Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

[yfm]

Is Rashida Saifuddin waking up now? The present Dais have already taken all that and what is more, we bohras still worship them and waste our precious time debating about their existence!

[Qadir]

Is Rashida Saifuddin waking up now? The present Dais have already taken all that and what is more, we bohras still worship them and waste our precious time debating about their existence!

I like how you say they've taken up bohra properties but it's you who get all worked up instead of actual bohras who you admit still worship the dai.
Now wouldn't it be sane that it be left upto bohras of what happens with properties that they alone are concerned with. If you want to hold on to your properties that's your choice.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Is Rashida Saifuddin waking up now? The present Dais have already taken all that and what is more, we bohras still worship them and waste our precious time debating about their existence!

I like how you say they've taken up bohra properties but it's you who get all worked up instead of actual bohras who you admit still worship the dai.
Now wouldn't it be sane that it be left upto bohras of what happens with properties that they alone are concerned with. If you want to hold on to your properties that's your choice.

are Rashida Saifuddin and yfm not Bohras? So they have every right to be engaged and concerned about it.

[Qadir]

I like how you say they've taken up bohra properties but it's you who get all worked up instead of actual bohras who you admit still worship the dai.
Now wouldn't it be sane that it be left upto bohras of what happens with properties that they alone are concerned with. If you want to hold on to your properties that's your choice.

are Rashida Saifuddin and yfm not Bohras? So they have every right to be engaged and concerned about it.

Being a bohra is not just wearing a topi or rida or eating dal chaval palidu.
Its about mohabbat of dai and doing what he says. Its about going to ashara waaz, its about attending online majlis, its about going to his hazrat for maghferat and barakat. Its about believing in Imam and in his absence accepting the fact that dai is sole benefactor of everything in dawat. Its about having belief that whatever we earn is because of duas of duat and giving to dawat is going to uplift our status, if not here then in hereafter.
If you don't believe all this, which is mentioned in kitaabs by Syedna Qadi Noman, Syedna Idris Imaduddin and Syedi Sadiqali Saheb then you are going against the basic tenets of bohra faith. Its not some fabrication of Islam generated by STS as you people claim here

[Rashida saifuddin]

yes you are correct momeen should do this ONLY if the dai and his life is genuine and he is concern about the people who follow him.

Dai should live simple and should not engage in any political and land grabbing practices.
he should be more worried about the section of the society who are less privileged
he should invite people to dawat by love and not my compulsion or baraat system
he should not gather more and more money for his family
he should try and provide assistance to people without any condition
he should propagate Islam and Quran and not his own famiily ONLY

there should be complete transparency in dawat affairs just like how Imam Ali use to keep...

[SBM]

Being a bohra is not just wearing a topi or rida or eating dal chaval palidu.
(Before you are a Bohra, You are a Muslim)Its about mohabbat of dai
(before the mohabbat of Dai-if is the following Command of Allaha) and doing what he says.(and follow teaching of Prophet Mohammed SAW )
Its about going to ashara waaz,(It is about Praying Namaz 5 times a Day)
its about attending online majlis,(it is about reading Quran daily)
its about going to his hazrat for maghferat and barakat.(it is about asking Allaha for forgiveness and Maghferat)
Its about believing in Imam and in his absence accepting the fact that dai is sole benefactor of everything in dawat.(it is about knowing that Allaha is all and he does not need an intermediary for your Duas)
Its about having belief that whatever we earn is because of duas of duat and giving to dawat is going to uplift our status, if not here then in hereafter.(It is about knowing that your deeds will earn you the righteous and it is only ALLAHA who can forgive and reward you-not an Imam nor a Dai)
If you don't believe all this, which is mentioned in kitaabs by Syedna Qadi Noman, Syedna Idris Imaduddin and Syedi Sadiqali Saheb then you are going against the basic tenets of bohra faith. Its not some fabrication of Islam generated by STS as you people claim here (if you do not believe in the teaching of Quran and Sunnat of Prophet Mohammed, then you should not call yourself a Muslim)
[/quote]

[Sheikh_Sajjad_Husain]

are Rashida Saifuddin and yfm not Bohras? So they have every right to be engaged and concerned about it.

Being a bohra is not just wearing a topi or rida or eating dal chaval palidu.
Its about mohabbat of dai and doing what he says. Its about going to ashara waaz, its about attending online majlis, its about going to his hazrat for maghferat and barakat. Its about believing in Imam and in his absence accepting the fact that dai is sole benefactor of everything in dawat. Its about having belief that whatever we earn is because of duas of duat and giving to dawat is going to uplift our status, if not here then in hereafter.
If you don't believe all this, which is mentioned in kitaabs by Syedna Qadi Noman, Syedna Idris Imaduddin and Syedi Sadiqali Saheb then you are going against the basic tenets of bohra faith. Its not some fabrication of Islam generated by STS as you people claim here

Dear Qadir,

You are absolutely correct, your definition of Bohra is what every mukhlis Bohra believes... If only YN could read what you have written, he would have kissed your forehead... you are, after all, an excellent product of his policies.

You talk about all this in Kitabs of Syedna Qadi Nauman(RA) Syedna Idris Imaduddin(RA), can you please quote these kitaabs for everyone's benefit to justify your version of what it means to be a Dawoodi Bohra?

[SBM]

can you please quote these kitaabs for everyone's benefit to justify your version of what it means to be a Dawoodi Bohra?

Hopefully he does not come up with excuse of TAAWIL and SABAQ and RAZA

[Qadir]

Yes you are right I don't have raza for quoting the kitabs. Btw its your responsibility to get ilm not mine to give.
But i won't leave you hanging here without any evidence. I mentioned Syedi Sadiqali Saheb because he was in khidmat of duat before Syedna Abdulqadir Najmuddin who you alledge was not rightful dai. But the "SYN policies" have existed before Syedna Abdulqadir Najmuddin.

In the picture I'm attaching you can clearly see Syedi Sadiqali saheb considered Dai to be in same rutba as Imam.

I would love to provide more evidence if you want. Just let me know the specific topic because I am at a liberty to share what ilm is public on Youtube.

[Qadir]

Being a bohra is not just wearing a topi or rida or eating dal chaval palidu.
(Before you are a Bohra, You are a Muslim)Its about mohabbat of dai
(before the mohabbat of Dai-if is the following Command of Allaha) and doing what he says.(and follow teaching of Prophet Mohammed SAW )
Its about going to ashara waaz,(It is about Praying Namaz 5 times a Day)
its about attending online majlis,(it is about reading Quran daily)
its about going to his hazrat for maghferat and barakat.(it is about asking Allaha for forgiveness and Maghferat)
Its about believing in Imam and in his absence accepting the fact that dai is sole benefactor of everything in dawat.(it is about knowing that Allaha is all and he does not need an intermediary for your Duas)
Its about having belief that whatever we earn is because of duas of duat and giving to dawat is going to uplift our status, if not here then in hereafter.(It is about knowing that your deeds will earn you the righteous and it is only ALLAHA who can forgive and reward you-not an Imam nor a Dai)
If you don't believe all this, which is mentioned in kitaabs by Syedna Qadi Noman, Syedna Idris Imaduddin and Syedi Sadiqali Saheb then you are going against the basic tenets of bohra faith. Its not some fabrication of Islam generated by STS as you people claim here (if you do not believe in the teaching of Quran and Sunnat of Prophet Mohammed, then you should not call yourself a Muslim)

[/quote]

Everything that you mentioned in bold makes you enter the fold of Islam as all Sunnis and Wahabbis are but on some of your points even other Shias will tell you are wrong.

[Sheikh_Sajjad_Husain]

Yes you are right I don't have raza for quoting the kitabs. Btw its your responsibility to get ilm not mine to give.
But i won't leave you hanging here without any evidence. I mentioned Syedi Sadiqali Saheb because he was in khidmat of duat before Syedna Abdulqadir Najmuddin who you alledge was not rightful dai. But the "SYN policies" have existed before Syedna Abdulqadir Najmuddin.

In the picture I'm attaching you can clearly see Syedi Sadiqali saheb considered Dai to be in same rutba as Imam.

I would love to provide more evidence if you want. Just let me know the specific topic because I am at a liberty to share what ilm is public on Youtube.

Dear Qadir,

Thanks for quoting Sheikh Sadiq Ali Saheb, can you please quote the same from the books of Syedna Qadi Nauman (RA) and Syedna Idris Imaduddin(RA)

Also, do you have raza to engage in verbal Jihad with so called mukhalifeens on this website, last I checked even this was not allowed without raza.

and please do not remind us of our responsibilities, we are only questioning your claims.

[Rashida saifuddin]

yes you are correct momeen should do this ONLY if the dai and his life is genuine and he is concern about the people who follow him.

Dai should live simple and should not engage in any political and land grabbing practices.
he should be more worried about the section of the society who are less privileged
he should invite people to dawat by love and not my compulsion or baraat system
he should not gather more and more money for his family
he should try and provide assistance to people without any condition
he should propagate Islam and Quran and not his own famiily ONLY

there should be complete transparency in dawat affairs just like how Imam Ali use to keep...

[SBM]

Everything that you mentioned in bold makes you enter the fold of Islam as all Sunnis and Wahabbis are but on some of your points even other Shias will tell you are wrong.

So praying 5 times a day, reading Quran daily, asking Allaha for forgiveness makes a SUNNI then I suppose I am a true Muslim and you- my friend anything but MUSLIM
And just remember when Imam Hussain, before his Shahdaat, he was in Sajda praying to Allaha and not an Imam or a DAI---according to your definition, it makes him Sunni/.Wahabi

[Rashida saifuddin]

Qadir seems to be mentally unstable from his posts, he needs medical assistance or may be he just kothari goon trying to defend wrong doing of kothar for his salary. in both case my sympathy with him.

[Qadir]

Qadir seems to be mentally unstable from his posts, he needs medical assistance or may be he just kothari goon trying to defend wrong doing of kothar for his salary. in both case my sympathy with him.

So anyone who does not conform to your beliefs and faith is mentally unstable? Isn't that similar to what you claim kothar does?
I do however would like to point to the fact that i provided evidence against the claim that current bohra beliefs are a brainchild of SYN by quoting Syedi Sadiqali saheb. No one acknowledged it except Sajjad Husain.

[Qadir]

Everything that you mentioned in bold makes you enter the fold of Islam as all Sunnis and Wahabbis are but on some of your points even other Shias will tell you are wrong.

So praying 5 times a day, reading Quran daily, asking Allaha for forgiveness makes a SUNNI then I suppose I am a true Muslim and you- my friend anything but MUSLIM
And just remember when Imam Hussain, before his Shahdaat, he was in Sajda praying to Allaha and not an Imam or a DAI---according to your definition, it makes him Sunni/.Wahabi

I guess you misunderstood me. What i was trying to say is that all Muslims including Sunnis and Wahabis pray 5 time namaz, do rozas, do dua to Allah.
However even mainstream Shia believe in taking wasilas of panjetan and aimmat before doing dua to Allah Taala.
So what i wanted to say is that bohras do believe basic islamic practices which Rasulallah has said to do but also follow certain teachings of Ameerul Mumineen and Imams which Sunnis and Wahabis reject. If you reject those teachings then you're more in line with Sunni theology than that of Dawoodi Bohras

[Qadir]

I don't really like to do this but I just found out that even Sunnis believe in using an intermediary between yourself and Allah, an idea you rejected in your post.

The Hadith is as follows: {{Quote|source=|A blind man came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: "I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so pray to Allah for me". The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: "Go perform ablution (Wudu), perform two Rak’at Salat and then say: "O Allah! I ask you and turn to you through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I seek your intercession with my lord for the return of my eyesight, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah! Grant him intercession for me". The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) then said: "and if there is some other need, do the same"|Recorded by Ibn Majah: 1385, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Tabarani and others, with a sound chain of narrators.[11]

You can clearly see that that the person seeking Allah's tawfeeq is asking Rasulallah to intercede.

I also found an ayat which tells muslims to take wasila of Rasulallah:

If, when they had wronged themselves, they had come to you, and asked forgiveness from God, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found God Relenting, Merciful.

— Al-Qur'an, Surah an-Nisa, 4:64

[bohra_manus]

Qadir seems to be mentally unstable from his posts, he needs medical assistance or may be he just kothari goon trying to defend wrong doing of kothar for his salary. in both case my sympathy with him.

So anyone who does not conform to your beliefs and faith is mentally unstable? Isn't that similar to what you claim kothar does?
I do however would like to point to the fact that i provided evidence against the claim that current bohra beliefs are a brainchild of SYN by quoting Syedi Sadiqali saheb. No one acknowledged it except Sajjad Husain.

Br Qadir,
Although I no longer prescribe to the current Dais, I must applaud you for the restraint and politeness with which you respond to critisim.
Really an admirable quality.
Kudos to you.
Salaams.

[allbird]

I don't really like to do this but I just found out that even Sunnis believe in using an intermediary between yourself and Allah, an idea you rejected in your post.

The Hadith is as follows: {{Quote|source=|A blind man came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: "I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so pray to Allah for me". The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: "Go perform ablution (Wudu), perform two Rak’at Salat and then say: "O Allah! I ask you and turn to you through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I seek your intercession with my lord for the return of my eyesight, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah! Grant him intercession for me". The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) then said: "and if thi ere is some other need, do the same"|Recorded by Ibn Majah: 1385, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Tabarani and others, with a sound chain of narrators.[11]

You can clearly see that that the person seeking Allah's tawfeeq is asking Rasulallah to intercede.

I also found an ayat which tells muslims to take wasila of Rasulallah:

If, when they had wronged themselves, they had come to you, and asked forgiveness from God, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found God Relenting, Merciful.

— Al-Qur'an, Surah an-Nisa, 4:64

Sorry to barge in.... just clarifying the above hadith, so in analogy Rasullah (SAW) is dead now almost 1400 years ago and this hadith was applicable then not applicable anymore in today's time. In today's time if i need Rehmat of Allaha i need to go to hazaraat of SMS kiss his feet, give him hefty envelop and do Arz for whatever healing, financial gains, profit in business, wish for child, marriage or dispute and that's how it works.

In short SMS is Rasullah of today's time .....please answer YES or NO.

Thats makes Bohras the most purest filtered out true muslims

[SBM]

I don't really like to do this but I just found out that even Sunnis believe in using an intermediary between yourself and Allah, an idea you rejected in your post.

The Hadith is as follows: {{Quote|source=|A blind man came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: "I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so pray to Allah for me". The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: "Go perform ablution (Wudu), perform two Rak’at Salat and then say: "O Allah! I ask you and turn to you through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I seek your intercession with my lord for the return of my eyesight, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah! Grant him intercession for me". The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) then said: "and if there is some other need, do the same"|Recorded by Ibn Majah: 1385, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Tabarani and others, with a sound chain of narrators.[11]

You can clearly see that that the person seeking Allah's tawfeeq is asking Rasulallah to intercede.

I also found an ayat which tells muslims to take wasila of Rasulallah:

If, when they had wronged themselves, they had come to you, and asked forgiveness from God, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found God Relenting, Merciful.

— Al-Qur'an, Surah an-Nisa, 4:64

Please do read the Hadith properly, Prophet asked them to ask ALLAHA directly.not Prophet. We all do Salaawat on Prophet all the time, that does not mean we are asking Prophet's intervention

[Qadir]

I don't really like to do this but I just found out that even Sunnis believe in using an intermediary between yourself and Allah, an idea you rejected in your post.

The Hadith is as follows: {{Quote|source=|A blind man came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: "I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so pray to Allah for me". The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: "Go perform ablution (Wudu), perform two Rak’at Salat and then say: "O Allah! I ask you and turn to you through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I seek your intercession with my lord for the return of my eyesight, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah! Grant him intercession for me". The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) then said: "and if there is some other need, do the same"|Recorded by Ibn Majah: 1385, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Tabarani and others, with a sound chain of narrators.[11]

You can clearly see that that the person seeking Allah's tawfeeq is asking Rasulallah to intercede.

I also found an ayat which tells muslims to take wasila of Rasulallah:

If, when they had wronged themselves, they had come to you, and asked forgiveness from God, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found God Relenting, Merciful.

— Al-Qur'an, Surah an-Nisa, 4:64

Please do read the Hadith properly, Prophet asked them to ask ALLAHA directly.not Prophet. We all do Salaawat on Prophet all the time, that does not mean we are asking Prophet's intervention

We pray salawat (which includes "Aale Mohammed" which means Imam) before and after any dua we do because we as bohras believe that if Allah accepts one dua he also accepts other done alongside that dua. And Allah always accepts salawat so any dua done before or after salawat must be heard too.

Also I would like to direct you to this sentence which might help you understand why I posted the hadith
"O Muhammad! I seek your intercession with my lord for the return of my eyesight, that it may be fulfilled."
See clearly Rasulallah is telling the person to ask Rasulallah (by name) to intercede before he asks for eyesight from Allah Taala.

And someone said its wrong to go to Dai for maghferat and not Allah Taala directly. The Quran ayat is to counteract that idea.

Now coming to the question that is SMS, Rasulallah of today's time. NO
Its Imam uz Zaman and since he is in purdah we go to dai to reach to him and in turn to Allah.

[Rashida saifuddin]

piece of history, when I see people like Qadir who support all wrong doing of kothar and their senile plans to capture every thing financially it reminds the era of Muawiya where his followers like Qadir use to call him amir ul momeenin (astagferulllah) and use to abuse Imam Ali from mimbar and for them all deeds from muawiyah were inline with Sunnah and Quran.

Life of Imam Ali is still alive and very much valid because there are still muawiyah and there followers like Qadir very much alive and kicking.

[Qadir]

piece of history, when I see people like Qadir who support all wrong doing of kothar and their senile plans to capture every thing financially it reminds the era of Muawiya where his followers like Qadir use to call him amir ul momeenin (astagferulllah) and use to abuse Imam Ali from mimbar and for them all deeds from muawiyah were inline with Sunnah and Quran.

Life of Imam Ali is still alive and very much valid because there are still muawiyah and there followers like Qadir very much alive and kicking.

A lot of things wrong with your analogy.
Firstly Muawiya was not appointed through nass rather he proclaimed himself as Ameerul Mumineen.
Second time and time again it has been proven that STS, SMB or SMS have not produced fabrications of dawat but just simply followed teachings of imams and past duat and tried to find solutions to modern problems based on those teachings. Muawiya however rejected Ameerul Mumineen as 4th Caliph and became a munafiq.

First day in Daimul Islam sabaq you're told that everytime there has been a problem, duat have turned to Daimul islam to find solutions. It the basis of jurisprudence in dawat second in darajah to Quran Majeed which is the basis of faith.

[Rashida saifuddin]

Neither Mufaddal or his forefather have any nass from Imam they are baniyas self appointed thugs just like muawiya and idiots like you believe them as their leaders.

secondly Muawiya also use to talk about Quran and infact he use to present Quran as a reference to prove that imam Ali is on batil Astagferullah

Qadir you are a delusion idiot but you are so stupid you are yet to know it.

[Sheikh_Sajjad_Husain]

piece of history, when I see people like Qadir who support all wrong doing of kothar and their senile plans to capture every thing financially it reminds the era of Muawiya where his followers like Qadir use to call him amir ul momeenin (astagferulllah) and use to abuse Imam Ali from mimbar and for them all deeds from muawiyah were inline with Sunnah and Quran.

Life of Imam Ali is still alive and very much valid because there are still muawiyah and there followers like Qadir very much alive and kicking.

A lot of things wrong with your analogy.
Firstly Muawiya was not appointed through nass rather he proclaimed himself as Ameerul Mumineen.
Second time and time again it has been proven that STS, SMB or SMS have not produced fabrications of dawat but just simply followed teachings of imams and past duat and tried to find solutions to modern problems based on those teachings. Muawiya however rejected Ameerul Mumineen as 4th Caliph and became a munafiq.

First day in Daimul Islam sabaq you're told that everytime there has been a problem, duat have turned to Daimul islam to find solutions. It the basis of jurisprudence in dawat second in darajah to Quran Majeed which is the basis of faith.

Dear Qadir,

If you can manage, please get your hands on Transcript of Burhanpur Dargah Case & Chandabhai Gulla case, and just go through it... I assure you, you will be shocked beyond your wildest imagination.

[SBM]

O Muhammad! I seek your intercession with my lord for the return of my eyesight, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah! Grant him intercession for me".

Br Qadir
The man asked Prophet Mohammed to intercede on his behalf and what did Prophet replied
while you are asking Abdes/Amtes to go to Dai and unless you have a big envelope, Dai does not give a HOOT about you, And again if Dai is that powerful why does NOT he ask Imam for his NAJWA and WAJEBAT instead of asking poor and gullible Abdes/Amtes.
It is also funny that you refer to some of the Hadiths for your own convenience. Do Bohras or specially your hidden Sabaq givers believe in this Hadith

[Qadir]

O Muhammad! I seek your intercession with my lord for the return of my eyesight, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah! Grant him intercession for me".

Br Qadir
The man asked Prophet Mohammed to intercede on his behalf and what did Prophet replied
while you are asking Abdes/Amtes to go to Dai and unless you have a big envelope, Dai does not give a HOOT about you, And again if Dai is that powerful why does NOT he ask Imam for his NAJWA and WAJEBAT instead of asking poor and gullible Abdes/Amtes.
It is also funny that you refer to some of the Hadiths for your own convenience. Do Bohras or specially your hidden Sabaq givers believe in this Hadith

There's a lot of riwayats from Rasulallah and Moulana Ali that are mentioned in waaz but if I tell them here they will be labelled as fabricated so I try to provide evidence which you would accept. Eg Rasulallah takes wasila of Moulana Ali, Moulana Ali's hidayat to Imam Hassan about dua etc.

You are correct that I don't consider the hadith to be accurate as long as any dawat text doesn't cite it.

Giving wajebat is farz on even the most poor and gullible. You can literally ask any Muslim.
Also SMB used to say and SMS says that if you sit facing qibla and remember them then they'll listen to you and come to your help quickly and if they don't then they must not be considered Imam's dai.

[Mkenya]

Qadir, you say: "Also SMB used to say and SMS says that if you sit facing qibla and remember them then they'll listen to you and come to your help quickly".

THAT IS SHIRK.

I suggest you read Surah 'Ikhlaas'!

[Qadir]

Qadir, you say: "Also SMB used to say and SMS says that if you sit facing qibla and remember them then they'll listen to you and come to your help quickly".

THAT IS SHIRK.

I suggest you read Surah 'Ikhlaas'!

Do you consider going for ziyarat of Panjetan, Aimmat, Duat and Hudood Shirk as well?

[Rashida saifuddin]

comparing intercede of Muhammed saw with Mufaddal is the biggest sign that Qadir is a stupid man.

go and read the life of Muhammed saw and know what kind of life he lived and then compare to the life of Mufaddal and ask your self if it is right to compare Mufaddal with Muhammed.

intercede is clearly mention in Quran but for intercede see what you are making the wasila and who is living life according to Quran to become intercede before Allah.

read life of Qutbuddin shaheed and fakhruddin shaheed, see their akhlaaq and then compare it with the love of money of Mufaddal saifuddin.

Qadir get well soon