Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Are you a follower of KQ?
If yes, then I am willing to talk in PMs instead of hanging dirty laundry in public. After all, it is Syedna MOhammed Buhranuddin's dawat and amal that is being riduculed on a public forum. I'm sure you would accept that.

If you are not a Qutbi Bohra.
Then there is no need for discussion.

Let me know.

Salaam
I receieved the above PM from Adam Bhai and I wish to reply to him publicly.

Adam Bhai,

I am not interested in anything that cannot be said to me publicly. Not interested in insidious PMs and propaganda videos. Secondly I am not a "Qutbi" Bohra. I am a Dawoodi Bohra and I have recently given misaq to haq na dai of all Dawoodi Bohras - Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin TUS. He has once again helped me do maarefat of my beloved Burhanuddin Aqa and to take his vasila - with ikhlas - in my doa as I have done all my life. I had recently lost some of that in trying to accept the lesser man MS as my dai.
Only YOU have dirty laundry bhai, which is why you need to discuss things in PM. With "hudoods" like Malik bs and moronic bayans from the takhat by your ilm-deficient dai-wannabe, I am not surprised that you wish to discuss things in PM. I pity you your job. Take the weekend off brother, it's a losing battle for you as far as I am concerned. Be happy with the zombie thousands who are already on your side. I have found peace where I am.

Best Regards,
Crater Lake

level_headed wrote:@ Sufi Monk - please go to your masters and get a refresher course on naseehat.
Kya khichdi banayee hai.
You wrote

syedi sadiq Ali says
"ilm naa saathe laazim amal che" samjho to samjhu naa samjhu naa samjhu....

ilm na saathe laazim amal chhe - is from Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA naseehat "Allah Ta'ala no hamd tu karje"
samjho to samjhu naa samjhu naa samjhu - is from Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin naseehat "Murshid chhe logo"
and where did you get Syedi Sadiqali saheb in all of this. He wrote neither of the above naseehats.

it doesnt matters who wrote what, but did you got the point?

honestly I heard this poem in my child hood so dont really know who wrote it, but I really understand what it means ( this is what really matters)

and if it was from STS, you can read my post corrected.

ps - btw Thank you for making this point, you may know who wrote this and when, but when you dont even understand what it means ( you are a realy Fu**ing loser)

Adam wrote:And hasn't been sanctioned by the 51st or 52nd Dai that we both follow.

then why are you here brother?

btw 90% of participants here are neither followers of SKQ nor they are PDB, they are here to know truth and to decide what is best for them

so calling all those bohras as munafiq will soon back fire Inshallah

the way you want to contact people privately and brain wash them clearly shows you are not haq and you are afraid to get exposed and your lies getting caught.

Adam wrote:@Crater Lake
I was surprised at your choice, but I understand that people do strange things.

I will clarify that I chose to PM you thinking that you would have the intelligence to figure out that THIS SITE is in fact an ANTI Dawoodi Bohra site. And hasn't been sanctioned by the 51st or 52nd Dai that we both follow.
FYI it is NOT a Dawoodi Bohra forum.
This sites main aim is to tarnish Fatimi and Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and traditions. It has insulted Imams & Dais, including your current one. It is a magnet for Dawoodi Bohra haters and Sunnis & Wahabis.

If you haven't already figured this out, then there's a lot for you to learn.

I don't blame you for choosing to make my PM public, that is your choice. It just says tonnes about what your and the Qutbi Bohra intentions are. Either you want to tarnish the memory & deeds of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA (in turn foolishly tarnish your own sect image) by comparing him to an old sick man that was was taken advantage for the past 50 years and couldn't do anything about it.
Your choice shows that you would like to add more drama to this entire issue by having a bunch of Wahabis & Sunnis ridicule the entire thing. THAT IS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO PREVENT.
Going to court is still understandable. But Munafiqs? You made the wrong choice.

If two brothers have issues between themselves, they might go to a closer family member, or a close friend to solve their issues. NOT an enemy. By using this forum to spread propaganda about the Qutbi Bohra sect either means:

1. The Qutbi Bohras and the PDB Munafiqs are together on this whole thing - they are one in the same = Anti Dawoodi Bohras.
2. You don't care if Dawoodi Bohra haters continue to ridicule "our belief". That makes you a heartless believer.

My position on this forum is the same and has been from when I first joined. I only comment when lies and false accusations are being made against my Dawoodi Bohra belief. I don't involve myself in the other time pass issues of this forum.

In this case, the Qutbi Bohras are spreading lies, false rumours, twisting facts and are blinding themselves to the truth.

I have already written long answers to each of the allegations and questions. And my PM wouldn't have had anything that I wouldn't have put on a Public Forum. Especially if I was talking to an enemy of my belief, a Qutbi Bohra.

You made your choice. Let's continue.

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin did a clear Audio, Video, Written, Witnessed Nass.
Would you believe him or a claimant after his death?

You claim this site is not sanctioned, yet you are here. Let's be real. This forum, provides the only place Dawoodi Bohras can come to when what is being said on the takhat appears mildly nonsensical or plain wrong . So what if it attracts Sunnis and Wahhabis and Kothar mouthpieces such as yourself. It also attracts other Mumineen who want to evaluate the situation objectively rather than tow the party line. When I tried to question MS rants to my aamil, I was insulted, abused and rebuked.
As far as clear audio, video Nass...There was nothing clear about audio and video. As far as I am concerned, the time to present evidence is long gone. Everything that appears late on the scene is suspect. Unfortunately I have had opportunity to observe the kavatras of his sons up close and personal and I am loathe to accept anything they have to offer. Burhanuddin Moula had the takhat for 50 years and he did not do a clear nass. Any media can be manipulated. If he was willing to say what you claim he said about MS in public, he could have said it one year ago, two days ago, five years ago. when he had clear speech. I was there for umpteen Asharas and other miqats and nothing was said by Burhanuddin Moula. So I must go by what his Mazoon says not what his sons say. If he says he did nass on him in private, I am happy to believe it because he has the character and the rutba to back it up. I have been witness to his persecution all my life so I can understand why that nass was private. Also, this site has now served it's purpose for me. So I will take your leave. Please go find someone else to pester with your lame arguments.

Way to go @Crater Lake! Nice job calling out Adam and his duplicity. This forum, mocking our beliefs, yada yada yada...when he has been here wayyyyy longer than any of us. You make all of us Dawoodi Bohras proud! The Mufaddalies can have their @Adam.

Gotta love Adam's logic:
You made my PM public so you are here to tarnish the image of Buhanuddin Moula.
Sunnis and Wahhabis are making a mockery of Fatemi beliefs on this site so you must avoid this site, but I can stay.
You are such a genius Adam. I notice that the real Dawoodi Bohras (a more acceptable term for you guys?) are ignoring all Sunni, Wahhabi, anti-bohra statements. You on the other hand have chosen to acknowledge them.

Crate Lake wrote:As far as clear audio, video Nass...There was nothing clear about audio and video. As far as I am concerned, the time to present evidence is long gone. Everything that appears late on the scene is suspect. Unfortunately I have had opportunity to observe the kavatras of his sons up close and personal and I am loathe to accept anything they have to offer. Burhanuddin Moula had the takhat for 50 years and he did not do a clear nass. Any media can be manipulated. If he was willing to say what you claim he said about MS in public, he could have said it one year ago, two days ago, five years ago. when he had clear speech. I was there for umpteen Asharas and other miqats and nothing was said by Burhanuddin Moula. So I must go by what his Mazoon says not what his sons say. If he says he did nass on him in private, I am happy to believe it because he has the character and the rutba to back it up. I have been witness to his persecution all my life so I can understand why that nass was private. Also, this site has now served it's purpose for me. So I will take your leave. Please go find someone else to pester with your lame arguments.

Adam and friends,

I must say that the above (highlighted in color and bold) is one of the several reasons that I am leaning towards the Mazoom Saheb, now Syedna Qutubuddin. Burhanudding Moula did not say anything when he was hale and hearty, and by the Grace of Allah it was for a long period of time. Any human being knows that death can come at any time, and nominating a successor was one of his responsibilities. That lends credence to the idea that he may have done the nass in private. May times mumineen wondered: Why is Maula not doing nass? If we had access to his inner thoughts, they could have been (purely my guess) along the following lines: "You all don't know about it, but I have already done nass in private and that is why I am not saying anything in public". Again, this is just a possibility, at this point Allah knows best; but it lends credence to Mazoom Saheb's claim.

And far from the point that Burhanuddin Moula was weak; in fact, for the last 10 + years, before the stroke, he had such a sway over the community that his word was the law. And Muffadal Moula and his brothers were always with him. So he could have announced anytime. That he did not do it when he was hale and hearty, which was for ~ 47 years, and he did it exactly a few hours after he had a stroke - just let me say it this way, it does not pass the smell test.

james wrote:

Haqq_Prevails wrote: Mukasir is an aala rutba, but still superceded by the only other rutba after the dai with Mutlaq raza and that is that of the Mazoon.

You got fitting replies from @Sufi and @saminaben. Just reiterating so it gets thru your knuckle head.
BTW this whole episode of all the Hudood and family of a dai going against the mazoon was played earlier in history and we as Dawoodi Bohras sided with the Mazoon Syedna Dawood bin Qutubshah. Learn from History, don't repeat it.

For the benefit of the readers,could you please cite example(s) of a Mukasir(s) gone against Dawat?

Also,during the tenure of Syedna Dawood bin Qutubshah, are you sure every Hudat Kiram of the previous Dai went against Syedna Dawood bin Qutubshah? Was it Syedna Dawood vs all the Hudat Kiram of the previous Dai + Sulaiman ?

Think very carefully and then attempt to answer.Your lies and distortion don't wash here.

Bump.

Who are/were these Hudat Kiram?

Kimanumunu
This is already discussed earlier on the thread. Just scroll past and you'll see responses and discussions.

It's a mere distraction away from People exposing Adam's POV. James is reviving a previously discussed threads to take attention away from current postings.

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:crater Lake wrote:

As far as clear audio, video Nass...There was nothing clear about audio and video. As far as I am concerned, the time to present evidence is long gone. Everything that appears late on the scene is suspect. Unfortunately I have had opportunity to observe the kavatras of his sons up close and personal and I am loathe to accept anything they have to offer. Burhanuddin Moula had the takhat for 50 years and he did not do a clear nass. Any media can be manipulated. If he was willing to say what you claim he said about MS in public, he could have said it one year ago, two days ago, five years ago. when he had clear speech. I was there for umpteen Asharas and other miqats and nothing was said by Burhanuddin Moula. So I must go by what his Mazoon says not what his sons say. If he says he did nass on him in private, I am happy to believe it because he has the character and the rutba to back it up. I have been witness to his persecution all my life so I can understand why that nass was private. Also, this site has now served it's purpose for me. So I will take your leave. Please go find someone else to pester with your lame arguments.

---------------------------------------
Adam and friends,

I must say that the above (highlighted in color and bold) is one of the several reasons that I am leaning towards the Mazoom Saheb, now Syedna Qutubuddin. Burhanudding Moula did not say anything when he was hale and hearty, and by the Grace of Allah it was for a long period of time. Any human being knows that death can come at any time, and nominating a successor was one of his responsibilities. That lends credence to the idea that he may have done the nass in private. May times mumineen wondered: Why is Maula not doing nass? If we had access to his inner thoughts, they could have been (purely my guess) along the following lines: "You all don't know about it, but I have already done nass in private and that is why I am not saying anything in public". Again, this is just a possibility, at this point Allah knows best; but it lends credence to Mazoom Saheb's claim.

And far from the point that Burhanuddin Moula was weak; in fact, for the last 10 + years, before the stroke, he had such a sway over the community that his word was the law. And Muffadal Moula and his brothers were always with him. So he could have announced anytime. That he did not do it when he was hale and hearty, which was for ~ 47 years, and he did it exactly a few hours after he had a stroke - just let me say it this way, it does not pass the smell test.

hey DCP
going by the logics you are true to prove your point. but than as you said "Everything that appears late on the scene is suspect. " why was KQ quite for all this numbers of years when the Raudat tahera was played. don't give me he was under oath, have already replied to that on Re: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Co
Postby MUSTAPH on Mon May 26, 2014 1:09 am

Do you really believe that a dai is essential to take you to jannat or your belief in KQ is more to enjoy the thrill of breaking from the mainstream.

james wrote:

saminaben wrote:
HusainBhai sahebz sons and family now manipulate him while he is frail - same way burhanuddin maulas son and family manipulated him after stroke.

You are digging a bigger hole for yourself. Not that I am complaining.

You claim,

His Holiness Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was MANIPULATED.

His Mukasir Dawat Syedi Husain Bhaisaheb Husamuddin DM was/is MANIPULATED.

You are silent on the other Hudood Kiram of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. What about them? Were they manipulated in your opinion?

Only Khuzaima was free from any manipulation whatsoever. I laughed again.

Out of morbid curiosity,have you heard bayan of Syedi Husain Bhaisaheb Husamuddin DM after wafat of the 52nd Dai RA ?

On Sunday, 25th Rabi al Awwal 1435, during the Sadaqallah Majlis of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, Syedi Mukasir Saheb Husamuddin (despite his age and health), stood and did a bayaan in the hazrat of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS:

He did shukr araz that had had the good fortune of serving 3 Dais, Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.
He said the Syedna Mufaddal TUS was the mansoos of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and the Nusoos (plural Nass) from the time of Ghadeer e Khum have reached him.
He then went on to say that he was Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddins TUS humble servant, and would remain in his khidmat till his last breath.
Syedi Mukasir Saheb then clarified the ikhlaas ni tasawwur saying “maraatib na maalik aap cho” (you are the owner of the maraatib (rutba) (of Dawat), and then recited an ayah of the Quran (Aale Imran:26) saying it is solely the Dais right to give and his to take.
He ended by saying that the impostors that do inkaar (reject) of the True Nass in reality have done inkaar (rejected) of ALL the previous Nass, and are mustahiq (worthy) of la’nat.
Immediately after completing is bayaan, he gestured allegiance and kissed the ground before the feet of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS and did salaam and qadambosi.

http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/ ... n-example/

and then recited an ayah of the Quran (Aale Imran:26) saying it is solely the Dais right to give and his to take.

Your Dai seems to have been taking something that was giving him delusions of grandeur. Ale Imran:26 says that it is Allah's right to give and His to take!! It is Allah's right and not your Dai's!!

My son gave me an interesting perspective. He has been a Madresah brainwashed abde (now an adult) whom I have tried in the recent past to transform by acknowledging my own mistakes and erring ways of being a somewhat of a blind follower. Something must have been brewing inside his head last few months. This is the gist of his perspective:

STS did Nass on mansoos SMB several times in his reign and whole world knew. He also kept SMB as his Mazoon.. STS HIMSELF was appointed by his brother SAB, who was appointed by his father SMB 49 dai. It seems logical that since he STS was younger brother to SAB, he would want to carry on his father (senior SMB TRADITION) of appointing mansoos on his older son first, then the older son would appoint his younger brother. Similarly, 52nd dai was given advice by STS TO APPOINT SKQ as Mazoon and mansoos of SMB. The fact that SMB 52nd did not make public this nass for 50 years will always remain a cause of dissent in the community is something SMB was aware of all along. That is why he always said - repeatedly, how much he loves his mumineens, and that whenever they are in trouble they should remember him.

That's where he ended this conversation and would not go further after much probing.
When I probed a bit more all he said was

I don't get it why if both SKQ and SMS believe they are dai, they don't appoint rutba of Mazoon and Mukasir in their respective Dawats. That is the most disturbing thing for me right now. If they themselves have no faith in the rutba of 2nd and 3rd in command, then why should I believe in the 1st rutba either? .

Hmmm. Hmmm. . .

My son is thinking . . . My husband gone nuts between me and now him.

@saminaben

Your son reflects my own current situation very well. I don't feel particularly pulled towards either of the two. And the point about the Mazoon and Mukasir rutbas does raise valid questions. If you go with SMS then the precedent has been set that even if he appoints a Mazoon one will have to ask whether that is the zahir one or batin one i.e. who is the real Mazoon? Similarly, SKQ has not appointed anyone either - what does that mean? He wants to keep it secret? When will the secret be revealed?

hasman001 wrote:Is this confirmed news that the solicitors have recused? Is there any mention in the press?

No mention in press, but solicitors have definitely changed for reasons I don't know. New solicitors are J. Sagar Associates.
http://www.jsalaw.com/

After longtime, a good discussion is going on. Kimanumanu has valid arguments. SKQ is still taking a stand along with few followers especially after nass audio/video. I ask myself Why? What's motive? He has wealth, good blessed and learned children, peaceful life choice. Is he so much of self centered and proud that he can't stand someone junior to him proceeded him? I don't think so. I had been in touch with SKQ camp for sometime but they didn't force me at all. They said, if your heart says SKQ is right, believe with conviction. At the same time, SKQ is so quiet on doing any action. He should start going visiting masajids , ziyarats and challenge the SMS.

There was a topic on this forum titled 'London nass hospital video and audio' with many posts, but Admin has deleted it.

Why?

confusedaboutnass wrote:There was a topic on this forum titled 'London nass hospital video and audio' with many posts, but Admin has deleted it.

Why?

Hasn't been deleted but clubbed with the present topic. Go on Search and you'll see it is clubbed together with this.

saminaben wrote: When I probed a bit more all he said was

I don't get it why if both SKQ and SMS believe they are dai, they don't appoint rutba of Mazoon and Mukasir in their respective Dawats. .

These Rutbaas have been appointed in seclusion and they are now “Gaaib / Purdaah” so we have now 1 Imam, 2 Mazoon and 1 Mukasir in seclusion.

best there should be elections on this and every 5years there should be relections. wow imagine bohras becoming liberated. we all will be owners of ourselves and not slaves of our dais who claim to be on the spiritual lineage of Maula Ali. Maula Ali although was a imam and had very less followers than but was for his ummat more than ummat being for him.

humanbeing wrote:These Rutbaas have been appointed in seclusion and they are now “Gaaib / Purdaah” so we have now 1 Imam, 2 Mazoon and 1 Mukasir in seclusion.

Hope the Dai too goes in Gaaib/Purdaah like Mr.India then all bohras can live in peace !

A question
(God forbid) if SMS or SkQ have any unforeseen accident like Gopinath Munde, how does succession will take place since none of them have a Mazoon, In SKQ it may be easier since Daiship will go to his children but wonder what happens in SMS camp?

SBM wrote:(God forbid) if SMS or SkQ have any unforeseen accident like Gopinath Munde, how does succession will take place since none of them have a Mazoon, In SKQ it may be easier since Daiship will go to his children but wonder what happens in SMS camp?

Considering the more then 2000 members of the so called "Royals" extended family, Bohraism will have 74 sects !

TO ALL,
Dear Friends kindly speculate your views about the outcomes of this court case. Nothing concrete is happening. Tarikh pe Tarikh and beating around the bush
That's it. Khuzema qutbuddin saheb and muffadal saifuddin bhaisaheb both are lobbying since day one nationally and internationally. The tug-of-war is on and I think it will continue for long time
Will there be any amicable solutions?. Yeh Tera Yeh Mera so that both can survive. Because they have collected more than kubair's treasure. Kindly put in your views and possibilities of this situations in this thread.

What is the purpose of it? This issue is not predictable. Might as well wait for the reality rather than fantacising about it.

Don't pay dues and levies until the case is finalised

This will jolt them to move faster

STOP MONEY SUPPLY

no one is getting a dime from me now on, and you all should do same.

If I will wish to gift some one, I will buy gifts but no money supply.