Forcing Bohras to keep beard (dari)

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genesis
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:16 am

Re: SINCE WHEN DID THE BEARD BECOME COMPULSORY

#121

Unread post by genesis » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:43 am

London wala wrote :- Genesis
Going back to your original question, my memory tells me that the emphasis on beards began around 1979. It was at this time that Syedna issued his “irshadaat” and this was stressed to all bohras worldwide. I think there were seven points. As well as beards the irshadaat emphasised that women must wear ridas and bohras must stay clear of interest. I do not remember all the points, but I think they also included speaking dawat ni zaban and wearing saya-kurta.
You ask why this took place. I heard that Syedna had become very sad when he learnt that even his own children were involved in interest. They all asked for his forgiveness and subsequently the irshadaat was issued worldwide.


To re-iterate the explanation given to me by a rationalist sheikh, he said that there was a sudden exigency created at that time by the expulsion of the ahmaddiya sect from Islam and the subsequent banning of their entry into Mecca. Hence a complete image makeover was mobilised to present an orthodox Muslim appearance and ward off any threat of getting into the receiving end of the axe next. The dress code, appearance, etc which was hitherto liberal and not so important was suddenly revamped and a strict uniformity enforced. The other points mentioned by br.london were also launched which were from thereon followed with some new firmaan or the other to complete the picture of shariat-abiding true muslims. We dont know how far this explanation given by him is right.



Deerseye
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:30 am

#122

Unread post by Deerseye » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:45 am

i remember reading in the nahjul balagha, that when rasulullah was initially propagating Islam, the Jews came secretly to listen to his discourses. Later they made fun of the prophet, hence the prophet advised his people to sport beards. This would enable them to distinguish the yahuds and nasaras. So how is the beard relevant today when Islam has been established?



incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

#123

Unread post by incredible » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:50 am

beard was always there in every religion(pope dont keep beard thats a different story) but any ways....

rasullullah(s) had asked to keep beard and trim mustach so that they can look different to jews.



Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

#124

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:11 pm

Prophets and other religious sages introduce certain outwardly visible things to identify our people VS other people. At one time may be the beard was needed, however Rasulullah SA introducing beard to identify muslims from jews makes no sense because jews had longer beards than muslims in those days,i.e., I have never seen a painting of Jesus Christ clean shaven as he was originally a jew. As time goes by the need and reasons for the outwardly visible signs also goes away but the hollowness of the symbolism stays and stays. Like at one time the Sikhs needed the turban and the 5 K(s) to identify Sikhs VS Aurangzeb's Army, but they still follow it strictly even though it is not needed.

Even in Islam's shariat the beard is a Sunnat and not a Faraz for the majority of muslims in the world, Only among the DBS the Ilah ul Ard has made it Faraz to gauge the degree of loyalty of DBs to himself, they don't call it faraz and call it Sunnat moakida (meaning sunnat of takeed) , In showing this fierce loyalty some DBS look almost like vehshi and can give little kids nightmares, they are not told or taught the grooming ettiquetes, and now the Mansoos wants them open and hanging loose and not tied up at any time.



bohrabhai
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

#125

Unread post by bohrabhai » Thu May 08, 2014 2:34 pm

have you encountered this dari form?
these goondas had come to my place with this form and forced me to keep dari.
http://www.burhaniguardsinternational.c ... /bgi-1.pdf
bgi-1.pdf
(96.71 KiB) Downloaded 161 times
scene from khuda ke liye explains about importance of dari
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3s_2GuCDMI



Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

#126

Unread post by Rebel » Thu May 08, 2014 2:55 pm

This is madness. As far as I understand beard is not compulsory in Islam. Beard is not faraz but is considered good to keep as it is sunnat of Prophet. How in this cult it has it become a faraz? Why they force us to keep long beard against our wishes. Even when people keep beard mullahs object to trimming. These mullahs do not want us to progress in society and remain backward so they can control us. Where is this being distributed?



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

#127

Unread post by Hasan » Thu May 08, 2014 3:48 pm

Good muslims are know by there great manners not by there great beards



bohrabai
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 1:15 am

#128

Unread post by bohrabai » Thu May 08, 2014 4:12 pm

Keeping beard is farz not sunnah, even in Sunnis of all maslaks it is farz , just go and ask any sunni alim and a trimmed person is not even allowed to lead prayers.
But here the intention is "khushi" of Mola which is a wrong intention hence I doubt any sawaab from such beard gear for the abdes.



Hasan
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 pm

#129

Unread post by Hasan » Thu May 08, 2014 4:19 pm

BEARD ; Any must in Islam should be mentioned in Quran as a must & Quran does not say anything about beard growing . Also , it is not a Sunnah & the so called 'hadith " about beard must is a fake hadith just as the myriad of many fake hadiths that mar the Islamic religion , Note all the Kuffar & disbelievers & enemies of prophet (pbuh)had long beards . Also Jewish Rabbis & Christian priests & Seikh religious people have long beards & even some criminals & murderers & homosexuals have beards , Prophet Muhammad had a beard because this was the normal look & there were no shaving razors at his time thus beard shaving was a heck of trouble &facial injuries using knives or daggers . Prophet Muhammad had no car & rode a camel & lived in tent not in concrete house & wore a galabeya no jackets or pants ,used no shower or tapped water or modern life tools but rather primitive tools & wore the clothes relevant to his time , These are the tools & habits & clothes of his time & not Sunnah . Islamic Sunnah is about ethics , worship & good treatment to others & not a beard . On the dooms day ALLAH will judge us as per our acts (good & bad )& will not decide our fate to hell or heaven based on our beard length .



jungle999
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:26 am

#130

Unread post by jungle999 » Thu May 08, 2014 5:37 pm

From islamhelpline ; Growing a beard was considered normal and natural for a man at the time of the Messenger of Allah (saws), whether he was a believer or not. Even the enemies of Islam like Abu Jahl and Abu Lahb had beards! And because every man naturally grew a beard, it was not necessary for the Prophet (saws) to give an explicit command exhorting the believers to grow a beard.



The only specific saying of the Prophet (saws) regarding the keeping of beards arose when he saw that the pagans used to grow both their beards and their mustaches long; thus he (saws) said to the believers:

Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah (saws) said: "Differ from the polytheists: let your beards (grow), and trim your moustache."

Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.



It was only a couple of centuries ago, when the western culture and ideology became dominant over the world and muslim lands, that it became a fashion to be clean shaven. And as with any dominant culture, people are always ready to adopt its actions, whether they are of virtue, or of vice! But Islam has its own culture, and growing a beard is part of the Islamic culture.



The question is why should a believer, who professes to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and who professes to follow the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (saws), want to grow a beard?

The answer is simple. Today, you might have seen many youngsters copy the fashion of sport-stars, Hollywood-stars or anybody else whom they love. If you notice today, many hot Hollywood stars and sport stars are sporting a "goatie" beard! And true to fashion, you see a lot of people around today who keep "goatie" beards!!! As Muslims, our role model should always be the Prophet (saws). We love to copy everything he did ... he had a beard, and if indeed, we want to follow the Messenger of Allah (saws), we should strive to grow a beard.



Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzab verse 21:

There is indeed the best example for you in the Messenger of Allah, for every such person that looks forward to Allah and the Last Day, and remember Allah much.



In another narration, the Prophet of Allah said in narrating a prophecy of times to come:

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 9.651 Narrated by Abu Said Al Khudri

The Prophet (saws) said: “There will emerge from the East some people who will recite the Quran, but it will not exceed their throats, and who will go out of the deen of Islam as an arrow passes through the game. They will never come back to it unless the arrow comes back to the middle of the bow by itself (i.e. impossible!). The companions asked, "What will their signs be?". The Prophet (saws) said: "Their sign will be the habit of shaving off of their beards".



Thus the keeping of beards is an absolutely encouraged and preferred Sunnah of the Prophet (saws) and every muslim male must strive to keep a beard, if his model and example is indeed the Prophet of Allah (saws). He will get his due reward from Allah, Insha Allah, if he keeps the beard to follow the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (saws).



But if a believer does not want to sport a beard for whatever reason, the other believers should not make an issue out of it. What is important in Islam and in the Sight of Allah, is that one truly believes and does good righteous deeds according to the guidance of the Quran and the Sunnah. And when that happens, it is expected that the beard will follow soon after!



The beard is nothing more than a sign that the believer truly wants to follow a Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (saws). There are many people who have long beards, but do deeds against the commands of Allah and His Messenger (saws). And there are many people who are amongst the best believers, but do not have beards! Allah will not decide the recipient of His Mercy and His Forgiveness from the appearance of the individual; but rather He will decide whether the person believed and did righteous good deeds as commanded by Allah and His Messenger (saws).


















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AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

#131

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Fri May 09, 2014 4:07 am

Everything in our religion is for the Khushi of someone else. That Khushi is read as orders to be enforced. When will my own Khushi, will and wish matter?

When it all became too unbearable, I said goodbye!!

But my mom never stops asking me to keep a beard.



Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

#132

Unread post by Rebel » Fri May 09, 2014 7:14 pm

You may not to want to say goodbye, however, you may want to bring change in the system. Ask them what about my Khushi? Only you can make yourself happy and no one else can. So create an impact with like minded people. I am sure you are not alone wherever you are, there must be people with whom you interact and who agree with your thinking and together with these people you can bring sense to the system. It has a very uphill task but I am sure where there's a will there is a way out.



Nietzsche
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:14 pm

#133

Unread post by Nietzsche » Fri May 09, 2014 9:08 pm

KQ's website, fatemidawat.com, has a new update that includes a scholarly work about Ali written by KQ's daughter. If you want unbiased information on the key Islamic figures, this is probably a good place to start; it has been edited by other experts, so despite the fact that Qutbuddin is a (corrupt, money loving, etc etc) bohra, her information has to be fairly unbiased as it is an academic work. It is also well written in fairly simple English, so everyone should be able to glean some insight from the chapter.



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

#134

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sat May 10, 2014 1:07 am

Rebel wrote:You may not to want to say goodbye, however, you may want to bring change in the system. Ask them what about my Khushi? Only you can make yourself happy and no one else can. So create an impact with like minded people. I am sure you are not alone wherever you are, there must be people with whom you interact and who agree with your thinking and together with these people you can bring sense to the system. It has a very uphill task but I am sure where there's a will there is a way out.
I hate all forms of religion. Its nothing but a tool to divide people. Waste of time and energy.



chakker
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:51 am

#135

Unread post by chakker » Sat May 10, 2014 4:20 am

AgnosticIndia wrote:
"I hate all forms of religion. Its nothing but a tool to divide people. Waste of time and energy."

So why are you here???



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

#136

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sat May 10, 2014 5:35 am

chakker wrote:AgnosticIndia wrote:
"I hate all forms of religion. Its nothing but a tool to divide people. Waste of time and energy."

So why are you here???
Coz I can't run away from my history or the society I am in.
Religion is a personal matter. I keep to it. But I remain a Societal or Cultural Bohra. My folks are staunch believers. I separate the religious from cultural.



Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

#137

Unread post by Rebel » Sun May 11, 2014 11:24 pm

It seems a very difficult to reply to someone who hates religion. Hmmm...I feel that we have been misguided and have been conditioned to hate others who are not bohras. I have often heard that we are the cleanest and the most closest to Allah and our Syedna will take us to paradise. The rest will burn in hell. Religion has created a divide here instead of bonding with the fellow humans.
Religion connects us to the Allah or our creator so we should not hate religion. Religion in many ways makes us good human beings. Equality, justice, compassion, tolerance are all aspects of a good religion. However, the division of the ummah have created hatred among all Muslims and we fight with each other and other religions and races which I feel should not be the case.
History confirms that in Prophets time Muslims, Jews and Christians lived together in each peace with each other so we should be able to tolerate others and live together in harmony. I have a friend who wanted to marry a non bohri girl but she refused to marry him because she said bohras were not Muslims and since she refused to marry him. This incident broke his heart as he loved her. He never married and is still single. I still feel his pain in my heart - religion divided two hearts instead of uniting.



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

#138

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Mon May 12, 2014 7:26 am

We don't need religion to be good humans. And we are seeing what religion does to people. I only see hatred amongst people because of religion.

Self imbibed morals, ethics, kind heartedness does not require religion.

Punishment based on violation of ethics,morals because of religion and laws proposed by it is not done. Laws that can't change or no one dares to question or change from its 7th century standard.

Even on this forum I see hatred for Hindus,Jews amongst Bohras the supposedly enlightened lot including the PDBs



silvertongue
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:34 am

#139

Unread post by silvertongue » Mon May 12, 2014 8:12 am

Everyone has different opinions on what religion plays into their lives. For you it might be a weapon of divide and rule. I think Islam as a religion is a true guidance on how a human should live life in such a way that he/she enjoys the fruits of life and at the same time be beneficial to society as well. Whats wrong in that. Now some freak headed westernized drunkard people find it weird enough so its their problem. All religion asks is just love and obedience and to become a good human being thats all no matter what religion do u belong. All teach the same thing. Its just that we fit it according to our needs. thats all.



Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

#140

Unread post by Rebel » Mon May 12, 2014 8:52 am

AgnosticIndian wrote:We don't need religion to be good humans. And we are seeing what religion does to people. I only see hatred amongst people because of religion.

Self imbibed morals, ethics, kind heartedness does not require religion.

Punishment based on violation of ethics,morals because of religion and laws proposed by it is not done. Laws that can't change or no one dares to question or change from its 7th century standard.

Even on this forum I see hatred for Hindus,Jews amongst Bohras the supposedly enlightened lot including the PDBs
I agree, religion perhaps is not necessary to be a good human being. I have met individuals who hardly follow religion or who are atheists and yet they are essentially good people: they are truthful, honest, straight forward people. Religion may not divide people but often the clergy conditions our minds and hearts in such a way that we start to have animosity and hatred against other religious practices.
All religion in one form or another provide people to live a good, honest, compassionate, truthful life. In any event, it is not necessary to be a religious person to lead a moral life.



salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

#141

Unread post by salaar » Mon May 12, 2014 9:18 am

There was a king he was an atheist, a non believer of God, one day his minister who was a clever person and believed on the creator came late on his duty, the king got angry upon him and asked him what stopped you from coming on time, the minister said well king today i took another path today while coming to your palace and ended up in front of the river, now how to cross it ? i was thinking ways to cross it when a nearby tree fell down, got divided into pieces, those pieces joined up to form a boat and then i jumped into it and cross the river in that boat and finally reached here, the king looked into his eyes and shouted, do i look like a fool to believe that a tree fell by itself, got cut into pieces automatically and the pieces joined up themselves to form a boat, are you crazy how can all this happen by itself unless somebody did it, the wise minister smiled and replied Oh king ! when you dont believe on such a small creation by itself then HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS WHOLE WORLD WAS CREATED BY ITSELF WITHOUT ANYBODY CREATING IT.