A simple question for MS Camp & fans

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trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#1

Unread post by trvoice » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:14 pm

With the current legal proceedings going. Whether haq or not or SKQ is lying or what not. What I am talking about the what if situation.

If proven in court that there was no nass done in london, or public or anywhere else on SMS and everything was fabricated to control power. Will you switch sides ? Will you still stay with MS and support more lies ? Will you be able to live and die with the fact that your whole life was being played with along with your faith ?

PS: Be respectful to each other and just give your honest opinion.

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#2

Unread post by alam » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:54 pm

Bhai trvoice
These are frustrating times and patience is the key. I would humbly request that this question be tabled for now. Speculation of this kind results in responses that are unnecessary and somewhat irrelevant.

Let's say that the worst nightmare of SMS camp came true in court. The opposite side (Skq. And other Anti-sms group) needs to back off from "I told you so" posture, too allowing room, allowing space, for the reality to soak in, so people can weigh and consider the facts without distraction. Worthy opponents allow for face saving ways to win so that ipposite party can retreat with respect. Hmmm?

You certainly don't want people to get boxed in to their position, and therefore not weigh the facts as they unfold. By the way, asking what people will do (in the future) given certain scenarios has no validity - and is a bit preemptive of the process, and undermines the potential benefit if any is to come from the process.

As I suggested before on another thread I kindly ask all forum participants once again to refrain from :
1. Speculation - while being patient till the court process takes its course.
2. Counting your chickens before they are hatched.

seattle_mumena
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:51 pm

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#3

Unread post by seattle_mumena » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:48 pm

Why should we not indulge in "what if?" and wishful thinking. Why should we not speculate? Why not think of what will happen, what can happen and more importantly day dream of what should happen? By our thinking and speculating openly we can change events. Events do not happen in a microcosm but are the effects of thinking and speculation.

I for one refuse to not think and not speculate. Considering the immense power which the Dai has in our lives and psyche and his ability to influence the direction of the community for the positive as well as negative. The community cannot live without the guidance of the Dai and thus all efforts to replace or undermine him are doomed to failure in my opinion. Thus one has to accept this fact and try to create or hope for a time when a “Dai” with excellent attributes though rare in practice emerges. Only one such Dai is required as setting the direction for the good once is important as by the Dai’s appointments he has control over not only the present generation which he is guiding but has influence over unborn generations to follow.

I want to think of a time when we have a liberal, moral, ethical Dai who has a vision which takes the community to heights in Deen and Duniya which we can set our highest aspirations to. Where we can proudly point to ourselves as a model community who maybe does not know all the answers but is using rational thinking, democratic processes, learning from all our wise (not limited to Dai’s family), to continually question and evolve our practices to what is truly moral and socially just for each member of our community and the world at large.

In business where our community who is a Business community regains the lost glory of our ancestors who were the "Sethiyas" of their ages. Where we are innovating, starting high-tech ventures uplifting by education our people instead of continuing doing the same old businesses such as hardware, paints, small time trading which our ancestors did. What our forefathers did was innovative for their time, now we need to make our own path rather than looking at these traditions of old as our model. Our ancestors will be proud that we had a vision, ploughed our path forward and reaped the rewards, rather than looked back at outdated business methodologies. Instead of arguing over whether one can take insurance or not, whether we can use banks or not, let us break these shibboleths and be full-fledged members of the economic elite being major engines for economic growth. Also respecting other professions such as teachers, electricians, engineers doctors and in understanding that we want to have an all-round community of intellectuals, professionals and business folks, nay where even manual laborer is respected.

In Bohra history, where the knowledge is freely available, the books are open, the scholars both our own and others have full access to our literature and books and thus can bring enlightenment to all. Where true research and discussion does not need to hide behind “Taveel”, “Baatin”, “Haqiqat”, but a person who strives, is interested can get this knowledge. This is not restricted to the Dais alone but is open to everyone. By gathering this knowledge we want to be informed about what our ancestors did historically and use that knowledge to build our own moral code.

In gender equality where we put our members of both sexes who are truly learned and achieved greatness as true role models for our youngsters both men and women. Who our impressionable can learn from and set their sights to rarefied realms of achievement. Instead of saying that our girls children should be happy with doing “home science” or making rotis or sewing topis, how about we put as role models women who are physicians, scientists, engineers, writers who are doing their life calling without sacrificing Islamic principles of modesty.

In charity where we truly understand what it means to empathize with the needs and sufferings of our fellow community members. How about instead of doing these wasteful ziafats, building mausoleums of marble decorated with gold and rubies to our dead ancestors instead we build hospitals where free health care is available to our community? How about we build schools where the children of our poorest are able to get basic free education and are able to provide scholarships and sufficient funds to our brightest to pursue their dreams in the institutions of higher learning like Harvard, Stanford, Oxford, Cambridge etc.

In true equality where every Bohra men and women is treated respectfully, with love and not have the current situation where a single family has the sole authority to decide what is right or wrong, what we should eat or drink each day, what we should wear, how long our beards should be and disgustingly decide what types of toilets we should use.

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#4

Unread post by way2go » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:06 pm

seattle_mumena wrote:Why should we not indulge in "what if?" and wishful thinking. Why should we not speculate? Why not think of what will happen, what can happen and more importantly day dream of what should happen? By our thinking and speculating openly we can change events. Events do not happen in a microcosm but are the effects of thinking and speculation.

I for one refuse to not think and not speculate. Considering the immense power which the Dai has in our lives and psyche and his ability to influence the direction of the community for the positive as well as negative. The community cannot live without the guidance of the Dai and thus all efforts to replace or undermine him are doomed to failure in my opinion. Thus one has to accept this fact and try to create or hope for a time when a “Dai” with excellent attributes though rare in practice emerges. Only one such Dai is required as setting the direction for the good once is important as by the Dai’s appointments he has control over not only the present generation which he is guiding but has influence over unborn generations to follow.

I want to think of a time when we have a liberal, moral, ethical Dai who has a vision which takes the community to heights in Deen and Duniya which we can set our highest aspirations to. Where we can proudly point to ourselves as a model community who maybe does not know all the answers but is using rational thinking, democratic processes, learning from all our wise (not limited to Dai’s family), to continually question and evolve our practices to what is truly moral and socially just for each member of our community and the world at large.

In business where our community who is a Business community regains the lost glory of our ancestors who were the "Sethiyas" of their ages. Where we are innovating, starting high-tech ventures uplifting by education our people instead of continuing doing the same old businesses such as hardware, paints, small time trading which our ancestors did. What our forefathers did was innovative for their time, now we need to make our own path rather than looking at these traditions of old as our model. Our ancestors will be proud that we had a vision, ploughed our path forward and reaped the rewards, rather than looked back at outdated business methodologies. Instead of arguing over whether one can take insurance or not, whether we can use banks or not, let us break these shibboleths and be full-fledged members of the economic elite being major engines for economic growth. Also respecting other professions such as teachers, electricians, engineers doctors and in understanding that we want to have an all-round community of intellectuals, professionals and business folks, nay where even manual laborer is respected.

In Bohra history, where the knowledge is freely available, the books are open, the scholars both our own and others have full access to our literature and books and thus can bring enlightenment to all. Where true research and discussion does not need to hide behind “Taveel”, “Baatin”, “Haqiqat”, but a person who strives, is interested can get this knowledge. This is not restricted to the Dais alone but is open to everyone. By gathering this knowledge we want to be informed about what our ancestors did historically and use that knowledge to build our own moral code.

In gender equality where we put our members of both sexes who are truly learned and achieved greatness as true role models for our youngsters both men and women. Who our impressionable can learn from and set their sights to rarefied realms of achievement. Instead of saying that our girls children should be happy with doing “home science” or making rotis or sewing topis, how about we put as role models women who are physicians, scientists, engineers, writers who are doing their life calling without sacrificing Islamic principles of modesty.

In charity where we truly understand what it means to empathize with the needs and sufferings of our fellow community members. How about instead of doing these wasteful ziafats, building mausoleums of marble decorated with gold and rubies to our dead ancestors instead we build hospitals where free health care is available to our community? How about we build schools where the children of our poorest are able to get basic free education and are able to provide scholarships and sufficient funds to our brightest to pursue their dreams in the institutions of higher learning like Harvard, Stanford, Oxford, Cambridge etc.
In true equality where every Bohra men and women is treated respectfully, with love and not have the current situation where a single family has the sole authority to decide what is right or wrong, what we should eat or drink each day, what we should wear, how long our beards should be and disgustingly decide what types of toilets we should use.
SUPERB!!!

trvoice
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#5

Unread post by trvoice » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:15 pm

I am absolutely here not asking to speculate. But personally I am more of a contingency/backup plan kind of person. There is nothing to speculate here, its either black or white, day or night. There is no grey area here, moreover I would dare say what @seattle_mumena said is what wishful thinking is. Never anyone can expect this from current regime as its becoming more and more corrupt and greedy by the day.
I can go on and on, but would like to keep it to the point. This can of worms has to be opened, and I would prefer to be prepared for it. Instead of shutting down my thinking and "decide not to think" it shows how closed and boxed in most bohras are.

voice
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#6

Unread post by voice » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:11 am

seattle_mumena wrote:Why should we not indulge in "what if?" and wishful thinking. Why should we not speculate? Why not think of what will happen, what can happen and more importantly day dream of what should happen? By our thinking and speculating openly we can change events. Events do not happen in a microcosm but are the effects of thinking and speculation.

I for one refuse to not think and not speculate. Considering the immense power which the Dai has in our lives and psyche and his ability to influence the direction of the community for the positive as well as negative. The community cannot live without the guidance of the Dai and thus all efforts to replace or undermine him are doomed to failure in my opinion. Thus one has to accept this fact and try to create or hope for a time when a “Dai” with excellent attributes though rare in practice emerges. Only one such Dai is required as setting the direction for the good once is important as by the Dai’s appointments he has control over not only the present generation which he is guiding but has influence over unborn generations to follow.

I want to think of a time when we have a liberal, moral, ethical Dai who has a vision which takes the community to heights in Deen and Duniya which we can set our highest aspirations to. Where we can proudly point to ourselves as a model community who maybe does not know all the answers but is using rational thinking, democratic processes, learning from all our wise (not limited to Dai’s family), to continually question and evolve our practices to what is truly moral and socially just for each member of our community and the world at large.

In business where our community who is a Business community regains the lost glory of our ancestors who were the "Sethiyas" of their ages. Where we are innovating, starting high-tech ventures uplifting by education our people instead of continuing doing the same old businesses such as hardware, paints, small time trading which our ancestors did. What our forefathers did was innovative for their time, now we need to make our own path rather than looking at these traditions of old as our model. Our ancestors will be proud that we had a vision, ploughed our path forward and reaped the rewards, rather than looked back at outdated business methodologies. Instead of arguing over whether one can take insurance or not, whether we can use banks or not, let us break these shibboleths and be full-fledged members of the economic elite being major engines for economic growth. Also respecting other professions such as teachers, electricians, engineers doctors and in understanding that we want to have an all-round community of intellectuals, professionals and business folks, nay where even manual laborer is respected.

In Bohra history, where the knowledge is freely available, the books are open, the scholars both our own and others have full access to our literature and books and thus can bring enlightenment to all. Where true research and discussion does not need to hide behind “Taveel”, “Baatin”, “Haqiqat”, but a person who strives, is interested can get this knowledge. This is not restricted to the Dais alone but is open to everyone. By gathering this knowledge we want to be informed about what our ancestors did historically and use that knowledge to build our own moral code.

In gender equality where we put our members of both sexes who are truly learned and achieved greatness as true role models for our youngsters both men and women. Who our impressionable can learn from and set their sights to rarefied realms of achievement. Instead of saying that our girls children should be happy with doing “home science” or making rotis or sewing topis, how about we put as role models women who are physicians, scientists, engineers, writers who are doing their life calling without sacrificing Islamic principles of modesty.

In charity where we truly understand what it means to empathize with the needs and sufferings of our fellow community members. How about instead of doing these wasteful ziafats, building mausoleums of marble decorated with gold and rubies to our dead ancestors instead we build hospitals where free health care is available to our community? How about we build schools where the children of our poorest are able to get basic free education and are able to provide scholarships and sufficient funds to our brightest to pursue their dreams in the institutions of higher learning like Harvard, Stanford, Oxford, Cambridge etc.

In true equality where every Bohra men and women is treated respectfully, with love and not have the current situation where a single family has the sole authority to decide what is right or wrong, what we should eat or drink each day, what we should wear, how long our beards should be and disgustingly decide what types of toilets we should use.
To add,
I want to think of a Dai who takes dawat as a mission of calling mankind towards path of Allah, who serves as an Ameer of community with real intention of service for the sake of Allah, who is not money minded, away from the materialistic world, who is away from arrogance, self praise etc, who is simple with sound character of a true Muslim, who is away from innovations (biddat), who never wants that people should offer sajda to him even in gesture of respect, who is always engaged in amr bil ma`aroof (ordaining good) and nahi anil munker (forbidding evil), who differentiate between Tawheed and shirk practices, who is against the corruption going on at dargahs / mazars / Qabr etc, who never indulges in sectarianism but helps in uniting different sects of Islam through the rope of Allah i.e; Quran, who knows the middle path and possess intellect to walk on it with his followers, who is away from any sort of extremism, who knows the meaning of "Al-Deenu yusrun" (Deen is easy) and how to make it easiest for everyone to adopt it in daily life and who put all his efforts to attain all the qualities of Taqwa and the real success of Muttaqeen in himself and his followers. That is the ideal Dai, Ameer and the community.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#7

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:41 am

The outcome if SKQ wins the case is quite chaotic. There is no way SMS will accept defeat. The abdes will follow sms what ever it takes.

the first case will be to decide around the nass, thereafter there will be cases to claim property and funds

this will take years and years

Can you imagine the chaos if sms or skq may they forgive my scenario passes away there will be a 54th vs a 53rd

if skq looses and appeals or does not what will happen he will not just packup

this is the beginning of the end of the community;s spirituality

the case will expose the community rituals and over time this will eat away he community reputation

what we can surely say the Kasre ali arrogance and power will be trimmed

the next ramazan wajebat collection will be interesting

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#8

Unread post by Smart » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:17 am

Let us learn from history of our community. More than half a century ago, there have been cases on the dai. The most spectacular being the "Chandabhai Galla Case". What happened? The then dai lost the case, but declared fateh mubeen, He put up another galla outside and asked abdes to fill that. Later, the importance of the dargah was deliberately and consciously reduced. Later with the death of the 51st, Raudat Tahera was created and all focus was diverted there. The present generation of abdes don't even know Chandbhai Seth and his dargah. The major factor was and still is the illiteracy and gullibility of the large majority of abdes.

In spite of winning the case, the trustees, lost out in the long term. This is how the games happen.

History will repeat. It really does not matter what happens in the court. If they win, it is Fateh Mubeen, if they lose, the courts were bought off and "who is the court to decide the faith?", sort of questions will be asked.

Mark my words, nothing will change. The only harbingers of change is the common abde and his behaviour. Looking at the way they are being looted, with ghilaf and Saheb-e-daawat schemes, I don't have any hopes. More of the same!

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#9

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:05 am

SMB’s era had progressive youth bohra come into existence …..

SMS’era ( technically it is SMB's ) has Kutbi Bohra come into existence …..

With SMS leadership, the way it is going, we will see a typical hindu caste system kind hierarchy in the community, where commoners will be the “shudra” “Harijans”and “dalits” of the community while SMS and his royal baggage (family members) will be the feudal lords aka “Brahmins” & “kshatriyas”

53000 nariyals will become a ritual on all “urus” in matter of time !
Stone statue of SMB or SMS may come up, probably of gold silver and gemstones !
Salaam and tasleem may be replaced by Namaste !
Salgirah may become a carnival event to boast-off political might !
Muharram may become a 10 day leisure/hunting/tafree/ trip !
Ramadan may become a high peak season for revenue collection !
Sheikhs and Mullahs titles may become an investment options !

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#10

Unread post by true_bohra » Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:00 pm

Can you pls enlighten what will happen if KQ becomes the leader?? Which way the community will head???

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#11

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:20 am

Atleast on paper .. they sound good !
Guiding Principles
Some Specifics of Vision & Philosophy
• Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin is the 53rd Dai al Mutlaq of Imam uz Zaman with full authority.
• Misaq is a pledge of allegiance and obedience to the Imam and his Dai and to the laws of Shari‘at, by which one attains najaat and salvation. It is done by one’s free will for his or her najaat.
• The scale for religion is taqwa (goodness) and Ilm (knowledge), not money. Honors are achieved through khidmat of dawat and mumineen, through kindness, compassion and goodness.
• Access to the Dai is available for all mumineen, and is not exclusive for only a select few.
• Islam is a religion of Rehmat, kindness, compassion and mercy. Coercion and extortion of any kind are NOT tolerated.
• Vajebaat: Compulsory Zakat is 2.5% of money saved through the year; in other words, 2.5% of that portion of annual income which remains unspent at the end of the year. Mumineen should araz silat, najwa, khumus, nazrul maqam, kaffaarat as per their capacity.
• Najwa: Mumineen araz Najwa when they come to the Dai, as per our doctrine, but it is done as per their wish and capacity.
• Jamaat Operations: Operating under guidance and authority from the Dai, all jamaats have a fully empowered local administration, a Jamaat Committee, comprised of men and women in separate committees from the local community. Details of jamaat organization will be posted soon inshaallah.
• An annual budget will be created by the Jamaat Committee. Jamaat finances will be transparent and audited regularly. The Jamaat Committee will present accounts and budgets to their local mumineen.
• Jamaat Committee should encourage and seek active participation from mumineen.
• A central commission will investigate all complaints.
• No one has immunity: every person in the Dai’s administration is accountable to the Dai, and needs to explain his/her actions when questioned. There will be no discrimination.
• There will be no segregation. Safai Chitthis will not be color coded red, yellow and green. It is for Allah subhanahu and his wali the Imam and Dai to judge the virtues of each mumin.
• There will be no persecution of people under any circumstances. It is Mola Ali’sSA hidayat to conceal another mumin’s faults. Publicly exposing a mumin’s faults is not acceptable.
• Raza for darees, majlis, vajebaat, or similar issues, will not be withheld on the basis of other cited shortcomings. It is for the Allah Subhanahu to judge and forgive. Mumineen will not be stopped from doing their farizats or supplementary hasanats.
• Raza for dafan must not be denied. Special consideration should be made for those who cannot afford basic dues. Representatives must deal with these situations with sensitivity and compassion.
• People are encouraged to attend Dawat majalis. But there will be no scanning of identity cards or reporting of attendance at majlises and other jamaat events.
• Business: While keeping within Shariat rules at all times, mumineen are encouraged to pursue a dynamic business outlook. Riba is Haram. In present day economy there are many ways to conduct business within the conformity of shari’at laws. Any guidance required in this matter will be provided by contacting Fatemi-Dawat office.

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#12

Unread post by HMALAK » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:55 am

seattle_mumena wrote:Why should we not indulge in "what if?" and wishful thinking. Why should we not speculate? Why not think of what will happen, what can happen and more importantly day dream of what should happen? By our thinking and speculating openly we can change events. Events do not happen in a microcosm but are the effects of thinking and speculation.

I for one refuse to not think and not speculate. Considering the immense power which the Dai has in our lives and psyche and his ability to influence the direction of the community for the positive as well as negative. The community cannot live without the guidance of the Dai and thus all efforts to replace or undermine him are doomed to failure in my opinion. Thus one has to accept this fact and try to create or hope for a time when a “Dai” with excellent attributes though rare in practice emerges. Only one such Dai is required as setting the direction for the good once is important as by the Dai’s appointments he has control over not only the present generation which he is guiding but has influence over unborn generations to follow.

I want to think of a time when we have a liberal, moral, ethical Dai who has a vision which takes the community to heights in Deen and Duniya which we can set our highest aspirations to. Where we can proudly point to ourselves as a model community who maybe does not know all the answers but is using rational thinking, democratic processes, learning from all our wise (not limited to Dai’s family), to continually question and evolve our practices to what is truly moral and socially just for each member of our community and the world at large.

In business where our community who is a Business community regains the lost glory of our ancestors who were the "Sethiyas" of their ages. Where we are innovating, starting high-tech ventures uplifting by education our people instead of continuing doing the same old businesses such as hardware, paints, small time trading which our ancestors did. What our forefathers did was innovative for their time, now we need to make our own path rather than looking at these traditions of old as our model. Our ancestors will be proud that we had a vision, ploughed our path forward and reaped the rewards, rather than looked back at outdated business methodologies. Instead of arguing over whether one can take insurance or not, whether we can use banks or not, let us break these shibboleths and be full-fledged members of the economic elite being major engines for economic growth. Also respecting other professions such as teachers, electricians, engineers doctors and in understanding that we want to have an all-round community of intellectuals, professionals and business folks, nay where even manual laborer is respected.

In Bohra history, where the knowledge is freely available, the books are open, the scholars both our own and others have full access to our literature and books and thus can bring enlightenment to all. Where true research and discussion does not need to hide behind “Taveel”, “Baatin”, “Haqiqat”, but a person who strives, is interested can get this knowledge. This is not restricted to the Dais alone but is open to everyone. By gathering this knowledge we want to be informed about what our ancestors did historically and use that knowledge to build our own moral code.

In gender equality where we put our members of both sexes who are truly learned and achieved greatness as true role models for our youngsters both men and women. Who our impressionable can learn from and set their sights to rarefied realms of achievement. Instead of saying that our girls children should be happy with doing “home science” or making rotis or sewing topis, how about we put as role models women who are physicians, scientists, engineers, writers who are doing their life calling without sacrificing Islamic principles of modesty.

In charity where we truly understand what it means to empathize with the needs and sufferings of our fellow community members. How about instead of doing these wasteful ziafats, building mausoleums of marble decorated with gold and rubies to our dead ancestors instead we build hospitals where free health care is available to our community? How about we build schools where the children of our poorest are able to get basic free education and are able to provide scholarships and sufficient funds to our brightest to pursue their dreams in the institutions of higher learning like Harvard, Stanford, Oxford, Cambridge etc.

In true equality where every Bohra men and women is treated respectfully, with love and not have the current situation where a single family has the sole authority to decide what is right or wrong, what we should eat or drink each day, what we should wear, how long our beards should be and disgustingly decide what types of toilets we should use.
Sorry for the Slang Used.... But hard to Live.....
My God I was thinking all this shit only for last 27 minutes. Hell! Ya, i agree with you. This all 'what','why','when','where','whom','how' etc.. Imp. Questions to be raised on some activity which would check wrong doings and create balance between things - whole logical thinking process is......explanation. You should not use your brains in matter of religion, just close your eyes (blindly follow), and go with flow(doesn't matter right or wrong) or else, ur 'anjaam' would be same as 'Iblees' who had gone against 'ALLAH'. What a sense use your brains, and you would be compared or put in doomed league or shaitans incarnation. Since 3weeks i feel ashamed of following such a set of systems. What was meant and what ought to be is put aside and we have to follow nowadays what 'this shitty' people thinks. What Khuda said, what Rasul said, what Ali said, is less imp than 'what they think/feel'?? Our ancestors were very intelligent they had put on a very brilliant path for us to follow,which we are gone far away from. We should check histories of Islam not of 'these' people that will lead us to divinity , almighty. Our system of religion was put into practice for eradicating Hevaniyat from peoples lives, not for system replacing Hevaniyat.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#13

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:34 am

Hmalak !

Yo dude !! Sure thing !! Lets start with getting rid of the ****ing slangs !! 

SBM
Posts: 6507
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#14

Unread post by SBM » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:20 am

Hmalak
Please mind your language and innuendos. May I request you or Admin to edit the post please.

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#15

Unread post by HMALAK » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:36 am

humanbeing wrote:Hmalak !

Yo dude !! Sure thing !! Lets start with getting rid of the ****ing slangs !! 
I have already apologized for the same in the First Line. And Also given the reason for the same... Rest All I would never Regret because the same is done in the Entire World where the DBs stay...

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#16

Unread post by HMALAK » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:39 am

SBM wrote:Hmalak
Please mind your language and innuendos. May I request you or Admin to edit the post please.
Dear SBM,
I have apologized for using slangs into my Post, yet I have not abused any person there. I have abused the system and so there is no Personal comment on anybody. Other than that, if you feel bad, I apologize once again. But buddy its a High time.

adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#17

Unread post by adna_mumin » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:27 am

Just had this random thought. Hypothetically let us say the former Mazoon ud dawat of Syedna Burhanuddin RA had come with the exact same claim at the exact same time... only change being that the Dai appointed was someone else, say X but not he himself.

What then? Would the people accusing and abusing him would still believe SMS over the word of Mazoon, the trusted commander of Syedna Burhanuddin ra? What credibility would SMS have in that case?
Would the clearly suspicious London lie not become clear as water then?
Or would abdication and assumption of administrative powers just enough for the people who simply REFUSE to think?

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#18

Unread post by Bohra spring » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:21 pm

HMALAK wrote:
SBM wrote:Hmalak
Please mind your language and innuendos. May I request you or Admin to edit the post please.
Dear SBM,
I have apologized for using slangs into my Post, yet I have not abused any person there. I have abused the system and so there is no Personal comment on anybody. Other than that, if you feel bad, I apologize once again. But buddy its a High time.
Hm withdraw your comment voluntarily if you are sincere.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#19

Unread post by Bohra spring » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:27 pm

adna_mumin wrote:Just had this random thought. Hypothetically let us say the former Mazoon ud dawat of Syedna Burhanuddin RA had come with the exact same claim at the exact same time... only change being that the Dai appointed was someone else, say X but not he himself.

What then? Would the people accusing and abusing him would still believe SMS over the word of Mazoon, the trusted commander of Syedna Burhanuddin ra? What credibility would SMS have in that case?
Would the clearly suspicious London lie not become clear as water then?
Or would abdication and assumption of administrative powers just enough for the people who simply REFUSE to think?
I doubt SMB is not an accomplice in the mess. He could not replace SKQ because of STS desire or will, wanted one of his son to inherit . Abdes are so naive that this is not inheritance battles of STS empire. SKQ is STS's son.

SMS is the lucky that out of so many brothers he was chosen. The brothers os SMS also know if SKQ gets it they are out as they will be the evil cousins .

SKQ is playing politics by not attacking SMB for the Diai position integrity. Attacking the position attacks his position as the 53rd.

If you relate it to chess..abdes are pawns in the game!

SMS has to find a way to prove SMB has not questioned STS wishes, did not keep a lame duck of a Mazoon that was overlooked and he was the most eligible son and scholar to be the 53rd.

The victor will be who cleverly digs out of the mess without distorting abdes belief system.

Now the question anyone but the son of a Diai STS to be the latest has any chance to throw their hat in the ring would be impossible. Zero chance and no funds..it is again politics without financial might what chance unless it's an external organisation with power and resources

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: A simple question for MS Camp & fans

#20

Unread post by MMH » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:51 am

Bohra spring wrote:
adna_mumin wrote:Just had this random thought. Hypothetically let us say the former Mazoon ud dawat of Syedna Burhanuddin RA had come with the exact same claim at the exact same time... only change being that the Dai appointed was someone else, say X but not he himself.

What then? Would the people accusing and abusing him would still believe SMS over the word of Mazoon, the trusted commander of Syedna Burhanuddin ra? What credibility would SMS have in that case?
Would the clearly suspicious London lie not become clear as water then?
Or would abdication and assumption of administrative powers just enough for the people who simply REFUSE to think?
I doubt SMB is not an accomplice in the mess. He could not replace SKQ because of STS desire or will, wanted one of his son to inherit . Abdes are so naive that this is not inheritance battles of STS empire. SKQ is STS's son.

SMS is the lucky that out of so many brothers he was chosen. The brothers os SMS also know if SKQ gets it they are out as they will be the evil cousins .

SKQ is playing politics by not attacking SMB for the Diai position integrity. Attacking the position attacks his position as the 53rd.

If you relate it to chess..abdes are pawns in the game!

SMS has to find a way to prove SMB has not questioned STS wishes, did not keep a lame duck of a Mazoon that was overlooked and he was the most eligible son and scholar to be the 53rd.



Now the question anyone but the son of a Diai STS to be the latest has any chance to throw their hat in the ring would be impossible. Zero chance and no funds..it is again politics without financial might what chance unless it's an external organisation with power and resources
I dont think its correct to assume that Burhanudding Moula was a part of this scheme to appoint SMS as the 53rd Dai. Had that been the case, it would have happened before he fell sick. There are several comments in different threads which indicate that we have never heard Burhanuddin Moula openly declare SMS as his mansoos.

Once agin, check SKQ's pictures with Burhanuddin Moula, there is no sign of conflict but utter reverence for him. Bohra Spring, its great to speculate but not with so many assumptions. None of Burhanuddin Moula's actions indicate that he had appointed SMS as his successor when we look back in retrospect.

ABout the he victor being able to cleverly digs out of the mess without distorting abdes belief system- please be prepared for a lot of dirty linen being washed in public which will definitely distort our belief system. SO its best to prepare ourselves mentally and stick with the person who has more credibility- reputationally and academically. Any guesses for who that is- SKQ of course!

Also Bohra spring, its a real turn off when you call people 'lame duck'. You might not believe in that person and may not have respect for him but you need to maintain a decorum. Please stick to the names or even their initials!