be responding. So As I understand, your defense in producing the 1388 letter late (or after SMB RA wafaat) is that the witnesses were asked to keep it secret. Then why did QJ reveal his secret nass (in 1426H London) before SMB RA wafaat. ? He was also asked to keep it secret but he revealed it ? He revealed this few months after June 2011 The cromwell video itself was revealed not immediately, not in 40 days of lanat majlises but more than 4 months after SMB RA wafaat. I had brought this up at that time also (and numerous others). Didn't get any answers that time and I don't expect it now either.
If you do not have any details why would you even bring it into the discussion?
Because thats SKQ RA assertion and his interpretation of dawat text. I believe it and will continue to quote from it.
Like I have said before,I am not interested in your personal opinions casting aspersions on the amal of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.You claim that he couldn't have written the 72 bayt of Munajat after the stroke,whereas I am saying what is 72 bayt for an infallible entity whose every single breath is Munajat! Here's another free lesson on Nifaq.

Qutbis on their youtube channel have uploaded a video titled Syedna Burhanuddin's Last Ashara which has salami video from Ashara 1432H. Now if 1432H was the last Ashara then why do you Qutbis keep saying Khuzaima was Mazoon for 50 years? That should be corrected to 47 years.

The stench of hypocrisy is strong with you fitnatis. On one hand,keep kissing the Misaal Shareef of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and on the other hand cast aspersions on his maqaam on writing Munajaat.
Again you avoided directly answering the question about 2013 munajat if SMB composed it in that year itself and thats fine. I know its inconvenient for you to answer with Yes (which is Kothar's stance). Thanks for bringing up that SKQ RA kissed misal sharif from SMB RA. It shows and you bringing it up continues to show his deep reverence for SMB RA's doa mubarak much to your chagrin. It actually makes you a hypocrite.

I personally don't believe that misaal was written by SMB RA (in the condition he was in 2013). It was however in line with previous misaal shareef of doa mubarak issued by SMB RA. SKQ kissing it is indication of his deep ikhlaas for his Dai.
Last edited by byculla on Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:40 am, edited 8 times in total.

byculla
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:40 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2867

Unread post by byculla » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:08 am

Saif53 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:44 am 1. Well, the Qutbis approached Prof. Devin Stewart to help with their interpretations, so maybe you could ask him for his translation. Since he's an "expert".

2. The text doesn't refer to "Dai and Izn".
It mentions the words Izn & Itlaaq. Both are used in the same context in the text, i.e permission to teach.

3. If you don't agree, then just ask the Qutbis for the translations of the first and last lines of that Chapter 98 from Taaj al Aqaid.
Here, let me help you:
@Saif53 - on (1) As I have already told you the maqam of mazoon is also an indication of his high knowledge. No bigger "expert" than him.
On (2) and (3) Again why should I ask them ? They have given me their interpretation and I believed it. You gave me a counter response which I did read and responded that its your interpretation and context.( Again read my previous posts.) I would believe SMB RA mazoon's interpretation over you. Thats my stance and I have made it sufficiently clear.

Saif53
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2868

Unread post by Saif53 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:16 pm

byculla wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:08 am
Saif53 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:44 am 1. Well, the Qutbis approached Prof. Devin Stewart to help with their interpretations, so maybe you could ask him for his translation. Since he's an "expert".

2. The text doesn't refer to "Dai and Izn".
It mentions the words Izn & Itlaaq. Both are used in the same context in the text, i.e permission to teach.

3. If you don't agree, then just ask the Qutbis for the translations of the first and last lines of that Chapter 98 from Taaj al Aqaid.
Here, let me help you:
@Saif53 - on (1) As I have already told you the maqam of mazoon is also an indication of his high knowledge. No bigger "expert" than him.
On (2) and (3) Again why should I ask them ? They have given me their interpretation and I believed it. You gave me a counter response which I did read and responded that its your interpretation and context.( Again read my previous posts.) I would believe SMB RA mazoon's interpretation over you. Thats my stance and I have made it sufficiently clear.
1. This claim was by Taher after his alleged succession. Not KQ. So, your argument that it's the Mazoons knowledge, doesn't apply here. (Taher wasn't KQ's Mazoon)

2. Taher is quoting something that's not in the text:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/05 ... h.html?m=1

Or, is Taher referring to another text? Or another manuscript? Can you explain?

3. Can you share their interpretation? And when you do, please share the the text following their interpretation, so there's some clarity on yours and their position.

yfm
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2869

Unread post by yfm » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:59 pm

Are we so rich with time, that we still want to waste our times discussing these useless topics. What if the right dai was chosen by his predecessor but could not do the job, would all of us like monkey wear a hat, or monkey drop the hat would follow suit.

Let us forget about the right dais succession and focus on the RIGHT dai for the job.

Do we have a dai who has done right by us?

How many firkahs? how many sects? remember the jews in the holocaust? where was God and why did he not protect those humans who were burnt alive.

Forget about the imams, the dais. Let us worry about us the people of the bohra heritage.

Let us discuss great ideas and forget these little talks.

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2870

Unread post by RedBox » Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:48 pm

FUNNY THING IS GAIB NAA JAANKAR COULD NOT KNOW CORONO IS COMING AND HE HAD TO HIDE IN HOLE FOR MONTHS AND NOW HE HAS TO RUN TO SRILANKA FOR SAFETY, WHAT HAPPEN WITH SHIFA POWER. NOT WORKING I GUESS.


IF BOHRAS CANT SEE YET THEY WILL NEVER.

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2871

Unread post by RedBox » Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:50 pm

yfm wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:59 pm Are we so rich with time, that we still want to waste our times discussing these useless topics. What if the right dai was chosen by his predecessor but could not do the job, would all of us like monkey wear a hat, or monkey drop the hat would follow suit.

Let us forget about the right dais succession and focus on the RIGHT dai for the job.

Do we have a dai who has done right by us?

How many firkahs? how many sects? remember the jews in the holocaust? where was God and why did he not protect those humans who were burnt alive.

Forget about the imams, the dais. Let us worry about us the people of the bohra heritage.

Let us discuss great ideas and forget these little talks.
do not make istesaar on Allah just because you have limited knowledge and you see these thugs looting in the name of ALLAH

ALLAH has bigger plans and he is perfect executor. just fight with the evil and ALLAH knows his job well.

awakenedsoul
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:45 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2872

Unread post by awakenedsoul » Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:31 am

yfm wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:59 pm Are we so rich with time, that we still want to waste our times discussing these useless topics.
Although I don't agree with the rest of your statements I second the above. It is amusing to see both sides arguing round and round in circles wasting time while their masters live in luxury and probably don't even care.
It is a simple matter of regarding all these dais as ordinary human beings and not divinely inspired. Everything then becomes crystal clear. Unfortunately most bohras refuse to entertain this thought for even a moment.

alivasan
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2873

Unread post by alivasan » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:45 pm

awakenedsoul wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:31 am
yfm wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:59 pm Are we so rich with time, that we still want to waste our times discussing these useless topics.
Although I don't agree with the rest of your statements I second the above. It is amusing to see both sides arguing round and round in circles wasting time while their masters live in luxury and probably don't even care.
It is a simple matter of regarding all these dais as ordinary human beings and not divinely inspired. Everything then becomes crystal clear. Unfortunately most bohras refuse to entertain this thought for even a moment.
"Unfortunately most bohras refuse to entertain this thought for even a moment.,,, "

Cant agree less...Is it not just coz of brainwashing happening for several generations..? Next generation will blame todays generations for keeping mum & fooling around...

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2874

Unread post by RedBox » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:46 am

as long as dawodi bohra remains jhahil and do not understand reality the extortion and hijack of dawat will continue

RedBox
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2875

Unread post by RedBox » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:37 am

the real pity is on taheri gang they know very well that Burhanuddin had destroyed their master and ruined his dream to become a dai by his dishonesty but yet they have no option but to respect him :lol: because if they speak any thing against Burhanuddin no idiot Bohra will consider them.

malgudidays
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2876

Unread post by malgudidays » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:25 pm

RedBox wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:37 am the real pity is on taheri gang they know very well that Burhanuddin had destroyed their master and ruined his dream to become a dai by his dishonesty but yet they have no option but to respect him :lol: because if they speak any thing against Burhanuddin no idiot Bohra will consider them.
Spot-on :lol:

Sheikh_Sajjad_Husain
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2877

Unread post by Sheikh_Sajjad_Husain » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:54 pm

Gautam Patel has been removed from the case.. Interesting... Modi-connection paying-off..

When Khuzaima side was being grilled an upright and honest Judge was presiding over the case.. as soon as that got over.. Jugde gets assigned to some other case...

Rashida saifuddin
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:01 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2878

Unread post by Rashida saifuddin » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:55 am

As expected.

100 billion dollars worth bohra properties and funds cant be given up like that.

juzer esmail
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2879

Unread post by juzer esmail » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:05 am

Is there any news links to this report?

Moiz_Dhaanu
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2880

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:40 am

juzer esmail wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:05 am Is there any news links to this report?
If you guys believed that DMBS was not responsible for the "failed attempt" of the bribing scheme ,which his right hand man "lacewala" had orchestrated to get justiice Patel out of the case , Then you are free to believe this above information too.... :mrgreen:
DMBS: Dawedaar Mufaddal bhai saheb