Iftitah of Thane Masjid

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true_bohra
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#31

Unread post by true_bohra » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:21 am

zinger your points are correct.

It was unfortunate that 18 people died in mishap and if janaza was taken on shoulder, it could have worsen the situation and it could also lead to behurmati of janaza mubarak of Maula RA.

It is fine that janaza was taken on truck and reformist shouting rather than witnessing behurmati of Maula's janaza.

@GM:
yes Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb RA walked barefoot but you failed to observe that Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS was also barefoot when the janaza was carried. To avoid the rush of people the janaza was on shoulder from saify masjid to raudat tahera and not on any hearse .

zinger
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#32

Unread post by zinger » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:06 am

True Bohra bhai,

you are right. perhaps the most important and overpowering of all reasons was to avoid the behurmati of the janaaza. emotions were extremely, extremely high that day and with lakhs of people rushing to give kandha, it is 100% possible that in all the jostling and pushing, the janazaa would have gotten mishandled. thanks for pointing this out. i have completelty overlooked this one main point

humanbeing
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#33

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:08 am

true_bohra wrote: if janaza was taken on shoulder, it could have worsen the situation and it could also lead to behurmati of janaza mubarak of Maula RA.
Behurmati of janaza happened, when the abdes were circulating the photos of deceased SMB on whatsapp ! I don’t know about bohra philosophy, but there are principles regarding “respect-for-dead”. Ethical News channels do not present / broadcast dead bodies in media and blurs them out wherever applicable !

Such is the emphasis/mandate on the “Raza”.. how did those pictures circulated ? when Kothar is the owner of Jaan & Maal of abde bohras and not a leaf can move without “Raza” of the Dai !! How dare abdes circulate a picture unless it is allowed in bohra philosophy ( please correct me if I m wrong)

Did not Ghaib-na-janaar Mansoos Dai SMS know that a stampede could occur by allowing such an overwhelming crowd !! There were SMS sent inviting bohras to visit the funeral procession ! it was like an event that attracted people from outside Mumbai overnight !!

As per usual practice, deceased are buried within 12 – 48 hours no-matter-what, for how long was body of SMB kept ?

zinger
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#34

Unread post by zinger » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:55 am

humanbeing wrote:
true_bohra wrote: if janaza was taken on shoulder, it could have worsen the situation and it could also lead to behurmati of janaza mubarak of Maula RA.
Behurmati of janaza happened, when the abdes were circulating the photos of deceased SMB on whatsapp ! I don’t know about bohra philosophy, but there are principles regarding “respect-for-dead”. Ethical News channels do not present / broadcast dead bodies in media and blurs them out wherever applicable ! that is not true. there was no behrumati of the janazaa. i for one, was extremely and am eternally grateful to Ghulam Mohammad bhai for posting these pics. and you know why? because so many lakhs of people who were outside India could not do aakhri deedar of Burhanuddin Maula. hence we will always cherish them. i may not have thanked him then, but i would like to do so now. Thank you GM bhai for posting the pics. This is not behurmati of the janazaa in any ways at all. you are just looking for points to argue on now. also, media blurs out pictures of bodies that are mutilated. not someone in his resting place

Such is the emphasis/mandate on the “Raza”.. how did those pictures circulated ? when Kothar is the owner of Jaan & Maal of abde bohras and not a leaf can move without “Raza” of the Dai !! How dare abdes circulate a picture unless it is allowed in bohra philosophy ( please correct me if I m wrong) you are wrong. common sense dictates it. again, a futile attempt to make an argument for a case that doesnt exist. and since when did you start caring so much about raza that you are making a big deal of it now?

Did not Ghaib-na-janaar Mansoos Dai SMS know that a stampede could occur by allowing such an overwhelming crowd !! There were SMS sent inviting bohras to visit the funeral procession ! it was like an event that attracted people from outside Mumbai overnight !! you are right. i did get the sms too. but fact is that perhaps kothar underestimated the dawoodi bohra psyche for once and did not expect a crowd as the one that turned up. this was extremely sad, i agree. as for ghaib na jaankar, i have no answer for that. you should ask Mufaddal Maula yourself when you meet him

As per usual practice, deceased are buried within 12 – 48 hours no-matter-what, for how long was body of SMB kept ? a little over 24 hours. 8 or 8.30am on Friday to around 11.30 or 12 noon on Saturday. unless you subscribe to the conspiracy theory that he became wafaat days earlier
My answers above in bold

humanbeing
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#35

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:31 am

I retract my words of circulating the picture of deceased Dai to be wrong ! and open to be corrected with further discussion.


In my personal opinion I don’t find it respectful ! With regards to “respect-for-dead” principle applies to any deadbody regardless of condition ! it is a matter of one’s right to privacy !

I tender my apologies in this context and limit my views as personal !

zinger
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#36

Unread post by zinger » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:43 am

humanbeing wrote:I retract my words of circulating the picture of deceased Dai to be wrong ! and open to be corrected with further discussion.


In my personal opinion I don’t find it respectful ! With regards to “respect-for-dead” principle applies to any deadbody regardless of condition ! it is a matter of one’s right to privacy !

I tender my apologies in this context and limit my views as personal !

Bro, no need to get so defensive. maybe you are right and i am wrong. who knows. neither of us are experts on Sharia which is why i argued with you purely on an emotional POV, not legal

no need for apologies. you havent abused or degraded anyone. you said what you thought was correct, i said what i thought was correct. case over.

maybe you are right. it was not respectful to circulate pictures, but it wasnt "any" dead body.
it was the body of a man who we loved immensely, and do so even today.
and there were so many, myself included, who did not get the chance to do the aakhri deedar but we consoled ourselves with these pics that GMbhai had put up.
i circulated them to so many in my group too because i knew there were many, like me, who were mehroom of seeing our Dai one last time

humanbeing
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#37

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:51 am

All due respect to people’s faith ! It is a selfish act ! if one has love, respect and affection they can admire countless smiling photos of SMB. A deadbody photo does not present any emotion or response ! one would like to be looked at being aware and respond. Here people where looking at SMB’s deceased photo without his “Raza” !!

way2go
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#38

Unread post by way2go » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:27 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
adna_mumin wrote:Did any mumin get the sharaf of kaandha devu in 2014? What was it like in 1965, did people get the sharaf then?
During the Janaza of Taher Saifuddin saab in 1965, Mohammed Burhanuddin saab had WALKED BAREFOOTED alongwith the Janaza right from Saifee Mahal upto Bhendi Bazaar.
One can argue that the crowds and traffic situation could have prompted the decision to take the janaaza mubarak on a truck but it definately is no excuse to back the janaaza and stand up to 'wave' to the crowds. Niether is there an excuse for other shehzadas sitting around as if a royal procession was taking place. Please no one say this never happened because there are videos taken of the happenings and these stand as proof.

humanbeing
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#39

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:13 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:During the Janaza of Taher Saifuddin saab in 1965, Mohammed Burhanuddin saab had WALKED BAREFOOTED alongwith the Janaza right from Saifee Mahal upto Bhendi Bazaar.
Distance between saifee Mahal and Bhendi bazaar is quite a lot ! In that case, it is commendable for the followers and Dai to have walked with janaza that long in addition to the emotional pain !

true_bohra
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#40

Unread post by true_bohra » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:15 am

The bottom line is that you all have problem in every action of Dai but are backing that guy who was absent from the janaza.

You have problems that janaza was taken on truck but not on the person who did not appear for the janaza of that Maula who made him maazoon.

way2go
Posts: 181
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#41

Unread post by way2go » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:25 am

true_bohra wrote:The bottom line is that you all have problem in every action of Dai but are backing that guy who was absent from the janaza.

You have problems that janaza was taken on truck but not on the person who did not appear for the janaza of that Maula who made him maazoon.
Please t_b do not say things for effect. It is a well documented fact that KQ was one of the first people to pay his respects to the janaaza mubarak of the departed soul. He even wrote a letter to MS and Mukasir saheb to let him preside the ghusl ceremony which was not heeded.

And please.......have some respect!!! By saying 'that guy' you are reeking of no culture.... No true bohra speaks in such a derogatory manner.

Akhtiar Wahid
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#42

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:55 am

true_bohra wrote:The bottom line is that you all have problem in every action of Dai but are backing that guy who was absent from the janaza.

You have problems that janaza was taken on truck but not on the person who did not appear for the janaza of that Maula who made him maazoon.
Even i was absent from Janaza so does that mean even i am guilty for not coming to the funeral. Every person has his/her real life problems and has to compromise. True_bohra you being a kothar representative cannot understand emotions but can easily play with one.
In this case the question was of succession and doing Tawali of the Marhoom Dai by the current Dai, if he would have came and attended the funeral as a commoner, than there would have been no effect of him proving this movement that he is the true and real 53rd Dai-ul-Mutlaq.
Now as usual you will not answer and avoid this reply of mine.

true_bohra
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#43

Unread post by true_bohra » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:32 pm

Why would i not reply.

Firstly i dont know where you belong to...he was present in mumbai and was maazoon for the Dai. Actually you are right, every person has his/her life problems, for him it was to launch his much awaited website....

He would have received much more support if he would have come for janaza of Maula rather than sitting jn darus saqifa. If he was the true dai, his naas would have meant everything to him. Forget about janaza, where was he when Maula had stroke and was bought to mumbai.

Did he come to ask for his health.if you dont know the answer then let me tell you, he flew a night before when Maula reached India.

As far as kothar representative is concerned, i represent a common true bohra whom Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS nurtured and blessed with his benedictions for which i will always be grateful and indebted towards them.

haqniwaat
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#44

Unread post by haqniwaat » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:29 pm

Even if he had try to come, do you think your zaadas would have let him in? They create blockades for him wherever he tries to go. Why don't you go and see how they treat him? Oh, I'm sorry, it's too late now, cause the zadas own the place! He was mazoon, for God's sake! Go ask an alavi or sulaimani bohra what a mazoon is, cause dawoodi just don't know - or actually, they do, it's just that they're not sure which one is zahir and batin.
Brain dead.

Adam
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#45

Unread post by Adam » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:50 am

If he wanted to come, AND was afraid of being attacked. He could have stood in the crowds and joint the Namaaz.
The Janaza namaaz was held throughout Saify Masjid, Raudat Tahera, and on the entire street of Mohammedally Road.
All he could have done was attend, stand on any corner and pray the Janaza Namaaz, in a place where no one would have known.

No excuses

Saif53
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#46

Unread post by Saif53 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:56 am

All the questions raised above were in fact raised by the Qutbi faction right at the beginning.
All these answers were given on this site. Have a look, and educate yourself.

http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/ ... nal-rites/
http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/ ... en-absent/
http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/ ... -ra-index/

AmmarHussaini
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#47

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:08 am

to be honest I agree with green Adam,

KQ is more gunehgar of community than muffaddal, KQ remain on dawat rutba for 50 years and even after knowing that things are wrong in community he remained silent and let the goondas loot people.

while on other hand we have mufaddal who is chor and thug but he is sincere about it, 90% of people I meet they agree they dont see any dai quality in muffy but he is good as far as he is managing money flow in dawat.

muffy is chor and goonda but at least he is doing this loot in open and nothing is under purdah.

zinger
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#48

Unread post by zinger » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:12 am

AmmarHussaini wrote:to be honest I agree with green Adam,

KQ is more gunehgar of community than muffaddal, KQ remain on dawat rutba for 50 years and even after knowing that things are wrong in community he remained silent and let the goondas loot people.

while on other hand we have mufaddal who is chor and thug but he is sincere about it, 90% of people I meet they agree they dont see any dai quality in muffy but he is good as far as he is managing money flow in dawat.

muffy is chor and goonda but at least he is doing this loot in open and nothing is under purdah.

Damn dude :shock:

Tera monginis and sequence ka avtaar was exact opposite man... us mein toh you were like SKQ Zindabad and now you are SKQ Murdabad???

Boy... i'd hate to be you right now :cry:

you remind me of Aamir Khan of Ghajini who keeps forgetting what he is to do

haqniwaat
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#49

Unread post by haqniwaat » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:35 pm

Not surprised. Many people are confused because the zaadas have won. They poisoned the minds of the people with their zahir batin nonsense, declared the mazoon unfit, and succeeded in gaining control. Coup d'etat! And all the while syedna kept taking mazoon's name in misaq, even mufaddal bs - although he added his name in front of the mazoon as mansoos. But no problem. The misaq that has been taken for almost a thousand years was CHANGED by mufaddal bs to include "mansoos" before mazoon and mukasir. So now, it's dai, mansoos, mazoon, mukasir. Then, you get rid of the mazoon, do laanat on him, and call yourself dai.
Yes, the zaadas have won, just like sulaiman won before. And the stupid people, wanting glamour and glory, will stay with sulaiman mufaddal bs.

Adam
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#50

Unread post by Adam » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:03 pm

haqniwaat wrote:Not surprised. Many people are confused because the zaadas have won. They poisoned the minds of the people with their zahir batin nonsense, declared the mazoon unfit, and succeeded in gaining control. Coup d'etat! And all the while syedna kept taking mazoon's name in misaq, even mufaddal bs - although he added his name in front of the mazoon as mansoos. But no problem. The misaq that has been taken for almost a thousand years was CHANGED by mufaddal bs to include "mansoos" before mazoon and mukasir. So now, it's dai, mansoos, mazoon, mukasir. Then, you get rid of the mazoon, do laanat on him, and call yourself dai.
Yes, the zaadas have won, just like sulaiman won before. And the stupid people, wanting glamour and glory, will stay with sulaiman mufaddal bs.
What a twisting of facts.
1. Misaq wasn't "changed". The Mansoos's name was added after the Dai. Because that's where the Mansoos's position is. After the Dai.

2. In your opinion, since (of IT) Syedna Mufaddal is the Mansoos, where should his name have come in the Misaq?

3. Mukasir Saheb didn't have an issue with it? Why do you?

4. If the Misaq was being changed, why didn't KQ say or do anything? Isn't it his responsibility to protect the Dawat from changes?

5. The 53rd Dai got rid of him, because by being the imposter, he was relieved of his position.


kimanumanu
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#51

Unread post by kimanumanu » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:53 pm

Adam, what will be your answer to this question: "Who was the Mazoon of the 52nd dai (RA)?"

seeker110
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#52

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:07 pm

kimanumanu wrote:Adam, what will be your answer to this question: "Who was the Mazoon of the 52nd dai (RA)?"
A good question for the Imam in direct communication with the Dai.

adna_mumin
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#53

Unread post by adna_mumin » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:19 pm

Adam wrote:
haqniwaat wrote:Not surprised. Many people are confused because the zaadas have won. They poisoned the minds of the people with their zahir batin nonsense, declared the mazoon unfit, and succeeded in gaining control. Coup d'etat! And all the while syedna kept taking mazoon's name in misaq, even mufaddal bs - although he added his name in front of the mazoon as mansoos. But no problem. The misaq that has been taken for almost a thousand years was CHANGED by mufaddal bs to include "mansoos" before mazoon and mukasir. So now, it's dai, mansoos, mazoon, mukasir. Then, you get rid of the mazoon, do laanat on him, and call yourself dai.
Yes, the zaadas have won, just like sulaiman won before. And the stupid people, wanting glamour and glory, will stay with sulaiman mufaddal bs.
What a twisting of facts.
1. Misaq wasn't "changed". The Mansoos's name was added after the Dai. Because that's where the Mansoos's position is. After the Dai.


There had been 52 Dai and 51 mansoos up until then. Why nothing warranted this change that had to be done only now? Why even Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA could have added the word mansoos for Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA, so much the easier as the same name for both Mazoon and Mansoos and he did NOT... WHY?

2. In your opinion, since (of IT) Syedna Mufaddal is the Mansoos, where should his name have come in the Misaq?
Already explained in point 1. A Mansoos name has not had the need to be added for 52 duat mutlaqeen. What is the difference now?

3. Mukasir Saheb didn't have an issue with it? Why do you?
The appointed Mazoon ud dawat of Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA does. So it should unless your misaq was corrupt and thereby your aqeedah.

4. If the Misaq was being changed, why didn't KQ say or do anything? Isn't it his responsibility to protect the Dawat from changes?

5. The 53rd Dai got rid of him, because by being the imposter, he was relieved of his position.

My comments to your convenient posturing in BLUE

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#54

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:03 pm

adna_mumin wrote:Why even Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA could have added the word mansoos for Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA, so much the easier as the same name for both Mazoon and Mansoos and he did NOT... WHY?
Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb was born in 1915 and was declared Mazoon-e-Dawat and successor by Nass-Jali in 1938 when he was 19 years old. Burhanuddin Saheb was Mazoon-e-Dawat till 1965 when his father and 51st Dawoodi Bohra Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb died. Though Nass was conferred on him in 1938 till 1965 he was known as “Mazoon-e-Dawat and he was never called as “Mansoos”.

haqniwaat
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#55

Unread post by haqniwaat » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:00 pm

Misaq WAS changed by mufaddal bs. That's a fact.

humanbeing
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#56

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:24 am

Kothar Inc, must add all the position titles which represent the hidden imam and visible dai ! amils, ayaans, sheikhs, mullahs, nkd, mkd etc. after all. they are too raza na sahib and carry street level responsibility of collecting funds, pressuring, spying etc.

When we argue with these job titles of providing accounts or be austere in their spendings, they cry out oud “raza-na-sahib” delegation of authority. Funnily I asked once accounts of the project for which they were demanding hoob, they retorted ; maula is only accountable to hidden imam and no one else. To which I answered, “I am asking accounts from you” not “maula”.

Moiz_Dhaanu
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#57

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:17 pm

Adam wrote:If he wanted to come, AND was afraid of being attacked. He could have stood in the crowds and joint the Namaaz.
The Janaza namaaz was held throughout Saify Masjid, Raudat Tahera, and on the entire street of Mohammedally Road.
All he could have done was attend, stand on any corner and pray the Janaza Namaaz, in a place where no one would have known.

No excuses
Wow!! Your post says it all (disgusting)
Look how confidently you mentioned about no mumin being able to recognise the Mazun if he stood in a corner ( for whom they gave misaaq for 50 years)..i presume you were probably one of those in the forefront to discredit his rutba for all these years , cause only someone who has been so instrumental in this fitnat against Mazun of syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin(RA) can claim this blasphemous scenario with such conviction.

I pity your "nook and corner roadside" thinking

ponga bhori
Posts: 410
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#58

Unread post by ponga bhori » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:34 pm

Moiz_Dhaanu wrote:
Adam wrote:If he wanted to come, AND was afraid of being attacked. He could have stood in the crowds and joint the Namaaz.
The Janaza namaaz was held throughout Saify Masjid, Raudat Tahera, and on the entire street of Mohammedally Road.
All he could have done was attend, stand on any corner and pray the Janaza Namaaz, in a place where no one would have known.

No excuses
Wow!! Your post says it all (disgusting)
Look how confidently you mentioned about no mumin being able to recognise the Mazun if he stood in a corner ( for whom they gave misaaq for 50 years)..i presume you were probably one of those in the forefront to discredit his rutba for all these years , cause only someone who has been so instrumental in this fitnat against Mazun of syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin(RA) can claim this blasphemous scenario with such conviction.

I pity your "nook and corner roadside" thinking

The fact is that he was there and led the prayers but no one noticed him.

AmmarHussaini
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Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#59

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:21 pm

as Adam mentioned no one even knows how mazoon looks like, so it was good for him to come in disguises and pray behind.

isnt it a shame that bohras dont even know how their mazoon looks?

AmmarHussaini
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#60

Unread post by AmmarHussaini » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:32 pm

btw when mazoon sahab was not seen in funeral, did muffy or his dumb brothers or any of their chamcha tried to contact mazoom sahab to inquire why he is not seen in funeral?

or was muffy just so happy that finally his father is dead and now he can do ayyashi as he wants?