Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Nafisa
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:19 pm

Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#1

Unread post by Nafisa » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:28 pm

I am starting Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq with the help of my friends for understanding secret Knowledge of the Ismaili Tradition. I humbly request to the Admin not to disturb this thread with irrelevant and useless postings. Thanks

From Adam to Our Dawr
The Imāmat is the office of spiritual and religious leadership recognized in Shī‘ī Islam according to which the Imām is the spiritual and religious successor (waṣī) of the Prophet Muḥammad. While prophetic revelation ended with the Prophet Muḥammad, divine inspiration, spiritual authority, religious guidance, and mystical gnosis continued in the institution of Imāmat.

smā‘īlī gnosis, as articulated in the teachings of various Ismā‘īlī Muslim philosophers, sages, and Imāms, reveals the Imāmat in a universal perspective which integrates and unifies the histories, communities and theologies of many different religions. One of the sayings of the Prophet Muḥammad often quoted by Shī‘ī sources states:
“I and ‘Alī are of one light. God created my spirit and the spirit of ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib two thousand years before He created humankind. He sent ‘Alī secretly with every prophet and openly with me.”
– Prophet Muḥammad

This last is as precise a statement as could be wished for. The Muhammadan Imamate, as the esotericism of Islam, is eo ipso the esotericism of all previous prophetic religions.

The Imāmat of Shī‘ī Ismā‘īlī Islam is not only the spiritual legacy of the Prophet Muḥammad but it embodies the spiritual meaning of all the previous prophetic religions and spiritual traditions. The presence of ‘Alī ‘secretly with every Prophet’ also means that this lineage of Imāms has been in existence even before the mission of the Prophet Muḥammad:
It is impossible to think that there could not have been an Imām before Muhammad al-Mustafa. In reality, for many thousand centuries before this world and people, he was, he is at present, and will (always) be. After recognition of the Imām one must also know that there always was an Imām from the time of the creation of the world to the creation of Adam, from Adam to the Last Prophet, from the Last Prophet to this moment; that he always is, and will be, to the end of the world.

The Pre-Muhammadan Imāms
Various statements of the Prophet Muḥammad and the early Imāms illustrate how the Light (nūr) and authority (amr) of the Imāmat were transmitted among their forefathers before manifesting in the persons of the Prophet and Imām ‘Alī. This Light was passed down, from generation to generation, until it reached the historical persons of Prophet and Imām ‘Alī who inherited this Light from their respective fathers. Subsequently, the Light continued to be transmitted through the line of Shī‘ī Imāms descended from the ‘Alī:
“We were silhouettes of light until God wanted to create our form; He transformed us into a Column of Light and hurled us into Adam’s loins; He made us be transmitted through the loins of the fathers and the wombs of mothers… and when He had us reach the loins of ‘Abd al-Muṭṭalib, He divided the light in two and placed half in the loins of ‘Abdallāh and the other half in the loins of Abū Ṭālib. Amina received in her breast the half that was for me, and she brought me into the world; likewise, Fāṭima, the daughter of Asad received in her breast the half that was for ‘Alī, and brought him into the world. Then God had the column [of Light] come to me and I begot Fāṭima; likewise, He had it go to ‘Alī, and he begot al-Ḥasan and al-Ḥusayn… Thus, this light will be transmitted from Imām to Imām until the Day of Resurrection.”
- Prophet Muḥammad,

In a similar statement, the Fatimid Caliph-Imām Ma‘add al-Mu‘izz li-Dīn Allāh wrote in one of his famous letters:
“We were transferred through the chaste loins and pure and approved wombs. Whenever a loin and a womb brought us together, power and knowledge were manifest from us. This continued until our last ancestor, the best father, the chief of the messengers, the leader of the prophets, Aḥmad and Muḥammad, blessings of God be upon him and his progeny in every circle and in every assembly.”
- Imam Ma‘add Abū Tamīm al-Mu‘izz li-Dīn Allāh,

Ismā‘īlī gnosis understands the universal chain of the Prophets and the Imāms in a cyclical framework – which views the history of humankind as comprised of different periods or ‘cycles’ of history. The following verse of the Qur’ān served as the inspiration for this theory of Cyclical Time:
“It is God who created the heavens and the earth and everything between them in Six Days, then He established (Himself) upon the Throne.” - Holy Qur’ān 32:4
Each “Day” of Creation is a Cycle of one of the six major Prophetic Messengers (nātiqs): Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muḥammad. A Cycle lasts for several hundred years (ranging between five hundred and fifteen hundred years) during which the Prophet’s community is guided by his Summons, Scripture and religious Law (sharī’ah):
“The Cycle of every prophet is his ‘day’. The time in which we are now – I mean, the time after the Emissary, the Chosen, was sent forth up to the time of the Resurrection – is the ‘day’ of our Emissary. The days of Moses, Jesus, and the other prophets are past… God the Exalted created the lifetime of this world during the span of the prophethood of six prophets, each of whom had his cycle (dawr) and his summons (da‘wat) in his ‘day’ (rūz), and during his day the Emissary summoned people to God… If people were to examine this interpretation, each prophetic community would occupy the position which it indeed occupies: the Christians established on the fifth day, the Jews on the fourth day, the Mazdeans on the third day.”
- Sayyidnā Nāsir-i Khusraw,

The institution of Imāmat was present during these Prophetic Cycles and the pre-Muḥammadan Imāms (i.e. ‘Alī sent secretly) transmitted the gnosis and esoteric interpretation (ta’wīl) of the Scripture and the Law to the spiritual initiates of the Prophet’s community. For example, each of the six Prophets was accompanied by an Imām who served as his waṣī (legatee): Seth (with Adam), Shem (with Noah), Ishmael (with Abraham), Aaron (with Moses), James (with Jesus) and ‘Alī (with Muhammad). The lineage of Imāms continued from Cycle to Cycle, safeguarding and uphold the esoteric meaning of the prophetic message. The Muḥammadan Revelation was the last of the prophetic revelations and was succeeded by the Muḥammadan Imāmat in the person of Imām ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib and the Imāms of his progeny (who are also descendants of the Prophet Muḥammad) to the present day. The Qur’ān alludes to this inter-prophetic lineage of Imāms in the following Ayah:
“Verily God chose Adam and Noah and the progeny of Abraham and the progeny of ‘Imran above all the worlds. Direct descendents, one after the other, and God is the Hearing, the Knowing.” - Holy Qur’ān 3:33-34
The esoteric meaning and the gnosis of all revelations and traditions has been preserved and transmitted through an uninterrupted chain of Imāms which stems from the Prophet Adam and continues with present Imām.

The Seventh Cycle is the Cycle of Resurrection (dawr al-qiyāmah) in which the esoteric interpretation (ta’wīl) of all prophetic revelations is revealed. In this final Cycle, knowledge (‘ilm), gnosis and spiritual truths (haqā’iq) become available to humanity at large and the people of the world become unified.
“The interpretation of ‘establishing Himself upon the Throne’ is the execution of the command of God by the Qā’im al-Qiyāmat (‘Master of the Resurrection’), which is the Throne of God and which will be manifest after his six days have passed… ‘Tomorrow’ is the cycle to come. That ‘tomorrow’ in which the wise take such delight is the day of True Resurrrection, when the shadows of ignorance will be lifted from humanity by the light of His knowledge, just as God says, ‘The earth will be illumined by the light of its Lord’.”
- Sayyidnā Nāsir-i Khusraw,

The Pre-Adamic Imāms
The Seven Cycles (“The Seven Days”) all together form a Major Cycle (“The Week”) of seven thousand years which began with the Prophet Adam – the Adam of the Qur’ān and the Bible. However, Cyclical History as envisioned in Ismā‘īlī gnosis extends even before this Adam – who was but merely the first Prophet of the current Major Cycle and not the first human being in an absolute sense. The Prophet Adam himself was preceded by a countless number of Cycles during which the lineage of Imāms was also present (see Henry Corbin, Cyclical Times and Ismaili Gnosis).

Various Ismā‘īlī texts document an entire lineage of pre-Adamic Imāms – the Imāms who lived on earth before the Prophet Adam of the Bible and Qur’an. Several of these pre-Adamic Imāms include figures from Indian and Vedic traditions such as Shri Rāma and Shri Krishna – whom the Ismā‘īlī traditions, particular those of South Asia, considered to be the Imāms of the ancient periods. These lists are found in Aala Kutub al Haqaiq.

How far back into history does the Imāmat extend? Ismā‘īlī gnosis describes the origins of the Imāmat with the first human being on earth – who is referred to as the “Universal Adam” (al-Adam al-Kull). This Adam, however, is different from the Prophet Adam described in Genesis and the Qur’ān. The Universal Adam was without sin or impurity and established primordial institution of the Imāmat on earth, inaugurating the “Cycle of Cycles”. He and his companions established the first “Call” (da’wah) to gnosis – an esoteric and intellectual Call which has reverberated from Cycle to Cycle and continues into the present Cycle:
“The first Adam founded the ‘Noble Convocation’ (al-da’wah al-sharifah) in this world; he it was who established the hierarchy of the hierocosmos (‘alam al-din), which symbolizes both with that of the Pleroma and with that of the macrocosm… In short, he was the founder of the permanent esoteric hierarchy, uninterrupted from cycle to cycle, and from period to period in each cycle, up to and since Islam.”

The Imām al-Mu‘izz, in paying tribute and invoking blessings upon his ancestors, makes specific reference to the Imāms of the ‘bygone periods and ages’.
“The customs of the Speaking-Prophets (nuṭuqā’), the ways of the Imāms and Prophets, the paths of the Messengers and Legatees (awṣiyā’), those of us who have passed before and those who shall come, blessings of God be upon us and upon our ancestors, the possessors of authority and discernment, in the preceding epochs and eras, and bygone periods and ages, when they carried out the rules of God and stood up for the order of God.”
- Imam Ma‘add Abū Tamīm al-Mu‘izz li-Dīn Allāh,

The below Chart (created by Ismā‘īlī Gnosis) depicts the various Cycles while highlighting the Prophets, the Imāms, the Scriptures, and the community of each Cycle.

The Universal Imāmat
The existence and influence of the Imāms upon a plurality of traditions, civilizations and communities displays the universality of the Imāmat. The Imāmat is not only an institution of Muslim leadership, but its scope and mission extends to people all faiths.
Today the present Imām - is the inheritor and guardian of the universal gnosis which emanates from all religious and spiritual traditions – including the Adamic, Semitic, Abrahamic, Jewish, Christian and Islamic revelations.
“The first Imam, in a conversation with his disciple Kumayl, makes precise reference to the succession of God’s Sages who, from century to century, remain largely unknown to the majority of men. This was later to be known as silsilat al-‘irfan, the ‘succession of gnosis’; and it consists of all those who, from the time of Seth, the son of Adam, down to the Muhammadan Imams, and including all those who acknowledge them as Guides, have been transmitters of the esoteric aspect of eternal prophecy.”

Notes to Chart
• The dates before Jesus are approximate and subject to debate and speculation. The events of Mahābharata War have been dated by Dr. Padmakar Vishnu Vartak (see link) to 5,561 BC which was before the biblical timeline of Genesis (which began around 4,000 BC) and the birth of Prophet Adam in India. Similarly, the genealogies found in Ismā‘īlī sources place Shri Rāma and Shri Krishna before the Seth and the Imams of the Adamic Cycle. Shri Budh was the last Imām of the pre-Adamic Cycle who initiated the Cycle of Adam and appointed Adam as the first Prophet. In the Persian and Arabic traditions, he is referred to as the Resurrector (qā’im) Imām Hunayd and should not be confused with the founder of Buddhism who lived much later.

• Each Cycle began with a major Prophet (Nāṭiq) who was accompanied by an Imām called the Asās or Waṣī. The Prophet of each Cycle revealed a Scripture and a religious Law and established a unique religious community. The Asās-Imām succeeded the Prophet as the interpreter of the revelation and the leader of the community. The Imāms succeeded one another in direct lineal descent except in the case where the Prophet emerged from their line (in the case of Adam, Noah, and Abraham) in which the permanent Imāmat was transmitted from grandfather to grandson (e.g. from Lamech, father of Noah, to Shem, son of Noah). The genealogy and timeline of the biblical figures is found in the Bible. From a strictly historical point of view, the names in the genealogy before the period of Moses may actually stand for entire tribes or generations, in which case these genealogies must be taken symbolically and not literally. Nevertheless, they serve to illustrate the underlying theme which is the presence of the Imāmat in every epoch and period.

• After Prophet Abraham, the institution of Imāmat continued in two parallel lineages – the Permanent Imāms descended from Ismā‘īl and the Entrusted Imāms descended from Isaac, with the latter including many of the well-known Isrā‘īlite Prophets and Imāms (including Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, David, Solomon, John, Jesus, James). The Entrusted Imāms of the Isrā‘īlite line continued until the Cycle of Prophet Muhammad. The lineage of Permanent Imāms continued in a hereditary succession through the line of Ismā‘īl (including Mawlānā ’Adnān and Mawlānā Khuzaymah) to the time of the Prophet Muḥammad and continues thereafter in the line of Imām ‘Ali ibn Abī Ṭālib down to Imām of the current era.
• The Ismā‘īli texts named Simon Peter (Shamun al-Safa) as the Imām succeeding Jesus. However, contemporary research shows that Jesus’ brother – James the Just (Ya’qūb al-Ṣādiq) – was his actual successor.

• The Cycle before Adam (termed as “Pre-Adamic”) was a Cycle of Resurrection in which humankind enjoyed an exalted level of gnosis, spirituality and ethics. The Qur’ān refers to Pre-Adamic humanity as being “one community” in the verse: “Mankind was one community and God raised Prophets as bearers of good news and as warners and revealed to them the Book with Truth that it may judge between mankind concerning that in which they differed” (Qur’ān 2:213). But humanity began to turn away from the primordial religion of tawḥīd and began to differ amongst themselves which prompts the beginning of the Cycle of Adam and the sending of the Prophets. With the coming of the Seventh Cycle – the Resurrection – humanity is judged and returns to the state of “one community”.

• The initiator of the Seventh Cycle, the Cycle of Resurrection, is the Lord of Resurrection (Qā’im al-Qiyāmah) who does not bring any new prophetic message but reveals the esoteric meaning or universal ta’wīl of all the previous revelations. The Imām directly preceding the Qā’im is his Proof (hujjah) or Gate (bāb) and will be the most exalted Imām of the Six Cycles.

true_bohra
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#2

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:14 am

I appreciate you for the post and the valuable information that you have put but there are people on forum who does not believe in taweel and haqaaiq.

I think this is your first post which made me read it full. I request you to maintain same dignity in your other post also and keep yourself away from abuses and vicious tone.

zinger
Posts: 1970
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#3

Unread post by zinger » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:16 am

true_bohra wrote:I appreciate you for the post and the valuable information that you have put but there are people on forum who does not believe in taweel and haqaaiq.

I think this is your first post which made me read it full. I request you to maintain same dignity in your other post also and keep yourself away from abuses and vicious tone.

i second you

kseeker
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#4

Unread post by kseeker » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:16 am

thank you very much for such a useful post.. we need more of this rather than rants about the two liars claiming dai-ship...

I was always under the impression that the Qaim is the most exalted imam...this is the first time i have read that the Hujjaj is the exalted one....kindly post more of these...

think
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#5

Unread post by think » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:22 am

Read the post three times to get an understanding. Definitely an eye opener for me. Had heard a long time back from elders in my family about mustaudah imams.

think
Posts: 1834
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#6

Unread post by think » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:24 am

Just remembereed. the two types of imams were mustadrirq and mustaudah imams. Do shed some light on this, if possible.

Bohra spring
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#7

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:42 am

I am left speechless ...this is the strangest theory to explain the Bohra ideology I have ever heard. Can I ask who centuries ago recorded this explanation , how was this knowledge passed , who came up with this for the first time ?

Does any other madhab other than Ismailis believe in this type of thinking ?

This is a first time I have heard that there is another source of Devine guide other than the universal Quran that a billion people believe in.

How does one validate if this story is based on facts ?

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#8

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:22 pm

Sr.Nafisa,

How is the information you provide above shared ? I mean, is it verbally transferred or quoted from some authentic texts?

How can one validate this information?

Deerseye
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:30 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#9

Unread post by Deerseye » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:32 pm

Nafisa bhen please explain to me, surahe kahf Ayat no 2 says (I refer to translation and commentary by Abdullah Yusufali) He had made it straight and clear in order that he may warn the godless of a terrible punishment. Mr yusuf Ali goes on to explain that Qayyim: straight ,that which has no bends and no corners to mystify people, that which speaks clearly and unambiguously, that which guides to the right path.
In context of the QURAN I fail to relate to Ismaili mysticism.and hidden knowledge when Allah says he has made all things clear???

seeker110
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#10

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:15 pm

It will solve all my worldly problems. This info is so valuable. How did I survive before, is a mystery to me. Just like modern day renewable energy.

true_bohra
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:19 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#11

Unread post by true_bohra » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:21 pm

Bohra spring wrote:I am left speechless ...this is the strangest theory to explain the Bohra ideology I have ever heard. Can I ask who centuries ago recorded this explanation , how was this knowledge passed , who came up with this for the first time ?

Does any other madhab other than Ismailis believe in this type of thinking ?

This is a first time I have heard that there is another source of Devine guide other than the universal Quran that a billion people believe in.

How does one validate if this story is based on facts ?
Yes what she has shared is true...

Every Devine person has the tendency to capture this knowledge and this is the way the knowledge has been passing.

Well every madhab is spun in the same manner but their outlooks have changed due to traditions of land.

Well divinity is always present on earth. Today it is present in form of Imam az Zaman (as) who in his period of occultation transfers the Faiz to his Dai. Same way it was Imam mustaqar and Imam mustavda in the lineage of Prophet Abraham

The validation of this is particularly found in Syedna's bayaans. I remember hearing most of this from Syedna Mohammed burhanuddin RA bayaans and particularly his zikra waaz

DisillusionedDB
Posts: 379
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#12

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:15 am

Go through this article too "Qur'an and Isma'ili ta'wil"
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/120/64/Q ... e_comment/

Deerseye
Posts: 89
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#13

Unread post by Deerseye » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:35 am

Bro Disillusioned DB, thanks a lot, that link was really helpful.where can I get to read more papers by Mr. Engineer,he explains things very simply.thanks again.

bohrikaka
Posts: 80
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#14

Unread post by bohrikaka » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:04 am

"Each “Day” of Creation is a Cycle of one of the six major Prophetic Messengers (nātiqs): Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muḥammad. A Cycle lasts for several hundred years (ranging between five hundred and fifteen hundred years) during which the Prophet’s community is guided by his Summons, Scripture and religious Law (sharī’ah): " ----- Does this mean that we are at the end of the Cycle of Muhammed SAWS and perhaps there are only 65 years left ?

DisillusionedDB
Posts: 379
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#15

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:03 am

Deerseye wrote:Bro Disillusioned DB, thanks a lot, that link was really helpful.where can I get to read more papers by Mr. Engineer,he explains things very simply.thanks again.
Here's the link to all articles:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/islamic_perspective/


Ozdundee
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#17

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:41 am

This story or theory is very worrying. What is the objective of this ideology. These imams and their justification, is attempting to become superior or equal to the Prophet. It challenges the direct purpose of Allah's message and the Prophets SAW life work to remove mysticism, complex pagan beliefs and make islam a simple religion to worship one Allah who does not need these convoluted complex maze of rituals.

It goes completely counter to what Islam is or purpose. Someone has really messed up our faith by innovation and modification to justify segregation and sustain their grip of power on the followers. Some group of very deviant men have created a whole ideology out of their distorted imagination and hallucination .

This is a a real worry and mess. If we are having Jamea pouring such brainwashed talebats into the society this is really a worry . Is this not more reason to wonder why we were kicked out of Egypt ,Yemen and fell foul of the Moguls.

Islam may have conquered lands an India but the remnant pagan beliefs have infused into the faith. By staying isolated and practising taqiyah these impurities have survived.

I wonder by sharing such corrupt ideology we are obstructing the propagation of the pure Islam or not, if people reading this absorb such dangerous thoughts we are damaging their faith in Allah.

Nafisa
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#18

Unread post by Nafisa » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:12 am

Dear Admin
In the beginning I have requested you to keep this topic clean from the Bakwaas comments of the Wahabis, but you did not care. This is a discouraging attitude.

Bohra spring
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#19

Unread post by Bohra spring » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:24 am

Nafisa , if you want credibility of providing scholarly commentary provide references and allow your theory to be tested for authenticity.

You have not provided evidence whether this is credible theory by providing the source and year it was developed

Brandishing criticism as Wahabi , I hope you know what is the difference between Shia, Sunni , Salafi and Wahabi, many of us are neither , however does not change the fact that this theory is weak and a fairy tale that gets propagated within the cult to ensure its survival.

By exposing it on a public forum you have done more disservice to your faith that we may have by criticising it and hence it is only through taqiya that it survived for so long. Best it kept away ,

When you enter to battle intellectually there is no discrimination therefore no special treatment based on gender.

Such crazy theories like the idols destroyed by the prophet saw must be removed. This is mandatory act of Ramadan which is to purify ones faith , don't be upset we are all trying to be better Muslims

Aymelek
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#20

Unread post by Aymelek » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:29 am

Sister Nafisa,

Next time you post something from some website, please do ensure to give them credit by referring to the site as your source.

http://ismailignosis.com/2012/07/09/fro ... -imamat-2/

Please do not give misleading titles that this information is from Jamea Graduates. This is a complete Nizari Ismaili Philosophy which you have copied verbatim from the website. I dont know the motive.

Just to make clear, Nizari Ismaili philosophy and Mustali Ismaili philosophy although related but there are now many distinctive difference, as the Nizari philosophy have evolved over time since their Imam is Haazir.

qutub_mamajiwala
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Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#21

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:53 am

hello everybody
plz everybody should encourage sis nafisa
instead everybody is bent on discouraging her
she is doing a great service to all of us who did not go to jamea, to inform us what is being taught there in last halkas.
nizari and bohra philosophy are almost to some extent same as to which bohra still believe in zahiri rituals.
and to rest everybody who want to criticize it---if ur a bohra--the basic belief of bohra is that there is always hidden
meaning of everything. there is also hidden and batin meaning of each and every ayah of quran.
sis nafisa is only telling us what is taught in haqaiq sabaq.
those who have not attented it do not know anything of it and accuse it what is the source and this is deviant ideology and hence forth.
they are themselves oblivious to the fact that these same things are taught in jamea in upper halkas.
and this is already in the book of ismaaili.
the main books are by Qadi noman--tawil al daim like daimul islam
by various other scholars from the period of fatimi imam.
sayedna hatims kitaab tambiul gaafeleen.
and many such bohra and ismaaili kitaabs.
so plz restrain urself from ciritcizing .
sis nafisa is only telling what is in the book and what our actually beleifs are.
to believe this or not--is totally at our discredition.
hope everybody understands and to admin plz dont allow any comments in similar nature.
who dont want to beleive or read are allowed to skip this topic and thread altoghether.
i myelf also have some doubt about this issues. but would like to read what is in the book and what is acutallly
taught in jamea.

DisillusionedDB
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:20 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#22

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:33 am

Aymelek wrote:Sister Nafisa,

Next time you post something from some website, please do ensure to give them credit by referring to the site as your source.

http://ismailignosis.com/2012/07/09/fro ... -imamat-2/

Please do not give misleading titles that this information is from Jamea Graduates. This is a complete Nizari Ismaili Philosophy which you have copied verbatim from the website. I dont know the motive.

Just to make clear, Nizari Ismaili philosophy and Mustali Ismaili philosophy although related but there are now many distinctive difference, as the Nizari philosophy have evolved over time since their Imam is Haazir.
Then this creates a cloud of doubt whether Nafisaben is really a Jamea graduate. If she was really a Jamea graduate, she wouldn't have / need to plagiarize the entire article from an Aga Khani website. Instead, she could have given us the true knowledge that our Jamea preaches.

Deerseye
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:30 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#23

Unread post by Deerseye » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:16 am

First of all Nafisa bhen ,why do you use the word Wahhabi like a dirty word, and I must say ,that if you had started teaching people TAWIL, don't you think you should have the patience to answer our genuine questions? After going through your whole matter and other references I feel that IF the ayats of the QURAN have hidden meanings, then Allah intended it to be so.besides the Quran is so huge and with so many Ayats,better we get to know the pure and clear meanings, read the ayats, understand them, imbibe them and live out in our daily lives. I think if I can manage this in my lifetime I will be grateful to the Almighty.

salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#24

Unread post by salaar » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:17 am

I was shocked to see how anybody could lie bluntly like this after aymelek exposed that nafisa has copy pasted the article from Ismaili website and trying to take its credit. Well the only comment that fits in this situation is SHAME upon you for this cheating.

Nafisa
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#25

Unread post by Nafisa » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:14 pm

Amazing!
All Haqaiq Literature is written by our Yemeni Duaat which Nizaris presenting today. Who give them permission to publish our Yemeni Duaat's books and discuss Haqiq as a Nizari creed?
Their Imam's Khazana was burnt by Halaku Khan in Alamaut and for last 100 years they are purchasing our manuscripts from our Ulama. They paid them for translations as Nizaris are not as competent as we have. Then they publish it with their names.

What we forwarded on the message board is our book's translation, What is the cheating?
Nizaris are using our books and discussing it as a Ismaili Nizari work? Who is committing fraud?
We have a Right on our literature fully, which is reserved for Ismaili Mustaalavis.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#26

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:19 pm

I know everything about Zahir and Batin. For Zakhir , it is going to be light outside in the morning, for Batin, it is going to be dark at night.

Nafisa
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#27

Unread post by Nafisa » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:24 pm

Pillas of Abu Sufiyan and Hindh don't know anything about the Zahir and Batin because they are fuel of Jahannam only.
It is the wrong policy of Admin that Salafi Wahabis are busy on DBP website to spoil the Aqaid of Dawoodi Bohras and trying to convert them as Wahabis. Lanat on the enemies of Ahl al Bait.
Our Dawat books are our property. If someone translate its text its not mean that he is a proprietor of that book. Current Nizari Dawat is using Mustalavi Books to prove Ismaili creed in modern world.

Saeed al Khair
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#28

Unread post by Saeed al Khair » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:51 pm

Dr. Hamdani is a well known learned scholar. He belong to the Dawoodi Bohras, but not from the followers of 47th Dai Najmuddin to the current Dai Mufaddal.

THE DOCTRINE OF IMAMAT

By Abbas Hamdani

The central doctrine of the Ismaili community has always been the doctrine of Imamat because around it are built all the goals of the community and the roles of the dais [missionaries], but this doctrine is also not rigid, it has been evolving, particularly in the writings and preachings of the dais. When we admit change in the concept of Imamat it does not mean that our central institution is changeable; it only means that our way of looking at it changes from time to time. If we think about the Universe, it does not mean that before our thought the Universe did not exist and then began to exist only as we thought about it. The objects of concepts are constant, but the concepts themselves change. The Imamat for us is constant, but our way of looking at it has been subject to a historical evolution.

Having made these introductory remarks, I would like to describe the evolution of our concept of Imamat. At the time when our Dawa (propagation) really began, that is the time of the Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, we had already inherited certain concepts from Shiite history.

Concept of Imam Mansus

The first of these was the concept of Imam Mansus, that is the Imam on whom nass (designation) has been made. He is a leader by virtue of the fact that a designation has been made on him by a previous Imam, going back to the first Imam, Mawlana Ali ibn Talib (peace be upon him), who in turn received his designation from the Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) himself at Ghadir al-Khumm. The nass can only be made in the family of the Prophet and Hazrat Ali, that is in the progeny of Fatima, daughter of the Prophet and wife of Ali. This also involves our concept of the Ahl al-bayt (the household of the Prophet). Ahl al-bayt is the holy family, and Imamat through nass becomes sacred.

Imam as Redeemer and the Mahdi

Next, after the Battle of Karbala, a new concept was introduced, that of the Imam Redeemer. Imam Husayn, to us, accepted martyrdom because he believed that through his struggle, his community would be redeemed from tyranny and oppression.

After this came a third concept of Imam as the Mahdi. When a Shiite leader Mukhtar was fighting against the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik, he declared that his Imam, Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya (a son of Hazrat Ali but not of Fatima) who had died, would return and when he returned he would be Mahdi who will “fill the world with equity and justice as it is filled today with tyranny and oppression.”

Although we do not believe in the Imamat of Muhammad b. al-Hanafiyya, we accepted the concept of the Mahdi and applied it to our Imams. Particularly later in the Dawr al-satr (the period of concealed Imams) it was a doctrine that kept the Ismaili hopes alive for the final establishment of the Fatimid Caliphate beginning with Mawlana Imam Mahdi in 297 H./909 AC.

Cyclical Stages of Divine Creation and Divine Guidance, and the Divine Light

During the times of Imams Muhammad al-Baqir and Jafar al-Sadiq, the Ismaili dais, having inherited the Perso-Indian philosophic concept of Divine Light and the Greek neo-platonic world view of the evolution of the world through several stages of divine creation, built an ideology in which Imamat has a special place.

Let me describe very briefly this ideology.

We begin with God, who is called the Mubda that is the Creator, the Initiator of the Universe. He sets into motion the First Intelligence and then the Universal Soul. From them develop the nine other Intelligences identified with heavenly bodies and planets. The Tenth Intelligence is followed by the creation of the Earth, which itself evolves from its mineral existence to the plant, then the animal and finally to the human existence. With the appearance of the first human being who is Adam begins a chain of Prophets and their ages (cycles).

A human being becomes a Prophet in several stages. The first stage is called the Khayal (vision) which connotes an extraordinary sense perception. Higher than that is Fath (Opening) which is knowledge in communication with a higher being. Above that is Jadd, a prophetic knowledge beyond senses. This leads to Wahy (revelation) or marifa (gnosis) making its possessor a Natiq (Prophet - the Lawgiver).

Ismailism then identified the six messengers of the Qur’an, namely Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad as the six Natiqs, each having a revealed law (Kitab). The seventh Natiq would come on the Day of Judgement; so Muhammad is the last Prophet of our age.

Ismaili ideology then followed this process into Imamat. Every cycle of Prophet had a Wasi (inheritor). Moses had Aaron; so Muhammad had Ali. Here is also involved the concept of nass (designation). The Wasi Ali of Prophet Muhammad initiates a line of Imams, for every age must have an Imam, the Sahib az-zaman. He is Samit, not Natiq, that is he does not give a new Sharia (revealed law) but interprets it. He is the supreme interpreter in his time, and the community can only understand the Sharia (law) through his guidance (firmans).

Here came in the doctrine of zahir and batin. The Prophetic law is exoteric (zahir). But it is necessary to get to its meaning and motivation (batin) by a process of tawil (esoteric interpretation). On behalf of the Imam, the Ismaili dais did tawil and through it developed our ideology (Haqaiq – Truths – Philosophy).

But in all the work of the dais, the final interpreter and arbiter of law and doctrine remains the Imam. He ensures the continuity and progress in our thought, life, law and history. It is his greatest role for mankind, that is to keep the Sharia abreast of social change. The Imam is the symbol of change and development.

Going back to the theory of Divine Light (nur llahi) the Ismailis believed that it passed from God (Mubdi) through the Intelligences and Universal evolution to the human beings who became Prophets and Imams, coming right down to the Imam of the time (Imam al-Zaman) who by virtue of this Divine Light becomes Imam Masum, the Infallible Imam.

Finally starts the journey of a human being back to his Creator by the spiritual guidance (tayid) of the Imam. As our life has a beginning (Mabda) in God, it also has its end in God (Maad). This is the substance of the Ismaili theory of Mabda wal-Maad. Reward and punishment to us are in proportion to spiritual guidance we have received.

This ideology which began to be formulated during the time of Imams Muhammad al-Baqir and Jafar al-Sadiq and through the period of satr (concealed Imams) and zuhur (Fatimid Caliphate) reached its climax in the time of the Fatimid Caliph Mawlana Imam al-Hakim bi Amr Allah and was embodied in the works of our dai Kirmani at the beginning of the fifth century Hijra. The most beautiful feature of this ideology is the dynamic, changing, evolutionary, progressive view of life and history and of the existence of Universe, Imam, human being and our destiny.

Date posted: Monday, July 7, 2014.

________________

CORRESPONDING REFERENCES FOR THE FOUR READINGS

Reading 1: Please click In a Dynamic and Stirring Address to Members of the Canadian Parliament, His Highness the Aga Khan Shares His Faith Perspectives on the Imamat, Collaboration with Canada, the Muslim World Community (the Ummah), the Nurturing of Civil Society, Early Childhood Education, Voluntary Work, and the Unity of the Human Race

Reading 2: Please see “The Imamat in Ismailism” and “What is Shia Islam?” by Dr. Azim Nanji at Lifelong Learning Articles at the Institute of Ismaili Studies

Reading 3: Please click The Preamble Of “The Constitution of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims”

Reading 4: Complete text of Abbas Hamdani’s article at Literary Reading: Doctrine of Imamat During the Fatimid Period

________________

Moiz_Dhaanu
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#29

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:34 pm

Nafisa wrote:I am starting Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq .. 

Various Ismā‘īlī texts document an entire lineage of pre-Adamic Imāms – the Imāms who lived on earth before the Prophet Adam of the Bible and Qur’an.  Several of these pre-Adamic Imāms include figures from Indian and Vedic traditions such as Shri Rāma and Shri Krishna – whom the Ismā‘īlī traditions, particular those of South Asia, considered to be the Imāms of the ancient periods.  These lists are found in Aala Kutub al Haqaiq..
 

Most of the things said in above article seems "OK" upto a point.....but Shri Krishna being imam (utter nonsense) is beyond reasoning. He was in the lineage of Noah from the Son (who did not board the Ark) ..he went against Nabi Noah's wishes. Also if anybody has read the history of his personality in Hindu scriptures , one would realise that he had no Ethics nor principles 
1)he used to take away women's clothes and hide it when they were bathing in the lake , 
2)used to spy on bathing women , 
3)used to steal curd/milk from peoples homes , 
4)Was a big Story Teller(yahan ki baat wahaan and wahaan ki baat Yahaan .. as shown in mahabharat) ..expert in Gibbat(gossiping) 
5)Was expert at convincing people in believing that as long as a lie is told or you trick someone to help the Good people, its OK .... this is also mentioned in Gita. 
 (None of our Awliyaullah... name any Nabi, Imam or Duat who has told a lie to save himself or to save their followers) 

All these are just things which shout out loud that he was not an imam , but just an impostor who happened to be having a lot of influence on society (Like Shz MS) 

Hence my conclusion is that one should read the above article with a pinch of salt. Not everything said here should be accepted without any deep thought. 

Habeel
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Aala Haqaiq Asbaaq by a Team of Jamea Graduates

#30

Unread post by Habeel » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:57 pm

Hamdani family has shared and donated precious dawat books to Ismaili Institute of Research. You will be amazed how easily these books of haqaiq available so easily in libraries especially in USA and Europe.

http://www.iis.ac.uk/view_sorted_articl ... nding&l=en

go through the list, you will find "Kitab E Aalim WA Ghulam" by Syedma Jafer bin Mansur ul Yaman, The Uyyun akbar volumes, sermons of Fatemid Imams, Moayyad shirazi poem collection and list goes on..