Forcing Bohras to keep beard (dari)

[Danish]

Originally posted by Aareef:

Rubbish! You got your history twisted. Moses had no idea what Judaism is, Jesus had no idea what Christianity is and neither did Muhammad know anything about a religion named Islam.

ofcourse why not?? There is only one knowledgeable, enlightened and all knowing person in this world. His name is Danish. He is the only one who decides which religion is authentic and which is not. He was born before Moses and knows everything that happened ever since. That is why he can confidently write all this crap...

BTW: Guru nanak made beard compulsory for sikhs. Now don't tell me he had no idea of sikhism...

Tu quoque, personal attacks and non-sequitur foolish arguments is expected from Arabized religionists. Sikhism is not Islam and their holy book(s) is not Quran (and/or Sunnah), LOL. What are you talking about? Can you present some coherent and meaningful arguments? Just because Guru Granth (Sikhism), Buhanuddin (Bohraism) or Abdul Wahab (Wahabism) purport beadery, does not mean Muhammad did or Quran postulates. It is part of an enactment to control for creed and greed. The Quran is "THE BEST HADITH" above ALL and Muhammad bought a JUST SYSTEM, not a religion ..... PERIOD. When one understands the Quran in its proper context, it flavors a Natural System by reformation as we advance (dictated by reality and directed by circumstance), although it emphasizes in bearing certain core foundational settings towards righteousness viz-a-viz examples and warnings as guidance.

[Aarif]

Tu quoque, personal attacks and non-sequitur foolish arguments is expected from Arabized religionists

Ha Ha Ha..
Nice post... Was a good humorous read..

Let's start with basics as usual. Did prophet Muhammed advice the believers to keep beard?

[Aarif]

Also, before I forget the answer should be Yes or No. Don't go in circles as usual...

[Danish]

Originally posted by Aareef:

Tu quoque, personal attacks and non-sequitur foolish arguments is expected from Arabized religionists

Ha Ha Ha..
Nice post... Was a good humorous read..

You being descended from an Arabized religion, I should think so.

Did prophet Muhammed advice the believers to keep beard?

NO.

[Aarif]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did prophet Muhammed advice the believers to keep beard?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO.

Who told you that? You are lying.. If not prove your statement with concrete facts..

[Danish]

Originally posted by Aareef:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did prophet Muhammed advice the believers to keep beard?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO.

Who told you that? You are lying.. If not prove your statement with concrete facts..

The Quran.

[Aarif]

Where in Quran is it written that the believers should not keep beard???

[Danish]

Originally posted by Aareef:
Where in Quran is it written that the believers should not keep beard???

Where in the Quran does it state that beard MUST be kept? Another non-sequitur argument.

[Aarif]

Now you are saying what I wanted you to say. If there is no mention in the Quran about beard does not mean the prophet adviced muslims against keeping beard. If you do not have any concrete proof then you have to give benifit of doubt to others. Your useless surity is what turns me off.

[Danish]

There's no beardery, slavery, pedophelia, sodomy, rape, incest, thievery, or any injustices in the words of Muhammad (Quran) but you will find them in the words of Bukhara & Co. (sahih hadiths). Why do you think that is? Have you desecrated the Quran or don't you believe in the "Words of God"? Quran is a book of guidance and reflectance, take it seriously and move along. Stop becoming crazy over beard....that is what extremists or Islamists do (the ignorants and the foolish).

[Aarif]

Danish,

I personally do not keep a beard. But at the same time I do not object if people choose to keep one. Now that is called tolerance.. I am only against your anti-Islamic attitude. If you do not have a problem with people not keeping beard you should not have a problem with people keeping beard. It is individual preference. Also, no one can prove with 100% confidence that prophet never promoted beard among believers. So we need to give benifit of doubt to those who feel that way and leave it at that.

[East Africawalla]

I agree with Aareef , its one's own choice

[Al Zulfiqar]

Originally posted by East Africawalla:
I agree with Aareef , its one's own choice

there goes the supreme hypocrite again!

a staunch taheri abde-syedna like u who sports a massive junglee dadhi, is now trying to show tolerance?

[Danish]

Originally posted by Aareef:
Danish,

I personally do not keep a beard. But at the same time I do not object if people choose to keep one. Now that is called tolerance.. I am only against your anti-Islamic attitude. If you do not have a problem with people not keeping beard you should not have a problem with people keeping beard. It is individual preference. Also, no one can prove with 100% confidence that prophet never promoted beard among believers. So we need to give benifit of doubt to those who feel that way and leave it at that.

You are not only contradicting but dwindling in insulting Islam yourself and actually defending my point.

I stated earlier that don't go crazy over beard and move along; meaning it's not the mullah gullah's sunnahs, but you choice. Most bearded mullahs look like zombies and if they enforce beardery upon others, then that is an injustice, in much the same way as mandating of burkha or ridha, which is treacherous and wickedness.

[Aarif]

You are not only contradicting but dwindling in insulting Islam yourself

Believers of religion do not insult it. Also, you should be the one who should be reading your own past posts before saying this. You will find them extremely contradictory to whatever you are writing off lately. Earlier you left no stone unturned to criticize prophet, Quran and Islam. Now you are talking about Muhammed spreading the truth, Quran the holy book etc. And I can clearly see why you are doing this. This change in strategy solely from the fear of getting banned from this forum.

You praising Prophet and Islam is like "900 chuhe maarkar billi haj pe chali"

[Danish]

Originally posted by Aareef:

You are not only contradicting but dwindling in insulting Islam yourself

Believers of religion do not insult it.

What religion, what insult??? You mean your religion bought by the pagan idolworshipping Arabs which you volunteered or is it the Natural System installed by Muhammad and the rest of the previous "prophets" which you disbelieved and desecrated?

And I can clearly see why you are doing this. This change in strategy solely from the fear of getting banned from this forum.

O the naive, give me a break! So you have started your own personal hadiths to haunt me, just like the unscrupulous Bukhara & Co.? [/b][/quote]Is that what the Prophet did and Islam does, by presenting such analogy, LOL?

[Aarif]

O the naive, give me a break! So you have started your own personal hadiths to haunt me, just like the unscrupulous Bukhara & Co.?

I do not need to start a Hadith to tackle an idiot like you. Common sense is more than enough.

BTW: Only a cave man of your level will refer to common sense as Hadith. Now it is my turn to write LOL

[Danish]

Originally posted by Aareef:

O the naive, give me a break! So you have started your own personal hadiths to haunt me, just like the unscrupulous Bukhara & Co.?

I do not need to start a Hadith to tackle an idiot like you. Common sense is more than enough.[/b]/QUOTE]Bukhara & Co. did the same thing to Muhammad. So who are you calling an idiot, LOL? By the way, what has all this to do with beardery?

[accountability]

This article was published in Hindustantimes.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 09657.aspx

Willing to sport beard, burkha, Bohris asked

Shahzan and Tariq Mamoola (names changed), both in their 40s, were surprised to find a volunteer from a Bohri mosque in Khar at their doorstep a few days ago.

After listening to audio discourses by Dr Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin, the religious leader of the Dawoodi Bohra community, on the virtues of men sporting a beard and women wearing the ridah (traditional Bohri attire), the couple had to fill a form, giving their opinion on these practices.

The volunteer then urged Tariq, who is clean-shaven, and Shahzan, who wears salwar suits, to try and change their ways within a year.

For two months now, volunteers are visiting Bohris to note their stance on religious practices. The drive has surprised some members of the 1.3 lakh strong community — believed to be the most liberal within the Shia sect — in Mumbai.

“As long as we respect the Syedna, respect the religion and pray our namaaz, there is no need for us to dress or look a certain way,” said a 52-year-old Bohri businessman requesting anonymity. “If they force us, it will only create resentment.”

Hussain Khozema, a Colaba businessman, said: “I don’t think it’s as much an enforcement as an assessment of what the community’s reaction to religion is.”

Many believe that the drive aims to fulfill the Syedna’s wishes of uniformity in the global community before he turns 100 in 2012.

Ahmed Ali Yamani from Badri Mahal, the global Bohri administrative centre at Fort, denied the drive was an effort to impose conformity.

“Islam has given instructions on this. It is our culture, and people follow it willingly,” he said.

[stranger]

I would like to Share one thing which I have been witnessing and Observing since last couple of years or probably even more in Bohra community. I may be wrong in my observation, as this is just a personal opinion of mine. Would like to hear what other members have to say on it, from both the side of divide.
I feels that nowadays the most frequent and strongest emphasis is on growing beard than anything else. The trend of growing long beard is at so much peak in bohra community than any other deed or arkaan is insignificant in front of it. Why i said trend because whenever I tried to ask any of my friend or any person, that why you are keeping beard. Most of the time, I have got one of the below answer :-
1.) Everyone is keeping , thats why !
2.) It does not look good in Mosque and community, if you don't keep !
3.) Moula (T.U.S) no farmaan chhe !
I am not saying that ALL are keeping it for above reasons but yes many poeple and a lot of youngsters fall under this category.

Following Sunnah of prophet (SAW) is certainly recommended and appreciable BUT Its when you are following it considering as Sunnah, on your own conscious, with all your heart, NOT under any force, NOT under any Fear, NOT under any obligation. You can deceive peoples by doing so but How you will deceive ALLAH (SWT) ?

Anyway, Lets Come to the point :-
I am not saying that we should not keep or the farmaan should not be followed but certainly it should not be a parameter to judge a person's Imaan, Unfortunately its the criteria which has been widely practising in our community lately. If you have beard than you are a true bohra and if NOT then your Imaan is not upto the mark.
You will be look upon as you are doing some crime by not keeping a beard.
For suppose, you are a person who never misses a fard prayer, you are a person who don't have any bad habit, you are not involve in any haraam act... Regardless, the common thinking and mentality which has got embedded in people's mind currently is that : If you are not bearded then you're not religious. Short and Simple !

[SBM]

Deen mein Dadhi hey, Dadhi mein Deen Nahi

from a movie
The only problem I see is a beard which is not properly trimmed or kept. Again NOT Trimming is something which is now followed by DB but always
been a must for Tablighi Jamaat followers.

[JC]

These are just tactics ......... these things are used to make people toe to line, this is teaching and training 'how' to obey whether you like it or not, agree or not ....... you will get used to obeying whatever comes ..... so if tomorrow a more harsher or more illogical or more unacceptable order comes, you will just accept it and do what you are told to do or not to do. This is to Divide human beings - one stays or becomes super human being and other becomes animal. The divide is already there specially in bohras - Ahle-Bayt, Imams, Dai and Royal Family are the Ruling Class, Super Human Beings, God-Gifted and others are simply Abdes ........ follow the master like a donkey follows master .......

[humanbeing]

Dear Readers

I believe in freedom of choice, keeping beard or not keeping beard, shall be on keeper’s choice.

In my POV, we grow with age and mature as per our life’s experiences. Every phase of our growing we go through several outlook towards life, as we grow from childhood we wish to be smart, stylish, savvy and attractive as per our perception / experience / orientation / exposure to grooming through the phases. As we grow from one phase to another we change our appearance and outlook as per maturity and understanding.

There are several advantage listed as per DB philosophy, I was told these by elders who encourage to keep a full growing beard:

• It restraints youngsters from worldly distractions (discos, pubs, bars etc) as bearded man is considered pious, and it’s a shame to be seen at such places.
• It is a sign of male bravado, a distinctive feature of “Be a Man” grrrrr !!
• It instils a sense of compassion, makes men; milder, kinder, softer in character.
• It is a sign of faithfulness, obedience, righteousness in Islam / Prophet / Dai.
• It represents knowledge and wisdom
• It commands respects from general populace

Beard looks good on certain personalities, when groomed and managed after a particular age or phase of life, we see elders keep beards, they look graceful, respected and wiser by virtue of experience and knowledge. Also they are keeping beard out of own will, understanding and maturity.

[Conscíous]

Stranger,
I agree with your POV, but have you thought about why our community has reached to this point of judging people only visually and not by their deeds??

[Conscíous]

JC,
Yes, beard it just another weapon to control and brainwash us..

[Conscíous]

Humanbeing,
I was told the same reasons for keeping a beard but did fall for it..

[ghulam muhammed]

It restraints youngsters from worldly distractions (discos, pubs, bars etc) as bearded man is considered pious, and it’s a shame to be seen at such places.

I have seen Vijay Mallya recently sporting a french beard and you know that he is a number one playboy, drunkard and hangs around with sexy bombshells.

It instils a sense of compassion, makes men; milder, kinder, softer in character

Even Bal Thackerey, Narendra Modi and Osama Bin Laden have beards. You know how mild, kind and soft they are in character.

It represents knowledge and wisdom

Abdes are the glaring examples of 'knowledge' and WISDOM !!.

It commands respects from general populace

The intellegent and rational thinkers do not buy this theory.Would you respect Thackerey, Modi and Chandraswami ?

[humanbeing]

Hi GM

I m talking about full grown beard, examples which you expressed does not come into this category. Also the advantages mentioned in my post applies to DB philosophy only and exclusively.

Hey but one thing I have observed, youngsters instructed to keep long beards to some extent shy away from discos and pubs. I m not sure or vouch for other advantages !! This is a fantasy world !! A world of make believe !! Larger than life & death !! You gotta be lucky to be born in it !!

Hey friends .. No offense ok !! Just saying in light spirit !!

[Conscíous]

hehe ^^ It's all good my friend

[SBM]

humanbeing wrote:It commands respects from general populace
The intellegent and rational thinkers do not buy this theory.Would you respect Thackerey, Modi and Chandraswami ?

Warren Buffett, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates,Azim Premji do not have beards and they do command real respect with their philanthropy and
their gift of knowledge to world
Do not get me wrong, I have nothing against beard but one's religious believes should not be judged by the length and thickness of Beard,