byculla wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 7:43 am
@James - responding to some of your points.
I have it in my notes of 2003 Mumbai ashara. Its a well known zikr even outside of SMB RA bayan. Chief of Nizari sect gave misak to Syedna Dawood bin Ajab RA. While arguing with the Chief, Syedna's central argument was 'who is closest to shariat Mohammediah ?' since Nizaris had abandoned fasting and namaz. Adherence to Shariat is important. When you say MS can't be dai since he did Shirk in doing sajda to TV or when he did adawat of Syedna Burhanuddin TUS's 2nd highest maratib its evident MS went against well established dawat ground rules. Its not Qiyaas as you retort.
. Yes you can argue that doing sajda to TV is not shirk and your personal belief (and thats your choice) but you can't argue that if you do genuinely believe that its shirk (as Mukasir Shz Husain bs has already said) then concluding based on that belief is Qiyaas. Its following the central principle Syedna Dawood RA outlined as per SMB RA bayan in my notes.
Again not interested in your personal notes especially when you claim that followers have the intellect to decide who the Mansoos should be. Your notes are on par with events of Saqeefah when they decided to nominate you know who.
You keep harping on about the sajda to TV. Let's address this bullshit straight on just this one time. What was playing on the tv at that time?
As for your second point of adawat. Stop twisting words.I do not have the bayan with me,but I reckon it was along the lines of Khuzaima doing adawat of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA during his lifetime. Hardly surprising seeing Khuzaima's antics after the death of the 52nd Dai RA. Ran away from janaza mubarakah,prevented Syedna RA's grandchildren from attending janazah mubarakah,orchestrated Saqeefah 2.0 whilst the 52nd Dai RA was yet to be buried,did Inqaar of Nass of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA after accepting it for three years.ordered people close to him to come to Thane instead of telling them to attend Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA's janazah mubarakah,the list goes on. The organizers of Saqeefah 1.0 did adawat even during Prophet Mohammed SAW's lifetime but he did Sabr so it hardly surprising that Khuzaima did adawat slyly during his lifetime. I used the word sly because his fitnat was only limited to corrupting his children and some close to him. On the whole,he couldn't do anything due to Shaan of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA just like how the 4 manahis of Jamea couldn't corrupt Jamea which is the zaat mubarak of Dai Mutlaq.
In fact,read on what Syedi Husain bs Husamuddin (Mukasir of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA) conveyed during Sadaqallah Majlis.
Syedi Husain bs Husamuddin said that the impostors that do inkaar (reject) of the True Nass in reality have done inkaar (rejected) of ALL the previous Nass, and are mustahiq (worthy) of la’nat.
Some pretty twisted before/after logic (its not the first time you resorted to this). In any case if you truly believe that HAQ comes before BAATIL - consider this Syedna Burhanuddin RA conferred nass on SKQ RA the day he appointed him as mazoon. SMB RA himself said in the bayan mubarak on 17th Shaban 1385H that the name "Khuzaima" was most beloved to Syedna Taher Saifuddin while appointing him as mazoon publicly. Your master MS did Sajda to SKQ RA for several years. He wrote him a letter calling him "Maula" and even referred to SMB RA and SKQ together as "Bewe Maula" (Ref FD website). Sajda is given only to Dai or his mansoos (Your fried Saif53 has also accepted.). So MS after accepting SKQ as mansoos stopped believing. Doesn't Haq come before Baatil here ? Events of 17th Shaban 1385 even predate the fake 1388 nass letter your produced. What comes before/after now ?
Just because you keep adding the word fake doesn't make it so. All actions of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA have been on HAQ till his last breath. "Mufaddal bhai ne nass nu taj" is as clear the Sun in the sky in the video that was posted by the dawedaar youtube team.
Are we doing the "most beloved" dance again?
https://believesyednaqutbuddin.files.wo ... -walad.jpg
There was no sajda given to Khuzaima.In fact, in court he has admitted that he doesn't remember his brothers ever giving a sajda to him. (I can flush out the news articles if you want me to.Unlike you,I can back up everything I say)
The quicksand and the predicament you guys are under is astonishing. On one hand,only Khuzaima was told of the Nass because talvaro chali jaate and on the other hand,all and sundry were giving him sajda in open,etc So where was this threat? Are you even contemplating on what you are saying? Not only Khuzaima and his ilk,but on this very forum you have admitted on things having settled after the Hospital events were shown to mumineen. Inkaar after Iqraar,Baatil after Haq.
I don't know the exact individual who registered the domain. Neither do you (else you would have mentioned). Its my guess that it might be STF tus. He knew MS couldn't be mansoos by his actions. Further as he has said in numerous bayans (ref many of his waaz publicly available on youtube), he has himself seen several Hudoods in time of Syedna Burhanuddin RA publicly do Sajda to SKQ RA including Miyasaheb Ibrahim Yamani. Since sajda during hayati of a hudood is offered only to a Dai or his mansoos, and further that Nass cannot change after conferment. He knew SKQ was mansoos and it does NOT and should NOT mean that SKQ disclosed the events of his own nass on 17th Shaban 1385 . Knowing the ruse going in dawat he may have registered this as his khidmat as he knew at some point SKQ would need to come out and internet is the fastest way for information to reach all mumineen. Supporting Syedna Burhanuddin RA's true mansoos is not FITNAT. Its khidmat. Further its additional proof that MS fake nass was not accepted by children of SKQ RA.
You suggesting Taher registered the domain shows how they were waiting for Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA to close his eyes so that they can start their propaganda.And to suggest that Taher took this step without Khuzaima's approval is lunacy.The propaganda walls of text were ready from before and like I said before,a disgruntled half brother and his children started this nonsense in private and were waiting and I daresay hoping on how early Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA leaves this mortal world. But Allah SWT is the best of planners and not munafiqeen.The janazah mubarakah of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA became the biggest daleel in that critical time on what is Haq and what is Baatil.During the time of mourning,the children were used as pawns in this fitnat but since then,the kidnapped children have also returned to the fold and the icing on the cake was the US court's observation on the character of daughters of Khuzaima. The barking by Husain on "behurmati of 52nd Dai RA's janazah mubarakah" (Nauzobillah) was given a fitting reply by the Allah SWT The best of planners when Khuzaima's body went without dafan and kafan for what,10-11 days? Transported from USA to India for Taher's greed instead of burying him there in the USA as per Shariat Mohammediyah.
DISTORTION of truth. The adults who attended events during the night after SMB RA wafaat were neither forced or handcuffed. They were free to attend Janaza of Syedna Burhanuddin if they wished. The time when SKQ RA gave his bayan in which he disclosed Nass on him DID NOT coincide with the time of Janaza of Syedna Burhanuddin. It was several hours before that. The only time in which it may have coincided was the tragic stampede of 18 mumineen which we all are aware of.
Look at the language you are using. "They were free to attend IF THEY WISHED". Khuzaima should have ordered them to attend the janazah mubarakah if he wasn't going to attend. Maybe he was afraid that if they go,they will never come back.
At the coinciding time,the people shouldn't have been called to Thane but should have been told to do one last deedar of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA but nopes,they were pulled away from Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. It resonates with testimonies which said how he prevented people from enrolling in Jamea and attending Hazrat Aaliyah of 52nd Dai RA.
I already responded to this. See my post on different thread. After passing away of Syedna Burhanuddin RA, it was his (SKQ's) solemn duty to disclose SMB RA's nass on him without any further delay. Yes he did ziyarat from far as were the halaat on that day and time.
I am not sure you understand the meaning of the word delay and this is not a taunt.Ask yourself how many hours had passed by when he made the claim.Then again,Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA also banished him from his zyarat and zero taufeeq to even do his zyarat.
Again your attempt to fabricate (as if Mukasir and Mazoon are equivalent just because both are mentioned in misak).
Mukasir is an important maratib mentioned in misak, but this rutba is lower than mazoon. Yes we believe in Dai, Mazoon and Mukasir in that order. Dai and mazoon in particular are mentioned as Hudood Muzdaweja (wedded to each other). Belief in Dai and Mazoon is part of belief of Kalematush Shahadat. Rutba of Mukasir is not mentioned in the same manner.
All SKQ followers believed and respected (ex) Mukasir saheb - Shz Husain Husamuddin during entire SMB RA daur. In our qusoor we believed in Dai and his maratib (mazoon and mukasir in that order) - unlike the Mufaddalies who did not believe in SMB RA mazoon during SMB RA daur itself, while under SMB RA misak . That is the difference.
After the death of SMB RA, the authority of mazoon is over mukasir (and in that order).
Now coming to the most important part.Like I previously said,just the mention of one personality shatters every fitnat coming from Khuzaima and his ilk.
Lower higher is what you are reduced to. The crux of the matter is,
Mazoon name taken in misaq so he cannot go astray.
Then again you guys conveniently miss out on talking about another name taken in the misaq.By same logic,
Mukasir name taken in misaq so he cannot go astray.
But here we have a Mukasir saying
that the impostors that do inkaar (reject) of the True Nass in reality have done inkaar (rejected) of ALL the previous Nass, and are mustahiq (worthy) of la’nat.
So it's obvious either Mukasir or the Mazoon has gone astray. So this bullshit of name taken in misaq can never go astray is destroyed in milliseconds.
And I am sure you will back up your bullshit with Dawat texts where it says on the difference of identifying Mansoos of preceding Dai,Mazoon's word is to be taken over the word of Mukasir.I challenge you to bring me just one text saying this.
You don't use intellect where it is to be used.You are blind to understand a simple reality that Mazoon and Mukasir are fallible positions and any claims without Proof is not acceptable in religion or worldly affairs.
Nass without Tawfeeq are claims of a dawedaar.And even if you keep religion aside for a minute,replay the events happening after the wafaat of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA.
Leaving the janazah mubarak of 52nd Dai RA.
Organizing Saqeefah 2.0.
Preventing attendance of grandchildren of 52nd Dai RA's janazah.
Making a video oppressing the children during the time of mourning.
Filing a court case in USA and getting hammered and losing custody of the children.
I daresay,99% have rejected his wild fanciful claims including the Mukasir of 52nd Dai RA.
The Mumbai court case is just for usurping Dawat properties. Even if one sees from a judicial point of view,tell me how is it Adl that a schism of 500-600 people want to control Dawat properties which cater to Lacs and Lacs of mumineen?
I mean,say you constructed a Masjid and you gave it away for Waqf under the trustee of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS and you are his follower. How is it Adl that Taher and his ilk try to wrest that away? Is there no end to Taher's selfishness and greed?