Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Nafisa
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#31

Unread post by Nafisa » Fri May 30, 2014 5:55 am

Zahra Behn!
Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin has already granted you Quwat to fight against the Firoon of the time and this is the first victory of Mazloom Mumineen. Mubarak to you and all Mazloom Mumineen, victims of Saify, Burhani, Saify evil power. Do continue this crusade, it was initiated by SKQ, now you are torch barer of the Revolutionary movement. May Husain (AS) helps all of you. You are doing great Khidmat of this community, who are under the toxic of opium.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#32

Unread post by think » Fri May 30, 2014 8:03 am

mr ghan chakar, man is not respected by his clothes but by his deeds. got it . Or do
I have to elaborate. Look around you. Your dai welcomes people more if they are half naked or are wearing a suit. your jolly old jimmy of London jamaat looks no more than a joker in a university cloak and cap. I think noon knew it all along and purposely did this to let the bohra community know between the lines how foolish their leaders were.

Ozdundee
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#33

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri May 30, 2014 8:04 am

Welldone team PDB and now reformist worldwide need to build on the success to take our protests further

are there any video clips that can be shared via youtube ?

Shafakat
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:16 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#34

Unread post by Shafakat » Fri May 30, 2014 8:33 am

Well Done Insaaf Bhai and Zehra Bhen.

bohra_manus
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#35

Unread post by bohra_manus » Fri May 30, 2014 8:39 am

chakker wrote:I am afraid I do not agree that one should visit our shrines in any dress code that one pleases. We are Dawoodi Bohras and have a dress code in place. We visit our holy places for the the purpose of paying our respects to our Doats and Aliya-ul-kiraams. The least we can do is present ourselves in a respectable manner. I am sure wearing a topi and at least a kurti can do no harm. Internationally, Dawoodi Bohras are respected by their dress code. One cannot dress differently and then claim to be a Dawoodi Bohra whether he/she is "progressive" or not. Try performing Haj in ordinary clothes and see where it gets you. Even a mayyit's head and body are covered appropriately as required by the shariat.
I am a reformist and I applaud the efforts of Mr. Insaaf and other Reformists in India, I must respectfully say that going to the mazars without a topi shows disrespect to the Awaliyas you are trying to honor. Yes STS, SMB, and SMS all mingled/hugged with half naked sadhus or non bohra people but topi is the bohra trade mark and should be used in religious places. I agree that there should be no compulsion to wear it in day to day life just during the visits to all religious places including Bohra Mazars.
Just my $0.02

canadian
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#36

Unread post by canadian » Fri May 30, 2014 8:56 am

My two cents:

I do not think cemeteries and mazaars are religious places. They are just graves of people whether v i p's or ordinary persons. Also, why do bohras insist on a particular type of topi; why not any head covering- any type of topi or any hat or any handkerchief?

Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#37

Unread post by Mazakyo » Fri May 30, 2014 10:07 am

Wah bhai. Apna Insaf tu bara chettah nikla !! Jeeta reh Insaf.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#38

Unread post by think » Fri May 30, 2014 6:46 pm

wearing bohra topi in cmetary is your own choice. There is nothing in the quran and do not need to read any fatwas of any two bit amil . the facts are that even on the most religious of muslim occasions , which is haj, people do not have to cover their heads and taking it a step further, they even have to get bald.
The message of Allah is clear. My child come to me with a heart of gold not a bohri golden topi.

Maqbool
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#39

Unread post by Maqbool » Sat May 31, 2014 1:09 am

Don't forget the kaba the most holiest place for us, and we visit that place without topi.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#40

Unread post by humanbeing » Sat May 31, 2014 1:30 am

Congratulations to reformist to have taken bold steps to claims their rights.

Mausoleums are not religious places, then why compare with Haram-shareef ! I support wearing of Topi and kurta to visit such social common places ( markaz, masjids, dargaahs). It instills a sense of discipline and uniformity and equality. Also represents a cultural identity which has become a positive outlook towards bohra community. A free for all behavior may cause indiscipline. Modest Dressing is a subjective issue.

Reformist shall not push everything under blanket of oppression. Also to defy everything and anything is a put off, both groups have to come to a mutual understanding.

In last 40 years there has been lot of construction of bohra properties, to which reformist bohra may not have contributed, however they must be welcomed with open arms on grounds of compassion and unity.

Ozdundee
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#41

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sat May 31, 2014 4:23 am

Chill out those criticising , the reformist were making a protest march..they wanted to break barriers of oppression where abdes did not stop their march.

The wearing of std is of irrelevance in the protest. Reformist need to shut up and soak up the success . Give them credit for risking their lives to represent us in breaking the gates of tyranny. I also congratulate the abdes for showing restraint and accommodating the reformist march. If the abdes and administrators were ready to accept their explanation of why they don't have std it shows who is are more tolerant and accommodative

This shows we have very few differences which we can tolerate and live peacefully side by side without interference from kothar.

Regarding std it is cultural item , do you wear topi at the most significant place like hajj ? Do you wear topi when one is buried , if in bohra way is to face Allah? So why std when we meet mere mortals ?

SI and team PDB ignore those who would rather comment but not see the glass half full! You walked the talk we need more such examples and proof the reformists mean business ! Next time the protest march will be even bigger, make this an annual event!

chakker
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:51 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#42

Unread post by chakker » Sat May 31, 2014 4:59 am

So the "reformists" who visited shrines entered wearing shoes? During the time of Hajj and Umra there is a dress code which must be followed. However, outside these two events at the time of prayers there are those who pray in the Kaaba wearing their topi if it is part of their dress code. Baba Ramdev came to pay his respects in his dress code. One cannot expect him to come in Dawoodi Bohra comi libas! Did anyone expect Qaid Johar bhaisaab to receive his doctrate in pyjamas?!! If there is a dress code in a school would you send your child in a different dress or his/her home dress? I see in one of the pictures some women praying in ridas while others without the ridas. So those without the ridas did carry their maselas, why?!!

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#43

Unread post by think » Sat May 31, 2014 7:27 am

The magnanimous success of the freedom loving bohras is being side tracked by dress codes.
The minute you wear the dress code the Amil thinks you are his to play with. It gives him cult like superiority.
you can wear any colour dress in church so long as it is descent. People go to the masjid with their shoes and keep their shoes byu their side when praying. In Pakistan and elsewhere people go to pray wearing any colour kurta pyjama. Yes Jimmy of London ; if he is what he shows off to be; which is a religious leader, then there is no need for him to change attires. Pyjama for him would be most appropriate any where.

Nafisa
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#44

Unread post by Nafisa » Sat May 31, 2014 7:28 am

Islam is an universal religion. Qur'an and Sahib al Qur'an has not fixed or designed any dress code to perform Salaat, which is Farz Ibadat. Religion is not a club, it was Yusuf Najmuddin who explained first that if you wish to join any club you have to follow its rule. That "Najis" compared the Deen of Islam with club(a place of Halla Gulla), Nauzubillah. Since all paid Mullas followed his words as a sacred text. Dress code of Haj is prescribed by Muhammed (SAWA) and Kafan is a Sunnat of Anbiya, from Adam (AS). In Baitullah al Haraam and Masjid al Nabavi millions of Muslims from all corners of the world offer Salaat daily in their own dresses.

To offer Fateha on the graves of Duaat and Awliya Bohra cap, Rida, Saya+Kurta is not necessary. Visit Karbala,Najaf and Iran , you will see millions of devotees of Ahl al Bait offering Salaam and Ziyarat in different dresses. Are they Kafir or Munafiq?

Current days Bohra man dress is a degradation of the dress of Ulema and it was part of Yusuf Najmu's series of Bidaat for valid reasons.

bohri
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#45

Unread post by bohri » Sat May 31, 2014 9:23 am

Congratulations to all who participated in this event and to the organizers. Saiffuddin Bhai and Zehra Ben, we indebted to you for your leadership and bravery. You have demonstrated that action is the key to freedom.

Bohri brothers and sisters, your actions will count. Even baby steps such as refusing to pay a certain new tax, or attending an event to glorify the Kothar goons. PDBs have created an opening for you, now it is yours to push all the way.

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#46

Unread post by alam » Sat May 31, 2014 12:36 pm

This dress code discussion seems pointless in light of the big picture and the huge milestone achievd by the 40 people in breaking barriers, showing a face and walking the walk.

The fact is sometimes revolution needs to be dramatic. Dress is symbolic. Lack of dress code during this 40 person ziyarat code is significant and makes a statement at multiple levels, which must be celebrated.

Don't confuse the forest path with the shape and color of the individual trees.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#47

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat May 31, 2014 3:46 pm

I don't think that reformists were wearing obscene dresses, so why this hue and cry ? The ladies were wearing salwar kurtas which was a norm a few years ago, if at all this was objectionable then why didn't the 51st Dai impose a ban ? Even the men used to pray in Masjids in shirt/pant some years back, there was no compulsion of dadhi in 51st Dai's time. Hence what the reformists have done is purely legitimate and moreover they drove a point that bohras cannot be subjugated in any manner whatsoever.

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#48

Unread post by New » Sat May 31, 2014 4:26 pm

I strongly suggest that readers quit talking about trivial things like attire. In the democratic country this has no place.

Zehra bahen and Insaff bhai and others are brave souls. Their achievements are beyond measures. I have no words to adequately praise them.

What achieved is like a small "Dandi Yatra". I could have never done what these brave souls did with patience and courage. I am sure with 40 marchers there are thousands who want to break their shackles all over the world. Wishing you the best. I am more than willing to give financial help from the US, if needed and also for helping the poor.

Some day I would love to read their written account.

talibeilm
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:43 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#49

Unread post by talibeilm » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:03 am

Hats off for Saifuddin bhai, Zehra bahen and others to break the shackles and create a history. It is now high time for action rather than debate. Some more similar steps should be taken in the near future to continue this thread. Discussions over dress code are futile and is an attempt on the part of Abdes to undermine the impact of this tour.

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#50

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:34 am

We have decided to break our tour in to three phases.
First Gujarat+ Saurashtra
Second M.P.
And then Maharashtra.
We will soon announce in advance the dates we will reach each town for the ziyarat.
Those who want to join us please contact:-
Saifuddin Insaf (Mumbai) – Phone: 0981 988 4226 or
Zehra Ben Cyclewala (Surat) – Phone: 09198 2570 5365 or
Kurban bhai Badami (Rajkot) – Phone: 0940 8041 522

You will have to bear your own expenses of the Tour.

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#51

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:23 am

We are Dawoodi Bohras since last 400 years, Sayedna Daud bin Ajab Shah's time. During last 50 Dai’s time there was no restrictions of Dress-code, Beard and Raza, E-jamat card/ smart card. There was no threat of Salam band / Jamatkharij / Baraat. Misaq was only for Imamuz-Zaman and it was just a custom to be fulfilled once in a life time.
I used to recite nohas and marsiyahs in the Bohra mosques with black cap or a handkerchief on my head even during Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb’s time.
Salam band/Jamatkharij was introduced by him in 1925 during “Burhanpoor Dargah case”.
All other restrictions were imposed during Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb’s time especially after mass revolt in Udaipur in 1973.

The compilation “Gulshan-e-Dawat” by Shaikh Kika bhai Saikh Musakhan Rayaq (NDI) of Ujjain published by the Raza of Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb in the year 1975 (after mass revolt in Udaipur does not state a word about these restrictions and shows on page 328 a picture of Bohras from Godhara, Yaman, hydrabad, Bombay, Jamnagar, Surat/ Khambat, Ujjain/Indore Sagwada/Durgarpoor, Jawad/Mandasor, Sironj/Bhopal, Narsinghar/Bhopal, Kokawa/Pisawar, wearing a different cap/head gear tipical to their areas.
Those who think that the present Dress-code and restrictions are part of Dawoodi Bohra identity please think over again. My humble request.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#52

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:09 am

Dressing Sense is a trivial issue and both sides of the arguments are making a big deal out of it. I m not promoting compulsion and I m not supporting casual dressing too. I understand certain rituals and practices are indirect way of mind control and oppression tactics. Wearing of SKT and Rida does no harm, it is the compulsion from Kothar which is wrong. If people volunteerly agree to a dress code and try to adhere by it with convenience, why rebel against it.

Do we rebel against schools, military, industries ? even hajj has a dress a code which is “ehraam” and many find it inconvenient to carry it off for many days.. why not object that !

I wholeheartedly welcome and applaud the reformist of coming forward on all india scale. But I see a lot of grudge that reformist are coming forward with, I do understand that reformist went through a lot of struggle, emotional torture and hardship from kothar. At one point reformist and progressives are claiming to be open minded wanting to change / bring reform and modernity to old practices and rituals, wanting to change with time and at another point they citing 100 years old practices and want to stick with it.

There are kothar who are hell bent on imposing their mindset and there are progressives hell bent on defying everything that has kothar tags on it mindlessly. Yes ! things were different 100s of years ago, people wore sarees, bell bottoms, cargo pants, turbans, hats, topis, skirts and lehengaas. Those who are citing old examples sound rigid and stuck as much as kothar is.

The Ziyarat Tour is a bold and important step, where progressives are getting wide publicity and becoming talk of the town. If we are looking forward to an effective integration, there has to be mutual understanding and open minded discussion regarding all matters affecting our routines, appearances and outlooks.

Sit and think rationally, remove the grudge from the heart and analyze the pros and cons of a uniform dress code as well casual dressing.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#53

Unread post by think » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:07 am

let hearts unite instead of clothes.

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#54

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:21 pm

Great news ! Congratulations to all.
would like to know more about the overall experience of the participants, challenges faced (if any), possibility of similar collaborations in the future etc.

Browsed through the discussions over attire here..
Actually, there are various reasons why a standard attire is chosen to be worn at (certain) places. It symbolizes unity, provides a sense of belonging, inculcates discipline, to name a few.
Besides this, dressing differently may create an impression of groupism within the same sect, to a third person's eye.

Moreover, a dress code/ attire is pretty much in place everywhere!
The military has one,
The air hostesses,
The students in a school,etc.

I guess it becomes a bit taxing on us when it comes to religion.. ;)

But having said this, it still would remain a trivial issue considering the milestone that is being achieved. With that achievement, not just the attire, but everything else seems trivial.At the moment, the focus needs to be on bridging the gap rather than enforcement of a customary attire.

Actually, nothing should be enforced anyway. Its more welcome if done willingly than if done out of compulsion. :)

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#55

Unread post by Sufi monk » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:10 am

think wrote:let hearts unite instead of clothes.
million dollar post. :D

rational_guy
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:21 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#56

Unread post by rational_guy » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:19 am

I heard Shz Aliasger Kalimuddin people pray laanat on people who they do not like, when they come for zyarat.

Dr Fatema
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:38 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#57

Unread post by Dr Fatema » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:19 am

Dress code during Ziyarat is a burden. Before 15-20 years there were no such compulsion. Zayreen can visit dargarh any time, now without Rida & Sayah Kurta Topi are compulsory. This has put so much burden especially if one is tourist .

Nafisa
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#58

Unread post by Nafisa » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:14 pm

rational_guy wrote:I heard Shz Aliasger Kalimuddin people pray laanat on people who they do not like, when they come for zyarat.
I pray always Lanat on usurpers Maloon who snatched the seat of Ahl al Bait, likewise I send Lanat upon the killers of Syedna Muhammed Badruddin 46th Dai and upon him who snatched his seat. Lanat upon all those Nazim Dais who turned direction of the Mumineen from Allah to Dai(themselves) and become ilah al Ard. Lanat upon their so-called Hudud, like Ali Asghar Kalimuddin and Qasim Muaviyya who are spreading Shirk only.

Admin
Posts: 666
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#59

Unread post by Admin » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:58 pm

Article and pictures on the website:
Article link: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/
Homepage link: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/

Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Reformists’ Ziyarat Tour

#60

Unread post by Mazakyo » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:19 pm

Admin wrote:Article and pictures on the website:
Article link: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/
Homepage link: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/
Wah bhai Saifu bhai baray smart laag rahey ho ?? Good photo.