Shikar in Zambia

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fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#91

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:39 am

as we all know that due to our mistake of forwarding the shikar photos, those photos are getting circulated on social network with really bad comments which is targeting our community. Plz stop sending huzurala photos from now on. And let us follow the farmaan
that say not to do such activities.
And its a request to the grp admin if any1 in this grp thus such activity of forwarding huzuralas photos or any joke on community should be removed immidiately from this grp,

Plz grp admin conform this msg.. And make it strict.
Plz forward this above msg to other grps so every1 should realize how sensitive is this issue and follow the farmaan religiously.
No warnings from now on....

source: whatsapp

Ex communication frm whatsapp grp :D

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#92

Unread post by seeker110 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:42 am

If only your Dai would stop indulging in haram activities. There is more stuff going to be coming up. if you do believe he is next to God than just request him to destroy the networks.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#93

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:52 am

this Royal Qasre-Aali family is taking 1 million bohras for a ride. this people in past have not seen so much wealth in their family, and now during this era they have unaccountable wealth not earned by honest living but forcefully extorted from their fellow bohras. This people in quench for more money have forgotten the simple and modest living of our auliyas and ahle-baits and have become victim of greed.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#94

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:29 pm

watsup msg :

Killing animals for fun, or torturing them is strictly forbidden in Islam. Hunting animals for sport is not allowed in Islam.

Even when slaughtering an animal for food, Islam instructs Muslims to do so humanely. The knife must be sharp so it will be quick and as painless as possible for the animal. Also, the animals being slaughtered should be kept separate from others, so they do not see the others dying and get scared.

The Prophet (s.a.w.) had a pet cat named Muezza. He cared about her so much that one day when he was getting ready to go out, He found her asleep on the sleeve of his cloak. So he cut off his sleeve rather than wake her up.

Six Surahs in the Quran are named after animals. The Cow (2), The Cattle (6), The Bee (16), The Ant (27), The Spider (29), and The Elephant (105).

There are numerous verses in the Quran about animals, and we are often told by Allah (swt) in the Quran to look at the animals as signs of HIS existence. Kindness to animals is very important in Islam.

If you are not treating animals kindly, you are not treating your fellow humans kindly. If you want to be loved by your Creator, love HIS creatures !


New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#96

Unread post by New » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:21 pm

Wah wah Gulam bhai. This is beyond any praise for you, in procuring this picture.

alam
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#97

Unread post by alam » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:09 am

Who is this person?

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#98

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:35 am

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (AQ)

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#99

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:13 pm

watsup msg :

Aavti kaale sagla mumenin ne maghrib baad Mola ni Africa na Shikar ni cassette batavama aavse. Te baad sagla ne haathi ni haddi na soup ni ek chamchi barkat ni naseeb thaase. Jene 'Boti' ni wadhare barkat joti hoi te noreply@its52 par register karave. Zyada ma zyada araz thase itla chances wadhse !

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#100

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:08 pm

Mumineen are awaiting of Mubarak arrival of Huzurala (TUS) by doing Ibadat, Maatam, Khidmat in Tananarive, Madagascar

ACTUALLY THE ANIMALS LIVING IN THE JUNGLES OF THIS AFRICAN CONTINENT SHOULD BE DOING "MAATAM" AS THEIR DAYS ARE NOW NUMBERED !! :D :D

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... 2/pwd9.jpg[/img]

Sufi monk
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#101

Unread post by Sufi monk » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:48 am

abdes are trying to avoid shikaar subject by commenting on IRAQ tragedy, so lets keep this topic alive, so these morons can not run away with it.

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#102

Unread post by pheonix » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:23 am

Zali110 wrote: “Lawful to you is the pursuit of water-game and its use for food” (al-Maidah, 5:96) (also see al-Maidah, 5:1, 2, 94, 96). Nevertheless, it is makrooh (abominable) to hunt just for entertainment. It is haram to hunt while in Hajj and in Ihram.
COmpletely misleading translation. Nowhere in this Ayah is the prohibition of hunting for entertainment. Here is the exact translation

Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers, but forbidden to you is game from the land as long as you are in the state of ihram. And fear Allah to whom you will be gathered.

Open challenge to all proggies to bring one Ayah(no Hadith) whick explictly mention(without tafseer) that huting animals other than for food is prohibited in the Quran.

chocoman
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:37 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#103

Unread post by chocoman » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:34 am

^^^ Alright you have my attention........ Let's get this party started!!!!!

Qureshi
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 9:27 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#104

Unread post by Qureshi » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:48 am

I am not a hafiz of Quraan neither I know all hadith of rasulullah(s), but my common sense says it is wrong to kill beautiful animals for fun specially when we know they do have children and they do feel pain when their parents are killed.

I also understand MS dont make his own money but he relies on funds collected from community, so in this case every penny collected from community is a liability and it cant be wasted on hobbies and fun.

I hope my post will make sense to sensible people.

Humsafar
Posts: 2609
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#105

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:59 am

pheonix wrote: Open challenge to all proggies to bring one Ayah(no Hadith) whick explictly mention(without tafseer) that huting animals other than for food is prohibited in the Quran.
Show me any Ayah which explicitly mentions that hunting animals for fun and sport is permitted in the Quran. The Quran does not explicitly and specifically mentions all the wrongs that you should not do. Things that are not mentioned should be considered within the larger ethical framework of the Quran. And that ethical framework is one of compassion, charity and justice. There is no way, no matter how you cut it, that killing of animals for sport fits in this framework. And, of course, this Quranic principle would apply to every believer, but more so to the self-proclaimed mumineen and their all-supreme spiritual leader. Men of God do go on hunting expedition and kill innocent creatures of God.

It is instructive that abde apologists like you should invoke the Quran to justify a cruel act of your master, when in reality that same master violates every other Quranic principle of charity, compassion, simplicity and justice. Shame on you.

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#106

Unread post by Rebel » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:16 pm

How about if we all hunt the kothar and all bhaisahabs and their progeny...let's see how they react when they are being hunted. They have already hunted innocent animals and time will come when these hunters will be hunted as well.

Humsafar
Posts: 2609
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#107

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:27 pm

Until the lion tells his side of the story, the tale of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
- African Proverb

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#108

Unread post by Rebel » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:14 pm

...And these criminal bhaisahibs (hunters) need no glorificafication...let them feel how does it feel being hunted...

Bohra spring
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#109

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:55 pm

pheonix wrote: Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers, but forbidden to you is game from the land as long as you are in the state of ihram. And fear Allah to whom you will be gathered.
Your own words!

Was the elephant and lion killed a provision for the traveller ? Did they eat or need the skin to clothe them ? Before you answer check the photos of the palatial tents and ziafat ...SMS was not dying of hunger or cold.he was in Entourage .
We are not talking about a buffalo or deer that was made into a barbecue

If it fails the definition of lawful it either is unlawful or unnecessary . So you are implying it is ok. You cannot twist the situation to make it lawful.

Now we have already asked before why was it necessary for him to leave his holy busy schedule and go relaxing ? I do get tired after a busy day...I watch Fifa...or go for a drive or dinner....not pick a rifle and start shooting exotic wildlife !

Another way of looking at it ..abdes say you posted on your Facebook , Resume and business cards. Hobbies Wildlife Hunter ......who will have fewer friends of non bohra! Would you employ such a person ? Is that a character and reputation worth having or admiring , Yet you have entrusted such a person to take you to heaven .

Don't you see how insulting and embarrassing it is. I can understand emotionally you have no choice but to defend his error of judgement and lifestyle choices.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#110

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:06 pm

Aali Qadr Mufaddal Mola ye je ajab shaan thi Haathi ne shahid kidho ane jannat pohchavi didho e haathi na Bairo White Rida pehni ne Africa na jungle ma ek maqsoos jagah par Iddat ma besva no irado kidho che. Mumin bairao ne iltimas che ke jald si jald Haathi na bairo ne taziyat aapi ne sawab ma shaamil thai.

Image

james
Posts: 598
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#111

Unread post by james » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:38 am

Humsafar wrote:
pheonix wrote: Open challenge to all proggies to bring one Ayah(no Hadith) whick explictly mention(without tafseer) that huting animals other than for food is prohibited in the Quran.
Show me any Ayah which explicitly mentions that hunting animals for fun and sport is permitted in the Quran. The Quran does not explicitly and specifically mentions all the wrongs that you should not do. Things that are not mentioned should be considered within the larger ethical framework of the Quran. And that ethical framework is one of compassion, charity and justice. There is no way, no matter how you cut it, that killing of animals for sport fits in this framework. And, of course, this Quranic principle would apply to every believer, but more so to the self-proclaimed mumineen and their all-supreme spiritual leader. Men of God do go on hunting expedition and kill innocent creatures of God.

It is instructive that abde apologists like you should invoke the Quran to justify a cruel act of your master, when in reality that same master violates every other Quranic principle of charity, compassion, simplicity and justice. Shame on you.
Do away with your presumptions.Cite words of the 53rd Dai TUS or 52nd Dai RA which state "they hunted/hunt animals for fun and sport."

james
Posts: 598
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#112

Unread post by james » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:47 am

pheonix wrote:
Open challenge to all proggies to bring one Ayah(no Hadith) whick explictly mention(without tafseer) that huting animals other than for food is prohibited in the Quran.
The do-gooders fail to take in account other several reasons exist for killing animals.They get killed for clothing industry,around 50 million each year.These naive people should join PETA and while they are at it,completely stop consuming meat and other animal products.

SBM
Posts: 6507
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#113

Unread post by SBM » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:21 am

^
James
Read the reply by Bohra Spring
As per your defense thousand of animals get killed for clothing so NOW NEW DRESS CODE FOR BOHRAS IS GOING TO BE THE SKIN OF HAATHI
that is going to be a problem since Abdes are very thin skinned people and if they start wearing Elephant;s skin then Kothari Goons will not be able to skin them anymore. :)

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#114

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:41 pm

HAATHI DOING "REVERSE" SAJDA TO MUFFY BEFORE BEING SHOT BY HIM !! :D :D

Image

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#115

Unread post by Rebel » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:12 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:HAATHI DOING "REVERSE" SAJDA TO MUFFY BEFORE BEING SHOT BY HIM !! :D :D

Image
You got a knack to me smile...in fact, all animals including lions, tigers, etc etc would perform sajda tus shuker for being shot dead by a great con man who poses himself to be a leader of some million people most of them are dumb idiots.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#116

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:32 am

Botswana and Zambia ban trophy hunting

Shocking declines in wildlife populations in northern Botswana 0ver the last 15-20 years has encouraged government to halt issuance of hunting licenses from January 2013, effectively banning all forms of hunting by 2014. This has been hailed by local conservationists and tourism operators as a visionary move by the President of Botswana, Lieutenant General Ian Khama, who sees the lasting legacy of being one of the only African countries left with healthy wildlife populations at the end of this decade. Hunting and photographic safari operations cannot operate alongside each other, as the latter need to habituate wildlife to game-viewer vehicles and people on foot. Hunting operations nearby makes wildlife viewing very difficult and sometimes quite dangerous.


The Botswana Environmental Ministry explains that: ”The shooting of wild game for sport and trophies is no longer compatible with our commitment to preserve local fauna.”

This move has ostracized the professional hunting community in Botswana and polarized the local safari industry. Many professional hunters may have to seek alternative employment and then have to turn to poaching. Botswana will continue issuing “special game licences” for traditional hunting by local communities (e.g San and baYei) within designated wildlife management areas. Botswana government must be ready for a reaction by poachers and unemployed hunters.



Zambia is also taking the threat of further declines in wildlife numbers very seriously. Last year, newly-elected Zambian President, Michael Sata, dissolved the board of the Zambian Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), stating that Zambia would halt the syndicates that have dominated their hunting industry for decades. Earlier this month, The Times of Zambia reported that hunting had been banned in 19 Game Management Areas in Zambia for a period of one year.


The Zambian Minister of Tourism and Arts, Sylvia Masebo, also closed all leopard, lion and elephant hunting across the country, basing her decision on corruption and malpractice between hunting operators and government departments.

She also fired the Director-General of the ZAWA and launched an in-depth criminal investigation of ZAWA.



http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com ... nd-zambia/

Rebel
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Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#117

Unread post by Rebel » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:16 am

seeker110 wrote:If only your Dai would stop indulging in haram activities. There is more stuff going to be coming up. if you do believe he is next to God than just request him to destroy the networks.
Well said, if the MS and his gang does such shameful activities he is bound to incriminated and attacked for his inhuman acts. Why ask people to stop adversitement of his crimes against innocent humans and animals alike.

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#118

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:01 pm

Br Pheonix,
I would want to answer that or you may end up believing that since there is no ayah , it is permissible to hunt.
pheonix wrote: bring one Ayah(no Hadith) whick explictly mention(without tafseer) that huting animals other than for food is prohibited in the Quran.
Yes, there is no ayah explicitly mentioning that hunting for sport is prohibited except if done for food.
However, there exists an ayah that commands us to obey the Prophet (pbuh).
And as you may be aware, hunting for sport is prohibited as per the Prophet (pbuh).
We try to follow the sunnah as much as it is possible for us to do so. In fact, we follow very little .Now, one can understand if is not followed by people like you and me but the same cannot be said for a religious/spiritual leader. He is least likely to not follow the Prophet's (pbuh) sayings. He is liable and bound to follow everything that is mentioned in the sunnah and for this reason he cannot endorse such an act.


As far as the Qur'an is concerned, it is not explicitly mentioned that hunting is prohibited, but at the same time, it is not explicitly mentioned that it is permitted.
Please understand that not everything is explicitly mentioned in the Holy Qur'an.
We need to unravel the natural implications of a verse.
Only certain acts that are really required of a Muslim are mentioned explicitly.
Example, eating of pork is strictly prohibited and therefore explicitly mentioned (we have ayah for this).
Shirk is explicitly mentioned. etc.
No explicit mention does not imply that it is permitted.


You could also look at it this way: Elephant is not explicitly mentioned as haram but then it is neither mentioned as halal. It is Makrooh (discouraged).
The verse that you have mentioned in your post above , considers lawful food (halal food). So it can be said that an elephant is not included in this verse.
Since hunting is permitted only for a just cause (food) and because an elephant is not amongst lawful food, it would imply that it was hunted for a purpose other than food.

Somebody told me that "may be he (Maula) himself would not have consumed it but he would have distributed its meat to other poor people, so the purpose of hunting was for food, nothing bad about it". Don't you think that is lame? In my opinion, it would have been a more just cause if the money spent on hunting as well as the fine paid later was utilized for the poor or distributed to them directly.The amount spent on hunting was not less than $30k.
(Also, who eats an elephant anyway!)

Also, you must be aware that the species of elephant that is reported to have been hunted is one of the most endangered species. Hunting in that case becomes forbidden (both legally and religiously) as it would cause the species to become extinct.

I am yet to see a pic where Maula poses with the elephant that was hunted (at least I haven't seen it as yet).
The reason is that, not only is the act legally prohibited but also that it is religiously prohibited.
May be, a religious leader claiming to become the next Dai, may not want to be seen doing activities that are religiously prohibited.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#119

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:35 pm

Oh for godssakes Ummul Bani. You have seen the man's picture with a gun in one hand and a dead lion at his feet. So we have already established that he hunts for sport like some jerk with delusions of kingliness. So it is irrelevant whether you saw his picture with this particular dead elephant. Maybe he did not kill this one but if he killed a lion and makes frequent trips to Africa, welllll let's just make an educated guess that he has killed again and will kill again for sport. Please let the jury decide on this and move on, The man has no conscience and kills for sport and all those arguments about conservation are like forgiving an arsonist for his crime because his day job is as a fireman. My kids are losing respect for him as well and even my wife is a little subdued in her enthusiasm for his shaan with every new hunting incident. The sooner Bohras wake up to this man's Unholy behavior the better off they and their families will be.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#120

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:55 am

There are so many strong arguments and points put forward by sane free thinkers and I hope, some abdes are getting the reality and sense of reason somewhere in their heart and mind. Hunting for pleasure exposes the sadistic intent of the person. SMS and SMB derived pleasure by hunting animals from their safe comforts.
Hunting for food or consumption is a different scenario altogether. I have observed many take zabihat (the act of slaughtering) as a matter of fun and pleasure. Lining up to see the slaughter with some sort of enthusiasm, men, women, children, it is a disturbing hidden mentality or sadism.
Islam prohibits to express such pleasure at the slaughter, that is why intention In our hearts are very important to make the slaughter “halal” or “haram” even if we are slaughtering a “goat”. The foremost intentions shall be of “hamd” (thanks to Allah) for povisions and compassion towards the animal who is going to be sacrificed, thereafter the slaughter shall be a humble activity. It shall be done with dignity and seclusion only with required professionals. No need to make a show of it. Keeps kids and other audience away.
Meat thus obtained must be consumed fully and not to be wasted. We see people will pick grains of rice from the “safra” but will throw chunks of meat. Also unnecessary zabihats must be avoided. In abdeism, they have started a trend akin to hindu “bali” style to do zabihats for long life, prosperity, or safeguarding wealth.

The lamest arguments put forward by few abdes of justifying hunting for conservation is hilarious and desperate efforts to cover the shameful acts of their corrupt masters. There are enough avenues in the world to pass leisure time, why do these Kothari royals choose hunting to be one ? It represents their hidden sadist, ayyash wasteful opulent mentality.

These Kothari royals must have been going for hunting trips for many years, it is the advent of information technology which is catching them with pants (ijhaar) down.