Shikar in Zambia

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#121

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:20 am

Bro unhappybohra,

You just haven't understood my post. Nevermind.

Bohra spring
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#122

Unread post by Bohra spring » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:34 am

I remember GM commenting sometime back there are stuffed animal trophies in one of the Mahals. That is why asked if STS ever hunted ? This lavish lifestyle is not recent ?

These endless discussion around merits and demerit of hunting and what the Quran has permitted or not is a waste. These guys are serial hunters who are so arrogant that they will not take advise to stop. The abdes are even bigger fools that they will defend these evil practises out of blind faith. They have lost all civility and conscience . The abdes are also to blame for funding this unholy guys addiction.

Only blunt mass media and peer pressure from non Bohras will force them to stop or abandon the evil practises . I am not superstitious but I hope the curse of the dead animals befall their prosperity and power demise.

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#123

Unread post by asad » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:37 am

Bohra spring wrote:I remember GM commenting sometime back there are stuffed animal trophies in one of the Mahals. That is why asked if STS ever hunted ? This lavish lifestyle is not recent ?

These endless discussion around merits and demerit of hunting and what the Quran has permitted or not is a waste. These guys are serial hunters who are so arrogant that they will not take advise to stop. The abdes are even bigger fools that they will defend these evil practises out of blind faith. They have lost all civility and conscience . The abdes are also to blame for funding this unholy guys addiction.

Only blunt mass media and peer pressure from non Bohras will force them to stop or abandon the evil practises . I am not superstitious but I hope the curse of the dead animals befall their prosperity and power demise.

STS was an avid hunter and has hunted down many lions in his time, I personally know people whose grandfather's have taken him with SMB numerous times for Hunting in MP India Jungles, many of them were on first name basis with STS and considered him as a close friend, families who still rich are in good books of Qasre Mawali specially Qaid Joher and SMS, but the family who have lost the money have lost the favour also with More La's family.

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#124

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:37 am

This part is misunderstood I guess. Let me quote myself,
Ummul Bani wrote: I am yet to see a pic where Maula poses with the elephant that was hunted (at least I haven't seen it as yet).
The reason is that, not only is the act legally prohibited but also that it is religiously prohibited.
May be, a religious leader claiming to become the next Dai, may not want to be seen doing activities that are religiously prohibited.
This part of my post simply means that "there is no pic for this recent hunting that has been made available to us" and that we (including me) have not seen this pic yet. The reason for this is, that the clergy would not like that the people and more importantly the court views them in a bad light. A religious leader claiming for the title of a Dai would make sure that people do not see him doing such activities or it could go against him in the court. Therefore, every effort is made on their part to refrain from circulating such pics or better yet refrain from getting clicked. Of course we have all seen pics where a tiger was hunted. But there was no court case going on at that time!!
(May be I should be a little more "explicit" next time around !! )

Bro Bohra spring,
These endless discussion around merits and demerit of hunting and what the Quran has permitted or not is a waste
I realize that some people only believe what they would like to believe. They go out of the way to even defend illegal and unethical practices. But the reason for they doing so lies in the fact that they are ignorant or they still haven't found a satisfying answer as to why they should not defend these practices. There could be many others on this forum too who are looking for an answer. You would be surprised to learn that there is an even larger number of people outside this forum who actually believe that the sport hunting was an okay thing to do.
That is exactly when quoting from the Qur'an helps because this is one source that can never be questioned and aims to provide a logical and satisfying answer.
So this is not a waste according to me.

It was necessary to ensure that the post is not misinterpreted given the importance of the topic that is being discussed.
In a way I am glad this question was raised by Br Phoenix. It has given me an opportunity to share whatever little I know.

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#125

Unread post by New » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:09 pm

Three Generations of Hunters???
Stop the Mad Mad Muffy. The animals can not, it is our duty and responsibility to stop this atrocious monster. Please, sign this petition.

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/s ... er_message

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#126

Unread post by New » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:34 pm

Gulambhai, I am calling upon you once again. Who else? You had written that there are multitude of trophies in Saify Mahel (or Saify Mazar for the poor animals). Can you please, post pictures to see how one hunter breeds another. Three generations of hunters. We can catalog the blood letting of the 3 dias and let the world view them. These ambassadors of peace, Shikari 51 (R.A.), Shikari 52 (R.A.) and finally Shikari 53 (T.U.S.).

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#127

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:41 pm

One thing is for sure with the help of this site these hunters(dai) had become more careful and will never ever post pictures of their cruelty in their site.

Poor Dai now he cannot show-off his hunting skills to brain dead abdes.

Restricting his limit from posting hunting pics is also one of the achievement made by this site.

Hello Mr. DAI are u listening? if you think u r powerful than here is a challenge, Post new pics of your hunts and show that you care a damn of what we think and write.

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#128

Unread post by New » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:15 pm

Hello frustrated bhai, whether they show off or not, the animals will keep dying. That is not our objective.vgyfvb

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#129

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:57 pm

New wrote:Can you please, post pictures to see how one hunter breeds another.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4569

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#130

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:32 am

New wrote:Hello frustrated bhai, whether they show off or not, the animals will keep dying. That is not our objective.vgyfvb
correct, what i mean to say is this site has create some sort of fear in their mind and now they have to think twice or maybe thrice to do or atleast post any unislamic/cruel activity.

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#131

Unread post by asad » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:56 am

Just because of this website we dont see any pics of SMS with the hunted Elephant.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#132

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:07 am

This website is indeed very powerful, How anyone, i mean anyone from the community can come in here anonymously and do a serious damage to this kothari higher ups.
THIS SITE IS A MENTAL FLOSS FOR QASRE ALI AND KOTHARI GOONS!

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#133

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:01 am

Ummul Bani wrote: In a way I am glad this question was raised by Br Phoenix. It has given me an opportunity to share whatever little I know.
Ok so you say that Quran has explicitly mentioned to follow the prophet, So give me one authentic Hadith from the Prophet which prohibits hunting for sport. Don't give me one about cruelty to animals, because if we are arguing on compassionate grounds than we might all as well be vegans. An animal hunted by a bullet is as humane as slaughtering in the halal way.

tasneempati
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:44 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#134

Unread post by tasneempati » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:19 am

How the hell can you equal haram to halal, inhumane to humane. I think your mind is out of balance.
pheonix wrote:
Ummul Bani wrote: In a way I am glad this question was raised by Br Phoenix. It has given me an opportunity to share whatever little I know.
Ok so you say that Quran has explicitly mentioned to follow the prophet, So give me one authentic Hadith from the Prophet which prohibits hunting for sport. Don't give me one about cruelty to animals, because if we are arguing on compassionate grounds than we might all as well be vegans. An animal hunted by a bullet is as humane as slaughtering in the halal way.

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#135

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:22 am

tasneempati wrote:How the hell can you equal haram to halal, inhumane to humane. I think your mind is out of balance.
pheonix wrote: Ok so you say that Quran has explicitly mentioned to follow the prophet, So give me one authentic Hadith from the Prophet which prohibits hunting for sport. Don't give me one about cruelty to animals, because if we are arguing on compassionate grounds than we might all as well be vegans. An animal hunted by a bullet is as humane as slaughtering in the halal way.
Bhai jaan, either argue on compassionate grounds or on religion, if you believe if its halal than everything goes, then prove that it is haram.
If you are arguing on compassionate grounds than prove that how is it any different from slaughtering animals for food.
Whenever cornered on one, you guys turn to the other point and keep going in circles.

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#136

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:37 am

animal slaughtered by halal is for food. and animal hunted by bullet is for pleasure.
this is the big difference.
first is halal and second is haram.
period.

tasneempati
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:44 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#137

Unread post by tasneempati » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:31 am

BRO PHEONIX :
It is as simple as - EARNING YOUR LIVELYHOOD BY HARD WORK IS HALAL, WHEREAS LOOTING OTHERS IS HARAM.

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#138

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:27 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:animal slaughtered by halal is for food. and animal hunted by bullet is for pleasure.
this is the big difference.
first is halal and second is haram.
period.Prove it. (From Quran and authentic hadith)
So is sex for pleasure haram and for procreation halal?

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#139

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:28 am

tasneempati wrote:BRO PHEONIX :
It is as simple as - EARNING YOUR LIVELYHOOD BY HARD WORK IS HALAL, WHEREAS LOOTING OTHERS IS HARAM.
I thought we were talking about hunting?

tasneempati
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:44 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#140

Unread post by tasneempati » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:35 am

pheonix wrote:
qutub_mamajiwala wrote:animal slaughtered by halal is for food. and animal hunted by bullet is for pleasure.
this is the big difference.
first is halal and second is haram.
period.Prove it. (From Quran and authentic hadith)
So is sex for pleasure haram and for procreation halal?
I thought we were talking about hunting?

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#141

Unread post by james » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:54 am

Ummul Bani wrote:
more importantly the court views them in a bad light. A religious leader claiming for the title of a Dai would make sure that people do not see him doing such activities or it could go against him in the court. Of course we have all seen pics where a tiger was hunted. But there was no court case going on at that time!!
Are you for real ? You think that the Judge presiding over a declaratory suit gives a shit about hunting ? You have got to be trolling.If anything,the judge ought to declare the verdict in favor of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS if he gets to see the similarities between Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS by seeing hunting pictures of both.

That is exactly when quoting from the Qur'an helps because this is one source that can never be questioned and aims to provide a logical and satisfying answer.
So this is not a waste according to me.
A terrible waste of time as you didn't quote any ayah of Quran against pheonix 's post.Instead,you went off on a tangent regarding Sunnah of Prophet SAW and didn't post any hadith to support your opinion.(A waste of time again)

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#142

Unread post by james » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:58 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:animal slaughtered by halal is for food. and animal hunted by bullet is for pleasure.
this is the big difference.
first is halal and second is haram.
period.
Look at you getting all uppity about knowing what is halal and haram. You reckon killing sheep for their wool is haram?

Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#143

Unread post by Rebel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:38 am

james wrote:
qutub_mamajiwala wrote:animal slaughtered by halal is for food. and animal hunted by bullet is for pleasure.
this is the big difference.
first is halal and second is haram.
period.
Look at you getting all uppity about knowing what is halal and haram. You reckon killing sheep for their wool is haram?
So essence what you are saying is animals killed by your Syedna for pleasure is halal...animals that adorn your syednas home with beautiful skins of lions and tigers and tusks of elephants are all halal....lol..I guess he need change too, after hunting his zombie ghulam followers, he needs to to hunt innocent and beautiful creatures for fun....

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#144

Unread post by way2go » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:58 am

james wrote:
qutub_mamajiwala wrote:animal slaughtered by halal is for food. and animal hunted by bullet is for pleasure.
this is the big difference.
first is halal and second is haram.
period.
Look at you getting all uppity about knowing what is halal and haram. You reckon killing sheep for their wool is haram?
A sheep is sheared not killed for it's wool!!! Kindly get your general knowledge facts right!

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#145

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:16 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:
animal slaughtered by halal is for food. and animal hunted by bullet is for pleasure.
this is the big difference.
first is halal and second is haram.
period.Prove it. (From Quran and authentic hadith)

So is sex for pleasure haram and for procreation halal?

bro sex for pleasure doesnt harm anyone nor anyone is killed.
but sex for pleasure if it means to rape and harm the girl is haram
got it?

Bohra spring
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#146

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:20 am

james wrote:
Ummul Bani wrote:
more importantly the court views them in a bad light. A religious leader claiming for the title of a Dai would make sure that people do not see him doing such activities or it could go against him in the court. Of course we have all seen pics where a tiger was hunted. But there was no court case going on at that time!!
Are you for real ? You think that the Judge presiding over a declaratory suit gives a shit about hunting ? You have got to be trolling.If anything,the judge ought to declare the verdict in favor of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS if he gets to see the similarities between Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS by seeing hunting pictures of both.

That is exactly when quoting from the Qur'an helps because this is one source that can never be questioned and aims to provide a logical and satisfying answer.
So this is not a waste according to me.
A terrible waste of time as you didn't quote any ayah of Quran against pheonix 's post.Instead,you went off on a tangent regarding Sunnah of Prophet SAW and didn't post any hadith to support your opinion.(A waste of time again)
James keep off Ummalbani..seat ...jimmy seat ...happy for you yapping at my feet don't stray like a feral and stop spraying :D .

zinger
Posts: 2054
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#147

Unread post by zinger » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:28 am

@ Bohra Spring

aa gaye aakhir mein apni sahi jaat pe

Translation: So finally, you reveal your cheap mentality and true colours

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#148

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:38 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:qutub_mamajiwala wrote:
animal slaughtered by halal is for food. and animal hunted by bullet is for pleasure.
this is the big difference.
first is halal and second is haram.
period.Prove it. (From Quran and authentic hadith)

So is sex for pleasure haram and for procreation halal?

bro sex for pleasure doesnt harm anyone nor anyone is killed.
but sex for pleasure if it means to rape and harm the girl is haram
got it?
So by your logic, something which harms anyone/anything is haram and which doesn't
is halal. So why is slaughtering goats or chicken halal?

zinger
Posts: 2054
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#149

Unread post by zinger » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:42 am

my 2 cents on this...

whether it is haram or halal, i personally, morally by my personal standards see as hunting for sport wrong.

i personally feel this discussion will go nowhere because this is perhaps one of those things for which there is no answer. in case like these, i prefer to use my own discretion

Prince
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 10:08 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#150

Unread post by Prince » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:58 am

I am new to you guys , though you all sound familiar to me ...On topic i can't help wondering what would be the state of Wildlife or Animals Conservation or more precisely extinction , if every Abdes numbering a million strong would like to immaculate its infallible leader and do Khair nu Amal by shooting and hunting every animal seen/unseen in sight for garnering sawabs. We learn from our infallible leader and i am booking my tickets for Africa to do some hunting my self in the coming auspicious Month , but do i have to apply for a raza or visa first ... :roll: :roll: :lol: