Iftitah of Thane Masjid

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truth seeker100
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:54 pm

Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#61

Unread post by truth seeker100 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:15 am

haqniwaat wrote:Misaq WAS changed by mufaddal bs. That's a fact.
not only misaq he has changes islam itself for these abdes

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#62

Unread post by Adam » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:13 am

@kimanumanu
Adam, what will be your answer to this question: "Who was the Mazoon of the 52nd dai (RA)?"

So easy! It was KQ, who is now an imposter and been removed from his post!

@adna Mumin & haqniwaat
Misaq WAS changed by mufaddal bs. That's a fact.

There had been 52 Dai and 51 mansoos up until then. Why nothing warranted this change that had to be done only now? Why even Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA could have added the word mansoos for Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA, so much the easier as the same name for both Mazoon and Mansoos and he did NOT... WHY?

Please give me reference to Syedna Taher Saifuddin s Misaq.
The "additions" was from Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's instructions.
If the Misaq shouldn't have been changed, why didn't KQ speak up? Wasn't it his responsiblity?
If the Misaq coud not be changed, EVER, how was in translated from Arabic to Lisan Dawat? Why did Syedna Taher Saifuddin himself add the words "zere dast" in the Misaq? Why did he change it?
You can find all your Misaq related answers here:
http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/ ... e-meethaq/

@GM
Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb was born in 1915 and was declared Mazoon-e-Dawat and successor by Nass-Jali in 1938 when he was 19 years old. Burhanuddin Saheb was Mazoon-e-Dawat till 1965 when his father and 51st Dawoodi Bohra Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb died. Though Nass was conferred on him in 1938 till 1965 he was known as “Mazoon-e-Dawat and he was never called as “Mansoos”.

INCORRECT.
Syedna Taher Saifuddin and other hudood referred to him as Mazoon, Mansoos, Bhai, Mansoor al Yemen, Qurrato Aiyne Imamil Muttaqeen and much more.

What are you implying here?
What would have the other Mansoos who weren't Mazoons be referred to as? Or did they not exist?

About the Janaza Namaaz
The fact is that he was there and led the prayers but no one noticed him.

So was he there or not? Because everyone else says he wasn't? Surely someone from his clan would have taken a picture of him to prove his presence?

as Adam mentioned no one even knows how mazoon looks like, so it was good for him to come in disguises and pray behind.


Stop twisting words. I never said no would would recognise him. I said he could have stood in a place where no one would notice him.
Example... In the LAST tiny Saf, if he stood, where there was no one behind him, no one would have noticed him.
He could have stood in between 10 of his people and they could have blocked anyone's view if he was amoung them.
They could have even entered a private flat in the area and prayed from there.
Considering the hustle bustle of Bhendi Bazaar, i'm sure the Qutbi children could have thought about SOMETHING if it really meant something to them. He had infinite options.
But he chose not to come.

While the Dai's Janaza is being taken, he was writing letters, launching a website and posing for a video.
Priorities my friend, priorities.

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#63

Unread post by haqniwaat » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:31 am

If the Misaq shouldn't have been changed, why didn't KQ speak up? Wasn't it his responsiblity?
says Adam.

Who do you want him to speak to? The zaadas, who never replied to his letters nor responded to his invitation to a conversation? Adam, I understand why you still don't get it. The pomp and pageantry has blinded many and decades of mazoon bashing has created this disrespect, disregard, and downright hatred for mazoon. Repeating these reasons is not helping those who refuse to use their brains. It's happened before in history and we are living history at this time.
Good luck.

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#64

Unread post by Adam » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:53 am

haqniwaat wrote:
If the Misaq shouldn't have been changed, why didn't KQ speak up? Wasn't it his responsiblity?
says Adam.

Who do you want him to speak to? The zaadas, who never replied to his letters nor responded to his invitation to a conversation? Adam, I understand why you still don't get it. The pomp and pageantry has blinded many and decades of mazoon bashing has created this disrespect, disregard, and downright hatred for mazoon. Repeating these reasons is not helping those who refuse to use their brains. It's happened before in history and we are living history at this time.
Good luck.
He could have created his Website in 1432H when the Misaq was "changed". Why did he have to wait for 3 years and then inform people of this mistake?
Website would have been free for all.
The letter to the Shehzadas was only 6 months ago. Was he drafting it for 3 years and "happened" to complete it on the day of the wafaat of Syedna RA?


adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#65

Unread post by adna_mumin » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:35 pm

Adam wrote:
He could have created his Website in 1432H when the Misaq was "changed". Why did he have to wait for 3 years and then inform people of this mistake?
No he couldn't my friend. As has the stance been right from the beginning he was guarding a solemn promise of 50 years he gave to Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA.
Website would have been free for all.
The website is, still, free for all. What are we missing?
The letter to the Shehzadas was only 6 months ago. Was he drafting it for 3 years and "happened" to complete it on the day of the wafaat of Syedna RA?
The subject of the letter was a call to his Dawat - the Fatemi Dawat - Dawat ul Haq being the Dai appointed by his predecessor Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA so he could with all the hurmat of the janaza mubaraka do its tawalli. You are bordering on the absurd suggesting he would write that letter 3 years ago.

Also in a earlier response you had written,
Adam wrote:
@adna Mumin & haqniwaat
Misaq WAS changed by mufaddal bs. That's a fact.

There had been 52 Dai and 51 mansoos up until then. Why nothing warranted this change that had to be done only now? Why even Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA could have added the word mansoos for Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA, so much the easier as the same name for both Mazoon and Mansoos and he did NOT... WHY?

Please give me reference to Syedna Taher Saifuddin s Misaq.
The "additions" was from Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's instructions.
If the Misaq shouldn't have been changed, why didn't KQ speak up? Wasn't it his responsiblity?
If the Misaq coud not be changed, EVER, how was in translated from Arabic to Lisan Dawat? Why did Syedna Taher Saifuddin himself add the words "zere dast" in the Misaq? Why did he change it?
You can find all your Misaq related answers here:
http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/ ... e-meethaq/

I have verbally verified that the word "mansoos" was not present in the misaq that Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA took from my elders. As is widely known the text is never available for copy, least of all to a adna mumin. Are you refuting this point or are you not? Why beat around the bush and acknowledge a fact so discussion can be helpful?

Specifically on the below,
If the Misaq coud not be changed, EVER, how was in translated from Arabic to Lisan Dawat? Why did Syedna Taher Saifuddin himself add the words "zere dast" in the Misaq? Why did he change it?
So do you believe TRANSLATION = CHANGING? Do we have translations of Quran Majeed in various languages or do we have versions of it? Adding "zere dast" for maratib existing in misaq is most definitely not equal to adding a previously non-existing maratib (in the text) of Mansoos alaihe.

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#66

Unread post by kimanumanu » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:19 pm

Adam: So after answering the easy question, and referring to your argument that Mazoon could have raised the issue of nass earlier, what is your answer to the Zahir-Batin concept that was raised by Taizoon bhai over 10 years ago? Presumably you say lanat on him too? In case you want to refresh your memory, here is the link: http://web.archive.org/web/200303070235 ... batin.com/

Adam
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#67

Unread post by Adam » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:31 am

@Adna Mumin
No he couldn't my friend. As has the stance been right from the beginning he was guarding a solemn promise of 50 years he gave to Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA.

If he "kept his promise", why did he tell his sons and daughters about his Nass BEFORE Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's wafaat?
Did he break his promise?

About the Website.
If Dawat was being hijacked and wrong things were being done. He could have made the FatemiDawat website and posted all the info on it and exposed the truth.

Misaq.
1. Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin instructed the addition of the word Mansoos.
2. The Dai and the Mansoos are connected.
3. The Misaq isn't like the Quran, and can NEVER be touched. Every Dai has the authority to do as he wishes within the constraints of the Shariat. For example, the Misaq during Esa Nabi's time would have been MUCH different to what it was in Rasulullah's dawat. For example, the 7 pillars of Islam were applicable to Rasulullah's Dawat, not necessarily the same in Esa Nabi's time. So are you also suggesting that Rasulullah CHANGED the Misaq, and therefore, cannot be the Rasool?
Are you suggesting the Misaq is EXACTLY the same since Adam Nabi's time? It has ONLY been translated?
4. IN YOUR OPINION, let's say (for any Dai) there was already a Mansoos who wasn't the Mazoon or Mukasir (as has happened many times before), would the Mansoos be referred to in the Misaq or not? If yes, where? If no, Why? - isn't he the next Dai and of utmost importance?

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Iftitah of Thane Masjid

#68

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:11 am

Adam: In case you missed it, here is what Taizoon bhai wrote in an email in 1998: http://web.archive.org/web/200302111057 ... email.html - so what we see today was already predicted over 15 years ago. Did you know about it already too?

SBM
Posts: 6444
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Misaq

#69

Unread post by SBM » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:16 pm

Adam wrote:@Adna Mumin
Misaq.
1. Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin instructed the addition of the word Mansoos.
2. The Dai and the Mansoos are connected.
3. The Misaq isn't like the Quran, and can NEVER be touched. Every Dai has the authority to do as he wishes within the constraints of the Shariat. For example, the Misaq during Esa Nabi's time would have been MUCH different to what it was in Rasulullah's dawat. For example, the 7 pillars of Islam were applicable to Rasulullah's Dawat, not necessarily the same in Esa Nabi's time. So are you also suggesting that Rasulullah CHANGED the Misaq, and therefore, cannot be the Rasool?
Are you suggesting the Misaq is EXACTLY the same since Adam Nabi's time? It has ONLY been translated?
4. IN YOUR OPINION, let's say (for any Dai) there was already a Mansoos who wasn't the Mazoon or Mukasir (as has happened many times before), would the Mansoos be referred to in the Misaq or not? If yes, where? If no, Why? - isn't he the next Dai and of utmost importance?
Mujh Sey Phela Saa Misaaq mere Abde Naa Mang
Mein tau Samjha thaa tu hey mera Abde Ghulam
Mera Misaq hey tau Misaq ka Jhagda Kiya hei
Mere Deedar sei Aalam –e-Imaan mein Bahaar
Mere Deedar key siwa Duniya mein Rakha kiya hei
Shaikh pan jau meel jaaye tau Taqdeer sudhar jaaye
Yun naa thaa mein ney tau chaa thaa Salaam
Aur bhi Dukh hey Duniya mein Wajebaat key Siwa
Sirf Roti Banane mein Shikwa kiya hei
Ek Saadi sey Ghulami key Baad
Mere Mehal mei Soney Chandi key Siwa
Mere paas tumhey Diney key liye Rakha kiya Hei
Mujh sey phela saa Misaq mere Abde Naa Maang
(Faiz Ahmed Faiz sey Maafi key Saath)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaVI4U1Trtw