Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

[yfm]

That YN caused so much problems that exist up till to day.

If he comes back in the mainstream, then the fate of SMS will be doomed once again and many many more will leave his jamat.

[objectiveobserver53]

Since our Imam Hussein days and Waaz are virtual, of course it gives me the opportunity to watch them. I feel sad that our dais have brought us to these state of so many divisions.

I realize it is power and money that has tempted all of them to vie for power. Also the Kothars who have also used these opportunity to make money for themselves.

It is sad, because our dawat has so many spiritual qualities and have steadfastly helped us to remain steadfast with our iman, our faith in Islam. After all Islam and it's history has been our life blood.

I must say that some progressive like the Mamujees in Kenya were money hungry themselves and believed that their wealth and money could enable them to fight our Dais. The children of the Seyedna Taher Saifuddin no doubt stirred up a lot of trouble because they would not let their egos be challenged.

But when I hear Seyedna Muhammad Burhanuddin lament the past trial and tribulations, and his eloquence, I no doubt get swayed to the dawat again and again.

There were too many challenges that he faced, but he was after all the best spiritual leader we had during his life. No question that his enemies were no match for his intellect. Only if they had learned to reconcile and not fight Seyedna Burhannuddin whom I still believe was a reasonable and just spiritual leader and the rich and wealthy because they challenged him, he had to use the iron fist. But the Kothar did not help either.
na
What I want to say is, my two cents of what ever you may claim it to be, is that Seyedna Burhanuddin as the dai had the right to change the nass if he chose during his life time. The Seyedna Khozema should not claim that once Nass had been made, it can not be revoked. I am beginning to believe that is Baloney. The spiritual dai can change the nass if in his wisdom, he believes another person could lead the dawat better.

This fight in the courts in now just an intellectual exercise, as the British would say, a fight for the "Lords". If Seyedna Burhanudding wanted to change the Nass, why should he not be able to do it.

If the religion was governed by Seyedna Mufaddal and left the adminsitration to another branch, I would continue to follow the dawat of Seyedna Mufaddal.

I am just to frustrated with the economic power in the hands of the dai. Let him have the spiritual power and let the administration be run by educated branch of his choosing who would be accountable to the Bohra community.

Brother YFM, The question is not whether SMB should be allowed to change nass but rather would he and did he? Did you hear him make a declaration of nass? You do know that MS did sajda to SKQ. You are an old timer so you also know that for the first 25 years of SMB’s dawat it was a well known fact that STS had prepared SKQ for the rutba of Dai. Did SMB prepare MS? Listening to MS, do you believe that he was prepared for the rutba of Dai? He sounds exactly like who he is. A seventh grade dropout and a man controlled by his wife and the ideology of Hate perpetrated by her father. Do you believe SMB would ever disobey his naas and declare nass on someone else?

If nass can be changed, how will you believe the Dai the next time he makes a declaration? If you are convinced about following Muffy, you may not have a choice. One day you will need to believe one thing and the next day the exact opposite.

Having said that, if your mind is made up, I wish you peace. There is no force in religion - you do need to make your own choices. That is what STF teaches.

[Human_KW]

I agree with you on good changes happening in Dawat in terms of administration, social welfare and accountability... recent example being Sheikh Obri caught red handed by Syedi Husain Bs efforts... but please don't eat whatever is dished out to you and believe the current set up to be infallible.. ofcourse it is the best option for the mumineen of hind as it is mansub towards Imam(as) of Bani Fatema(as) and no bidaa has yet happened in Tariqa.. although can't say the same about Aqeeda(too much gulu and Shirk).... but I hope with time things will be ironed out for good and a balance would be stuck...

obri has been left off by the order of khidar bs and badrul jamali--brothers of arrogant bu saheba.
everyone has been told to not disucss anymore of it.
the command is WAAT NE DABAAVI DO.

Hi , does anyone has any real information about SHK OBRI and the case and finally did he escape or any charges because I have heard the message from Jamaat was sent out on ITS to Kuwait mumineen that hes innocent and its all rumours ?

charges I have heard that hes removed from top commander position but his chamchaas still keep posting on burhani guards international page on instagram his pictures only, looks like the page admin is from the same family since every 2nd post has obri in it aand also the admin is following mostly obris and cousins

[yfm]

Bhai objectiveobserver53, I understand your position. I believed the same as you did once. But now, we have to move on. I do not agree with the power of dais and how they are given the nass any more. Gone are the days when the dais were real dais. These days it has a lot to do with power and wealth. No body cares about small people any more. If you have the money, you join the club. if you don't you do matam and hope for the best. Look at the STS family and how they hate each other. Listen to in between lines in the waaz. It will make you feel sad that even the sacrifices of Imam Hussein are being used by these dais to cling to power or vie for power.

[Qadir]

Since our Imam Hussein days and Waaz are virtual, of course it gives me the opportunity to watch them. I feel sad that our dais have brought us to these state of so many divisions.

I realize it is power and money that has tempted all of them to vie for power. Also the Kothars who have also used these opportunity to make money for themselves.

It is sad, because our dawat has so many spiritual qualities and have steadfastly helped us to remain steadfast with our iman, our faith in Islam. After all Islam and it's history has been our life blood.

I must say that some progressive like the Mamujees in Kenya were money hungry themselves and believed that their wealth and money could enable them to fight our Dais. The children of the Seyedna Taher Saifuddin no doubt stirred up a lot of trouble because they would not let their egos be challenged.

But when I hear Seyedna Muhammad Burhanuddin lament the past trial and tribulations, and his eloquence, I no doubt get swayed to the dawat again and again.

There were too many challenges that he faced, but he was after all the best spiritual leader we had during his life. No question that his enemies were no match for his intellect. Only if they had learned to reconcile and not fight Seyedna Burhannuddin whom I still believe was a reasonable and just spiritual leader and the rich and wealthy because they challenged him, he had to use the iron fist. But the Kothar did not help either.
na
What I want to say is, my two cents of what ever you may claim it to be, is that Seyedna Burhanuddin as the dai had the right to change the nass if he chose during his life time. The Seyedna Khozema should not claim that once Nass had been made, it can not be revoked. I am beginning to believe that is Baloney. The spiritual dai can change the nass if in his wisdom, he believes another person could lead the dawat better.

This fight in the courts in now just an intellectual exercise, as the British would say, a fight for the "Lords". If Seyedna Burhanudding wanted to change the Nass, why should he not be able to do it.

If the religion was governed by Seyedna Mufaddal and left the adminsitration to another branch, I would continue to follow the dawat of Seyedna Mufaddal.

I am just to frustrated with the economic power in the hands of the dai. Let him have the spiritual power and let the administration be run by educated branch of his choosing who would be accountable to the Bohra community.

Brother YFM, The question is not whether SMB should be allowed to change nass but rather would he and did he? Did you hear him make a declaration of nass? You do know that MS did sajda to SKQ. You are an old timer so you also know that for the first 25 years of SMB’s dawat it was a well known fact that STS had prepared SKQ for the rutba of Dai. Did SMB prepare MS? Listening to MS, do you believe that he was prepared for the rutba of Dai? He sounds exactly like who he is. A seventh grade dropout and a man controlled by his wife and the ideology of Hate perpetrated by her father. Do you believe SMB would ever disobey his naas and declare nass on someone else?

If nass can be changed, how will you believe the Dai the next time he makes a declaration? If you are convinced about following Muffy, you may not have a choice. One day you will need to believe one thing and the next day the exact opposite.

Having said that, if your mind is made up, I wish you peace. There is no force in religion - you do need to make your own choices. That is what STF teaches.

I will never ask you any other question if you can explain this concern of mine. I won't even ask a follow-up whatever your answer might be.

Why did TF decide to bring KQ to Mumbai and dafan him 11 days after wafaat? And california laws equire bodies to be embalmed in order to be transported. So did he do that or went against the law or spend the zakat money to pay off the authorities?

Did KQ fail to "prepare" TF just like how you claim SMS was not?

I hope you can understand that there was no elaborate plan, or a conspiracy. KQ was just tolerated and at the end of the day his subordinate for nearly 20 years (Syedi Hussain bs) has Mazoon title on his qabr whereas his qabr has his embalmed body (considering it was even brought from USA) in Thane no mumineen will ever go to.

[objectiveobserver53]

Brother YFM, The question is not whether SMB should be allowed to change nass but rather would he and did he? Did you hear him make a declaration of nass? You do know that MS did sajda to SKQ. You are an old timer so you also know that for the first 25 years of SMB’s dawat it was a well known fact that STS had prepared SKQ for the rutba of Dai. Did SMB prepare MS? Listening to MS, do you believe that he was prepared for the rutba of Dai? He sounds exactly like who he is. A seventh grade dropout and a man controlled by his wife and the ideology of Hate perpetrated by her father. Do you believe SMB would ever disobey his naas and declare nass on someone else?

If nass can be changed, how will you believe the Dai the next time he makes a declaration? If you are convinced about following Muffy, you may not have a choice. One day you will need to believe one thing and the next day the exact opposite.

Having said that, if your mind is made up, I wish you peace. There is no force in religion - you do need to make your own choices. That is what STF teaches.

I will never ask you any other question if you can explain this concern of mine. I won't even ask a follow-up whatever your answer might be.

Why did TF decide to bring KQ to Mumbai and dafan him 11 days after wafaat? And california laws equire bodies to be embalmed in order to be transported. So did he do that or went against the law or spend the zakat money to pay off the authorities?

Did KQ fail to "prepare" TF just like how you claim SMS was not?

I hope you can understand that there was no elaborate plan, or a conspiracy. KQ was just tolerated and at the end of the day his subordinate for nearly 20 years (Syedi Hussain bs) has Mazoon title on his qabr whereas his qabr has his embalmed body (considering it was even brought from USA) in Thane no mumineen will ever go to.

That’s an easy one to answer.
STF was fulfilling his father’s and Naas’ wish. Just as every mansoos is bound to fulfill the wish of their naas. This shows that STF was prepared by SKQ in the best possible way.
Unlike you and your master we do not believe that the wishes of a Dai are “irrelevant” as Muffy claims in court. One wonders how many wishes of SMB also, has Muffy considered irrelevant.

Did SMB tell you that he only tolerated SKQ? Have you seen the Muanaqa video of the 100mi milad? He stopped Muffy and asked SKQ to come forward. Did he say “wink wink - I will take SKQ’s name in misaq but wink wink you don’t have to?” In fact SMB took the guy who stopped taking SKQ’s name to the cleaners and thrashed him publicly.

As for the other blah blah blah....who cares. If numbers were so important, we would be crying for the thousands, not the 72. Use your brains and make relevant arguments.

Oh yeah and please figure out how to do a broadcast from India!

[yfm]

Bhai objectiveobserver53, I do not mean to be rude when I say we have to move on because the lingering question is that we do know that SMS did sajda to SKQ and as an old timer I also know that for the first 25 years of SMB’s dawat it was a well known fact that STS had prepared SKQ for the rutba of Dai. However, Seyedna Kutbuddin did not prepare the STF, because he did not know what was to come, i.e. the betrayal if that was the case. So we have the case that STF was also not prepared and yet he is doing a great job of Dai. Also SMS was not prepared but he is also doing a great job of the Dai. So what do I do? I can wait and see what happens or join SMS even though I am weary of his deceased Father-in-law. If I have to choose between the sons of Seyedna Kutbuddin and Seydena Mohammed Burhannudin, of course my heart tells me to follow SMS because I loved Seyedna Mohammed Burhanuddin and I am sure you did too.

[objectiveobserver53]

Bhai objectiveobserver53, I do not mean to be rude when I say we have to move on because the lingering question is that we do know that SMS did sajda to SKQ and as an old timer I also know that for the first 25 years of SMB’s dawat it was a well known fact that STS had prepared SKQ for the rutba of Dai. However, Seyedna Kutbuddin did not prepare the STF, because he did not know what was to come, i.e. the betrayal if that was the case. So we have the case that STF was also not prepared and yet he is doing a great job of Dai. Also SMS was not prepared but he is also doing a great job of the Dai. So what do I do? I can wait and see what happens or join SMS even though I am weary of his deceased Father-in-law. If I have to choose between the sons of Seyedna Kutbuddin and Seydena Mohammed Burhannudin, of course my heart tells me to follow SMS because I loved Seyedna Mohammed Burhanuddin and I am sure you did too.

I loved SMB, still do. For exactly that reason, I have to follow his rightful successor. But I am sure you have your reasons for doing what is convenient. Peace to you brother.

Also I have no idea what you mean when you say SKQ did not prepare STF! As you can see, and by your own admission, STF is extremely well prepared to lead the people.

[Ambassador_Mumbai]

I agree with you on good changes happening in Dawat in terms of administration, social welfare and accountability... recent example being Sheikh Obri caught red handed by Syedi Husain Bs efforts... but please don't eat whatever is dished out to you and believe the current set up to be infallible.. ofcourse it is the best option for the mumineen of hind as it is mansub towards Imam(as) of Bani Fatema(as) and no bidaa has yet happened in Tariqa.. although can't say the same about Aqeeda(too much gulu and Shirk).... but I hope with time things will be ironed out for good and a balance would be stuck...

obri has been left off by the order of khidar bs and badrul jamali--brothers of arrogant bu saheba.
everyone has been told to not disucss anymore of it.
the command is WAAT NE DABAAVI DO.

His threats were too real to be taken lightly, from what I have heard he arm twisted them by threatening to join STF camp and revealing all the insider info related to money laundering to ED...

One has to admire him for playing his cards right...

[Ambassador_Mumbai]

obri has been left off by the order of khidar bs and badrul jamali--brothers of arrogant bu saheba.
everyone has been told to not disucss anymore of it.
the command is WAAT NE DABAAVI DO.

Hi , does anyone has any real information about SHK OBRI and the case and finally did he escape or any charges because I have heard the message from Jamaat was sent out on ITS to Kuwait mumineen that hes innocent and its all rumours ?

charges I have heard that hes removed from top commander position but his chamchaas still keep posting on burhani guards international page on instagram his pictures only, looks like the page admin is from the same family since every 2nd post has obri in it aand also the admin is following mostly obris and cousins

Obri use to give lot of business to these chamchas through various Jamaat projects... hence all the co or sub-beneficiaries still want him where he was..... or may be where he still is..

[yfm]

Except for Bhai Qadir, how many of you seriously believe that the Dai will take you to the Janat? If so will STF take you to a different janat or will SMS take you to the same janat as STF? If both Dais will take you to the same janat, then hopefully you will all meet there but then you will be in a different part of the janat or will you be in the same janat with the same attitude of barat. Will this barat cause potential problems to the angels. If so then Shaitan will have got in to the janat through the back door and of course then, all the problems can be blamed on the Shaitan.

Please provide your answers before Ashura so we can repent and have our sins forgiven.

[SBM]

Except for Bhai Qadir, how many of you seriously believe that the Dai will take you to the Janat? If so will STF take you to a different janat or will SMS take you to the same janat as STF? If both Dais will take you to the same janat, then hopefully you will all meet there but then you will be in a different part of the janat or will you be in the same janat with the same attitude of barat. Will this barat cause potential problems to the angels. If so then Shaitan will have got in to the janat through the back door and of course then, all the problems can be blamed on the Shaitan.

Please provide your answers before Ashura so we can repent and have our sins forgiven.

What guarantees you have that they will go to Jannat- I mean Dai since we donot know who is the rightful Dai and Imam is too afraid to come out and decide and he is going to let a HINDU Judge decide, and by their own accounts in Waiz Dai tell us that Hindus are going to Jahannum so if a Hindu decides a true Dai then you know where the true Dai is going as he would be appointed by a Jhannammi and oh well a false Dai is already going you know where

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Except for Bhai Qadir, how many of you seriously believe that the Dai will take you to the Janat? If so will STF take you to a different janat or will SMS take you to the same janat as STF? If both Dais will take you to the same janat, then hopefully you will all meet there but then you will be in a different part of the janat or will you be in the same janat with the same attitude of barat. Will this barat cause potential problems to the angels. If so then Shaitan will have got in to the janat through the back door and of course then, all the problems can be blamed on the Shaitan.

Please provide your answers before Ashura so we can repent and have our sins forgiven.

I grant it to you. You are being tongue-in-cheek funny.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

If we (Bohra's) believe taht we are the only folks going to jannah, should we not be doing Dawah to the whole of humankind - telling them to follow the dai, for their salvation.

However, we Bohras never do any dawah. Isn't that selfish !

[yfm]

How can any sensible human kind listen to us when we have not got our act together. We have our house divided from inside. We have no unity of purpose and too many chiefs but not many indians. This is what happened to Islam after our beloved Prophet (PBUH) passed away. So it is not knew. The old adage is power and money will only be as good to you as you are to yourself (your soul, your nafs). What we are taught to give away, duniya for akhirat is what keeps us in duniya by our dais. Ironically, the dais want us to give away our money to them so we can go to heaven. But they do not want to give it away for the welfare and well-being of our community and thus they are stuck in duniya but promise us Akhirat (Salvation). They make us do matam but do not inspire us to be virtuous.

[bohra_manus]

If we (Bohra's) believe taht we are the only folks going to jannah, should we not be doing Dawah to the whole of humankind - telling them to follow the dai, for their salvation.

However, we Bohras never do any dawah. Isn't that selfish !

May be there is limited space in Jannah, don't want to take every Tom, Dick, and Harry there.
May be the Dai(s) know the best.

[SBM]

If we (Bohra's) believe taht we are the only folks going to jannah, should we not be doing Dawah to the whole of humankind - telling them to follow the dai, for their salvation.

However, we Bohras never do any dawah. Isn't that selfish !

DCP
if we do Dawah and everyone enters Jannah then Kothari Goons will loose exclusivity to entrance and would not be able to start another
SBUT project there

[yfm]

Please check out the waaz of STF and SMS. STF is authentic while SMS is using those of his father and grandfather. Not that the father and grandfather are not important. But as the current Dai we would like to see SMS Shaan as does STF shows his shaan. Please provide your feedback as we continue to evaluate these two.

[objectiveobserver53]

Except for Bhai Qadir, how many of you seriously believe that the Dai will take you to the Janat? If so will STF take you to a different janat or will SMS take you to the same janat as STF? If both Dais will take you to the same janat, then hopefully you will all meet there but then you will be in a different part of the janat or will you be in the same janat with the same attitude of barat. Will this barat cause potential problems to the angels. If so then Shaitan will have got in to the janat through the back door and of course then, all the problems can be blamed on the Shaitan.

Please provide your answers before Ashura so we can repent and have our sins forgiven.

What guarantees you have that they will go to Jannat- I mean Dai since we donot know who is the rightful Dai and Imam is too afraid to come out and decide and he is going to let a HINDU Judge decide, and by their own accounts in Waiz Dai tell us that Hindus are going to Jahannum so if a Hindu decides a true Dai then you know where the true Dai is going as he would be appointed by a Jhannammi and oh well a false Dai is already going you know where

SBM you should really get over this Hindu Judge mind block. The dai was appointed by SMB. The judge will rule on who he believes is speaking the truth.
I find it hard to believe that you live in America and you find Hindus so abhorrent. I bet you are the type that marches for black lives matter but you think Hindus are going to hell. Your world view is a bit out of whack. Perhaps if you took a Sabaq or two, you may improve your puerile understanding of what our Awliyaullah teach us about Hindus and others and your childish view of heaven and hell and who is going where may be set right.

[SBM]

Objectiveiobserver
I have no issue with Hindus it is your Current Dai and his Aaamil who say in Waiz NOT TO EAT FOOD COOKED BY HINDU but will accept a Judgement for succession-- How hypocritical of you

Perhaps if you took a Sabaq or two,

So seems like you have taken some, kindly share the knowledge you acquired to educate an uneducated person as I am not allowed to attend the Secretive Meetings and I refused to attend such learning if I can NOT share with others or discuss

[yfm]

We have to remove the dais for good. The majority have to rise up as the Indians did with the guidance from Mahatma Gandhi.

No dais, no Kothars, no Sheikhs, no chamchas. All these have a vested interest in their position and will do nothing untl removed.

Long live the Progressive Dawoody Bohras.

[objectiveobserver53]

Objectiveiobserver
I have no issue with Hindus it is your Current Dai and his Aaamil who say in Waiz NOT TO EAT FOOD COOKED BY HINDU but will accept a Judgement for succession-- How hypocritical of you

Perhaps if you took a Sabaq or two,

So seems like you have taken some, kindly share the knowledge you acquired to educate an uneducated person as I am not allowed to attend the Secretive Meetings and I refused to attend such learning if I can NOT share with others or discuss

Let’s just say that Hindus don’t always go to hell and that the concept of heaven and hell are not a binary concept. There is a checklist to get to “heaven.” Many Hindus can come closer to checking all the boxes in their lifetime than some Bohras will and their progress towards the end goal can be such that a Hindu can leap frog a Bohra born. Mind you I did not say mumin. A bohra can do enough damage to his soul in his lifetime such that it can take him backwards. Your choices in this life have a large part to play in determining which direction you head in.

How’s that for a haqiqat for dummies? I think I did it without breaking any rules.

SBM you sound like a good sort to me. But you do have some preconceived notions that are quite off. For instance you always lump STF in the same bucket as MS and assign all the evils going on in the MS world to him. I suggest that if you are truly curious, you will seek out a teacher more qualified than I and gain the knowledge.

[SBM]

Br Objectiveobserver
You are relatively new to this forum, many on this forum know me and what I do,So that you know, I am very much involved with Inter Faith Organizations in USA at all levels
why are you afraid to discuss what you learned in Secret Sabaq and one who is no longer in SMS camp and loyal to him but still afraid to reveal what he learnt in SMS Sabaqs. If you already broke your Misaq or Oath to SMS then anything you learnt or any OATH you took with his camp is MOOT so come out of your shell and tell us what you learnt in Secretive Sabq
And can you share your CHECK LIST to go to heaven, does that include doing SAJDA to your DAI which I am sure you were asked to do before you switched your allegiance to STF

[yfm]

Let us not worry about what individuals do. Why should we? When there are so many sheep among the Bohras who are willing to blindly follow the Dai's, and this blind faith is holding us back to make progress both at the individual level and at the community level, and this blind faith lets the Kothar and the chamchas keep us stuck to the ground, bully us, then that is what we should worry about.

Each and Every one of us here, had suffered at the hands of the Kothar or the Dais or members of the dai family, and that pain brought us here. Otherwise we would have been there with the Dais. Whether it is STF or SMS, they were all one and would have stayed together had the chism not appeared in their lives for the pursuit of their ambitions.

Wake up and let us join hands with the progressive bohras to bring a light at the end of this vicious tunnel. Even our Allah will question our Imaan, if we don't.

[objectiveobserver53]

Br Objectiveobserver
You are relatively new to this forum, many on this forum know me and what I do,So that you know, I am very much involved with Inter Faith Organizations in USA at all levels
why are you afraid to discuss what you learned in Secret Sabaq and one who is no longer in SMS camp and loyal to him but still afraid to reveal what he learnt in SMS Sabaqs. If you already broke your Misaq or Oath to SMS then anything you learnt or any OATH you took with his camp is MOOT so come out of your shell and tell us what you learnt in Secretive Sabq
And can you share your CHECK LIST to go to heaven, does that include doing SAJDA to your DAI which I am sure you were asked to do before you switched your allegiance to STF

I have no idea what you are rambling on about. I was never in misaq of MS. People are not afraid to reveal what they learn in Sabaq. Sabaqs are not secretive. At least not in the STF world. I have attended Sabaq in SMB’s daawat as well as SKQ’s and STF’s. I do not reveal what I am taught in the Sabaq out of respect for the rules of that learning and that knowledge and I not want to impart it in a manner and in a forum that would prevent a proper pursuit of truth and an appropriate explanation. More so I am afraid to propagate any mistakes in my understanding because I am not a teacher but rather a casual student at best.

Also sajda to the dai is not on the checklist. Maarefat of the imam is. Misaq to STF does not require a sajda to him.

You are so hung up on on the little stuff. Think big. Otherwise you will be stuck in the binary world of heaven and hell and be sending your Hindu friends to hell and nitpicking about whether or not you can do sajda to a human......

[objectiveobserver53]

Let us not worry about what individuals do. Why should we? When there are so many sheep among the Bohras who are willing to blindly follow the Dai's, and this blind faith is holding us back to make progress both at the individual level and at the community level, and this blind faith lets the Kothar and the chamchas keep us stuck to the ground, bully us, then that is what we should worry about.

Each and Every one of us here, had suffered at the hands of the Kothar or the Dais or members of the dai family, and that pain brought us here. Otherwise we would have been there with the Dais. Whether it is STF or SMS, they were all one and would have stayed together had the chism not appeared in their lives for the pursuit of their ambitions.

Wake up and let us join hands with the progressive bohras to bring a light at the end of this vicious tunnel. Even our Allah will question our Imaan, if we don't.

In the last 3 days you have gone from accepting MS as your dai to doubting him in favor of STF and now you want to become a progressive. When are you converting to Bahaiism?

[yfm]

My Dear Bhai ObjectiveObserver53, I have not accepted any dai yet and as Asgarali Bhai Engineer said, these dais will have to give me raza for anything I do. Moreover, most of the time, I will have to get raza through their bhaisahebs or chamchas since it is very unlikely that I will be getting raza directly from the Dais. My raza is from our Allah as long I am following the Koran and the principles of Islam. I am just indulging in these discussions to learn something from the brethrens feedback such as yours.

After what Seydena Taher Saifuddin did to Ali Asgar bhai Engineer, you know what the dais can do in the name of Allah. So Allah help me be thoughtful and not thoughtless follower in the hope that I will end up in Jannah.

[SBM]

So Objectiveobserver
You are portraying SMB and SKQ as Hollier then thou so let us take one at a time
It was SMB who was Dai and SKQ who was Mazoon and during their rein
-Taizoon Shakir- a family member who revealed Zahir Batin Tapes to expose corruption was beaten up and he needed Police Protection to get out (BTW you should know that he ditched SMS camp and joined STF and then found out that STF is NO different than SMS so rejoined SMS camp again to become Aaamil and get back all the privileges' of Saifee Mahal for his wife and Son)
-Asghar Ali Engineer was beaten up and his residence ransacked because he was on same flight as SMB
-Women in Udaipur were roughed up while SMB was visiting Udaipur and SKQ was still Mazoon
-Zehra Cyclewala had to endure all kind of harassments again SMB was Dai and SKQ was Mazoon
Many more can be listed
Coming to STF and his family
Why STF did not BAN FGM till court ordered, Was this an Ilham from Hidden Imam or a NON MUSLIM judge forced upon tem
His sister who is well known Islamic and Fatimid Scholar never spoke against FGM nor the BARAAT declared on many innocent families as well treatment of Women under SMB while SKQ was Mazoon
Before he became DAI, how many Foundations STF and his family ran and how much they spent on needy people USING THEIR OWN FUNDS-NOT COLLECTED FROM COMMUNITY AS WAJEBAAT
Again let us not make them something they are NOT. they enjoyed the Aayash life in Saifee Mahal and when commission was reduced, they realized to go and become RELIGIOUS

About your other posting

People are not afraid to reveal what they learn in Sabaq. Sabaqs are not secretive.

So why you need RAZA to even discuss with your own Spouses and Parents

I do not reveal what I am taught in the Sabaq out of respect for the rules of that learning

Can NOT have both ways, why the RULES if they are NOT SECRETIVE, when you go to Universities for higher learning, they do not tell you not to share your knowledge

I not want to impart it in a manner and in a forum that would prevent a proper pursuit of truth and an appropriate explanation.

Again if you can NOT explain what you learnt- then you did NOT understand anything or you did not ask to explain in simple language or too afraid to question, pick whichever you prefer

More so I am afraid to propagate any mistakes in my understanding because I am not a teacher but rather a casual student at best.

If Jamea students can be put on Obhat and Waiz duties during Moharrum and who are still students- why not you??
Take your time

[yfm]

My dear brethren, this is a progressive dawoody Bohra site. There is no need to defend or attack the STF or SMS. Progressive Dawoody Bohra do not care about these two dais that is why this is their site. Don't you think objectiveobserver53 and SBM should create their own site?

[SBM]

My dear brethren, this is a progressive dawoody Bohra site. There is no need to defend or attack the STF or SMS. Progressive Dawoody Bohra do not care about these two dais that is why this is their site. Don't you think objectiveobserver53 and SBM should create their own site?

Please enlighten us what should we be discussing here