Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2911

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:26 am

Rashida saifuddin wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:15 am Qadir seems to be mentally unstable from his posts, he needs medical assistance or may be he just kothari goon trying to defend wrong doing of kothar for his salary. in both case my sympathy with him.
This is NOT right, and other people should also call out this post. I disagree with brother Qadir, but this is no way to talk about him.

He is just stating the bohra beliefs as they are stated now. I don't agree, fine; but abusing him is just plain wrong.

Just as he is wrong in saying that anybody who questions anything related to the Kothar actions is not a bohra. My understanding is that that is what the kothar kept telling/hinting to the reformists - why don't you just leave and don't call yourself Dawoodi Bohras since you are questioning things.

Why should they? They are as much Bohras.

Just like many RSS-BJP bhakts currently refer to any Hindu who disagrees with Modi-BJP as anti-Hindu/anti-Indian. In this case the bhakts are wrong.

It is an old trick, has been conveniently used by many before; will for sure be used in the future too.

SBM
Posts: 6418
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2912

Unread post by SBM » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:45 am

This is NOT right, and other people should also call out this post. I disagree with brother Qadir, but this is no way to talk about him.
Agree-
Admin:
This is great discussion but has totally different subject, can you be kind enough to separate the thread and move all the posts in that thread

SBM
Posts: 6418
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2913

Unread post by SBM » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:53 am

DCP
As a Muslim-you can NOT be a silent spectator if some one misrepresents the teaching of Islam and saying of the Prophet Mohammad SAW.
If you do that then you are as guilty as the person who is spreading the wrong information.
Br Qadir is sharing the mis information he is learning in those VERY SECRETIVE SABAQS. While he feels comfortable to refer HADITHS which he himself does NOT believe while hiding his VERY SECRETIVE SABAQS which he considers AUTHENTIC.
There are many ABDES/AMTES) as well as many Non Bohra Muslims and Non Muslim do visit this chatgroup, it is our responsibility to correct those FAKE teachings.
If a DAI sits is Qubba and ask Imam instead of ALLAHA (his words) then I wonder when he is leading the Namaz, is that Dai is parrying to Allaha or the Imam ( a human being) and does all the Namazi who are following his Imamat have done the Salah for Allaha.
How much we miss Brother, Porus, Anajmi, Al Zulfikar and others to chime on this topic
Last edited by SBM on Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

SBM
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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2914

Unread post by SBM » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:58 am

Do you consider going for ziyarat of Panjetan, Aimmat, Duat and Hudood Shirk as well?
Br Qadir
One can go to Ziyaarat of anyone out of respect as long as they do not ask those dead bodies for Maghferat and acceptance of their Duas, then it is NOT Shirk. Many of our Nabi, Panjetan and Duat were murdered and if they were Ghayab na Jankar, they would have known in advance of the plot of their murder and avoided it BUT ALLAHA knew better ( NOW I WILL BE LABELED AS WAHABI OR WHATEVER :) )

Sheikh_Sajjad_Husain
Posts: 36
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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2915

Unread post by Sheikh_Sajjad_Husain » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:08 am

SBM wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:58 am
Do you consider going for ziyarat of Panjetan, Aimmat, Duat and Hudood Shirk as well?
Br Qadir
One can go to Ziyaarat of anyone out of respect as long as they do not ask those dead bodies for Maghferat and acceptance of their Duas, then it is NOT Shirk. Many of our Nabi, Panjetan and Duat were murdered and if they were Ghayab na Jankar, they would have known in advance of the plot of their murder and avoided it BUT ALLAHA knew better ( NOW I WILL BE LABELED AS WAHABI OR WHATEVER :) )
Knowing very well the will of Allah, and accepting it and not running away from it, is the definition of believing in the unseen, believing Awliyaullah to be dead in qabr is unfortunately aqida of Wahabis.. So don't complain of being called one...

Sheikh_Sajjad_Husain
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2916

Unread post by Sheikh_Sajjad_Husain » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:08 am

SBM wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:58 am
Do you consider going for ziyarat of Panjetan, Aimmat, Duat and Hudood Shirk as well?
Br Qadir
One can go to Ziyaarat of anyone out of respect as long as they do not ask those dead bodies for Maghferat and acceptance of their Duas, then it is NOT Shirk. Many of our Nabi, Panjetan and Duat were murdered and if they were Ghayab na Jankar, they would have known in advance of the plot of their murder and avoided it BUT ALLAHA knew better ( NOW I WILL BE LABELED AS WAHABI OR WHATEVER :) )
Knowing very well the will of Allah, and accepting it and not running away from it, is the definition of believing in the unseen, believing Awliyaullah to be dead in qabr is unfortunately aqida of Wahabis(Najdi's to be more appropriate).. So don't complain of being called one...

yfm
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2917

Unread post by yfm » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:43 pm

I heard the , bayan of Seyedna Taher Fakruddin about Death and I must say that all these bayans are from the Koran, Allah himself.

Nothing so prophetic about the bayan except it is a reminder and for that I am thankful.

However, when I remember Shabbir Bhaisaheb, the son of Quarshi bhaisaheb, the grand son of Seyedna Taher Saifuddin, of New Jersey, USA, going over to his house next to the masjid to pray. This house which was built by the mumineen whom Shabbir bhAI SAHEB considereded beneath him, to pray in the month of Ramadan because he could not pray behind an ordinary man from Jamea. This man, even though this man was sent to New Jersey by the dai himself, I say to my self that death should remind these dai family. That when we were kicked out of heaven it was because of pride. Let them know that Allah will judge them and hopefully throw them back to earth so that they learn that pride is what fell Saitan and hopefully these bhaisahebs will learn what the end game of pride is. It is surely not Islam.

Let these dai's go to hell one more time and let Allah keep them there for eternity so we bohras can have peace and prosperity here on earth before death takes us back to Allah. And death takes us back to Allah without these Dais.

yfm
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2918

Unread post by yfm » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:30 pm

Being a bohra is not just wearing a topi or rida or eating dal chaval palidu.
(Before you are a Bohra, You are a Muslim)Its about mohabbat of dai
(before the mohabbat of Dai-if is the following Command of Allaha) and doing what he says.(and follow teaching of Prophet Mohammed SAW )
Its about going to ashara waaz,(It is about Praying Namaz 5 times a Day)
its about attending online majlis,(it is about reading Quran daily)
its about going to his hazrat for maghferat and barakat.(it is about asking Allaha for forgiveness and Maghferat)
Its about believing in Imam and in his absence accepting the fact that dai is sole benefactor of everything in dawat.(it is about knowing that Allaha is all and he does not need an intermediary for your Duas)
Its about having belief that whatever we earn is because of duas of duat and giving to dawat is going to uplift our status, if not here then in hereafter.(It is about knowing that your deeds will earn you the righteous and it is only ALLAHA who can forgive and reward you-not an Imam nor a Dai)
If you don't believe all this, which is mentioned in kitaabs by Syedna Qadi Noman, Syedna Idris Imaduddin and Syedi Sadiqali Saheb then you are going against the basic tenets of bohra faith. Its not some fabrication of Islam generated by STS as you people claim here (if you do not believe in the teaching of Quran and Sunnat of Prophet Mohammed, then you should not call yourself a Muslim).

How many of us pray five times a day?
How many of us feel the pangs of hunger and humiliation because we are poor only because all the rich bohras want to go to heaven by giving their money to the Dai's so they have the status provided by the dai's. And not because of the credits of good deeds written by the angels of Allah for the good deeds that the left hand does not see what the right does and this is what will give them status in the hereafter.
How many of us are grateful to Allah for the blessings for which they havn belief in the bribery that they gave the Dai and hope that the dai will be there as the intercession when the Dai himself is mortal?
How many more examples do I have to cite that the dai's have brainwashed us into oblivion?
Yet these dais will not give back to me and my fellow mumineens, all the property me and my ancestors gave them in trust.
We are suckers and will always be suckers when we have men like Quadir around us, fox in lambs clothes.

Qadir
Posts: 251
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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2919

Unread post by Qadir » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:55 pm

So yfm I want to ask a very simple question, where do you draw the line when it all went downhill?
Moulana Ali?
Imam Hussain?
Imam Ismail?
Imam Moiz?
Imam Tayyeb?
Syedna Hatim?
Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed?
Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin?
Syedna Abdulqadir Najmuddin?
Syedna Taher Saifuddin?
Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin?
Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin?

Also if you believe in even one of these, I assume you acknowledge nass, can you provide an alternative line of haq na dai or Imam.

Qadir
Posts: 251
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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2920

Unread post by Qadir » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:01 am

Now let me ask you these questions too
(YOU DON'T NEED TO ANSWER THEM HERE)

How do you know what's the niyat behind bohras giving money to the dai? Are you ghayb na jaankar?
How do you know that it was your ancestors who gave a specific property to dawat?
Let's assume you do get one back, will you allow mumineen to use it? Will you pay maintenance for it from your pocket? If not will you ask worshippers to pay the sabil? What if they don't agree with your views? Will you excommunicate them?

SBM
Posts: 6418
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2921

Unread post by SBM » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:46 am

Br Qadir
Do you consider DAI as Ghayab Naa Jankar???

allbird
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2922

Unread post by allbird » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:33 am

Br Qadir,

Thanks for your direct polite replies. And accept my apologies on behalf of some forum members using offensive language. Please let them use those terms as they wish, You have my respects.

Stay PUT on your beliefs and keep debating all this discussion is to enhance each other knowledge and nothing else. No one is a winner nor loser. We all pray Salah and keep reciting Quran with pure hearts. In these time of Pandemic lets us pray with wasila of Rasullah SAW and Panjtan park for betterment of our society and other fellow humans no matter what their beliefs are . We should repent and ask for forgiveness not only of our sins but for those who unknowingly are committing it. May Allah Subahanawo protect us and mumineen around the world. Ameen.

Qadir
Posts: 251
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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2923

Unread post by Qadir » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:29 am

SBM wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:46 am Br Qadir
Do you consider DAI as Ghayab Naa Jankar???
Yes.

SBM
Posts: 6418
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2924

Unread post by SBM » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:51 am

So Br Qadir
Kindly educate me with the following incidents
Ghayab Na Jankar should have known disputes will arise for succession
Ghayab Na Jankar should have known that BJP govt will loose in Maharashtra before given community's hard earned money to Modi
Ghayab Na Jankar should have known that Covid-19 will affect Saifee Mahal and it will be sealed
Ghayab Na Jankar should have known that people in Sri Lanka will NOT welcome his entourage before he made annoucement
Well let me just stope here to get some answers before I have another list

Qadir
Posts: 251
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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2925

Unread post by Qadir » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:17 pm

SBM wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:51 am So Br Qadir
Kindly educate me with the following incidents
Ghayab Na Jankar should have known disputes will arise for succession
Ghayab Na Jankar should have known that BJP govt will loose in Maharashtra before given community's hard earned money to Modi
Ghayab Na Jankar should have known that Covid-19 will affect Saifee Mahal and it will be sealed
Ghayab Na Jankar should have known that people in Sri Lanka will NOT welcome his entourage before he made annoucement
Well let me just stope here to get some answers before I have another list
My answer will be same for all the questions, these and any you ask in future. Being Ghayb na jaankar doesn't mean that you can avert all the problems. It simply means that they accept what is going to happen and make decisions such that in the long run it benefits the community.
Rasulallah must have also known about Abubakr but still kept him close, still married Ayesha.
Moulana Ali knew he was going to get martyred by Ibn Muljim but still woke him up.
Imam Hasan knew Muawiya will walk back on the treaty but he still signed it.
Imam Hussain knew he was walking in on a trap but still went to Karbala.

So before you ask any other question, I would like you to answer your same question in respect to these scenarios.

Qadir
Posts: 251
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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2926

Unread post by Qadir » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:26 pm

Let me give you an example for better understanding.
Let's say it me/you driving in a car race and there's also a ghayb na jaankar driving in the same race.

There's an obstacle on track just after a steep turn so you cannot see it in advance. There's a high chance that you will crash.
However the ghayb na jaankar is ahead of you in race and they know that there's an obstacle after the turn but if they try to go around it by changing lanes you will speed up and crash into the obstacle. Whereas if they stay on track and possibly crash you will try to overtake him and change lanes and be safe from the crash.
So it might seem that they didn't know about the crash to everyone else but it doesn't matter as long as the other person is safe.
I hope that helps :)

yfm
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2927

Unread post by yfm » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:52 pm

So yfm I want to ask a very simple question, where do you draw the line when it all went downhill?
Moulana Ali?
Imam Hussain?
Imam Ismail?
Imam Moiz?
Imam Tayyeb?
Syedna Hatim?
Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed?
Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin?
Syedna Abdulqadir Najmuddin?
Syedna Taher Saifuddin?
Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin?
Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin?

Also if you believe in even one of these, I assume you acknowledge nass, can you provide an alternative line of haq na dai or Imam.

My humble thoughts are that they should have kept the two separate paths in our dawat; 1. The spiritual and 2. the political.

The dais, more in the recent times than the past, tried to mingle the spiritual and the political and as a result created all these splits in our community.

I don't think our community care so much about the nass then the spiritual leader who by example and not power or money keep us united and helped us follow the spiritual path without coercion or force of obedience. They should have provided leadership.

But finally, I am not the problem solver with my meagre brainpower. If there were JUST rules and JUST adiinistrators, our sufferings would have been less.

This idea that the dai is be all and end all has to end.

The dai should not demand our allegiance based only on the fact that they are the dais from the imams.

They should be secure enough to teach us the spirit of Islam and educate us and not keep us in the ignorant sphere and make us believe that they will take us to heaven. That kind of teaching us baloney. If we are to strive to go to heaven, it is because of our deeds and the mercy of Allah and not because of our allegiance to these Dais.

Qadir
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2928

Unread post by Qadir » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:05 pm

yfm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:52 pm So yfm I want to ask a very simple question, where do you draw the line when it all went downhill?
Moulana Ali?
Imam Hussain?
Imam Ismail?
Imam Moiz?
Imam Tayyeb?
Syedna Hatim?
Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed?
Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin?
Syedna Abdulqadir Najmuddin?
Syedna Taher Saifuddin?
Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin?
Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin?

Also if you believe in even one of these, I assume you acknowledge nass, can you provide an alternative line of haq na dai or Imam.

My humble thoughts are that they should have kept the two separate paths in our dawat; 1. The spiritual and 2. the political.

The dais, more in the recent times than the past, tried to mingle the spiritual and the political and as a result created all these splits in our community.

I don't think our community care so much about the nass then the spiritual leader who by example and not power or money keep us united and helped us follow the spiritual path without coercion or force of obedience. They should have provided leadership.

But finally, I am not the problem solver with my meagre brainpower. If there were JUST rules and JUST adiinistrators, our sufferings would have been less.

This idea that the dai is be all and end all has to end.

The dai should not demand our allegiance based only on the fact that they are the dais from the imams.

They should be secure enough to teach us the spirit of Islam and educate us and not keep us in the ignorant sphere and make us believe that they will take us to heaven. That kind of teaching us baloney. If we are to strive to go to heaven, it is because of our deeds and the mercy of Allah and not because of our allegiance to these Dais.
I like your post very much. I understand what you're trying to say.
Its very appealing to imagine if a rule or two would not have existed in religion. Sometimes its very hard to follow even the simplest rules like always eating halal food.
However the rules are as they are, we cannot change them and upholding the rules guarantees smooth running of dawat in the long term.
Now one thing you mentioned was separation of spiritual matters and politics. In present politics its called separation of church and state. This idea is a very new concept and for majority of human history didn't exist. Do you think islam would have expanded as much as it has today if deen was separated from worldly politics?
Rasulallah had signed a peace treaty with Mecca tribes and under that treaty he was asked to return back to Medina when he was on his way for Umrah. So politics played a more important role there than deen.
Now on topic of allegiance, well giving misaq is considered most important part of islam under the deamat of walayat. Its not SYN's words its Syedna Qadi Noman's. Even the three khalifas took it and Imam Hussain was martyred by Yazid because he refused to. So its understood that giving allegiance must be a very integral part of islam if Imam Hussain preferred dying over giving misaq to Yazid.

yfm
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2929

Unread post by yfm » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:48 pm

Imam Ali, our Mowla told Omar or those people of those times that he was an Imam and not a Khaliph, separating religion from politics.

In the matter of our Imam Ali and our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), we can not compare these dais to the thinking of these great spiritual Beings. What we interpret as politics is not what they may have had on their minds. We only revere them and consider them as special creation of Allah.

I don't think I understand what you are trying to write to me. It is not important. What is important is not that Imam Hussein was not willing to give allegiance to yazid but his allegiance (faith) to Allah commanded him to uphold the Truth. Haq is the Truth and Haq na dai is the dai who is willing to uphold the Truth. The rest is intellectual exercise that we can indulge in. Those who believe in the Truth are ready to die for it.

yfm
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2930

Unread post by yfm » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:52 pm

Since our Imam Hussein days and Waaz are virtual, of course it gives me the opportunity to watch them. I feel sad that our dais have brought us to these state of so many divisions.

I realize it is power and money that has tempted all of them to vie for power. Also the Kothars who have also used these opportunity to make money for themselves.

It is sad, because our dawat has so many spiritual qualities and have steadfastly helped us to remain steadfast with our iman, our faith in Islam. After all Islam and it's history has been our life blood.

I must say that some progressive like the Mamujees in Kenya were money hungry themselves and believed that their wealth and money could enable them to fight our Dais. The children of the Seyedna Taher Saifuddin no doubt stirred up a lot of trouble because they would not let their egos be challenged.

But when I hear Seyedna Muhammad Burhanuddin lament the past trial and tribulations, and his eloquence, I no doubt get swayed to the dawat again and again.

There were too many challenges that he faced, but he was after all the best spiritual leader we had during his life. No question that his enemies were no match for his intellect. Only if they had learned to reconcile and not fight Seyedna Burhannuddin whom I still believe was a reasonable and just spiritual leader and the rich and wealthy because they challenged him, he had to use the iron fist. But the Kothar did not help either.
na
What I want to say is, my two cents of what ever you may claim it to be, is that Seyedna Burhanuddin as the dai had the right to change the nass if he chose during his life time. The Seyedna Khozema should not claim that once Nass had been made, it can not be revoked. I am beginning to believe that is Baloney. The spiritual dai can change the nass if in his wisdom, he believes another person could lead the dawat better.

This fight in the courts in now just an intellectual exercise, as the British would say, a fight for the "Lords". If Seyedna Burhanudding wanted to change the Nass, why should he not be able to do it.

If the religion was governed by Seyedna Mufaddal and left the adminsitration to another branch, I would continue to follow the dawat of Seyedna Mufaddal.

I am just to frustrated with the economic power in the hands of the dai. Let him have the spiritual power and let the administration be run by educated branch of his choosing who would be accountable to the Bohra community.

yfm
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2931

Unread post by yfm » Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:58 pm

When you hear the waaz from both parties, Seyedna Fakhruddin, the theme is how the betrayals took place in the nass of Imam Ali and how the message is that they are linked to Seyedna Khozema Kutbuddin and in the party of Seyedna Muffadal, the theme is along the same lines, only the Haq na dais has the authority to lead, reminding us of full allegiance to Him, since otherwise we are on the wrong path.

When you remember Imam Ali, it was left to our own love for him to give him our allegiance. His followers did not foresake HIM because there was no doubt about HIS Piety.

Imam Hussein, asked his followers to leave him and escape in the darkness of the night. None of his supporters did.

What a contrast then and now. These Dais are so insecure and engrossed in so much anger and distrust. While the Imams ensured there was no compulsion in religion.

Where is the Faith?

Qadir
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2932

Unread post by Qadir » Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:20 pm

yfm wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:52 pm Since our Imam Hussein days and Waaz are virtual, of course it gives me the opportunity to watch them. I feel sad that our dais have brought us to these state of so many divisions.

I realize it is power and money that has tempted all of them to vie for power. Also the Kothars who have also used these opportunity to make money for themselves.

It is sad, because our dawat has so many spiritual qualities and have steadfastly helped us to remain steadfast with our iman, our faith in Islam. After all Islam and it's history has been our life blood.

I must say that some progressive like the Mamujees in Kenya were money hungry themselves and believed that their wealth and money could enable them to fight our Dais. The children of the Seyedna Taher Saifuddin no doubt stirred up a lot of trouble because they would not let their egos be challenged.

But when I hear Seyedna Muhammad Burhanuddin lament the past trial and tribulations, and his eloquence, I no doubt get swayed to the dawat again and again.

There were too many challenges that he faced, but he was after all the best spiritual leader we had during his life. No question that his enemies were no match for his intellect. Only if they had learned to reconcile and not fight Seyedna Burhannuddin whom I still believe was a reasonable and just spiritual leader and the rich and wealthy because they challenged him, he had to use the iron fist. But the Kothar did not help either.
na
What I want to say is, my two cents of what ever you may claim it to be, is that Seyedna Burhanuddin as the dai had the right to change the nass if he chose during his life time. The Seyedna Khozema should not claim that once Nass had been made, it can not be revoked. I am beginning to believe that is Baloney. The spiritual dai can change the nass if in his wisdom, he believes another person could lead the dawat better.

This fight in the courts in now just an intellectual exercise, as the British would say, a fight for the "Lords". If Seyedna Burhanudding wanted to change the Nass, why should he not be able to do it.

If the religion was governed by Seyedna Mufaddal and left the adminsitration to another branch, I would continue to follow the dawat of Seyedna Mufaddal.

I am just to frustrated with the economic power in the hands of the dai. Let him have the spiritual power and let the administration be run by educated branch of his choosing who would be accountable to the Bohra community.
I like your understanding of dawat. I hope you never become like some others on this forum who claim to be (progressive) dawoodi bohra but say Imam is a coward in hiding or doesn't exist at all. Nauzobillah

Now, your grievance is actually the reason why peoblems occured. During SMB, administration shifted to an independent body (famously known as kothar) they became power hungry and became corrupt and some black sheeps in qasr enabled them. But that has changed. Administration has changed to only the higher uppers namely, Syedi Qaid Johar bs, Syedi Hussain bs, Syedi Taha bs.

Now i have said it once, i say again. Change takes time. It took another dai (SMB) to remove the 4 shaitaan from jamea while STS tolerated them. Dawat is evolving right in front of our eyes. Pandemic is making that process even faster. I hope you can try to get back, you will have your misaq taken again (if you've officially left) and everything will be forgotten.

yfm
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2933

Unread post by yfm » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:10 pm

Thank you Qadir Bhai. Inshallah. Amen.

Qadir
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2934

Unread post by Qadir » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:13 pm

While its true that the administration is being centralized, administration is also being seperated. Specifically, the 12 Umoor setup by SMS.

Also, all the waaz are of STS and SMB so you can know for sure that nothing is something fabricated by current administration

Qadir
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2935

Unread post by Qadir » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:26 pm

yfm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:10 pm Thank you Qadir Bhai. Inshallah. Amen.
Amen

SBM
Posts: 6418
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2936

Unread post by SBM » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:51 pm

Now, your grievance is actually the reason why peoblems occured. During SMB, administration shifted to an independent body (famously known as kothar) they became power hungry and became corrupt and some black sheeps in qasr enabled them. But that has changed. Administration has changed to only the higher uppers namely, Syedi Qaid Johar bs, Syedi Hussain bs, Syedi Taha bs.
So it went from CORRUPT to EXTREME CORRUPT or shall we say from Sonny Corleone to Michael Corleone (GODFATHER-if you did not get it)
Also, all the waaz are of STS and SMB
Because SMS is a LOUSY Orator and does not know what is he talking or may be LAZY to prepare.

malgudidays
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2937

Unread post by malgudidays » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:24 pm

Qadir wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:20 pm
yfm wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:52 pm Since our Imam Hussein days and Waaz are virtual, of course it gives me the opportunity to watch them. I feel sad that our dais have brought us to these state of so many divisions.

I realize it is power and money that has tempted all of them to vie for power. Also the Kothars who have also used these opportunity to make money for themselves.

It is sad, because our dawat has so many spiritual qualities and have steadfastly helped us to remain steadfast with our iman, our faith in Islam. After all Islam and it's history has been our life blood.

I must say that some progressive like the Mamujees in Kenya were money hungry themselves and believed that their wealth and money could enable them to fight our Dais. The children of the Seyedna Taher Saifuddin no doubt stirred up a lot of trouble because they would not let their egos be challenged.

But when I hear Seyedna Muhammad Burhanuddin lament the past trial and tribulations, and his eloquence, I no doubt get swayed to the dawat again and again.

There were too many challenges that he faced, but he was after all the best spiritual leader we had during his life. No question that his enemies were no match for his intellect. Only if they had learned to reconcile and not fight Seyedna Burhannuddin whom I still believe was a reasonable and just spiritual leader and the rich and wealthy because they challenged him, he had to use the iron fist. But the Kothar did not help either.
na
What I want to say is, my two cents of what ever you may claim it to be, is that Seyedna Burhanuddin as the dai had the right to change the nass if he chose during his life time. The Seyedna Khozema should not claim that once Nass had been made, it can not be revoked. I am beginning to believe that is Baloney. The spiritual dai can change the nass if in his wisdom, he believes another person could lead the dawat better.

This fight in the courts in now just an intellectual exercise, as the British would say, a fight for the "Lords". If Seyedna Burhanudding wanted to change the Nass, why should he not be able to do it.

If the religion was governed by Seyedna Mufaddal and left the adminsitration to another branch, I would continue to follow the dawat of Seyedna Mufaddal.

I am just to frustrated with the economic power in the hands of the dai. Let him have the spiritual power and let the administration be run by educated branch of his choosing who would be accountable to the Bohra community.
I like your understanding of dawat. I hope you never become like some others on this forum who claim to be (progressive) dawoodi bohra but say Imam is a coward in hiding or doesn't exist at all. Nauzobillah

Now, your grievance is actually the reason why peoblems occured. During SMB, administration shifted to an independent body (famously known as kothar) they became power hungry and became corrupt and some black sheeps in qasr enabled them. But that has changed. Administration has changed to only the higher uppers namely, Syedi Qaid Johar bs, Syedi Hussain bs, Syedi Taha bs.

Now i have said it once, i say again. Change takes time. It took another dai (SMB) to remove the 4 shaitaan from jamea while STS tolerated them. Dawat is evolving right in front of our eyes. Pandemic is making that process even faster. I hope you can try to get back, you will have your misaq taken again (if you've officially left) and everything will be forgotten.
Bhai Qadir, before calling anyone Shaitan please try to find out the truth... 4 Mutaqqi mazloom ulemas whom you are calling shaitaan were victims of YN personal animosity, and foolishness on their part of being truthful and honest to a fault..

If I will tell you will come to know the truth you will always pray fateha on them and forever would carry sadness for what happened to their families....

I agree with you on good changes happening in Dawat in terms of administration, social welfare and accountability... recent example being Sheikh Obri caught red handed by Syedi Husain Bs efforts... but please don't eat whatever is dished out to you and believe the current set up to be infallible.. ofcourse it is the best option for the mumineen of hind as it is mansub towards Imam(as) of Bani Fatema(as) and no bidaa has yet happened in Tariqa.. although can't say the same about Aqeeda(too much gulu and Shirk).... but I hope with time things will be ironed out for good and a balance would be stuck...

yfm
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2938

Unread post by yfm » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:34 pm

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, as they say or conversely, to a donkey, all look the same.

I hear Seyedna Mohammed Burhanuddin speak the Truth and the wisdom therein. I don't think Seyedna Muffadal would speak any different since these words are from our scriptures and our past Dais and Imams. In these days of Imam Hussein, days of virtue, I don't see any connotation to the God Father. If you do bhai SBM, please explain and elucidate, since we are here to learn what is in-between the lines. I do not want to stir you up except, if it adds value and not just comic.

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1021
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2939

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:06 am

Qadir wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:20 pm

Now, your grievance is actually the reason why peoblems occured. During SMB, administration shifted to an independent body (famously known as kothar) they became power hungry and became corrupt and some black sheeps in qasr enabled them. But that has changed. Administration has changed to only the higher uppers namely, Syedi Qaid Johar bs, Syedi Hussain bs, Syedi Taha bs.


qaid johar, taha and husain bs are all subservient to their mother?
in majlis, YN fitanatis bayan are relayed?
why?
never heard of him given importance before. so why suddenly now. this is recent phenomenon.
heard rumours--it is at the instructions of bu saheba and they want to bring his stature again in mainstream.
his brothers khidar bs and badruljamali are helping him.
does qaid johar , taha and hussain bs subscirbe to it?
have heard bu saheba is very strict and arrogant and has her ways nowadays.
she and her brothers are the main brain behind todays dawaat.
is it true?

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1021
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#2940

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:09 am

malgudidays wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:24 pm

I agree with you on good changes happening in Dawat in terms of administration, social welfare and accountability... recent example being Sheikh Obri caught red handed by Syedi Husain Bs efforts... but please don't eat whatever is dished out to you and believe the current set up to be infallible.. ofcourse it is the best option for the mumineen of hind as it is mansub towards Imam(as) of Bani Fatema(as) and no bidaa has yet happened in Tariqa.. although can't say the same about Aqeeda(too much gulu and Shirk).... but I hope with time things will be ironed out for good and a balance would be stuck...
obri has been left off by the order of khidar bs and badrul jamali--brothers of arrogant bu saheba.
everyone has been told to not disucss anymore of it.
the command is WAAT NE DABAAVI DO.