Shikar in Zambia

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james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#151

Unread post by james » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:11 am

way2go wrote:
james wrote: Look at you getting all uppity about knowing what is halal and haram. You reckon killing sheep for their wool is haram?
A sheep is sheared not killed for it's wool!!! Kindly get your general knowledge facts right!
As long as we are arguing on semantics,let me tell you hundreds of thousands (If not millions) of sheep die from cold after being shorn.So basically shearing does lead them to their deaths.Capisce ?

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#152

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:42 am

Bro Pheonix,
pheonix wrote: Ok so you say that Quran has explicitly mentioned to follow the prophet, So give me one authentic Hadith from the Prophet which prohibits hunting for sport. Don't give me one about cruelty to animals, because if we are arguing on compassionate grounds than we might all as well be vegans. An animal hunted by a bullet is as humane as slaughtering in the halal way.
Before I give you the hadith, I have some questions for you as well.

1. Are you asking for the hadith to establish whether it is permitted or not permitted?
If yes, and a hadith is quoted,would you end up believing in it?
What are the chances that the source of the hadith wont be questioned?
Would you accept it or call it fabricated?
If you are to disregard it anyway, why ask for it?


2. For the sake of argument, lets suppose there is no such hadith and hunting is allowed.
In that case,which is the hadith that explicitly mentions that it is allowed?

3. Take a look at this from a different perspective.
Islam is not a religion of “blind faith” but is a religion that strongly calls on man to use his logic, reasoning and intellect. Allah in the Qur'an stresses the importance for people to think, to reason and to use their mind and intellect. On this note, lets reason if this hunting did serve some purpose.
What is to be done with the hunted animal? What is the purpose of this hunting? Was it:-

-To eat it?But then how do we know it is halal? If it is, where is it mentioned ? Can you bring us a hadith on that (since we know there is no ayah)?

-To feed the poor people there with this meat?But then why not instead donate the money used in the shikar ?

-To hunt it down because it was causing danger to humans there? How was the animal proving itself to be harmful? How was it a threat to the human life if they are already less in number and becoming extinct ?

-To hunt it down because no food was available in that area and that the hunting was the only choice available? If it is not halal, then why was it hunted? Why not hunt a halal animal instead so that it could be eaten in case no food is available?

Since the above are not the purposes, how do you justify the killing of this animal?

Therefore, this leads us to conclude that it was done purely for fun, I mean sport. No logical purpose is served here.

I am actually awaiting logical explanation on the above. Would you please do so and then I can quote you the hadith, thanks.

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#153

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:08 am

Nice explanation, but sorry to say this will go in vain.

Would only like to state "DAI can do Hunting whenever and wherever they want but it should be done only with their earned money and not with ours". This Gaib na Jannar dont they know that there are so much poverty in our community? they should work on eradicating this instead they are busy eradicating the natures gift and brain dead abdes on this forum are defending them.

I feel after few years a new book will come out which will be more reliable than QURAN and the author of that book will be our DAIS, this book will cover all the ayyashi and taxes, so in future reading this new book will be more important than Quran just like in todays scenario having Dai's photo is more compulsory than Mecca Medina.

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#154

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:13 am

very well said sister ummul bani
but i think any amount of explanation will not make them see reason, if they not choose to

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#155

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:24 am

Bhai James,
james wrote: Are you for real ? You think that the Judge presiding over a declaratory suit gives a shit about hunting ? You have got to be trolling.If anything,the judge ought to declare the verdict in favor of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS if he gets to see the similarities between Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS by seeing hunting pictures of both.
May be I am wrong.
According to you, what could be some of the reasons the pics are not made available , especially when we have always had the privilege to view the shikar pics earlier ?



James wrote:A terrible waste of time as you didn't quote any ayah of Quran against pheonix 's post.Instead,you went off on a tangent regarding Sunnah of Prophet SAW and didn't post any hadith to support your opinion.(A waste of time again)
It appears that you haven't read my post to it entirety. I'll quote it again, not a waste of time for me.
Ummul Bani wrote: Yes, there is no ayah explicitly mentioning that hunting for sport is prohibited except if done for food.
However, there exists an ayah that commands us to obey the Prophet (pbuh).
And as you may be aware, hunting for sport is prohibited as per the Prophet (pbuh).

SBM
Posts: 6442
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#156

Unread post by SBM » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:36 am

Hunting for eating purpose is allowed in islam.But there are conditions & rules for it ,which a muslim must follow.
However blood sport,NO it is not allowed in islam.

The Prophet(saw) was reported as saying:
'Do not make anything having life as a target'."
(Narrated by Ibn Abbas. Sahih Muslim

In another hadith
.The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said:
'Do not set up living creatures as a target'. (Narrated by Abdullah bin Abbas.

{Muslim Vol. 3, Hadith No. 1957. Also 'Robson'; p. 872 (Ref. No. 15).

SBM
Posts: 6442
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#157

Unread post by SBM » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:43 am

Animal Rights in Islam
By: Vanessa Bartlemus

Published: September 17, 2009
Islam is more than just a religion, it's a way of life. Because of this, Islam includes rules for its followers in all sorts of areas of life, from how to conduct business to how to dress, and this includes how to treat animals.

Islam instructs its followers to be kind to animals and show love for all living things. Islam came at a time where animals were treated very poorly and as if they had no feelings. Islam was a pioneer for animal rights. As the Quran says, "[We have not sent you (Muhammad) but as a mercy to the worlds] (21:107).

Killing animals for fun, or torturing them, is strictly forbidden in Islam. Hunting animals for sport is not allowed in Islam. Setting animals against each other, such as in cock fights, is forbidden, as is using animals for target practice. The Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) said, "There is no man who kills [even] a sparrow or anything smaller, without its deserving it, but Allah (God) will question him about it [on the judgment day]," and "Whoever is kind to the creatures of God is kind to himself." The Prophet cursed one who kills a living creature as a mere sport (as in hunting) (Muslim).

Even when slaughtering an animal for food, Islam instructs Muslims to do so humanely. The knife must be sharp so it will be quick and as painless as possible for the animal. Also, the animals being slaughtered should be kept separate from the others, so they do not see the others dying and get scared.

Kindness to animals can be a reason for one to go to heaven. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "A man saw a dog eating mud from (the severity of) thirst. So, that man took a shoe (and filled it) with water and kept on pouring the water for the dog till it quenched its thirst. So Allah approved of his deed and made him to enter Paradise."

While compassion towards animals is a reason to go to heaven, being cruel to them can be a reason for going to hell. Narrated By 'Abdullah bin 'Umar : Allah's Apostle said, "A lady was punished because of a cat which she had imprisoned till it died. She entered the (Hell) Fire because of it, for she neither gave it food nor water as she had imprisoned it, nor set it free to eat from the vermin of the earth." [Bukhari Vol.4, Book 56, #689]

The Prophet (Peace be upon him) had a pet cat named Muezza. He cared about her so much that one day when he was getting ready to go out, he found her asleep on the sleeve of his cloak. So he cut off his sleeve rather than wake her up. There was also one of the companions of the prophet who loved cats very much, and the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) nicknamed him Abu Hurairah, which means Father of Cats.

Six chapters of the Quran are named after animals: The Cow (chapter 2), The Cattle (chapter 6), The Bee (chapter 16), The Ant (chapter 27), The Spider (chapter 29), and The Elephant (chapter 105). There are numerous verses in the Quran about animals, and we are often told by God in the Quran to look at the animals as signs of his existence. Do they not look at the birds, held poised in the midst of (the air and) the sky? Nothing holds them up but (the power of) God. Verily in this are signs for those who believe. Chapter 16:79

Kindness to animals is very important in Islam. If you are not treating animals kindly, you aren't treating your fellow humans kindly. If you want to be loved by your Creator, love His creatures (At-Tirmidhi).

seeker110
Posts: 1727
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#158

Unread post by seeker110 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:00 pm

Only way to tame animals use for riding is to break its spirits. I have seen training videos of horses, it is heart breaking. Things human do to animals.
Once in Karachi I saw a donkey cart guy hug the donkey and kissing his forehead for making him some money. I have also seen bystanders beat up a man for abusing his donkey ( beating ). Strange we humans look for mercy from Allah, after all the bad things we do to his creation.

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#159

Unread post by New » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:20 pm

In the name of Grand Father, Father, Son and the holy shot
Attachments
53.jpg

taara
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:46 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#160

Unread post by taara » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:11 am

zinger wrote:my 2 cents on this...

whether it is haram or halal, i personally, morally by my personal standards see as hunting for sport wrong.

i personally feel this discussion will go nowhere because this is perhaps one of those things for which there is no answer. in case like these, i prefer to use my own discretion

Zinger Bhai,

I've only posted a couple of times on this forum, so I hope you do not mind me asking, but I'm curious how you can reconcile your own personal standards with the actions of your dai. Assuming that you believe as most bohris that the dai is infallible, how do you retain your faith when the dai's actions run counter to your moral code?

I'm genuinely curious. For me, personally, this was one of the reasons I couldn't remain a bohri. It felt like I had to do too much mental gymnastics to find justifications for things that I did not think were right.

As an aside, I hate that this forum devolves into personal attacks. I'm really just interested in respectful dialogue.

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#161

Unread post by New » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:59 pm

Sher na mathe sava sher.
The father killed lions (shers) and other animals. The son now kills lions etc and tops off with an elephant. Maula to Maula che. Now he is going for a blue whale. The largest animal ever lived on the planet. After that?

I think Maula feels very in adequate, just 1 million abdes. Shikar makes him feel Matcho Maula.

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#162

Unread post by pheonix » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:24 pm

Ummul Bani wrote:Bro Pheonix,
pheonix wrote: Ok so you say that Quran has explicitly mentioned to follow the prophet, So give me one authentic Hadith from the Prophet which prohibits hunting for sport. Don't give me one about cruelty to animals, because if we are arguing on compassionate grounds than we might all as well be vegans. An animal hunted by a bullet is as humane as slaughtering in the halal way.
Before I give you the hadith, I have some questions for you as well.

1. Are you asking for the hadith to establish whether it is permitted or not permitted?
If yes, and a hadith is quoted,would you end up believing in it?(Well frankly i won't. I would question its authenticity. That is why I initially asked you to quote something from the Quran which neither I nor you can refute)
What are the chances that the source of the hadith wont be questioned?
Would you accept it or call it fabricated?
If you are to disregard it anyway, why ask for it?


2. For the sake of argument, lets suppose there is no such hadith and hunting is allowed.
In that case,which is the hadith that explicitly mentions that it is allowed?

3. Take a look at this from a different perspective.
Islam is not a religion of “blind faith” but is a religion that strongly calls on man to use his logic, reasoning and intellect. Allah in the Qur'an stresses the importance for people to think, to reason and to use their mind and intellect. On this note, lets reason if this hunting did serve some purpose.
What is to be done with the hunted animal? What is the purpose of this hunting? Was it:-
(Well purpose is fun/tafreeh. I gave an example of sex, if you are not doing it for procreation, spilling it outside, then what purpose does it serve besides fun. Does it make it haram?)
-To eat it?But then how do we know it is halal? If it is, where is it mentioned ? Can you bring us a hadith on that (since we know there is no ayah)?

-To feed the poor people there with this meat?But then why not instead donate the money used in the shikar ?

-To hunt it down because it was causing danger to humans there? How was the animal proving itself to be harmful? How was it a threat to the human life if they are already less in number and becoming extinct ?

-To hunt it down because no food was available in that area and that the hunting was the only choice available? If it is not halal, then why was it hunted? Why not hunt a halal animal instead so that it could be eaten in case no food is available?

Since the above are not the purposes, how do you justify the killing of this animal?

Therefore, this leads us to conclude that it was done purely for fun, I mean sport. No logical purpose is served here.

I am actually awaiting logical explanation on the above. Would you please do so and then I can quote you the hadith, thanks.

true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#163

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:52 am

you stupid brainless abdes I have one question for you guys.
do you think it's ok for muffu to hunt animals for fun just because it is legal in that country?

true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#164

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:01 am

It is forbidden in Islam to treat an animal cruelly, or to kill it except as needed for food. The Prophet Muhammad often chastised his Companions who mistreated animals, and spoke to them about the need for mercy and kindness. Here are several examples of hadith which instruct Muslims about how to treat animals.
Reward for mercy: It is related from Abu Umama that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Whoever is merciful even to a sparrow, Allah will be merciful to him on the Day of Judgment."
Animals are like humans: “A good deed done to an animal is like a good deed done to a human being, while an act of cruelty to an animal is as bad as cruelty to a human being."

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#165

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:25 am

This is in response to Phoenix who said killing an elephant for fun is like having sex for fun....: yeah maybe if you s$&@3 her to death! Ask your Moula to find ways of having fun that does not involve taking the life of a majestic beast. He should be able to figure it out. He is a Moula, right?

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#166

Unread post by james » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:51 am

Before I give you the hadith, I have some questions for you as well.

1. Are you asking for the hadith to establish whether it is permitted or not permitted?
If yes, and a hadith is quoted,would you end up believing in it?
What are the chances that the source of the hadith wont be questioned?
Would you accept it or call it fabricated?
If you are to disregard it anyway, why ask for it?
It seems you are not sure about the authentication of whatever hadith you are talking about.If you are going to post from Bukhari or Muslim,then rest assured it will be dismissed on the grounds that it is not sanctioned by Bohra fiqh. If you don't believe everything written by Bukhari or Muslim,then how can you expect others to not doubt it?

Now,if you were to post from Daimul Islam or any other works of Imam AS or Duat Mutlaqeen RA,then it wouldn't be challenged.

2. For the sake of argument, lets suppose there is no such hadith and hunting is allowed.
In that case,which is the hadith that explicitly mentions that it is allowed?
Are you aware of Law of Permissibility as far as Islam is concerned ? The onus is upon you to prove that the act of killing animals is haram rather than the other way around.
3. Take a look at this from a different perspective.
Islam is not a religion of “blind faith” but is a religion that strongly calls on man to use his logic, reasoning and intellect. Allah in the Qur'an stresses the importance for people to think, to reason and to use their mind and intellect. On this note, lets reason if this hunting did serve some purpose.
What is to be done with the hunted animal? What is the purpose of this hunting? Was it:-

-To eat it?But then how do we know it is halal? If it is, where is it mentioned ? Can you bring us a hadith on that (since we know there is no ayah)?

-To feed the poor people there with this meat?But then why not instead donate the money used in the shikar ?

-To hunt it down because it was causing danger to humans there? How was the animal proving itself to be harmful? How was it a threat to the human life if they are already less in number and becoming extinct ?

-To hunt it down because no food was available in that area and that the hunting was the only choice available? If it is not halal, then why was it hunted? Why not hunt a halal animal instead so that it could be eaten in case no food is available?

Since the above are not the purposes, how do you justify the killing of this animal?
Elephant meat may have been consumed by the local tribes.Elephant hide may be tanned and used as leather.Elephant's ivory tusks fetch exorbitant value.Part of trophy fees goes towards the conservation efforts and is also used in helping the poor local people.

Tree huggers like yourself don't like to be educated that in Africa, the adage of "if it pays-it stays" applies to elephants.If Elephants are not taken as a valuable commodity,then it is killed in numbers which will dwindle the species to extinction.You only have to look at Kenya example and the rampant poaching problem it has since 1977 and compare it with conservation models of other African nations.Hunting in fixed numbers has allowed the increase in population of animals but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrow thinking.
African governments have increasingly recognized wildlife as a precious natural resource that can be managed through sustained-utilization, which is to say, hunting.
Even more telling, some African countries have tried bans on hunting. There are two examples of this: Kenya and Tanzania. Tanzania closed hunting in 1973 and reopened it in 1978 after poaching reduced its elephant population by over half. Once hunting reopened, the elephant rebounded to a current population around 125,000.
In 1977 Kenya banned hunting and has never reopened it. The costs have been staggering. According to the African Conservation Foundation, 70 percent of Kenya’s wildlife outside national parks has been poached out. Kenya’s elephants fared even worse: between 1979 and 1989, the elephant population fell from 130,000 to 17,000.
http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/ ... n-wildlife

true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#167

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:12 am

james wrote:
Before I give you the hadith, I have some questions for you as well.

1. Are you asking for the hadith to establish whether it is permitted or not permitted?
If yes, and a hadith is quoted,would you end up believing in it?
What are the chances that the source of the hadith wont be questioned?
Would you accept it or call it fabricated?
If you are to disregard it anyway, why ask for it?
It seems you are not sure about the authentication of whatever hadith you are talking about.If you are going to post from Bukhari or Muslim,then rest assured it will be dismissed on the grounds that it is not sanctioned by Bohra fiqh. If you don't believe everything written by Bukhari or Muslim,then how can you expect others to not doubt it?

Now,if you were to post from Daimul Islam or any other works of Imam AS or Duat Mutlaqeen RA,then it wouldn't be challenged.

2. For the sake of argument, lets suppose there is no such hadith and hunting is allowed.
In that case,which is the hadith that explicitly mentions that it is allowed?
Are you aware of Law of Permissibility as far as Islam is concerned ? The onus is upon you to prove that the act of killing animals is haram rather than the other way around.
3. Take a look at this from a different perspective.
Islam is not a religion of “blind faith” but is a religion that strongly calls on man to use his logic, reasoning and intellect. Allah in the Qur'an stresses the importance for people to think, to reason and to use their mind and intellect. On this note, lets reason if this hunting did serve some purpose.
What is to be done with the hunted animal? What is the purpose of this hunting? Was it:-

-To eat it?But then how do we know it is halal? If it is, where is it mentioned ? Can you bring us a hadith on that (since we know there is no ayah)?

-To feed the poor people there with this meat?But then why not instead donate the money used in the shikar ?

-To hunt it down because it was causing danger to humans there? How was the animal proving itself to be harmful? How was it a threat to the human life if they are already less in number and becoming extinct ?

-To hunt it down because no food was available in that area and that the hunting was the only choice available? If it is not halal, then why was it hunted? Why not hunt a halal animal instead so that it could be eaten in case no food is available?

Since the above are not the purposes, how do you justify the killing of this animal?
Elephant meat may have been consumed by the local tribes.Elephant hide may be tanned and used as leather.Elephant's ivory tusks fetch exorbitant value.Part of trophy fees goes towards the conservation efforts and is also used in helping the poor local people.

Tree huggers like yourself don't like to be educated that in Africa, the adage of "if it pays-it stays" applies to elephants.If Elephants are not taken as a valuable commodity,then it is killed in numbers which will dwindle the species to extinction.You only have to look at Kenya example and the rampant poaching problem it has since 1977 and compare it with conservation models of other African nations.Hunting in fixed numbers has allowed the increase in population of animals but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrow thinking.
African governments have increasingly recognized wildlife as a precious natural resource that can be managed through sustained-utilization, which is to say, hunting.
Even more telling, some African countries have tried bans on hunting. There are two examples of this: Kenya and Tanzania. Tanzania closed hunting in 1973 and reopened it in 1978 after poaching reduced its elephant population by over half. Once hunting reopened, the elephant rebounded to a current population around 125,000.
In 1977 Kenya banned hunting and has never reopened it. The costs have been staggering. According to the African Conservation Foundation, 70 percent of Kenya’s wildlife outside national parks has been poached out. Kenya’s elephants fared even worse: between 1979 and 1989, the elephant population fell from 130,000 to 17,000.
http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/ ... n-wildlife
The Prophet (PBUH) did not approve of hurting animals needlessly and condemned those who did. The following excerpts are taken from Sunan An Nasai: The Prophet (PBUH) stated, "If someone kills a sparrow for sport, the sparrow will cry out on the Day of Judgment, 'O Lord! That person killed me in vain! He did not kill me for any useful purpose.'" The Prophet (PBUH) also stated, "Whoever kills a sparrow or anything bigger than that without a just cause, God will hold him accountable on the Day of Judgment."

This hadith shows us that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) opposed the unnecessary imprisonment, torture, or killing of any animal. The Prophet (PBUH) stated, "Fear Allah in your treatment of animals" (Abu Dawud). Very often, as mentioned in hadith, kindness shown to animals is the deciding factor in a person's fate. "Allah's Apostle said, 'A woman was tortured and was put in Hell because of a cat which she had kept locked till it died of hunger.' Allah's Apostle further said, (Allah knows better) Allah said (to the woman), 'You neither fed it nor watered when you locked it up, nor did you set it free to eat the insects of the Earth'" (Bukhari).

so here you go james the braindead abde.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#168

Unread post by james » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:47 am

true islam wrote:The Prophet (PBUH) did not approve of hurting animals needlessly and condemned those who did. The following excerpts are taken from Sunan An Nasai: The Prophet (PBUH) stated, "If someone kills a sparrow for sport, the sparrow will cry out on the Day of Judgment, 'O Lord! That person killed me in vain! He did not kill me for any useful purpose.'" The Prophet (PBUH) also stated, "Whoever kills a sparrow or anything bigger than that without a just cause, God will hold him accountable on the Day of Judgment."
Troll,

First and foremost provide the link of narrators of the above alleged hadith posted by you.
This will aid you :

http://sunnah.com/nasai/

Also,read this and weep.

alim bin 'Abdullah narrated that his father said:
"I heard the Messenger of Allah raise his voice with the command to kill dogs. All dogs were to be killed except dogs used for hunting or herding livestock."
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)


What have you got to say about the above ?

true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#169

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:53 am

james wrote:
true islam wrote:The Prophet (PBUH) did not approve of hurting animals needlessly and condemned those who did. The following excerpts are taken from Sunan An Nasai: The Prophet (PBUH) stated, "If someone kills a sparrow for sport, the sparrow will cry out on the Day of Judgment, 'O Lord! That person killed me in vain! He did not kill me for any useful purpose.'" The Prophet (PBUH) also stated, "Whoever kills a sparrow or anything bigger than that without a just cause, God will hold him accountable on the Day of Judgment."
Troll,

First and foremost provide the link of narrators of the above alleged hadith posted by you.
This will aid you :

http://sunnah.com/nasai/

Also,read this and weep.

alim bin 'Abdullah narrated that his father said:
"I heard the Messenger of Allah raise his voice with the command to kill dogs. All dogs were to be killed except dogs used for hunting or herding livestock."
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)


What have you got to say about the above ?
james you idiot, read the Hadith in its actual full contex
The dogs that were to be killed were black wild dogs that use to come down from the hills. They had rabies and were a danger to the people. This was the only commandment. It was not some universal rule about killing all dogs.
In fact, if this were the case, dogs wouldn't be allowed for hunting in Islam or for protection/pets.

now you weep

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#170

Unread post by james » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:57 am

true islam wrote: james you idiot, read the Hadith in its actual full contex
The dogs that were to be killed were black wild dogs that use to come down from the hills. They had rabies and were a danger to the people. This was the only commandment. It was not some universal rule about killing all dogs.
In fact, if this were the case, dogs wouldn't be allowed for hunting in Islam or for protection/pets.

now you weep
Really ?

Maimunah, the wife of the Prophet narrated:
"The Messenger of Allah was upset one morning and Maimunah said to him: "O Messenger of Allah, you look upset today., He said: 'Jibril, peace be upon him, had promised to meet me last night but he did not come, and by Allah, he never failed to keep an appointment,; The day passed, then he thought of a puppy that was beneath a table of ours. He ordered that it be taken out, and then he took some water In his hand and sprinkled it over the place where it had been. That evening, Jibril, peace be upon him, came and met him. The Messenger of Allah said to him: 'You [promised to meet me last night,; He said: 'Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture,; the next day the Messenger of Allah Commanded that dogs be killed."
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)

Stop spinning.

true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#171

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:08 am

The killing of dogs is not something to be implemented today. It was only there for a particular point in time. The Prophet ordered the killing of these rabid dogs, there were no rabbi shots back then. However, the question still remains. Why did the Prophet order the killing of dogs for a particular point in time? The wisdom for it is unknown. This is just a matter of faith and belief.

true islam
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Re: Shikar in Zambia

#172

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:13 am

james wrote:
true islam wrote: james you idiot, read the Hadith in its actual full contex
The dogs that were to be killed were black wild dogs that use to come down from the hills. They had rabies and were a danger to the people. This was the only commandment. It was not some universal rule about killing all dogs.
In fact, if this were the case, dogs wouldn't be allowed for hunting in Islam or for protection/pets.

now you weep
Really ?

Maimunah, the wife of the Prophet narrated:
"The Messenger of Allah was upset one morning and Maimunah said to him: "O Messenger of Allah, you look upset today., He said: 'Jibril, peace be upon him, had promised to meet me last night but he did not come, and by Allah, he never failed to keep an appointment,; The day passed, then he thought of a puppy that was beneath a table of ours. He ordered that it be taken out, and then he took some water In his hand and sprinkled it over the place where it had been. That evening, Jibril, peace be upon him, came and met him. The Messenger of Allah said to him: 'You [promised to meet me last night,; He said: 'Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture,; the next day the Messenger of Allah Commanded that dogs be killed."
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)

Stop spinning.
"Regarding killing dogs, the Hadith is authentic and quoted in numerous books of Ahaadith. In the pre-Islamic era, dogs were an inseparable part of the Arabs. The negative instincts of dogs have crept into their lives. Rasulullah came to reform them and in order to achieve that, he had to separate them from the inseparable, that is, dogs. He had to create a resentment of dogs in their hearts by emphasising in strongest terms like killing. He also ordered to wash the utensils seven times from which a dog drank.

"After the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu ?nhu) understood the order and resented dogs, separated them from their daily activities, he said [= he made it understood], 'I have no problem with dogs'. He granted leniency in washing the utensils from 7 times to 3 times. After all, using hunting dogs is permissible and [dogs are] mentioned in the Qurân.

james
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Re: Shikar in Zambia

#173

Unread post by james » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:15 am

true islam wrote:The killing of dogs is not something to be implemented today. It was only there for a particular point in time. The Prophet ordered the killing of these rabid dogs, there were no rabbi shots back then. However, the question still remains. Why did the Prophet order the killing of dogs for a particular point in time? The wisdom for it is unknown. This is just a matter of faith and belief.
Making it up as you go along doesn't wash here.Please highlight "particular point in time" in the hadith posted.While you're at it,also point towards the use of the word "rabid" in the hadith.

Whatever happened to you being an animal lover ? You're one weak and pathetic creature.

true islam
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#174

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:20 am

. why would you think that prophet muhammad (pbuh) would order the killing of dogs for no reason as this goes against what he and the quran say about animals. the reason he said to kill dogs was simple: they had rabies.
your resorting to insults proves that I have cornered you and you have nothing logical to say that's why you resort to insulting me.

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#175

Unread post by james » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:24 am

true islam wrote:
james wrote: Really ?

Maimunah, the wife of the Prophet narrated:
"The Messenger of Allah was upset one morning and Maimunah said to him: "O Messenger of Allah, you look upset today., He said: 'Jibril, peace be upon him, had promised to meet me last night but he did not come, and by Allah, he never failed to keep an appointment,; The day passed, then he thought of a puppy that was beneath a table of ours. He ordered that it be taken out, and then he took some water In his hand and sprinkled it over the place where it had been. That evening, Jibril, peace be upon him, came and met him. The Messenger of Allah said to him: 'You [promised to meet me last night,; He said: 'Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture,; the next day the Messenger of Allah Commanded that dogs be killed."
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)

Stop spinning.
"Regarding killing dogs, the Hadith is authentic and quoted in numerous books of Ahaadith. In the pre-Islamic era, dogs were an inseparable part of the Arabs. The negative instincts of dogs have crept into their lives. Rasulullah came to reform them and in order to achieve that, he had to separate them from the inseparable, that is, dogs. He had to create a resentment of dogs in their hearts by emphasising in strongest terms like killing. He also ordered to wash the utensils seven times from which a dog drank.

"After the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu ?nhu) understood the order and resented dogs, separated them from their daily activities, he said [= he made it understood], 'I have no problem with dogs'. He granted leniency in washing the utensils from 7 times to 3 times. After all, using hunting dogs is permissible and [dogs are] mentioned in the Qurân.
Stop embarrassing yourself.Are you saying Dogs were commanded to be killed to prevent people from negative influence of them and to separate them (Whatever that means) whilst at the same time the hunting ones were spared ? Do the hunting dogs not cast a negative influence on the respective owners ? What pills are you on ?

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#176

Unread post by james » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:29 am

true islam wrote:. why would you think that prophet muhammad (pbuh) would order the killing of dogs for no reason as this goes against what he and the quran say about animals. the reason he said to kill dogs was simple: they had rabies.
your resorting to insults proves that I have cornered you and you have nothing logical to say that's why you resort to insulting me.
james the braindead abde.
james you idiot
You should be the last one to start whining about insults.I was right to address you as a "Troll" in my first reply towards you.

You invent fanciful stories of dogs having rabies when it has already been shown to you that there is a hadith in Sunan an Nasai which states Gabriel AS doesn't step in houses which have dogs and so the Prophet SAW commanded to kill all dogs except for the hunting ones. Where is the mention of inflicted dogs descending from valleys mentioned in the ahadith ?

true islam
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#177

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:36 am

those. were two different instances. in the first Hadith you quoted he ordered to kill the dogs because they were wild and had rabies.

true islam
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#178

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:37 am

how do hunting dogs cast a negative impact on their owners? they help them catch food. the negative aspects are about the stray wild dogs who had rabies and would bite people

true islam
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#179

Unread post by true islam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:42 am

let's say that for the sake of are ment it is ok to kill dogs, but that is not what muffu has done. he has killed an elephant for fun, which is wrong. now are you going to quote an Hadith that says it's ok to kill elephants?

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Shikar in Zambia

#180

Unread post by james » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:42 am

true islam wrote:those. were two different instances. in the first Hadith you quoted he ordered to kill the dogs because they were wild and had rabies.
alim bin 'Abdullah narrated that his father said:
"I heard the Messenger of Allah raise his voice with the command to kill dogs. All dogs were to be killed except dogs used for hunting or herding livestock."
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)

Please highlight the word "rabies" in the above mentioned alleged hadith.

You are now claiming Prophet SAW commanded killing of dogs twice in his lifetime as if one time was not enough. :roll:

What's stopping you from putting on "Poor Innocent Dog" act ? :mrgreen: