Forcing Bohras to keep beard (dari)

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Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Dari (Beard)

#1

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:27 am

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Bukhari 7:780
Narrated Nafi

Ibn Umar said: The Prophet said, "Do the opposite of what the pagans do. Keep the beards and cut the moustaches short." Whenever Ibn 'Umar performed the Hajj or 'Umra, he used to hold his beard with his hand and cut whatever moustaches. Ibn Umar used to cut his moustache so short that the whiteness of his skin (above the upper lip) was visible, and he used to cut (the hair) between his moustaches and his beard.

Bukhari 7:781
Narrated Ibn Umar

Allah's Apostle said, "Cut the moustaches short and leave the beard (as it is)."

Sunan of Abu-Dawood Hadith No.23
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin

The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Ten are the acts according to fitrah (nature):

clipping the moustache, letting the beard grow, using the tooth-stick, cutting the nails,washing the finger joints, plucking the hair under the arm-pits, shaving the pubes, and cleansing one's private parts (after easing or urinating) with water. The narrator said: I have forgotten the tenth, but it may have been rinsing the mouth.

Al-Muwatta Hadith No.51.1
The Sunna on Hair

Yahya related to me from Malik from Abu Bakr ibn Nafi from his father Nafi from Abdullah ibn Umar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered the moustache to be trimmed and the beard to be left.

Fiqh-Us-Sunnah 1.21
Letting one's beard grow and become thick

This is a feature of dignity. It should not be cut so short that it appears like a shaved beard, nor should it be left so long that it
becomes untidy. It is also a sign of manhood. Says al-Bukhari, "Whenever Ibn 'Umar made the
hajj or 'umrah, he would hold his beard in his fist and, whatever exceeded his fist, he would cut off."

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simon
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Dari (Beard)

#2

Unread post by simon » Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:10 pm

Again it is a bidah of Umar. Prophet (PBUH) said leave the beard as it is and here goes Umar in catching the beard by the fist and trimming what is below it.

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Dari (Beard)

#3

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:46 pm

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Its Abdulla Ibn Umar not Khalifa Umar RA.

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makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Dhari (Beard)

#4

Unread post by makberi » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:04 pm

Recently the syedna commended a young guy in a rasme saifee function for his beard....."Dhari hoi to ave hoi".....were his exact words....but being a external feature does it really reflect anythin abt the person.....Keeping a beard was a part of the Prophet's Sunnah ...but the idea behind it was that men lead a simple life n dont get into fashion n the likes....but in todays world where keepin a beard is in fashion...n in case of bohras the beard is tool used to gauge one's religiousness.....does keeping a beard serve its purpose....

mumin
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Dhari (Beard)

#5

Unread post by mumin » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:46 pm

Keeping a beard definitly does not judge a character of a person. You may have heard the saying "Daree me Tinka". Besides reading some of the Torah The Book of Ibrahim Nabi and many others it is believed that the angels in heaven are "Javan i.e. young and handsome and are clean shaven. They do not have any free flowing beards. Many Bohris I have seen do not keep beards and the Kothar should not force you to keep one. It is against all norms of freedom. Even Quomi libas is a hyped up situation, just another way to control you. If we go by the sunnat of the rasool then we should all be wearing the Arab dress which was worn by the Rasool at that time. Moreover the Kothar turns and twists history to get to their own agenda of controlling you and digging into your pockets undre some excuse or another. The business of sabeel is never in the Quran, yet they quote the Quran which states spend in Allah's way and quote that it is wajib. The sabeel is collected so that the mullahs chamchas can have frequent dareeses at the markaz to feed the mulla. In this day and age with the soring gas prices very few would attend the darees held so frequently. Even on other occasions they will try to manipulate in their conniving ways to ask some one to do "jaman" saying that there will be lot of sawab. Do not fall for this. Their ulteriopr motive is to get free food and save the sabeel money for the lavish expenses of the mulla which is car, free lodging and boarding, free cell phone, free medical etc.

Hozefa
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:01 am

Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#6

Unread post by Hozefa » Mon May 05, 2008 9:08 pm

Salaam Alaykum,

Is beard is neccessary to kept for muslims.
or it is just to gain sawab sunnat?

If any someone (muslim) remove / trim it so then it is a sinful or not??

Hozefa
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#7

Unread post by Hozefa » Mon May 05, 2008 9:13 pm

Please be corrected....

Salaam Alaykum,

Is beard is neccessary to kept for muslims.
or it is just to gain sawab of sunnat?

Why we are forced to keep it compulsory and asked not to trim or to shave??

If anyone (muslim) remove / trim it so then it will be a sinful act or not??


Regardzz

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#8

Unread post by Danish » Mon May 05, 2008 11:03 pm

Enforcing to keep beard is an innovation. Just because people of any religious demonination in ancient times did not have the swift technology to shave, does not mean it became a "law". Quran does not mention anything about beard but certain corrupted ahadees do. Mind you, ahadees are not the words of Muhammad, but Bukhara & Co. who deliberated Islam as we vision it today.

pardesi
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#9

Unread post by pardesi » Tue May 06, 2008 12:21 am

Danish,

You are right but don't tell this to the two mullahs here. They will come looking for you ;) , shave your head and make a beard out of it and make you wear it. I sometimes wonder if they sport a bear themselves :confused:

Check out this article in Dawn, Pakistani daily.

http://www.dawn.com/2008/05/05/local4.htm

anajmi
Posts: 13403
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Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#10

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 06, 2008 1:30 am

Bohras do not follow hadith by Bukhari and still are forced to keep beards. This demonstrates that keeping a beard is a part of the bohra traditions as well. As far as Ismailis are concerned, they have a clean shaven hazar Imam, can you expect anything better from his followers? And as far as Danish is concerned, his views about the prophet, Islam, quran and Allah are well known. I don't think anything that he has to say, as his own personal opinion, holds any weight, except perhaps for the Ismailis who are probably on the border of being muslims (on the other side, I might add).

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 06, 2008 1:32 am

Hozafa,

Growing a beard is a sunnah of the prophet. It is not a fard. If you do not like a face which looks similar to that of the prophet, you are welcome to shave off your beard. His so called descendents have!!

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#12

Unread post by makberi » Tue May 06, 2008 3:49 am

anajmi,
y shud one want to look like the Prophet....shudnt the focus be to replicate his akhlak.......

pardesi
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#13

Unread post by pardesi » Tue May 06, 2008 5:09 am

"If you do not like a face which looks similar to that of the prophet, you are welcome to shave off your beard."

You must be overdosing yourself with some paraphernalia!
Is that why one must keep beard in Islam? To have a face similar to that of the Prophet? If growing beard makes you look like the Prophet then my friend some people has brought nothing but disgrace to the blessed face of the Prophet!

pardesi
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#14

Unread post by pardesi » Tue May 06, 2008 5:24 am

"If you do not like a face which looks similar to that of the prophet, you are welcome to shave off your beard."

The last part of the above quote is contrary to the ruling of all four madhaibs as well as most of your Ulemas. The four Imams have declared it "haraam" to shave the beard. So how can you say that "It is not a fard....you are welcome to shave off your beard." I am sure you do follow one of them four Imams!

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#15

Unread post by JC » Tue May 06, 2008 12:36 pm

I tend to agree with Danish.

Beard or no beard - what difference does it make??!! Why to push for it. Some people look good with beard and some without - thats it.

People should not be judged by their appearances but by their deeds.

Burhan and Osama both have beard..!!! are they any good. they are disgrace to Islam. Aga Khan is clean shaven, that doesnot necessarily make him bad.

Bro Danish,

I am still waiting for your comments on Homosexuality and Islam.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#16

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 06, 2008 12:42 pm

pardesi,

Unlike the Ismailis, I am not bound to any Imam.
some people has brought nothing but disgrace to the blessed face of the Prophet!
Huh!! So the rest should shave now?

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#17

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 06, 2008 1:14 pm

makberi,
y shud one want to look like the Prophet....shudnt the focus be to replicate his akhlak.......
I am assuming that you are clean shaven. There are a thousand excuses that I can come up with to shave off my beard. The prophet himself has asked his followers to grow their beards. So growing a beard would be replicating his akhlak or respecting the word of the prophet, pick one.

JC,

Islam isn't about following Burhan or Osama or Aga Khan. It is about following the prophet. Do not make people like Burhan, Osama and Aga Khan your yardsticks to measure your religion. None of these three are homosexuals either, (unless you know more about them than I do) but that doesn't prevent you from having those tendencies does it?

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#18

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 06, 2008 1:17 pm

JC,
People should not be judged by their appearances but by their deeds.
That is correct. Growing a beard is a deed. Homosexuality is a deed.

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#19

Unread post by makberi » Tue May 06, 2008 2:09 pm

anajmi,
replicating the Prophet's akhlak is visiting the sick, helping the poor and needy, humility, fighting against injustice etc....

wat the Prophet has said and done is well documented.....he has also given directions as to how one shud brush his/her teeth....take ur pick of wat sort of akhlak wud bring u closer to Allah

PS: i have a beard, but not becuz the Prophet has asked me to keep one

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#20

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue May 06, 2008 3:11 pm

at the risk of sounding repetitive,

deen mein dadhi hai, daadhi mein deen nahi...

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#21

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue May 06, 2008 3:45 pm

Pardesi

Why are you wasting your time here.
You need to say follwing

YAA RABAL AABE GARDA BAHAK SHAE MARDA , BAHAK SHAE MARDA YAA RABAL AABE GARDA
.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#22

Unread post by JC » Tue May 06, 2008 3:54 pm

Thank you Anajmi.

Burhan, Osama or Aga Khan are not my yardsticks. I just quoted them in reference to beard or no beard, its relevance to appearance and deeds.

Agreed, prophet may have beard and may have asked men to grow - but as someone has pointed out, he has asked for so many more. There is a long list of Akhlaks. Which ones (ie Sunnah) you follow is upto you - which ones you feel will take you more closer to Allah, if there is one.

You may call homosexuality a deed, its ok with me. What I believe that is that if it is b/w two consenting adults bringing no harm in whatever way to anyone else, it is private and personal affair of those two. Allah, if any, may judge them on that act. To me it is neither sin nor disease.

Al-Zulfikar - you have very rightly quoted the phrase. For many a folks, Deen is in everything except Deeds...!!!!

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#23

Unread post by Danish » Tue May 06, 2008 4:35 pm

Originally posted by anajmi:
Growing a beard is a deed. Homosexuality is a deed.
I would slightly disagree here. While sodomy is a deed, bearding is a natural growth. The subtleties of both can be defined and discussed by choice, circumstance and necessity, though both are world apart by comparison.
Originally posted by JC:
I am still waiting for your comments on Homosexuality and Islam.
My bad, JC. It's a lengthy subject and would be a good idea to present views on Sodomy as a new topic under the section "Islam" or "Here and Now". Thanks for reminding. ;)

pardesi
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#24

Unread post by pardesi » Tue May 06, 2008 4:48 pm

MF,

I am not interested in personal jabbing here on this forum. I would like to stick with the subject. If you insist you could go to a different forum and try to take out your frustrations on me there. Not here,please! Lets stay with the business of growing beard on this thread.

pardesi
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#25

Unread post by pardesi » Tue May 06, 2008 5:07 pm

There is a hadith where the Prophet responded to inquiry from muslims about growing beard wherein he said the muslims should grow beard in opposit way than Jews. Like Jews used to color their beard black and he asked muslims to use hena? or paint it red, etc. Also he said the same thing about the length like if the Jews grow very long beard then the muslims should have a shorter beard or vice versa, I am not sure which. To me it seems that he was trying to differentiate muslims from jews by just looking at the beard.

Would that be considered a fashion statement, sort of? Just so that muslims would be more easily recognised in the crowd.

Could someone dig up that hadith? I am not very organized about having hadiths and ayahs of Quran handy like most others.

Al-Zulfiqar, you are absolutely right. Islam is far beyond growing beard. In my opinion there is nothing Islamic about growing beard. Prophet used to have it, Jews, Christians, Sikhs, all grow beard religiously. What's so Islamic about it other than the Prophet personally preferred it.

Its just a matter of personal belief and no one should be forced to keep it or otherwise.

By the way I too fashion a beard!

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 06, 2008 5:21 pm

makberi,

I too have a beard, but only because the prophet has asked me to.

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#27

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 06, 2008 5:31 pm

deen mein dadhi hai, daadhi mein deen nahi
I will not argue against that. Some people grow a beard because they want to make a fashion statement. Some grow a beard because it is a sunnah of the prophet. Question was - Is beard necessary in Islam? Answer is (in the form of a question) - is following the sunnah of the prophet necessary in Islam?

No one can be forced to follow Islam and hence no one can be forced to follow the sunnah of the prophet. The only people who force others to keep a beard are the kotharis and extremists. Just because someone has forced someone to do a thing, doesn't make that thing invalid.

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#28

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 06, 2008 5:39 pm

Danish,
While sodomy is a deed, bearding is a natural growth.
Let me rephrase - Shaving your beard is a deed. Homosexuality is a deed.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#29

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue May 06, 2008 6:01 pm

correct me if i am wrong, but as i see it a lot of sunnahs are basically founded upon common sense and prevailing circumstances at the time or even sometimes on circumstances which could occur in the future.

let us examine the issue of gays in relation to beards. among gays, you have 2 types; a dominant male and a submissive male. (we formerly referred to them as pansies) the arabs refer to them as khaneets. i will not elaborate as u must have understood. from anthroplogical studies, a dominant gay male tends to overly emphasise his manhood or macho characteristics. there are certain hidden signals from submissive males which tend to trigger off the attraction quotient in a dominant male. primary among them is a lack of facial hair, and sometimes even bodily hair which is consciously removed. an effort is made by the submissive to deliberately and subtly, or not so subtly in some societies, to feminize his overall appearance and body language.

among the arabs, it has always been a well-known historical fact that they have tended to be bi-sexual. and it was common practice for prominent arabs, tribal leaders and wealthy individuals to have a large harem of wives, mistresses and siraj-al-baits - an euphemistic term meaning the 'lamp of the house', for boys adopted or even married for this purpose. perhaps even now in the remote mountainous areas of oman, yemen and saudi, these customs may prevail.

knowing this predilection of the savages of arabia, it was prescribed that keeping beards would to a great extent help mitigate this tendency. it has nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with a man not straying from the true path of serving himself, his family and his god. in an indirect way this adherence to his manhood meant an acute realisation of his responsibilities as a man and pride in himself, thus a link to his spirituality.

the instructions about the exact method of keeping this beard to distinguish muslims from jews came later. most jews of the time combined their sideburns with their moustaches and a small beard, but only kept hair above their jaw lines. in order to visually separate the muslims from the shrewd and cunning jews who often infiltrated the muslims secretly, as they spoke fluent arabic and wore the same desert garb, the prophet decreed that muslims keep their cheeks and chin shaven and grow beards below the jawline. the present syedna's beard is a good example.

i hope that answers the questions of those who wanted to know. my father always emphasised the simple dictum of "niyyat" in understanding whatever we do or whatever islam stands for or asks us to do. the prophet was a very simple, very practical man whose every action was dictated by common-sense, love and affection. he had very good reasons to tell his people of the time to act upon certain things we call sunnah. once u understand the niyyat behind it, you will know what direction to take or not to take based upon your own intellect.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Is beard is neccessary in Islam?

#30

Unread post by Danish » Tue May 06, 2008 6:20 pm

Originally posted by anajmi:
Danish,

While sodomy is a deed, bearding is a natural growth.
Let me rephrase - Shaving your beard is a deed. Homosexuality is a deed.
Yep, you got that straightened out. ;)