An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

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S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#1

Unread post by S. Insaf » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:20 pm

Earnest request to intervene in the dispute between two claimants
An open letter To
Former Hon. Justice Ahmadi Saheb
By Jainuddin Vali - Godhara

To, Hon. former Chief Justice of India,
Aziz Mushabber Ahmadi Saheb
It is reliably learnt that you are one of the important persons in the list of supporters of Mazoon-e-Dawat, Sayedi Khuzema Qutbuddin Saheb. It is most heartening that you as an eminent jurist and scholar is trying to resolve the crisis spreading in our Dawoodi Bohra Community.
Respected Sir, personally I think instead of resolving the issue legally, it would have been much better if you had intervened between the two disputing claimants and compelled them to establish their claim.
Before I list the agenda of this letter let me introduce myself to your honour.
I am a resident of Godhara and since last so many years I have been struggling for the reform in our community. Right now I am 82 years old.
As I recollect, around the year 1963 late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin used the weapon of excommunication "Baraat" which resulted in many Bohras suffering economically, socially and mentally. The houses and business establishments of reformist Bohras were looted and burnt down. They were violently and physically attacked. The murderous attacks were instigated on eminent scholars of Jamia Saifia, Surat. Men and women of Udaipur were mercilessly beaten and molested in the presence of late Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb, at Galiakot in 1973. In Udaipur itself 150 divorces were took place, resulting in separation of their innocent siblings who were deprived of love and affection of their parents. Today the expellers' policy has boomeranged on them and their children are suffering the same fate. During 51st and 52nd Dais' reign the reformist Bohras have suffered countless lose of lives and property. The long list of these atrocities is available in the Justice Nathwani Inquiry commission. Now the question that arises is - What was the necessity for Bohra priesthood to meet out such barbarous atrocities? What was the fault of reformist Bohras? When these atrocities were been perpetrated on the reformists by Bohra clergy did Khuzema Qutbuddin Saheb take any step to prevent these atrocities? Will the reformists be ever compensated for the loss that they have suffered? Will the next Dai seek an apology for the misdeeds of past two Dais?
I now come to the main purpose of addressing this letter. In my personal opinion legal remedy for settling the issue of "Nass" may create confusion in the community so lets keep this issue aside. Let us all support a leader or head of community who would agrees to implement the following agenda, so that in future there is no dispute regarding the power of the Dai and the community is not financially exploited for the benefit of the Bohra clergy.;
1) The position of Dai will remain that of trustee of the Dawat administration. The use of term Dai-ul-Mutlaque should be abolished.
2) The concept of "SoleTrustee" should also be abolished.
3) Dai and his administration will not interfere in the matters of marriage and burial.
4) There should not be any restriction on bank transactions of Mumineen.
5) The local Jamat committees will appoint Amils and they will pay Amil's salary.
6) The charitable and non-charitable donations will be collected by the local Jamat and its accounts will be audited annually and will be made public.
7) The excommunication (Baraat) should be totally abolished.
8) There will not be any restriction of dress-code; however Bohra ladies should dress modestly in conformity with Islamic tradition.
9) The renovation of Masjids and mausoleums should be curtailed and the fund should be used for establishing schools, colleges and hospitals for the welfare of society at large.
10) It will be the responsibility of Jamats to ensure a reasonably decent standard of living of Dai.
11) Raza should be left to the discretion of the local jamats.
12) Till the dispute of Nass is resolved and finally a Dai is installed collection of all religious and non-religious taxes should be stopped forthwith.
If you are in agreement to act on these lines then please call a meeting of leading Bohras and let us proceed further.

Waiting for the response and valuable comments of Your Honour,
Yours sincerely,
Jainuddin Vali 09978787101

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#2

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:01 pm

No mediation outside the court will work. KQ had asked for a discussion but the position on the side of MS is that there can be no discussion on the question of Nass. These guys are not even commenting on the court proceedings to the media.

KQ was forces to go legal and wasn't his first choice

true_bohra
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#3

Unread post by true_bohra » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:38 pm

Why would there be a compromise in terms of nass. Nass is done on a right person by Burhanuddin Maula himself. It is testified by his own signature.

If the other side wants to go to court then its his choice. For mumineen, Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS is the present dai al mutlaq

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#4

Unread post by JC » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:04 pm

MS will never compromise because of his 'claim' ........ KQ may come to terms in the larger interests of the community (and may be for himself).

It is NOW the time to 'reform' the office of the Dai. There should be a new beginning from 53rd and starting point should be reform and public apology on the atrocities committed by last two dais.

Let this Community be a Community and stop converting it into a cult.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#5

Unread post by JC » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:05 pm

true_bohra wrote:Why would there be a compromise in terms of nass. Nass is done on a right person by Burhanuddin Maula himself. It is testified by his own signature.

If the other side wants to go to court then its his choice. For mumineen, Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS is the present dai al mutlaq
Till yesterday KQ and his family and hundreds of his followers were also 'mumineen' ........... it is A MUMIN who was second to 52nd Dai is 'objecting' on MS being truthful Dai ............

adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#6

Unread post by adna_mumin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:14 pm

true_bohra wrote:Why would there be a compromise in terms of nass. Nass is done on a right person by Burhanuddin Maula himself. It is testified by his own signature.
Bhai true_bohra-

If Dai's signature and letter could be forged 400 years ago by Suleman LA, how can one be sure? Matter of Life and Death, Haq and Baatil after all?

And why not use the science available today? Why not present it for verification? Perhaps that is inevitable if push comes to shove...
After all this is the community that prides itself to be modern and advanced with time?

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#7

Unread post by JC » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:53 pm

Adna Mumin,

How can you be so sure if Suleman 'forged' signature?? after all it was 400 years back .... is it that he could be right?? Could it be that Dai in India wanted the throne?? As you put it after all it is matter of Nass, issue of Haq and Batil .......... do not brush aside anything, use your brains.

And if you do not agree with someone or with someone's actions there is no need to shower him/her with Lanat Allah (LA as you noted). This is so cheap of abdes that they keep on saying God's Lanat to everybody who simply disagrees with them.

adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#8

Unread post by adna_mumin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:35 pm

JC wrote:Adna Mumin,

How can you be so sure if Suleman 'forged' signature?? after all it was 400 years back .... is it that he could be right?? Could it be that Dai in India wanted the throne?? As you put it after all it is matter of Nass, issue of Haq and Batil .......... do not brush aside anything, use your brains.
JC - Suffice it to say that Syedna Dawood bin Qutub Shah RA was the Mazoon mutlaq of his predecessor Dail mutlaq. So his word has to take precedence over another claimant. The claimant accepted Syedna Dawood RA as Dai for a period and then brought forth the letter and even took to court. The court ruled after hearing in favor of the "Dawoodi" bohras that we are today!

By God, there is a pattern there... isnt it!
And if you do not agree with someone or with someone's actions there is no need to shower him/her with Lanat Allah (LA as you noted). This is so cheap of abdes that they keep on saying God's Lanat to everybody who simply disagrees with them.
I know this question has been discussed over and over. A false claimant is not 'merely disagreeing' but attempting to do what Shaitan does and is rightly cursed one. There is nothing cheap about faith.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#9

Unread post by think » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:38 pm

don't say burhanuddin moula; say syedna or dai burhanuddin. he is not a moula. First read the meaning of the word moula before you call him such. It is an insult to the real moula Ali to call a dai moula.

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#10

Unread post by way2go » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:24 pm

adna_mumin wrote:
true_bohra wrote:Why would there be a compromise in terms of nass. Nass is done on a right person by Burhanuddin Maula himself. It is testified by his own signature.
Bhai true_bohra-

If Dai's signature and letter could be forged 400 years ago by Suleman LA, how can one be sure? Matter of Life and Death, Haq and Baatil after all?

And why not use the science available today? Why not present it for verification? Perhaps that is inevitable if push comes to shove...
After all this is the community that prides itself to be modern and advanced with time?
The signed letter needs to be evaluated by forensic experts. In today's day and age one can do a lot with the advances of computer technology. If the letter is really genuine then MS camp should themselves get it proved so and produce it in the court of law but normally it's the guilty party who do not take the initiative cause they within themselves know that they are WRONG!

Saeed al Khair
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#11

Unread post by Saeed al Khair » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:30 pm

Please provide some details of the Dawoodi Bohra Legal Consultants, Judges and expert of the Law worldwide

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#12

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:31 pm

JC wrote:MS will never compromise because of his 'claim' ........ KQ may come to terms in the larger interests of the community (and may be for himself).

It is NOW the time to 'reform' the office of the Dai. There should be a new beginning from 53rd and starting point should be reform and public apology on the atrocities committed by last two dais.

Let this Community be a Community and stop converting it into a cult.
There can be no compromise either way. MS & KQ won't regardless of the Nass.
If we take that KQ is the rightful person, he will site examples going all the way to Ali saying he kept quiet but didn't compromise.

This whole thing is complicated and is in a mess.

Going by the conduct of MS so far, expect no reform or respite and in fact expect worse than before.

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#13

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:35 pm

way2go wrote:
adna_mumin wrote: Bhai true_bohra-

If Dai's signature and letter could be forged 400 years ago by Suleman LA, how can one be sure? Matter of Life and Death, Haq and Baatil after all?

And why not use the science available today? Why not present it for verification? Perhaps that is inevitable if push comes to shove...
After all this is the community that prides itself to be modern and advanced with time?
The signed letter needs to be evaluated by forensic experts. In today's day and age one can do a lot with the advances of computer technology. If the letter is really genuine then MS camp should themselves get it proved so and produce it in the court of law but normally it's the guilty party who do not take the initiative cause they within themselves know that they are WRONG!
Lol who can trust any report presented by MS?

Evidence has to be submitted to the court and its for the court to get them examined under their custody.

monginis
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#14

Unread post by monginis » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:50 am

I will prefer SKQ over muffy on any day, but again this all fight infact this all dawat no safino is all about MONEY and POWER.

even if I join SKQ I will never ever hand over single cent to him, if he wants to feed his family he must produce his own money by halaal means.

and this is advice to all, no matter whom you chose make sure never give single rupee/dollar to any spiritual leaders.

ALLAH dont need your money he needs your love and affection toward his creation.

donate money by your own way, give charity/zakaat to needy by your self, you dont need to rely on any one to do this job.

Maqbool
Posts: 848
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: An open letter To Justice Ahmadi

#15

Unread post by Maqbool » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:03 am

Muffaddal BS is arrogant and so his hard core followers like TB. He will never compromise, but there is at least a hope that fair thinking mumenins has waken up and starts questioning. I am optimistic that there is hope for revolution in our community.

I am surprised why the hard cores are silent on the atrocities committed by the SMB saheb in the name of barat. They must apologies.

In the appeal letter by a zainuddinbhai I do not understand why there has to be a rule for ladies for dress? They are quite competent to decide about their dress and who will decide it, is as per Islam or not? A committee of Gents!