Reformist Bohras should join the case

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Saeed al Khair
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 5:08 pm

Reformist Bohras should join the case

#1

Unread post by Saeed al Khair » Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Appeal

The Reformist Bohras is a large worldwide wing of the Dawoodi Bohra Jamaat. For the betterment of the community's future they should file an application in Bombay High Court immediately in the case of SKQ and MS requesting the court to allow them to become a party. This is the good time when they can discuss Baraat, Misaq, Wajebaat and other relevant issues in the court.

I hope learned readers post their constructive comments, which will help moderate Dawoodi Bohras to fight the tyrant clergy, under control of Mufaddal and brothers. Hope that through the court judgement harassment of Aamil/Mullas will be reduce and people will enjoy their lives peacefully as a normal person.

abbasb
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#2

Unread post by abbasb » Mon May 19, 2014 12:23 pm

I second the motion. It is high time that Reformist jamaats should come out openly in support of SKQ as he has the power and wisdom to bring down the corrupt kothar establishment.

Ozdundee
Posts: 889
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#3

Unread post by Ozdundee » Mon May 19, 2014 2:59 pm

abbasb wrote:I second the motion. It is high time that Reformist jamaats should come out openly in support of SKQ as he has the power and wisdom to bring down the corrupt kothar establishment.
There has been plenty discussion around PDB and reformists association with SKQ . As a reformist I and many others support SKQ morally and wish his group success but there is so much work ahead to make any formal alliance, to make it clear there is no alliance as yet. However there is no hostility between both sides but there still remain points of difference , which need to be addressed sooner or later.

It is the reformists and PDB who made the initial step to engage from various locations in India and overseas so to make the point too the will is there in reformist minds at all time , including SMS if ever that is feasible. What is needed is reciprocating actions from both sides with mutual respect to make it successful and meaningful.

If one reads this website blogs PDB more specifically have given SKQ fans and supporters a platform like no other free of charge without censorship to advance their cause which is the sigh of their goodwill and intent. I hope SKQ team is appreciative of the fact.

Meanwhile while SMS and SKQ dispute may have taken the spotlight , Reformists have not let their guard down or become complacent., resistance and defiance is business as usual..lotta continua

OzD is not an official of PDB and makes his own statements.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#4

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue May 20, 2014 2:15 am

Along with legal recourse, PDB must start interacting with Abdes, but with patience. Recent Ziyarat Tour is an excellent initiative and I request PDB association to create an update on this regard and post audio video to promote the idea of integration.

PDB must lower the guard and extend a compassionate hand even at the face of arrogance and hatred. Love wins over hatred !

Make the concept of baraat irrelevant !

Dr Fatema
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:38 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#5

Unread post by Dr Fatema » Tue May 20, 2014 6:48 am

My husband confirmed that Reformist (Bohra Youth) in Udaipur are willing to join SMS camp. So majority of reformist are in favour of SMS than SKQ is finished, better he himself make compromise with SMS.

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#6

Unread post by Sufi monk » Tue May 20, 2014 6:56 am

I dont think reformist will even think about joining SMS, unless they have lost their mind just like MS.

natkhat pari
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:56 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#7

Unread post by natkhat pari » Tue May 20, 2014 7:05 am

Dr Fatema wrote:My husband confirmed that Reformist (Bohra Youth) in Udaipur are willing to join SMS camp. So majority of reformist are in favour of SMS than SKQ is finished, better he himself make compromise with SMS.
Ben fatima your husband must be aaj tak reporter breaking news before it happens is he member of aam adami party wants form go rvment in delhi

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#8

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Tue May 20, 2014 9:47 am

Dr Fatema wrote:My husband confirmed that Reformist (Bohra Youth) in Udaipur are willing to join SMS camp. So majority of reformist are in favour of SMS than SKQ is finished, better he himself make compromise with SMS.
Insafbhai has mentioned in his thread "Reformists' Ziyarat tours"
Recently the orthodox Bohras (Shabab) of Udaipur have started coming on their own in Udaipur Masjids and offering namaz under Imamat of Reformist Mulla Sahebs along with reformist Bohras

Now i think either there is some sort of confusion by ur husband or is something FISHY from MS clan. May be their plan is to do false propoganda that reformist had accepted MS as their leader even though the actual scenario is different.

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#9

Unread post by Rebel » Tue May 20, 2014 1:42 pm

Reformists have been trying for many years but they are unsuccessful in bringing down kothar and co. Reformists are not considered good individuals in the eyes of followers of Dai Bohra head. I at one stage in my life was conditioned by mullahs to hate all reformists because as they do adawat against the rutba of Moula and ask financial accountability from Moula. Reformists may have had an impact in the early stages but now people are not much bothered about their agitation and writings as the community members have become insensitive in their hearts and minds.
The kohtar and co. are extremely strong as they are highly organized in weakening the minds of the community members and would trample any uprising from the people. Masses are with the kothar so there is no way they can come down. If Masses wake up and only they can bring the revolutionary change which is the need of the hour. The enlightened individuals of the community can be direct, motivate and inspire the masses to rise against the mullahs.

Humsafar
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#10

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue May 20, 2014 2:33 pm

Rebel wrote:Reformists have been trying for many years but they are unsuccessful in bringing down kothar and co.
Reformists alone cannot bring the Kothar down as long as it has masses of abdes eating out of its hand. To call their efforts as "unsuccessful" is wrong. What reformists have been doing is challenging the Kothar, exposing its lies and its authoritarian ways - without any help from the general public. Bohras have been domesticated to such an extent that they have forgotten to even breathe freely - if told they will seek raza and do salam for that too. Blame their fear, self-interest, indifference and their apathy for the situation they are in. Reformists are not responsible for their lot.

Humsafar
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#11

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue May 20, 2014 3:04 pm

My information is that reformists are preparing to intervene.
Dr Fatema wrote:My husband confirmed that Reformist (Bohra Youth) in Udaipur are willing to join SMS camp. So majority of reformist are in favour of SMS than SKQ is finished, better he himself make compromise with SMS.
Dr Fatema, your husband is lying. Udaipur reformists are not aligning with either group. The reformist stand is that the dispute over the seat of the Dai is not for them to resolve.

It is true that orthodox (shabab) people have of late started coming to reformist (youth) masjids. They are like sheep, they will do whatever they are told. In the past 40 years they have been made to dance to different tunes, this time too they are up to no good. Reformists have never stopped them from coming to our masjids, it is the orthodox who did not come because they refused to pray behind the "Imam without raza". For 40 years this was their ruse, and all of a sudden the "Imam without raza" does not seem to matter. It shows how stupid these abdes are and how stupider their masters are. The ideas behind this new tactic is to invade our masjids, and overwhelm us because we are fewer in numbers, and ultimately take over our masjids and properties. But it's not going to be easy. Dawoodi Bohra Jamat (which belongs to the reformists) are the original title holders to the properties. The orothodox call themselves Shia Dawoodi Bohras and will have no traction over legal claim over our properties.

Apart from this technicality, the most important factor is that the orthodox always seem to discount reformists commitment and resolve. Especially those of our women. Our women have taken the matters in their own hands and are making sure that the orthodox people pray outside the main part of the masjid. Why? Because in one orthodox-controlled masjid in Moyyadpura, reformists are given a small space of no more than 20 people by the door, and humiliatingly that space is cordoned off with permanent metal boundary. In response Reformists too are pushing back the orthodox to the back of the masjid. And this is all been done at the initiative and enterprise of reformist women. They are brave and fearless and would not listen to reformist men ( and leaders) who are willing to show a more conciliatory attitude. As a result of their effort, now the number of orthodox trooping to masjids has considerably reduced.

One more thing to note, as always the Kothar uses the uneducated and poor Bohras to do its dirty work for them. In Udaipur too these hapless abdes were pressed into service, and at first they came in in hordes while the rich fatcats and sheikhs and chamchas stayed home and watched the fun. This one more blatant example of class system among Bohras.

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#12

Unread post by Rebel » Tue May 20, 2014 3:17 pm

What was the purpose of reformists? Challenging the kohtar was only their objective and creating another group within the community called reformists or reformist movement then they are successful and if it was to move the thinking of the people and changing their mindset and bringing down the kohtar and co. then they are unsuccessful. Most of the bohras are already aware of the fallacies of the kohtar but they don't want to move out of the box and they even won't how hard the reformists tried or will try. Your justification will not change my thinking or outlook. I am not blaming the reformists in any way. What I am saying is that they failed to bring down the kothar and their hypocrisy.
Dawat is alive and well and extorting money from all of us despite of the fact what reformists and other dawoodi bohras subdivisions have done to challenge them. The fact is that many reformists have come into the fold of dawat as they realize that they cannot fight the mighty and powerful corrupt dawat. I have seen many reformists took misaaq which was against their principles and living a happy life at present because living a life in fear against kothar was not the way to live. They may still be active reformists but at least they have a place in Bohra society. There are places you may have never seen any reformists at all. Pakistan, Sri lanka and other middle eastern countries are places where you may not encounter them.

Humsafar
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#13

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue May 20, 2014 4:12 pm

Rebel,
I'm in general agreement with you. I just wanted to clarify the point about reformists being "unsuccessful". This is the perception people have about us and I'm duty bound to step in and correct this. To say that "reformists failed to bring down the Kothar" is wrong. Yes we challenged the Kothar - legally, socially and also on religious grounds, but that's not all we did are doing. Without reformists efforts the Bohra issue would not have come into public awareness, this website would not have existed and you would not be here freely expressing your opinion. We have been holding conferences since the Seventies, engaging the media and other sectors of society who are similarly exploited. We have been doing more than our limited funds and resources and reach would allow. The Kothar still stands and is getting stronger not because of want of efforts reformists' part but because of the apathy and cowardice of Bohras. Reformists have played their part, the Bohras have not. This is what I wanted to underline.

seeker110
Posts: 1728
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#14

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue May 20, 2014 4:31 pm

I keep telling abdes to stop giving them money. It will hurt their childrens future and will end up supporting evil. I request them not to take away their children's freedoms and their hard earned money. Support the poor and the needy. Not the haramkhore family.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#15

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue May 20, 2014 4:39 pm

seeker110 wrote:I keep telling abdes to stop giving them money. It will hurt their childrens future and will end up supporting evil. I request them not to take away their children's freedoms and their hard earned money. Support the poor and the needy. Not the haramkhore family.
Most of the enlightened lot do the same but what the abdes want is "Religion of Convenience" and not "Religion of Islam".

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#16

Unread post by Rebel » Tue May 20, 2014 5:15 pm

@humsafar - our discussions can open a new chapter - I forwarding you with information and you defending the movement - so no disputes. We agree on at least points and issues. It is necessary and healthy to have some disagreements too.

@seeker110 & @GM - both of you are absolutely honest in telling that we should not give them money while putting our children's life in jeopardy and we all know what they do with the money that we all earned and worked so hard far. Yes, it has become a social practice now; to go to masjid, eat in jamatkhana, socialize, chat and laugh and enjoy life with our tummy full ghee leaden rice provided graciously by kothar and co. And in our sleep we might even sing bhajans of Moula Moula Muaffadal Moula. It has become religion of convenience.

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#17

Unread post by alam » Thu May 29, 2014 1:32 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
seeker110 wrote:I keep telling abdes to stop giving them money. It will hurt their childrens future and will end up supporting evil. I request them not to take away their children's freedoms and their hard earned money. Support the poor and the needy. Not the haramkhore family.
Most of the enlightened lot do the same but what the abdes want is "Religion of Convenience" and not "Religion of Islam".
It's not a religion anymore. It's a commune. We want to go back to the make believe world of a bubble we lived in. Tthe way it used to be before it got corrupt and coercive.

The sense of peace in the community. We have lost the peace, and the loving among our people.

natkhat pari
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:56 am

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#18

Unread post by natkhat pari » Thu May 29, 2014 6:11 am

From 2002 taher qutbuddin and PDB GS were in email correspondence regarding this but could not decide on a good lawyer
that say mr insaf

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Reformist Bohras should join the case

#19

Unread post by Rebel » Thu May 29, 2014 7:30 pm

alam wrote:
ghulam muhammed wrote: Most of the enlightened lot do the same but what the abdes want is "Religion of Convenience" and not "Religion of Islam".
It's not a religion anymore. It's a commune. We want to go back to the make believe world of a bubble we lived in. Tthe way it used to be before it got corrupt and coercive.

The sense of peace in the community. We have lost the peace, and the loving among our people.
Correct, we have evolved into a cult, a cult of pagan worshiping. Most of community members are mentally depressed because of the extortions from the kothar and co. Class system and ethnicity prevalent in the system has divided the community into groups. One group considers themselves above others and above all bhaisahebs boasts themselves to be the top of all the clans. Prophet made all people equal and we divided the people in ethnic groups where one clan is superior above all.