Inter Community Marriage & repercussions of Nikah Ceremony

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rayofhope
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:41 am

Inter Community Marriage & repercussions of Nikah Ceremony

#1

Unread post by rayofhope » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:41 pm

I am agnostic man, born into a faith that is not considered 'people of the book'. I intend to marry a girl who belongs to the Bohri community who is based in Mumbai along with her family. Her and my belief systems and way of life are absolutely compatible. We are not socially, financially, or spiritually dependent on any community - but her parents are.

We are trying to figure out what issues we may face as a couple or the impact on our families in the future before we decide to take the big step of marriage. On that note:

1. If I participate in a 'name-sake' nikah ceremony to keep the girls family happy, would I be obliged to indulge in any Muslim or Bohri practices post marriage? This could include, but is not limited to paying tax, appearance at mosques, signing letters of allegiance to the Dai, or any other religious, cultural or political practices. Are there any other implications of a nikah? Or would we be able to just forget about the nikah completely and continue to live life as an agnostic/atheist couple without any repercussions?

2. If I don't do a nikah and marry a Bohri girl under a civil marriage act, what exactly would the extent of the consequences on either of us, or our families be, assuming we continue to live in Mumbai? Would the girl’s family be excommunicated from the religion? Is there a chance of them facing significant pressure from their community OR from their religious leaders - mental, physical or economical?

3. Is there an alternative route? As you can imagine, this issue is the cause of great anxiety and stress for all involved - Any honest, frank and practical advice or tips for us would be really appreciated.



Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

#2

Unread post by Rebel » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:22 pm

I would suggest do nikah the bohri way and move out of mumbai and live your life with your wife happily away from the community or its influence. This will protect the parents of the girl from humiliation and persecution from the community. Unless, you desire to convert and follow the practices then you may want to live within the community's fold.



Qureshi
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 9:27 am

#3

Unread post by Qureshi » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:39 pm

this marriage is haraam according to islam and girl must understand this.

I dont care about community mess but according to Quraan unless you accept Islam with your heart and mind she should not marry you.

rest is up to you guys.

tc



Humsafar
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#4

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:32 pm

Qureshi wrote: according to Quraan unless you accept Islam with your heart and mind she should not marry you.
How many Muslims actually, in real sense accept "Islam with heart and mind." They are born into the religion and accept its tenets by conditioning - at least that's the case with the overwhelming majority of them.
As for the case at hand, yes take the misaq and do the nikah as our faith requires, and also to keep the peace with the girl's parents and also to avoid any community repercussions on them. Once you are married you can be your own, you are not obligated to be part of the community. But if the girl's parents insist that you become a practicing Bohra then I would run away far, and fast. Unless of course you love the girl more than your freedom and dignity.



Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

#5

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:32 pm

Rayofhope,

There are two situations you would need to consider here.

1. If the girl wishes to remain a Muslim, you will have to get a Nikah done for the marriage to be called as legitimate.Only a court marriage won't do.
The Nikah cannot be performed unless you convert to Islam.
After the Nikah, I don't think you will have to essentially be a part of the daily Bohra customs or activities. Neither you two nor the girl's family will be under any sort of threat or excommunication.

2. If the religion does not play a role for the two of you, then the need of a Nikah does not arise and you can marry as the court laws or whatever you deem as correct.
Here, you will encounter a few challenges going ahead.
You may be barred from attending important rituals within her family.You will most certainly not be allowed to attend her parent's funeral (or other relatives').
From what I have seen, the girl's parents may not necessarily be excommunicated as long as they are abiding with the Bohra clergy and paying the taxes!

You will need to figure out which option is best suited to you in light of the above.

Rgds
Ummul.



rayofhope
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:41 am

#6

Unread post by rayofhope » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:06 pm

Thanks for your comments Humsafar, Qureshi and Rebel. The reason I am averse to doing a nikah is because:

(1) This is technically includes conversion to Islam, which I don't want to do as I am well and truly agnostic, and I don't want to be a hypocrite or a liar or perpetuate a cycle of control & dogma by religious leaders.
(2) The girls family will NOT expect me to be a practicing Bohra even after nikah, but I am scared that I will be expected to attend religious functions or perform religious duties (sawm, hajj, jihad, salat and ESPECIALLY zakat/zakah) by the Amil or his ill-famed gang of 'gundaas' as people have mentioned on this forum (is this even true?)
(3) My family are supportive of me marrying outside the fold of my own religion and will welcome my bride into the family, but they will be seriously hurt if i renounce my own religion and THEN TAKE UP ANOTHER, even if its just for namesake.

This is why I am weighing up the consequences of NOT doing a nikah... Will the Bohra girls family really face a lot of repercussions - social, economical or PHYSICAL (again refer to Amil's gang of 'gundaas' mentioned repeatedly on this forum) if I DO NOT perform nikah for above-mentioned reasons?? Will the girl herself have to renounce her identity as a Bohra Muslim completely??



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#7

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:20 pm

rayofhope wrote:Will the Bohra girls family really face a lot of repercussions - social, economical or PHYSICAL (again refer to Amil's gang of 'gundaas' mentioned repeatedly on this forum) if I DO NOT perform nikah for above-mentioned reasons??
I don't think that the clergy will harass your would be in-laws for their daughter's action because once she is married then she will be living in your house and will be away from Bohra dogmas. Your in-laws can take a stand that their daughter married out of her own will and against their decision.
rayofhope wrote:Will the girl herself have to renounce her identity as a Bohra Muslim completely??
Yes !! Although she can take part in family functions like marriage, birthdays etc.



bohra_manus
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

#8

Unread post by bohra_manus » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:45 pm

Brother Rayofhope:
One of my female relative has been married to a Hindu boy who is also non-religious. The girls parents didn't face any repercussions from the local Amil/Jamaat so all was fine. Now that they have implemented ID cards which are scanned and required to enter any Bohra events, the girl can't attend any functions even though she still wants to hold on to her Bohra beliefs (the boy doesn't care). No body in the bohra Jamaat objects if she visits her parents with her kids even though according to the Bohra faith, these children are considered illegitimate (pardon my language). With all this well and good, one very important consideration for both of you and especially for the girl in your life:
As time goes by (say 5-10 years), you will have disagreements over matters, children etc. she may feel that she made a mistake leaving her family for you and regret the decision which will cause further friction between you two, this is evil cycle which will continue unless both of you are strong enough to not these things get in your way.
Sorry for producing the doom and gloom scenario but it comes from my observations into the life of my relative.

I wish you both lots of luck.



seeker110
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

#9

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:10 pm

Remember for death do us apart. I, for myself would like to start a new project without any limitations, whatsoever. Your new life will have some bumps in the beginning. It is a difficult time for both of you. You may rely on love conquers all and jump in, see if you can row together. Either way I hope all your challenges make you a better person.
Youn tua hote hain mohbut mei junnoon ke a'sar,. Aur tuo log bhi dewana bana detey hain................My dad said to me.



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

#10

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:47 am

There have been many Bohri girls married to non Bohris. One of my wife's cousin married a non Bohri. Her parents were "shattered" initially but came around later and accepted. The girl attends family occasions. She is not religious to come to attend mosque etc.

You can go ahead and marry without bothering about anyone as long as your parents (yours & brides) accept you. Immediate family matters IMO.

All the best



fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

#11

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:03 am

Same scenario is there in my fmly too, one of my cousin is married to sunni guy, neither she nor her fmly r facing ne hardship in any of their religious matter. In my case the girl had left the bohra fold but in some of the bohra occasion like marriage of close relative outside mumbai she come wearing our rida and his husband is also very cooperative he too wear bohra topi to attend wedding this is just to avoid any sort of gossip from that town or city.



Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

#12

Unread post by Mazakyo » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:01 am

rayofhope wrote:Thanks for your comments Humsafar, Qureshi and Rebel. The reason I am averse to doing a nikah is because:

(1) This is technically includes conversion to Islam, which I don't want to do as I am well and truly agnostic, and I don't want to be a hypocrite or a liar or perpetuate a cycle of control & dogma by religious leaders.
(2) The girls family will NOT expect me to be a practicing Bohra even after nikah, but I am scared that I will be expected to attend religious functions or perform religious duties (sawm, hajj, jihad, salat and ESPECIALLY zakat/zakah) by the Amil or his ill-famed gang of 'gundaas' as people have mentioned on this forum (is this even true?)
(3) My family are supportive of me marrying outside the fold of my own religion and will welcome my bride into the family, but they will be seriously hurt if i renounce my own religion and THEN TAKE UP ANOTHER, even if its just for namesake.

This is why I am weighing up the consequences of NOT doing a nikah... Will the Bohra girls family really face a lot of repercussions - social, economical or PHYSICAL (again refer to Amil's gang of 'gundaas' mentioned repeatedly on this forum) if I DO NOT perform nikah for above-mentioned reasons?? Will the girl herself have to renounce her identity as a Bohra Muslim completely??

Yar Umeed ki Kiran. Aap 1 ticket may 2 mazay leinay kay chakkar mein hain. Bohra bhi nahee banna aur larki bhi patani hai. 2 may say aik ka chunau kar lay bhai.



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

#13

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:47 am

Never mind the Nutjobs over here mate. Go ahead with what is best for your life. There won't be any repercussion as far as the clergy goes. If the girls parents accept you, then there is nothing to fear as far as maintaining good family ties are concerned.



Rebel
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm

#14

Unread post by Rebel » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:03 pm

rayofhope wrote:Thanks for your comments Humsafar, Qureshi and Rebel. The reason I am averse to doing a nikah is because:

(1) This is technically includes conversion to Islam, which I don't want to do as I am well and truly agnostic, and I don't want to be a hypocrite or a liar or perpetuate a cycle of control & dogma by religious leaders.
(2) The girls family will NOT expect me to be a practicing Bohra even after nikah, but I am scared that I will be expected to attend religious functions or perform religious duties (sawm, hajj, jihad, salat and ESPECIALLY zakat/zakah) by the Amil or his ill-famed gang of 'gundaas' as people have mentioned on this forum (is this even true?)
(3) My family are supportive of me marrying outside the fold of my own religion and will welcome my bride into the family, but they will be seriously hurt if i renounce my own religion and THEN TAKE UP ANOTHER, even if its just for namesake.

This is why I am weighing up the consequences of NOT doing a nikah... Will the Bohra girls family really face a lot of repercussions - social, economical or PHYSICAL (again refer to Amil's gang of 'gundaas' mentioned repeatedly on this forum) if I DO NOT perform nikah for above-mentioned reasons?? Will the girl herself have to renounce her identity as a Bohra Muslim completely??
Yes, girls parents might have to face social repercussions, they won't be excommunicated but they will have listen to all the crap from their families and other other community members. If you do nikah you would pacify the kothar and other community members. You don't need to convert yourself to be a bohra or go to functions or pay them tax every year. You just live your life with the girl you love once you are married. There is no better and happy marriage if it is true love. Move away and out of the reach of the community if you can as simple as that. If the girl herself does not want nikah to be done than it would not be much of hassle as she can tell kothar that she is not longer a practicing bohri.



Spectator
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:08 pm

#15

Unread post by Spectator » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:37 am

I agree with br. rebel. Getting Nikah done is better. It will pacify the community members to some extent. They will still talk, albeit a bit less! It will be better for the girls parents too. However, if both the girl and her parent are not bothered about Nikah then this discussion is null and void as it means they don't a hoot about what the community thinks or the repurcussions. This advice from a bohri married outside the fold. PM me if you have any questions. I am happy to share my experience. All the best.



sarab_14
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:48 pm

#16

Unread post by sarab_14 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:28 am

Hi sir need Ur help to do intercaste marriage pls help m for the same



sarab_14
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:48 pm

#17

Unread post by sarab_14 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:29 am

sarab_14 wrote:Hi sir need Ur help to do intercaste marriage pls help m for the same
I am in relation ship with a divorce girl with a child and I want to convert my self in dawoodi bohra community so please help what are the procedures for the same



sarab_14
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:48 pm

#18

Unread post by sarab_14 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:33 am

Hi sir can u help me hav th Same issue
bohra_manus wrote:Brother Rayofhope:
One of my female relative has been married to a Hindu boy who is also non-religious. The girls parents didn't face any repercussions from the local Amil/Jamaat so all was fine. Now that they have implemented ID cards which are scanned and required to enter any Bohra events, the girl can't attend any functions even though she still wants to hold on to her Bohra beliefs (the boy doesn't care). No body in the bohra Jamaat objects if she visits her parents with her kids even though according to the Bohra faith, these children are considered illegitimate (pardon my language). With all this well and good, one very important consideration for both of you and especially for the girl in your life:
As time goes by (say 5-10 years), you will have disagreements over matters, children etc. she may feel that she made a mistake leaving her family for you and regret the decision which will cause further friction between you two, this is evil cycle which will continue unless both of you are strong enough to not these things get in your way.
Sorry for producing the doom and gloom scenario but it comes

I wish you both lots of luck.



sarab_14
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:48 pm

#19

Unread post by sarab_14 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:59 pm

sarab_14 wrote:
sarab_14 wrote:Hi sir need Ur help to do intercaste marriage pls help m for the same
I am in relation ship with a divorce girl with a child and I want to convert my self in dawoodi bohra community so please help what are the procedures for the same
Sir I am a boy in relationship with bohra girl who is divorced and have a boy we want to get marry and I want to do nikah with her



sarab_14
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:48 pm

#20

Unread post by sarab_14 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:27 pm

sarab_14 wrote:
sarab_14 wrote:
I am in relation ship with a divorce girl with a child and I want to convert my self in dawoodi bohra community so please help what are the procedures for the same
Sir I am a boy in relationship with bohra girl who is divorced and have a boy we want to get marry and I want to do nikah with her
In Same case we need help



sarab_14
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:48 pm

#21

Unread post by sarab_14 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:57 am

sarab_14 wrote:
sarab_14 wrote:
Sir I am a boy in relationship with bohra girl who is divorced and have a boy we want to get marry and I want to do nikah with her
In Same case we need help
Need to discuss it in very serious note sir
Pls guide me sumthing how we can proceed for th same



SBM
Posts: 6182
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#22

Unread post by SBM » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:28 pm

^
Sarab
So go to any Qazi and get Nikkah or may be contact people at Fatemi Dawat and they may help you. May be a Progressive Amil can also perform the Niikah unless..........
if you want to be an Abde then go and dance on the tunes of Kothari Mafia and stop asking people here to help.



guy_sam2005
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:46 am

#23

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:25 am

sarab_14 wrote:
sarab_14 wrote:
Sir I am a boy in relationship with bohra girl who is divorced and have a boy we want to get marry and I want to do nikah with her
In Same case we need help
ask your partner whether she is a follower of syedna mufaddal(tus) or of khuzema qutbuddin saheb and if she wants to marry you as badly as you want she knows the procedure too.............this is not the right forum to get your answers if thats what you are looking for here