When was NASS really done....

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
rational_guy
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:21 am

Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#1

Unread post by rational_guy » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:50 am

Since it is documented that Aqa Mola Burhanuddin (RA) could not have spoken after a sever stroke in the London hospital, was Abdul Qadir bs lying in Saifee Masjid when he narrated the London incident with great detail. Is he responsible for giving the wrong aqeeda to mumineen?

Saeed al Khair
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#2

Unread post by Saeed al Khair » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:21 am

Planned Drama
Actor number one Dr. Moiz Nooruddin, Samdhee of Mufaddal Bhaisaheb
Actor number two Abdulqadir son of Dr. Moiz,Damadji of Mufaddal Saifuddin
Kunji of Daulat should remain in home, is the reason of this drama

Fakhruddinsuratwala
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:03 am

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#3

Unread post by Fakhruddinsuratwala » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:26 am

Saeed al Khair wrote:Planned Drama
Actor number one Dr. Moiz Nooruddin, Samdhee of Mufaddal Bhaisaheb
Actor number two Abdulqadir son of Dr. Moiz,Damadji of Mufaddal Saifuddin
Kunji of Daulat should remain in home, is the reason of this drama
whoever has spoken a lie in such a historical change would be liable to Allah and would have to answer for it. It is so sad to see this moments when our community which was a example to others has been a subject of mockery and debate by others.
A Sunni friend was singing a song aiming at me "Kyu bhay Chacha...are haan bhatija" :-)

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#4

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:42 am

Why is it difficult to question his credibility ! SMB never spoke fluently after that stroke ! if he recovered enough to speak fluently to proclaim nass, Thereafter his recovery shall be positive, with all the Duaas, Maatam-ni-majlis, Tulul-umr-namaaz, latest and advanced medical care available to his disposal. We have watched many A/V relays where SMB struggled and murmured. I remember one particular video, it was one of the Ashura event and at the peak of maqtal bayaan, SMS presented the mic to SMB to recite/orate shahadat of Imam-hussain, SMB struggled to speak, speech was not clear at all. Seeing the struggle of SMB people cried.

rational_guy
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:21 am

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#5

Unread post by rational_guy » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:07 am

Also on 5th of June 2011 Shehzada Qaid Johar bhaisaheb called a majlis in London reiterated the whole incident of the hospital. This was relayed all over the world.

Chapter 6 The cattle سورة الأنعام - Al-Anaam: Verse 24
انْظُرْ كَيْفَ كَذَبُوا عَلَىٰ أَنْفُسِهِمْ ۚ وَضَلَّ عَنْهُمْ مَا كَانُوا يَفْتَرُونَ
Behold! how they lie against their own souls! But the (lie) which they invented will leave them in the lurch. View more verses

rational_guy
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:21 am

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#6

Unread post by rational_guy » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:07 am

Also on 5th of June 2011 Shehzada Qaid Johar bhaisaheb called a majlis in London reiterated the whole incident of the hospital. This was relayed all over the world.

Chapter 6 The cattle سورة الأنعام - Al-Anaam: Verse 24
انْظُرْ كَيْفَ كَذَبُوا عَلَىٰ أَنْفُسِهِمْ ۚ وَضَلَّ عَنْهُمْ مَا كَانُوا يَفْتَرُونَ
Behold! how they lie against their own souls! But the (lie) which they invented will leave them in the lurch. View more verses

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#7

Unread post by true_bohra » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:48 am

Don't you think the lie could be from KQ side. After all he is saying that he was made dai without any witness.. This aayah of the Holy Qur'an can be applied to them as well...

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 802
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#8

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:25 am

@true_bohra
Then why they remove the london nass incident from the wikipedia immediately after this case took place.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#9

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:18 am

true_bohra wrote:Don't you think the lie could be from KQ side. After all he is saying that he was made dai without any witness.. This aayah of the Holy Qur'an can be applied to them as well...
Possibly True ! but SKQ is a position holder of Mazoon appointed by the “like infallible” 52nd Dai who bohra’s trust immensely ! so his credibility is far better than non - position holder Abdul Qadir Bhai Saab.

Just a question, what does Mansoos mean ?

When was SMS appointed as Mansoos ?

Did SMB appoint SMS has mansoon ? any reference please ?

Thanks

Hussain

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#10

Unread post by salaar » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:54 am

when personalities of the caliber of SKQ and SMS gets their horns locked where would the community go, i respect them both and iam disappointed with both of them, the way this drama is going on it is shattering our position but there is one consolation that after the mud settles down i think the attitudes of this top notch would also settle towards the common folks.

monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

I am not able to recall

#11

Unread post by monginis » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:15 am

Bismillah,

I ask some help with recalling any waez by SMB when he talked about MS or SKQ, any one heard him talking about any of these personalities ever?


specially about MS :?:

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: I am not able to recall

#12

Unread post by salaar » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:40 am

both were referred on more then one occasion but that reference was not related to the nass issue

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

When was NASS really done....

#13

Unread post by way2go » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:53 am

Questions on when was Nass really done.... Several Claims!
1. First one was done apparently in front of three (now deceased) witnesses by an entry in a private diary found mysteriously in a locked teak cupboard in Badri Mahal after wafaat of Syedna Burhanuddin. Entry done in Hijri year 1388 Gregorian year 1968
2. Syedna Burhanuddin coming in the dream of an insignificant gujarati hindu in 1996 from a god forsaken town and telling him about his second son. Late Syedna Burhanuddin couldn't find any worthwhile bohras that he had to come in a Hindu's dream!!!
3. Then the claim is that in Hijri1430 (Gregorian year 2009) he called MS and told him privately that he was to be his successor. MS cannot remember the date nor how many years ago was it from present year Hijri 1435.
4. The famous claimed London Nass in a London Hospital in Hijri1432 (Gregorian year 2011) where when MS was informed in Bonhom House a few blocks away from the hospital was most surprised on receiving the news. Also QJ revealing to Moiz bhaisaheb's son that he was also told privately by Late Syedna that MS will be the successor.
5. The video'd Raudat Tahera Nass where one cannot hear Late Syedna speak a word but Moiz bhaisaheb's voice is loud and clear.

So my one main question is......what should really be believed?????(if at all)

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

When was NASS really done....

#14

Unread post by way2go » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:55 am

Questions on when was Nass really done.... Several Claims!
1. First one was done apparently in front of three (now deceased) witnesses by an entry in a private diary found mysteriously in a locked teak cupboard in Badri Mahal after wafaat of Syedna Burhanuddin. Entry done in Hijri year 1388 Gregorian year 1968
2. Syedna Burhanuddin coming in the dream of an insignificant gujarati hindu in 1996 from a god forsaken town and telling him about his second son. Late Syedna Burhanuddin couldn't find any worthwhile bohras that he had to come in a Hindu's dream!!!
3. Then the claim is that in Hijri1430 (Gregorian year 2009) he called MS and told him privately that he was to be his successor. MS cannot remember the date nor how many years ago was it from present year Hijri 1435.
4. The famous claimed London Nass in a London Hospital in Hijri1432 (Gregorian year 2011) where when MS was informed in Bonhom House a few blocks away from the hospital was most surprised on receiving the news. Also QJ revealing to Moiz bhaisaheb's son that he was also told privately by Late Syedna that MS will be the successor.
5. The video'd Raudat Tahera Nass where one cannot hear Late Syedna speak a word but Moiz bhaisaheb's voice is loud and clear.

So my one main question is......what should really be believed?????(if at all)

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: I am not able to recall

#15

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:03 am

monginis wrote:Bismillah,

I ask some help with recalling any waez by SMB when he talked about MS or SKQ, any one heard him talking about any of these personalities ever?


specially about MS :?:
In the videos posted on FD site, Husain BS has mentioned something about KQ. You may wanna contact them to get an answer

abbasb
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:01 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#16

Unread post by abbasb » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:56 am

Believe in Allah (swt) and follow the revealed book. The Quran explicitly rejects any 'Rahbaniya' i.e. priesthood. 'Dai' is one who invites people to 'dawaah', the true Islam. Muffy n KQ fighting has absolutely nothing to do with 'dawaah' or Islam, so stay away from both and follow humbly and to the best of your ability what Quran asks us to follow. Isn't the Quran a guide enough for a true Muslim?

mohamedshah
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:40 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#17

Unread post by mohamedshah » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:41 am

I believe it was done in 1965 , when Syedna Mohamed Burhanuddin (RA) appointed Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin (TUS) to the same position he was before he became Dai, that is Mazoon and Sahib un Nass also known as Mansoos.

If Syedna Mohamed Burhanuddin had informed Shz Muffadal that the Nass was on him in 1430 AH why was he surprised, when his brother's and Dr Moiz came to inform him at Bonham house where he was recovering from an illness that NASS was done in the hospital on him?

Shz Qaid Johar also claims that he had been informed of the NASS on Shz Muffadal in 1968, and he had been doing Sajda to his brother since then, then if he knew his younger brother was Mansoos why was he praying ahead of him in prayers, sitting order in majlises according to ratib order? And say he was told to keep it Khangi (secret), so he had to do what he had to then why was he behaving like a direct competitor and not publicly refute when people were saying Nass will be done on Shz. Qaid Johar?

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#18

Unread post by true_bohra » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:00 pm

-Where did you shz qaid johar bs doin to sajdah to aali qadar maula Tus before nass
-how do you know that syedna mufaddal Tus was surprised when he was told about it.
-who were the people who making shz qaid johar bs as mansoos and directly approach him.

You guys ask for videos so now may I also demand the same

mohamedshah
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:40 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#19

Unread post by mohamedshah » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:54 pm

Why should I give give you the evidence? Who are You. Go and get it by asking Shz Qaid Johar yourself through your Amil.

trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: Was Abdul Qadir bs lying

#20

Unread post by trvoice » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:59 pm

true_bohra wrote:Don't you think the lie could be from KQ side. After all he is saying that he was made dai without any witness.. This aayah of the Holy Qur'an can be applied to them as well...
Lets say hypothetically both camps are lying. But here's the interesting part, MS camp is now trying every dirty tactics in book to cover up the lies with fake witnesses, edited videos, people swearing by quran in full masjid. Where as SKQ is not trying to cover up anything, infact he is trying to expose and bring out the truth.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#21

Unread post by true_bohra » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:18 pm

KQ is also waving the Holy Qur'an in air and swearing. Did you miss that. And he is not exposing, he is fabricating things according to his whims and fancies.

And which masjid did you see anyone swearing on Qur'an. As far as I know, I have seen Kq doing that.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#22

Unread post by true_bohra » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:21 pm

mohamedshah wrote:Why should I give give you the evidence? Who are You. Go and get it by asking Shz Qaid Johar yourself through your Amil.
Till now you all were demanding evidences for nass and now when we have asked for a simple video for your claims then you have changed colours.

Lets make it equal. Dont be biased.

Shz saheb never said something like, its you who is saying, so i will definitely demand it from you.

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: When was NASS really done....

#23

Unread post by way2go » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:31 pm

true_bohra wrote:-Where did you shz qaid johar bs doin to sajdah to aali qadar maula Tus before nass
-how do you know that syedna mufaddal Tus was surprised when he was told about it.
-who were the people who making shz qaid johar bs as mansoos and directly approach him.

You guys ask for videos so now may I also demand the same
t_b your answers to above questions are available in past posts on various forums by members. Kindly check out. Also, would appreciate if you could please answer my queries on when was Nass really done. Your answers may help to clear not just mine but many other members questions and queries. Thank you in advance for the trouble you'll take for this.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#24

Unread post by true_bohra » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:50 pm

I think that this question is also answered on this forum that when nass was done. Go through it and you will know.

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: When was NASS really done....

#25

Unread post by way2go » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:38 pm

true_bohra wrote:I think that this question is also answered on this forum that when nass was done. Go through it and you will know.

Kindly let me know under which heading is it answered because I am asking out of the five Nass episodes which is to be believed as to when it was done. Should I believe the secret diary found after wafaat of late Syedna one, or the hindu revelation of dream one, or the one done in 1430....exact date forgotten by MS, or the hospital one or finally the Raudat Tahera one where the only voice we hear is of Dr Moiz bhaisaheb.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#26

Unread post by true_bohra » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:57 pm

Do you still doubt the diary entry with syedna RA signature.

If you did not hear syedna RA conferring nass then visit www.believesyednaqutbuddin.com
It has the video of raudat tahera nass. The words of Maula are clear that mufaddal bhai ne nass nu taj pehnayu che

Go amd view it first

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: When was NASS really done....

#27

Unread post by way2go » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:09 pm

[quote="true_bohra"]Do you still doubt the diary entry with syedna RA signature.

If you did not hear syedna RA conferring nass then visit http://www.believesyednaqutbuddin.com
It has the video of raudat tahera nass. The words of Maula are clear that mufaddal bhai ne nass nu taj pehnayu che

Go amd view it first[/quot

t_b you are evading answering my question. Which Nass episode do I believe in?
BTW....I have viewed the ORIGINAL video of Raudat Tahera Nass episode countless number of times....nothing said by Muqaddas Syedna...
The entry in diary....BIG question mark on that one too.
Still....tell me which to believe.

Maqbool
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#28

Unread post by Maqbool » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:22 am

The prominent doctors have given their opinion on the basis of medical report from London hospital. An average human being can also understand that after so many days from the London episode SMS was not able to speak (There are many videos to prove). Therefore it will not be difficult to prove that the shazadas are lying. If this is proved, the sahzadas have cheated bohras by giving wrong information and should be liable for criminal charges for playing with the religious sentiments.

monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#29

Unread post by monginis » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:59 am

Maqbool wrote:The prominent doctors have given their opinion on the basis of medical report from London hospital. An average human being can also understand that after so many days from the London episode SMS was not able to speak (There are many videos to prove). Therefore it will not be difficult to prove that the shazadas are lying. If this is proved, the sahzadas have cheated bohras by giving wrong information and should be liable for criminal charges for playing with the religious sentiments.
and they should also be liable for all the money they have collected so far.

extract every single cents from kothar coffer ASAP.

Fatema MN
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: When was NASS really done....

#30

Unread post by Fatema MN » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:23 am

way2go wrote:Questions on when was Nass really done.... Several Claims!
1. First one was done apparently in front of three (now deceased) witnesses by an entry in a private diary found mysteriously in a locked teak cupboard in Badri Mahal after wafaat of Syedna Burhanuddin. Entry done in Hijri year 1388 Gregorian year 1968
2. Syedna Burhanuddin coming in the dream of an insignificant gujarati hindu in 1996 from a god forsaken town and telling him about his second son. Late Syedna Burhanuddin couldn't find any worthwhile bohras that he had to come in a Hindu's dream!!!
3. Then the claim is that in Hijri1430 (Gregorian year 2009) he called MS and told him privately that he was to be his successor. MS cannot remember the date nor how many years ago was it from present year Hijri 1435.
4. The famous claimed London Nass in a London Hospital in Hijri1432 (Gregorian year 2011) where when MS was informed in Bonhom House a few blocks away from the hospital was most surprised on receiving the news. Also QJ revealing to Moiz bhaisaheb's son that he was also told privately by Late Syedna that MS will be the successor.
5. The video'd Raudat Tahera Nass where one cannot hear Late Syedna speak a word but Moiz bhaisaheb's voice is loud and clear.

So my one main question is......what should really be believed?????(if at all)
Please add 2 more to your list...
6. Qaid Johar bs and Malek ul ashtar bs also claim that Burhanuddin Mola had called the 2 of them to his house in London in 1420H and had done nass on Mufaddal bs (Mufaddal bs was not present) and had asked them to keep it secret and reveal only when 'dupatto ohrawe'!
7) One of the son's (I don't recollect name, someone else may add) of one of the late witnesses mentioned in the diary entry also claims that Burhanuddin Mola had informed him of the alleged nass of 1388H and told him that he was informing him of this since his father was who was supposedly the original witness, was no more. This claim was made after the diary entry was made public.